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I wouldn't exactly say that they have a better Goff kultur than we do, keep in mind the assault doctrine doesn't take place until T3, which means they don't likely have fresh units that are able to fully take advantage of those exploding hits, or they've basically ceded board control if they've been holding some of those units in Deep Strike. If the 1CP for the 4+ procs for exploding hits was for a unit, I would agree that's broken as feth, but it's only for characters so I'd give that to them. I have to say it is pretty ridiculous that SW got the first legit 0CP stratagem, and it's not even tied to characters getting the final blow, so that's kinda dumb IMO.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Yeah it's really an odd hole they put themselves in. Lore wise, kind of makes sense Ragnar went with the new sneak marines. But box wise, I dont know if anyone actually wants them. No upgrade sprue for the legion either sadly. The tooth and claw box did both primaris and SW beautiful justice, where you got an amazing mix of different things. Here it's just... here's two kits... save $5-10 USD. Congrats. Ork side however you're basically paying for just the meganobz and half the nobs and getting everything else for free. Splitting the box down the middle is amazing for them. Asked a few friends, attempting to split the box to where the discount is even for both of us (me paying more), and even still... not a single person wants Ragnar enough despite how awesome he is. I'm sure some people like the new marines, just no one around here.

btw conspiricy moment. Anyone else think they're trying to get rid of their older kits asap? The rumor engine looks like parts of nobz or meganobz, as far as I can tell.

 flandarz wrote:
Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Then that's a cheap Thrakka+MANz on ebay for me. I win either way

Vineheart01 wrote:pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

bulsterousdingo wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pretty much that entire article had me going "are you serious..."

Exploding 4s for 1cp. Wat. So Ragnar suddenly gets 15-16 attacks on average. Even T8 crap will be hurting after that.

Am i wrong in reading it as they would get both the exploding on 4+ and the exploding on 6+ in assult doctorine since they are seperate rules?

The article implies it does stack ("when combined with savage fury"). Some quick and dirty excel math hammer gets Ragnar at an average 17.5 hits (mean 17.49, median and mode both 17), with about a 12% chance of scoring 20 or more hits, for 1cp.

**edit** Nice low power rating for Ragnar too, if you want to chop a knight in half with seeking a saga. Ghaz's 4 wound limit will definitely be the only defence in the rematch lol

 Jidmah wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
Let's be real: the box set Ghaz is a part of is gonna sell well. Even if no Ork players buy it, we're outnumbered heavily by Marine players and they're definitely gonna pick it up.

Then that's a cheap Thrakka+MANz on ebay for me. I win either way

I doubt it would be cheap. From everything Ive seen secondhand most people even when picking something up from a box set, will list the retail price of each unit and then offer a discount from there. I've seen so many people list AOBR kopters as being retail 35.00 a pop, and I'm like come on...those things are maybe 10.

AOBR is out of print though. I have bought 15 koptas for 3-5€ a piece back in 5th.
You can also get the DI death guard really cheap right now, it's just the marines that are expensive. Even the buggies from speed freeks were cheaper than they are from GW now.

yeah back when aobr was in stock i got like 15 koptas for....2-4 bucks each?
Theyre not in print now so i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them hyked up.
(especially since the one that IS in stock is fugly as gak)

Eh, I bought the ork half of AOBR in August for 40.00 so, anytime I see it more than that, I'm critical.

Keramory wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah in a weird twist of events the marine half of a duo box is pretty crap.
Willing to bet Ragnar is a proper beast though. The few rumors we got for him already sound typical bullcrap marine strong for cheap (10 attacks at PL6? really? even if he's just S5 theres no way that weapon is less than AP2 2D knowing marines so he'll sweep elites very well)
Space wolves are sorta rare though, ive only met 2 of them ever and 1 had to sell his army for bills reasons (sadface). The other said exactly this "Yeah im gonna back out on going halfsies, this is insanely expensive for a clearly better-for-ork bang for your buck" - note that he actually does not want the incessors or whatever the regular marines were, just ragnar.

Meaning i got a few marines to start my slamander army with i guess lol (i can easily kitbash the wolf out of Ragnar to make an awesome-posed captain instead)

Yeah it's really an odd hole they put themselves in. Lore wise, kind of makes sense Ragnar went with the new sneak marines. But box wise, I dont know if anyone actually wants them. No upgrade sprue for the legion either sadly. The tooth and claw box did both primaris and SW beautiful justice, where you got an amazing mix of different things. Here it's just... here's two kits... save $5-10 USD. Congrats. Ork side however you're basically paying for just the meganobz and half the nobs and getting everything else for free. Splitting the box down the middle is amazing for them. Asked a few friends, attempting to split the box to where the discount is even for both of us (me paying more), and even still... not a single person wants Ragnar enough despite how awesome he is. I'm sure some people like the new marines, just no one around here.

btw conspiricy moment. Anyone else think they're trying to get rid of their older kits asap? The rumor engine looks like parts of nobz or meganobz, as far as I can tell.

