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 Grotrebel wrote:
Oh btw for those that have problems to get TTS working, try vassal.
We used it back in the day, its poor graphic in bird perspective but worked like a charm on windows 98 / 2000.
Seems like it is still working.

Or if anything, I could slap together a guide explaining how to do most of the things in TTS (it means Tabletop Simulator, for those wondering), and where you can get the best tools.

I've played 40k on TTS for a better part of a year or 2 now, but of course, I don't know how Vassal works, so I can't say much about that :v

addnid wrote:
Ace on a scrapjet or a K boosta blasta. 4 CP well spent if you can tag a juicy target and prevent it from shooting, with that second charge. Or kill a key character. I think this sneaky move has potential

You all are severely overestimating that spiked ram

4+ isn't reliable at all, so when you try to assassinate something like a marine or eldar character with it, and you fail the roll, you'll have a buggy that is in no way equipped to handle a well-armored character, which in turn is going to trash you vehicle with a powerfist, witchblade or similar. Happens to me all the time.

In my opinion that stratagem is purely reactive - if you happen to charge something with either the spiked ram, ramming speed or one of the squiggoths and find yourself out of an enemy to fight, use the stratagem to charge something else. It's just too random and too expensive to plan around.

I think it works as a sneaky move that you get to use every once in a while. It's a specialist tool in the toolbox. I often chuck 4-5 spiked ram buggies on something with justa couple of wounds left that I don't want to be alive for the opponents turn. If one of those buggies get that kill and can sneak in a dirty little charge into a backline unit that the opponent hadn't expected and therefore shielded against? Then it's great, otherwise you don't need to be concerned about it

 Jidmah wrote:

addnid wrote:
Ace on a scrapjet or a K boosta blasta. 4 CP well spent if you can tag a juicy target and prevent it from shooting, with that second charge. Or kill a key character. I think this sneaky move has potential

You all are severely overestimating that spiked ram

4+ isn't reliable at all, so when you try to assassinate something like a marine or eldar character with it, and you fail the roll, you'll have a buggy that is in no way equipped to handle a well-armored character, which in turn is going to trash you vehicle with a powerfist, witchblade or similar. Happens to me all the time.

In my opinion that stratagem is purely reactive - if you happen to charge something with either the spiked ram, ramming speed or one of the squiggoths and find yourself out of an enemy to fight, use the stratagem to charge something else. It's just too random and too expensive to plan around.

Well yes, you just attempt, for 2 CP, to charge something, and then hope you succeed in that 4+ roll. If you fail it is fine, you have a 100 (scrapjet) or 80 point (KBoostaBlasta) buggy in contact with an enemy unit, which it will likely erase (because you were going for a unit with 3 wounds left, or less), so you get that killpoint =. So what if you buggy gets blown to bits the turn after ?

It is not a great use of CP unless you can get to a juicy target, and I think the deathskull scrapjet with korscrew K job is really the only one of our units which can reliably kill a moderatly tough target for charge number 2 (1d3 MW from ramming speed on a 2+ roll, 1d3 MW from spiked ram on a 4+ roll, 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls, then another round of 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls thanks to the korkscrew K job).

addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

addnid wrote:
Ace on a scrapjet or a K boosta blasta. 4 CP well spent if you can tag a juicy target and prevent it from shooting, with that second charge. Or kill a key character. I think this sneaky move has potential

You all are severely overestimating that spiked ram

4+ isn't reliable at all, so when you try to assassinate something like a marine or eldar character with it, and you fail the roll, you'll have a buggy that is in no way equipped to handle a well-armored character, which in turn is going to trash you vehicle with a powerfist, witchblade or similar. Happens to me all the time.

In my opinion that stratagem is purely reactive - if you happen to charge something with either the spiked ram, ramming speed or one of the squiggoths and find yourself out of an enemy to fight, use the stratagem to charge something else. It's just too random and too expensive to plan around.

Well yes, you just attempt, for 2 CP, to charge something, and then hope you succeed in that 4+ roll. If you fail it is fine, you have a 100 (scrapjet) or 80 point (KBoostaBlasta) buggy in contact with an enemy unit, which it will likely erase (because you were going for a unit with 3 wounds left, or less), so you get that killpoint =. So what if you buggy gets blown to bits the turn after ?

