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 Clang wrote:
So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

No. Do not buy. He's too big to use as a proxy for anything

You could proxy him as a particularly fleshy Dread. :p

 TedNugent wrote:

 Clang wrote:
So, we should all buy the new Ghaz model but then play him as counts-as not-Ghaz with the new stratagem?

No. Do not buy. He's too big to use as a proxy for anything

eh i mena as a primary modeler/painter secondary game player even if he is not great I forsee getting him and getting 12-20 hours of enjoyment building and painting him and getting him just right.

as for proxy though he could proxy it seems as a dred

I'd think more a Gorkanaught proxy really,

More like a helbrute.
But what's actually forcing you to buy Ghaz now in hopes of his rules getting fixed rather than wait till he gets his rules fixed first and than buy?..

 Galas wrote:
Many weaker things have became better.

By all means, please do provide a list.

Until The Greater Good you could not put a Bullgryn in your Tempestus Scion detachment without losing your doctrines. They fixed it. I don't know why the feth they waited that long instead of doing a small FAQ but whatever. The point is: They change and fix things much faster than before

Why wouldn't I just buy Ghaz 3 years from now when they've fixed him as fast as the did those Bullgryns?

If Orks sales do well, they are more likely to do more Ork releases in general.

The only way boycotting works is if they know *why* you're boycotting the model. So, I would suggest if you go that route, at least send them feedback you aren't interested in the model specifically because of rules, and would buy it instantly if it were remotely competitive.

Just buy models that are useful instead. Buy armfulls of buggies. They will get the message and correct his rules. Then buy.

In fact, the same thing happened with buggies. Sales were not up to scratch, they fixed it in chap approved and people bought enough for squadrons. I see your point but I'd rather they see interest in Orks bread and butter. We have plenty of reasons to buy new kits, for example Ork flyers, Loota boxes, Deff Dreada, Gorka/Morkanauta, FW bikerboss, Defkilla Wartrike, etc.

Plus I do not want to encourage them to package Space wolves in my boxes.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Many weaker things have became better.

By all means, please do provide a list.

The entirety of the grey knights codex, all the Tau options that nobody was taking? (Literally all the not-relics for units are for the weaker options like railgun broadsides and hammerheads, or ion cannon riptides, etc...) Tyranid Warriors? Thats from the top of my head.

Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Birdsongs list....
My back hurts just at reading that list....

Not all the Tau options. *looks at Kroot*.

Think boycotting the model is dumb, personally. Its a beautiful model and deserves it's purchase. Rules are secondary.

That said, might accidentally be boycotting it because I cant find anyone to split the box with. The SW side is hilariously bad and not worth it. FML

 flandarz wrote:
Not all the Tau options. *looks at Kroot*.

Half the Greater Good stratagems are for Kroot units so at least GW realizes what units need the more help. And on the great scheme of things Kroots aren't bad. They are so cheap that then always are a good inversion, even Krootox riders. The problem with Kroots is that in the most competitive tau builds they don't have a place.

Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Hes leaked baby.

Looking like 120 points for this bad boy. Legitimately seems good to me, but I don't play SW.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/fko4gp/leaked_ragnar_blackmane_rules/

He's AP4 (with a chainsword lol) and D2 S7 per Valrak.

Also has good auras for CC synergy and will likely be fun to play with a few diff army builds. Primaris keyword limits his transports though.

yup, sounds about right.
Be surprised if any wolf player doesnt use him. Got all these new shiny rules and statboosts and yet for some reason went DOWN in points, while ghaz got more of a side-grade that would have been pretty good (not amazing but good) if he remained 235pts or got slightly cheaper but instead went UP!
Typical GW. Just typical.... its boyz all over again!

 koooaei wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Though the idea of dreads getting first turn charge is rather wonderful. Just have a wartrike wandering behind a unit of piston equiped evil suns dreads and thats a minimum 12 inch move/advance with rerolls on the advance.

Iirc dreads become separate units after getting deployed

Yes but this strat is used before deployment most likely. You are upgrading the unit for having a mek workshop.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yup, sounds about right.
Be surprised if any wolf player doesnt use him. Got all these new shiny rules and statboosts and yet for some reason went DOWN in points, while ghaz got more of a side-grade that would have been pretty good (not amazing but good) if he remained 235pts or got slightly cheaper but instead went UP!
Typical GW. Just typical.... its boyz all over again!

My SW buddy is not a fan actually. Think it's because he's walking.

Think it really depends on if they get some melee centric primaris for his POV.

Yeah i mentioned that to my SW friend when i showed him those rules.
Primaris keyword makes a mobility issue, but he's absolutely disgusting for that cost otherwise. That is literally his only downside, and its not like SW dont have access to primaris transports (they just generally dont want them)
Primaris still dont have a proper melee unit...oddly enough...to go with him

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah i mentioned that to my SW friend when i showed him those rules.
Primaris keyword makes a mobility issue, but he's absolutely disgusting for that cost otherwise. That is literally his only downside, and its not like SW dont have access to primaris transports (they just generally dont want them)
Primaris still dont have a proper melee unit...oddly enough...to go with him

Yup. I would say Ragnar is *very close* to being amazing, which might just be a release of new Primaris models that wanna punch stuff (which is probably coming sometime).

Compare to this Thraka, who is miles upon miles away from being good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sigh.

Why is GW so bad at xenos?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/18/space-wolves-new-rules-for-a-new-sagagw-homepage-post-3/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40K&utm_content=40kwolves180320&fbclid=IwAR1qElyKaDM0GIKtND5OqZJ18pIDdArw3OeOlt2KE4jOrQP7jh_EDBc5ac8

pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Imagine smacking a fight twice strat on top of that...

I don't know if they have that though.

Ragnar is like the ultimate counter charge if he walks alone. If he’s in a répulsor, then he will be able to charge turn 2. Seems really good, perhaps not broken good though because of the total investment

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

I took a quick look. So, they get the Goff Kultur, but better. Then, for 1 CP can make it even MORE better. Then a 0CP Stratagem to gain 1 CP everytime you kill a character? I guess it's safe to say that Orkz got the short end of the stick in this release. Even our "make a Warboss into Ghaz" stratagem pales in comparison.

bulsterousdingo wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

considering they dont mention it doesnt stack, and theyre not affected by stuff such as the "ignore a wound" faq, i would wager yes a roll of a 6 causes 2 hits if that strat is active.
Such bullcrap.

And this is a surprise How? Of Course the Marines Got better than Us, We're just Filthy Xenos

What we would do for a strat that on a 4+ more hits get generated.

Our warboss would become unstoppable.