I ended up just offering him Ragnar for 25 since i plan to do Salamanders eventually and technically dont need ragnar (would have to heavily kitbash him). Didnt even hesitate on taking that offer lol. I'd be more reluctant to buy the box mostly on my own if i didnt actually have a need for more nobz/manz lol. I always find myself wanting a full 10x MANz or 2x5 when i try to use them at all...and i have 7 lol (5 old metals and 2 plastics, third plastic is a bigmek)

The new rumor engine stuff is most likely a new mek (probably kff mek). That boot is a regular boy-sized foot it looks like and the spinning blade thing is way too small to be a bigchoppa. The KFF mek does have a choppa normally so most likely thats his melee weapon (the old official model had some weird gear-wrench thing). Alternatively it could be the rumored Tankbusta/Kommando box but i still think its a new bigmek.

I just wanna know at this point of PA will contain the datasheets we're missing for the Biker and KFF Mek.

It would just end any confusion.

Bikerboss definitely not since thats listed under Forgeworld (unless GW for some reason changes their mind on that).
KFF Mek i'd be rather livid if they didnt.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bikerboss definitely not since thats listed under Forgeworld (unless GW for some reason changes their mind on that).
KFF Mek i'd be rather livid if they didnt.

Has anyone sent an email about this?

Hasn’t been an issue for when I’ve played but I’d like to legally field whatever. If an option costs more, can’t do a certain stratagem, whatever.

Ragnar is somewhat problematic because he's primaris on foot which is a bad combo for a close combat character. Otherwise he is awesome.

Unlike Ghaz, who wishes he had only one large flaw, instead of...well...pretty much all of them that exist in 8th edition.

Eh. Ghaz really only has two big issues. 1) without advance+charge or an improved charge chance (such as with Ramming Speed) he's too difficult to deliver to what you want to kill, and 2) he doesn't have any options for dealing with chaff targets. Even with FoG and in his lowest Bracket, 9 attacks just isn't enough, even when you're rerolling 1s to hit. And his gun is a joke which will barely kill 2 or 3 Guardsmen. He needs a sweep on his Klaw, or a "move over Infantry models" rule.

Fix those two things and Ghaz works just fine.

He still costs as 3 warboss....

Yea Ghaz' has a few problems as I see it;
1. Speed/maneuverability - movement 7 and not benefitting from his own WAAAAAGGGHH! is only part of the problem. Being a monster massively restricts his board presence and speed.
2. Lack of damage - specifically lack of any chaff clearing ability but 5 attacks is hardly setting the world on fire and his gun is barely worth rolling (you'll normally be hitting on 6s as you'll advance I guess).
3. Not really that durable - the 4 wounds a phase ability does not convey anywhere near the protection of 'character', even if his wounds have increased. Certainly not with 12 wounds.
4. Expensive - 250-280pts is a lot for an Ork.
5. Pointless synergies - most of his buffs make units that kill really well kill even better. K. Why am I paying for this?

Now if he only had one of these issues, we could probably play him. As it stands though he's just a straight nerf to your own force. I'll still try and make him work but I can't see it, personally.

This is true, but he does have some good stuff and gives more than a single Warboss in regards to his buffs (and the one Makari gives while he's around). I'd personally price him closer to 250, even with a Waagh fix and a chaff option.

Edit: of course, the biggest problem is that the rerolls and FnP only apply to Goff units, and Goff is pretty subpar.

If ghaz was bigger they could give him knight rules... titanic feet, move over infantry, fall back and shoot/charge... but he’s not there yet

I can see him at best getting stick bomb flinga for an additional 2d6 str 3 ap- shooting... to clear chaff. He’s modeled with automatic stikkbomb thrower after all but it’s probably a chukka not flinga

That's literally worse than Mork's Roar, unless it auto hits it's worthless. Though, I guess it'd make sense for GW to give that to him.

I do agree he's too big to step over infantry. It's why I suggested he use a "bum rush" approach, where infantry don't hinder his movement and any infantry he moves through take 1d3 MWs. Chaff is far less of an issue when you can just bulldoze through them, and it'd be very thematic for Ghaz as well.