It is not a great use of CP unless you can get to a juicy target, and I think the deathskull scrapjet with korscrew K job is really the only one of our units which can reliably kill a moderatly tough target for charge number 2 (1d3 MW from ramming speed on a 2+ roll, 1d3 MW from spiked ram on a 4+ roll, 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls, then another round of 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls thanks to the korkscrew K job).

My experience is very similar to Jids in that characters you charge generally laugh if you fail your MWs because 4 big choppa(ish) attacks hitting on 4s is pretty weak. SM characters slap you to high heaven without going down. Even Eldar characters get their 4++ and can tank average wounds then either witch blade or Smite you away.

I really don’t think that stratagem is competitive.

addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

addnid wrote:
Ace on a scrapjet or a K boosta blasta. 4 CP well spent if you can tag a juicy target and prevent it from shooting, with that second charge. Or kill a key character. I think this sneaky move has potential

You all are severely overestimating that spiked ram

4+ isn't reliable at all, so when you try to assassinate something like a marine or eldar character with it, and you fail the roll, you'll have a buggy that is in no way equipped to handle a well-armored character, which in turn is going to trash you vehicle with a powerfist, witchblade or similar. Happens to me all the time.

In my opinion that stratagem is purely reactive - if you happen to charge something with either the spiked ram, ramming speed or one of the squiggoths and find yourself out of an enemy to fight, use the stratagem to charge something else. It's just too random and too expensive to plan around.

Well yes, you just attempt, for 2 CP, to charge something, and then hope you succeed in that 4+ roll. If you fail it is fine, you have a 100 (scrapjet) or 80 point (KBoostaBlasta) buggy in contact with an enemy unit, which it will likely erase (because you were going for a unit with 3 wounds left, or less), so you get that killpoint =. So what if you buggy gets blown to bits the turn after ?

It is not a great use of CP unless you can get to a juicy target, and I think the deathskull scrapjet with korscrew K job is really the only one of our units which can reliably kill a moderatly tough target for charge number 2 (1d3 MW from ramming speed on a 2+ roll, 1d3 MW from spiked ram on a 4+ roll, 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls, then another round of 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls thanks to the korkscrew K job).

You have all OVERLOOKED the Gargantuan Squiggoth!

On a 2+ that thing does D6 mortal wounds to Everything it successfully charged.

Now it can charge, Mortal Wound kill and then charge and Mortal Woulnd kill some backfield stuff, and then fight them ALL in CC again?

I truly adore my Gargantuan Squiggoth on the charge already but for just 2CP “Buckle up Dorothy, this is going to be a hell of a ride!”

addnid wrote:
Well yes, you just attempt, for 2 CP, to charge something, and then hope you succeed in that 4+ roll. If you fail it is fine, you have a 100 (scrapjet) or 80 point (KBoostaBlasta) buggy in contact with an enemy unit, which it will likely erase (because you were going for a unit with 3 wounds left, or less), so you get that killpoint =. So what if you buggy gets blown to bits the turn after ?

The yellow part is what's not working in my experience. The KBB has no close combat weapon, so it will more often than not deal 0 damage to a character with 2+/3+ armor. The Scrapjet is a little better, but will usually just score one unsaved wound, assuming no invulnerable saves. Buggies are crap in combat, the only reason to charge something is to lock it down or if you are desperate for wiping out a unit.
You can't just drive about throwing away your buggies as expendable if you want to win with them. At 24" your opponent has to move and use big guns to kill them. Within 12" of most armies(especially marines) you get the full array of grenades, rapid fire guns shooting twice, pistols, flamers and other odd low-range guns thrown at them, which would normally not be able to shoot or at least be a lot less efficient at doing so. Even if it survives all that, most support characters have some sort of melee weapon which does some damage against the T6/4+ profile of a buggy which is no threat to them in combat.
If you dive inside the enemy army, you are basically losing your buggy to damage potential which your opponent otherwise wouldn't be able to use, essentially giving them a free kill. When you stay at range, you either force them to commit valuable guns to them or you get another round of shooting.

It is not a great use of CP unless you can get to a juicy target, and I think the deathskull scrapjet with korscrew K job is really the only one of our units which can reliably kill a moderatly tough target for charge number 2 (1d3 MW from ramming speed on a 2+ roll, 1d3 MW from spiked ram on a 4+ roll, 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls, then another round of 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls thanks to the korkscrew K job).

That's barely enough damage to kill a primaris sergeant and will bounce right off anything with an iron halo, 2+ armor or a mark of chaos. Considering that the scrapjet is 100 and the sergeant about 70, I see the korkskrew job as a waste of CP.


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ThorNZ2020 wrote:
on a 4+ roll, 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls, then another round of 4 SM sergeant power fist attacks with deathskull rerolls thanks to the korkscrew K job).
You have all OVERLOOKED the Gargantuan Squiggoth!

On a 2+ that thing does D6 mortal wounds to Everything it successfully charged.

Now it can charge, Mortal Wound kill and then charge and Mortal Woulnd kill some backfield stuff, and then fight them ALL in CC again?

I truly adore my Gargantuan Squiggoth on the charge already but for just 2CP “Buckle up Dorothy, this is going to be a hell of a ride!”

I have not, I mentioned squiggoths multiple times

Keep in mind that Dorothy needs to kill everything she charged the first time around, since you can only use the stratagem if there is nothing left within 1".

Jidmah, those 2*4 attacks of powerfist with deathskull rerolls plus the MW is waaaay enough to kill any 6 wound character without a 3++

You should indeed not throw away units, but you can trade them efficiently (finishing off a squad and then killing an important support character can be a good trade for example).

But this is like the burna bommer Banzai, we will have to wait and see on the table top to really know.

This is not a close combat friendly edition but players with skill can still make it work on some match ups. It does require testing out a few things though, and against current SM lists it is often not a good idea, and as you say if you go near their support characters they will heroically intervene or just delete you in CC in their turn. 100 point for the scrapjet and 4 CPs is a lot indeed to finish of a squad and kill a support character, but sometimes it's worth it (a chapter master giving full rerolls, or the dark angel ravenwing lieutenant on land speeder with his "ignore movement penalties for heavy weapons" aura).

4*4+ is 2 hits. Re-roll one is 2.5 hits. Wounds most characters on 2+, so 2.09 wounds, re-roll a failed one to go to 2.44. Almost all 6 wound characters have 4++ saves, so 1.22 unsaved wounds.
Or, in other words, the most likely outcome is one unsaved wound.

When fighting twice, if you are lucky enough to get 3 unsaved wounds in, there is a good chance of killing that character. But the chance of that happening is less than 50% and therefore not a good decision to make on the tabletop. Also note that pretty much every army has a stratagem to make a character slightly harder to kill.

And there really isn't anything to "wait and see", scrapjets have been they way they are for quite some time now.
Keeping them out of fights is the best way to play them, because their shooting is great and their melee is weak and fighting twice doesn't chance that.
Krokscrew is very much like buying a wrecking ball for your gunwagon, a PK for your big mek or a killsaw for a pain boy. Don't spend resources on making a unit better at something it didn't do well to begin with.

Word of mouth on Fb is that GW is closing all the shop, starting today, is that true or another FB bs ?

I wouldn't surprised if they do. In most European countries, they aren't allowed to open anymore anyways.

It's from a GW email sent out, but yeah it's true (including their online store IIRC). Non-GW FLGS can still be open of course but shipping times are going to be increased etc..

so no PA ?


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they cant even send stuff out ?

Apparently GW completely closed down today. Anything that has been send out will arrive, but I guess it's purely based on luck whether you get Thrakka or a PA.

Digital PA will probably be available.

The "adepticon reveal" they were supposed to do online this weekend is also in serious limbo. There was supposed to be a twitch thing I think and that's most likely out but maybe they just put up an article on WHC.

GW stated that was supposed to be their biggest 40k reveal ever (YMMV how much that's worth) so maybe that's still on but in a more modest capacity? If (big if) there was a new Big Mek with KFF coming you'd think he was going to be revealed then as well.

It's all up in the air right now but it sucks that real life even bleeds into your escapism. Keep working on that pile of shame and stay indoors people

I was thinking maybe 9th edition?