Just re-read our preview and the "Specialist Mobs" reads to me like a Vigilus style detachment where we pay a CP (or multiple?) to get access to the certain benefits of the Specialist Mob.

The example is as follows;

Specialist Mob - Pyromaniacs
Subkulture - Arsonists - free bonus to clan kulture?

That's how I read it anyway.

There might be particular relics and warlord traits connected to the specialist mob. I suspect one of the specialist mobs is "Grot Revolushunary Committee".

Hopefully the Specialist Mob is free/cheap/offers other benefits because I'm gonna be hella salty if we have to pay CP to get cool stuff while other factions get them for nothing.

quite frankly i was surprised they didnt give him a kicking attack. The model looks like it has freaking talon claws on it.

 flandarz wrote:
That's literally worse than Mork's Roar, unless it auto hits it's worthless. Though, I guess it'd make sense for GW to give that to him.

I do agree he's too big to step over infantry. It's why I suggested he use a "bum rush" approach, where infantry don't hinder his movement and any infantry he moves through take 1d3 MWs. Chaff is far less of an issue when you can just bulldoze through them, and it'd be very thematic for Ghaz as well.

I'd take the mechanic a step further, he can charge anything within 12" and ignore any models T4 and below in the way to do so.



My initial thoughts on this, Bloodaxe weird boy in outrider det with 3 base deffkoptas. Use one to ramming speed targets, follow in with Evil Sunz mobs, choose kopta to fight last out of your chargees so that you don't get any interupts.
That's 152 points to turn off over watch on key units and cancel interrupts for upto 3 turns.

on one hand im glad we got an anti-overwatch but im also mad its locked to a lack luster kulture.

Really freaking weird its only limited by visible to the caster.

Yeah I can see that getting FAQed, is there even another psychic power in the game that has unlimited range?

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah I can see that getting FAQed, is there even another psychic power in the game that has unlimited range?

There were several new Tyranid psychic powers that don't specify a range, including one worded like Clever Talk

Lurking Maws has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one enemy unit that is visible to this psyker. Until the end of the turn, when resolving an attack against that unit made by a model in a friendly JORMUNGANDR unit that was set up on the battlefield this turn, you can re-roll the hit roll. This psychic power cannot be manifested in the first battle round.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Just re-read our preview and the "Specialist Mobs" reads to me like a Vigilus style detachment where we pay a CP (or multiple?) to get access to the certain benefits of the Specialist Mob.

The example is as follows;

Specialist Mob - Pyromaniacs
Subkulture - Arsonists - free bonus to clan kulture?

That's how I read it anyway.

There might be particular relics and warlord traits connected to the specialist mob. I suspect one of the specialist mobs is "Grot Revolushunary Committee".

Hopefully the Specialist Mob is free/cheap/offers other benefits because I'm gonna be hella salty if we have to pay CP to get cool stuff while other factions get them for nothing.

Based on what other armies have been getting in psychic awakening, I imagine it's going to be a "make your own klan" thing, where you give up having a clan to get one or two of these specialist mob subkultures.

"Sometimes Orks throw off the constraints of their Clan and instead group together with other like-minded greenskins."

Come to think of it... Our 2 good strategems: one that forces you to not include ghaz and another one that forces you to remove a lovely plane off the board turn1.

At first I was like: hell yeah, I'm gona finally have a reason to buy this awesome burnabomber. But than I was like: ...And than put it away after it's first movement phase... I'd rather convert a cheap ww2 la2 plane.

As if gw is trying to tell us: "we don't need your pesky greenskin teef".

There are already a bunch of bommers on the web painted up like japanese WW2 planes

In all honesty though, you'd probably want to bring two or three anyways and just crash the one that survives/is in the best position.

If you're going second and find your opponent is not focusing the bommers, you might even hold up on crashing one until the first bombs are dropped.

I've run multiple bombers before and can tell that their peak effectiveness is t1. They're pretty unwieldy with this huge bases, 90 degrees pivots and the need to actually fly over their targets to drop a bomb.
So, I'd not hold my breath for good explosion position after the first turn.

Eh, I usually run them to bomb a hole into screens so my warbikers can tag valuable targets with their ~35" charge.

Also, forcing your opponent to both screen out deep strikers while leaving no holes for a plane to land and capturing objectives is quite a task.

The beauty of stratagems is that you don't have to use them - just the threat of being able to drop one of the planes at any times is already valuable all by itself. And it's not like having a dakkajet drop for d3 wounds is something an army can shrug off. Exploding tanks have swung around the game for me more than once.