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Is official:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/24/its-time-to-bunker-down/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=WHTV&utm_content=whtvlockdown24032020&fbclid=IwAR0O5LqmqY1mO5jwBAOLKDK5jGSMfjO4gAbjw_ipbexyL8UWpOl_1n-J9E4

The absolute biggest reason I wont use the charge again strat: dude, we are super cp hungry now. We are going to be burning like 6-7 cp on upgrades. That's my worry is these new character and vehicle boosts are gonna siphon way too much cp

Something I just stumbled upon: If I have a warbiker nob, I can replace the both the slugga and the choppa with a killsaw each for a total of 23 points?

 Jidmah wrote:
Something I just stumbled upon: If I have a warbiker nob, I can replace the both the slugga and the choppa with a killsaw each for a total of 23 points?

Yep.
I build 2 of my nob bikers with double saw and all my boy-nobs are equipped with 2 saws as well.
23 points for 5 attacks on a boy nob is quite effective and shreds through primaris and cents like nothing with -4 and fixed 2 damage.
Have mobbed up 30+10 boys back when i used to play them more often which gave me 12 saw attacks hitting on 3+ with a banner behind them.

Two ideas for post PA buggy armies, PA stuff in yellow:

Da smell of napalm in da morning


This one has 14-9=5 CP, with 2 of those reserved for first turn charges with warbikers. The goal is to blow a hole in your opponent's screen with possibly flying headbut and wildfire and then try to pull of first turn charges with the warbikers, warboss and wartrike on valuable targets, without getting the two bosses killed.
As usual, SSAG, naut, scrapjet and SJD take out hard targets with priority on anti-vehicle capabilities followed by mobility while the KBB and bommers either finish off injured hard targets or clear out infantry, also prioritizing anti-vehicle and then mobility.

Let's make sum noize!


More conservative list with 14-10=4 CP. The general idea is that warbikers keep your opponent busy for turn one and maybe two, while you shell with guard style. Warbboss and Trike most likely shouldn't be doing turn one charges, so no fancy tires for the boss. The two weird boyz (one freeboota) mess with enemy shooting, counter-charge units and objective grabbers/combo enablers.
As it has a lot more firepower, I don't feel like I need the KBB upgrade as much. Instead I get a second SJD and upgrade those, because the list lacks mobility otherwise.

Jid, I know you don´t play ITC, but do you ever play tournament?
I ask not to be arrogant or superior, I´m just curious to know how would you manage objective grabbing and board control with those lists.

Is so long since i played an army with less than 100 pieces in competitive scene that I really have problem to visualize it


EDIT: DON´T*

Hmm , not sure I like the idea of blowing all the CP before the game, what about Kustom Ammo for the SSAG? Most of my CP go for that and More Dakka on him.

 acme2468 wrote:
Hmm , not sure I like the idea of blowing all the CP before the game, what about Kustom Ammo for the SSAG? Most of my CP go for that and More Dakka on him.

Me too, which says a lot how boring has been the latest months.
In an ideal world, I don´t think we should need to invest more than 4CP per game on him. Because we should be able to spend the rest of the Cp on tricks and tools to adapt to the game and make it more flexible.
Which is why this new PA is great. IMHO.
Beside Ghaz, but eh...

Damn. I had ordered paint over the last few days to catch up on hobby. Hopefully they’ll try to do something about these orders.


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 Emicrania wrote:


Me too, which says a lot how boring has been the latest months.
In an ideal world, I don´t think we should need to invest more than 4CP per game on him. Because we should be able to spend the rest of the Cp on tricks and tools to adapt to the game and make it more flexible.
Which is why this new PA is great. IMHO.
Beside Ghaz, but eh...

Yeah, I think I agree here. I think Orks still live and die on CP -- having some in the back pocket for re-rolls, Kustom Ammo, More Dakka, Orks is never beaten (etc) is key in a lot of matchups.

I think triple bat will be able to be a bit more liberal about what you take, but if you go with Bat, bat, 1 CP detachment, you'll probably still wanna back pocket 8-10 CP in the bank for various stratagems... Sometimes even the *threat* of using a stratagem is enough to make your opponent more conservative. I've had many games where my opponent became more aggressive as soon as I dipped below 2 CP.

 Jidmah wrote:
4*4+ is 2 hits. Re-roll one is 2.5 hits. Wounds most characters on 2+, so 2.09 wounds, re-roll a failed one to go to 2.44. Almost all 6 wound characters have 4++ saves, so 1.22 unsaved wounds.
Or, in other words, the most likely outcome is one unsaved wound.

When fighting twice, if you are lucky enough to get 3 unsaved wounds in, there is a good chance of killing that character. But the chance of that happening is less than 50% and therefore not a good decision to make on the tabletop. Also note that pretty much every army has a stratagem to make a character slightly harder to kill.

And there really isn't anything to "wait and see", scrapjets have been they way they are for quite some time now.
Keeping them out of fights is the best way to play them, because their shooting is great and their melee is weak and fighting twice doesn't chance that.
Krokscrew is very much like buying a wrecking ball for your gunwagon, a PK for your big mek or a killsaw for a pain boy. Don't spend resources on making a unit better at something it didn't do well to begin with.

You’re not taking into account Deathskulls rerolls. Again. Ok let’s just agree to disagree hah hah. Just to be be curious what type of Scénario do you play in the tournaments you attend (in Germany right ?) ? ITC ? ETC ? Local tournament variation ? Just curious is all, not trying to be a dick here

addnid wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
4*4+ is 2 hits. Re-roll one is 2.5 hits. Wounds most characters on 2+, so 2.09 wounds, re-roll a failed one to go to 2.44. Almost all 6 wound characters have 4++ saves, so 1.22 unsaved wounds.
Or, in other words, the most likely outcome is one unsaved wound.

When fighting twice, if you are lucky enough to get 3 unsaved wounds in, there is a good chance of killing that character. But the chance of that happening is less than 50% and therefore not a good decision to make on the tabletop. Also note that pretty much every army has a stratagem to make a character slightly harder to kill.

And there really isn't anything to "wait and see", scrapjets have been they way they are for quite some time now.
Keeping them out of fights is the best way to play them, because their shooting is great and their melee is weak and fighting twice doesn't chance that.
Krokscrew is very much like buying a wrecking ball for your gunwagon, a PK for your big mek or a killsaw for a pain boy. Don't spend resources on making a unit better at something it didn't do well to begin with.

You’re not taking into account Deathskulls rerolls. Again. Ok let’s just agree to disagree hah hah

I bolded his math. He did take into account the rerolls.

2 unsaved wounds causing 1d3 damage each with, the deathskulls reroll, means you are getting 5 wounds through. So with the mortal wounds you deal upon the charge you can basically shred 90% of any support characters.

Again not saying it’s worth the cp, just saying that it works. But I will stop with this as I don’t want to be an ass, and if you disagree with me it’s totally fine

I think it's fair to say for 1 CP, doubling the melee output of the unit isn't bad, given it is doubling a unit with the rough equivalent of a power fist.

The main issue is that 1 CP could be spent elsewhere. Scrapjets don't really wanna be in CC, even with this upgrade. I'd rather flat 3 damage from their shooting then them getting stuck in CC. They are opportunistic chargers, they don't really seek it out, and this probably doesn't change that.

Given we just saw something like Jid's list where he went down to 4 useable CP (after first turn zoom up with the bikes), every CP you spend pregame is going to be *really* important. We have to be selective in what we upgrade.

I think I'll play test it for fun, but I think it's probably an okay stratagem and not top tier like some of the other stuff we got.

2 unsaved wounds causing 1d3 damage each with, the deathskulls reroll, means you are getting 5 wounds through. So with the mortal wounds you deal upon the charge you can basically shred 90% of any support characters.

Again not saying it’s worth the cp, just saying that it works. But I will stop with this as I don’t want to be an ass, and if you disagree with me it’s totally fine

Unless I'm missing something the Teleporting Gorkanaut can be 2+ BS

5+ Stock.
4+ Kustom Job +1 BS
3+ Kustom Job fancier gun
2+ Freebooterz was triggered. Do a Dread Waaagh! shoot again. (i mention this as I play Freebooterz a fair bit these days). It's 4 CP (or more, or 3 and the Mekboy shop)?