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popisdead wrote:
Unless I'm missing something the Teleporting Gorkanaut can be 2+ BS

5+ Stock.
4+ Kustom Job +1 BS
3+ Kustom Job fancier gun
2+ Freebooterz was triggered. Do a Dread Waaagh! shoot again. (i mention this as I play Freebooterz a fair bit these days). It's 4 CP (or more, or 3 and the Mekboy shop)?

You can't apply two Kustom Jobs to one unit.

 Emicrania wrote:
Jid, I know you don´t play ITC, but do you ever play tournament?
I ask not to be arrogant or superior, I´m just curious to know how would you manage objective grabbing and board control with those lists.

Is so long since i played an army with less than 100 pieces in competitive scene that I really have problem to visualize it

I usually play CA2019 missions (mostly EW) against players from our dadhammer group with vastly varying competitiveness. Some of them are playing in tournaments, and I tend to do quite well against those. While I doubt that it's comparable to actually playing at top tables at a GT, it's also not all casual. Against the casual players, I actually need to tone down this list, as it totally steamrolls them.

Currently, the entire buggy list is hinging on warbikers pulling off T1 charges and keeping my opponents in their deployment zones. Especially marine take them two turns to grind through them, in the meantime I take out anti-tank and mobility. If someone has an easy way to dispatch of them in combat, like the necron player with his wraiths, it's a lot more difficult.
Buggies, characters and the naut are what's holding midfield and shooting from a safe distance, and I feed them to the enemy one after another by charging them into I targets I don't want to shoot.
Gretchin run up the board and grab objectives, hiding out of sight when possible. I also quite often suicide a unit or two them to gain additional VP if necessary, for example by placing them right next to a unit that's holding an objective without objective secured.
By the end of turn 3, most of the army is usually dead. However, so is almost everything that can move fast that my opponent's brought and everything else is sitting in their deployment zone. For them it's then a race to catch up on the VP I already scored, while in most missions the gretchin in my half of the table keep scoring. It's basically about forcing decisions on them while taking away their options.
Not sure how well this translates to ITC.

So in regard of actually going to a tournament, the warbikers are a pretty inefficient unit that cannot be easily replaced as any infantry unit (boyz/storm boyz) suddenly provide great targets for anti-infantry guns which had none before and other fast units (koptas, KBB, trike, nob bikers) lack the speed or the footprint to tag as many units. Now, if trukkboyz were viable...
I guess you could wall in your opponent with burna bommers now, but that doesn't reduce enemy shooting as much.


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tulun wrote:
Damn. I had ordered paint over the last few days to catch up on hobby. Hopefully they’ll try to do something about these orders.


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 Emicrania wrote:


Me too, which says a lot how boring has been the latest months.
In an ideal world, I don´t think we should need to invest more than 4CP per game on him. Because we should be able to spend the rest of the Cp on tricks and tools to adapt to the game and make it more flexible.
Which is why this new PA is great. IMHO.
Beside Ghaz, but eh...

Yeah, I think I agree here. I think Orks still live and die on CP -- having some in the back pocket for re-rolls, Kustom Ammo, More Dakka, Orks is never beaten (etc) is key in a lot of matchups.

I think triple bat will be able to be a bit more liberal about what you take, but if you go with Bat, bat, 1 CP detachment, you'll probably still wanna back pocket 8-10 CP in the bank for various stratagems... Sometimes even the *threat* of using a stratagem is enough to make your opponent more conservative. I've had many games where my opponent became more aggressive as soon as I dipped below 2 CP.

Those lists were about toying around with ideas. I'm sure after running them a couple of times, some of those kustom jobs will turn out to not be worth it and no longer be taken.
Especially the last list could make room for 3 more units of gretchin and another SAG to just do both.

I do think that spending two CP on kustom jobs like +1BS, Zappzag and Big Boom is more valuable than shooting a SSAG twice. Those do more damage right of the bat, and have a decent chance to hang around for another turn and do their damage again. They are also more reliable than a SSAG which still has a 50% chance to do absolutely nothing.

Will the quarantine affect the FAQ?

addnid wrote:
2 unsaved wounds causing 1d3 damage each with, the deathskulls reroll, means you are getting 5 wounds through. So with the mortal wounds you deal upon the charge you can basically shred 90% of any support characters.

Again not saying it’s worth the cp, just saying that it works. But I will stop with this as I don’t want to be an ass, and if you disagree with me it’s totally fine

The thing is, those 5 damage are an average which has a pretty high chance of not happening. That's the big problem with 40k Mathhammer, the more dice are involved, the less likely the average is going to happen, as variance increases. This is the very reason why the average damage of a SSAG in no way matches its performance in games.

So let's say there is a 66% chance of the scrapjet dealing 5 or more damage to a character, that's still a 33% of it failing to do so, getting bogged down and losing the jet with nothing to show for.
As it's a lot of work to calculate the actual percentage, I won't be doing it right now, but from napkin math it's probably worse than that.






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 TedNugent wrote:
Will the quarantine affect the FAQ?

We are lucky if we are getting our pre-orders.

I don't think we'll be getting much of anything for a few months. The only 40k that's going to be happening for a while is you painting whatever models you already have.

 Jidmah wrote:

Those lists were about toying around with ideas. I'm sure after running them a couple of times, some of those kustom jobs will turn out to not be worth it and no longer be taken.
Especially the last list could make room for 3 more units of gretchin and another SAG to just do both.

I do think that spending two CP on kustom jobs like +1BS, Zappzag and Big Boom is more valuable than shooting a SSAG twice. Those do more damage right of the bat, and have a decent chance to hang around for another turn and do their damage again. They are also more reliable than a SSAG which still has a 50% chance to do absolutely nothing.

Oh no, for sure.

I think we'll find out a lot of this stuff is worth it, but we might just have to make some actual decisions on upgrades. It's a good problem, given Orks pretty much just been shoehorned into the same upgrades (looking at you Vigiulus + SSAG + relic klaw).

I'm pretty sure the optimal scenario though is to still have CP in your back pocket for the SSAG, though, even if both of those guns actually make Gunwagons worth fielding (what a world we live in where Gunwagons might not be actual trash tier units). As you noted, it's random, but with +1 to wound via Big Boss Killa, Deathskull rerolls, it's not so bad.

It'll be a really interesting balance between leveraging our CP hungry nature with these static boosts.

True, the 50% were before big killa boss and deff skulls, so it's actually better in that context.

On a side note.. why do Gunwagons explode on a 4+? Don't forget that after deploying one for the first time.

Probably cause they're full of explosives.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Probably cause they're full of explosives.

This guy gets it.

My second attempt at saga of the beast ork list barring any FAQs. I kinda gave up making large units of buggies to work still kinda expensive brittle and strats sometimes only work on 1.


1 CP warphead
1 CP for Vigilus
1 CP killa kan kustom job- sparkly bits
5 CP gorkanaut- kustom job- slug gubbin, teleport, ramming
1 CP gunwagon- kustom job- da boomer

My list

Death skull detachment (vigilus)
SSAG Mek w warlord trait bbk w grot
Warpead- mechanical seizure and da jump
3x 10 grots
Gorkanaut- slugg gubbin, teleport
Gunwagon- da boomer
10x + 1 squig tankbustas- in wagon

Grot detachment
SAG Mek w grot
SAG Mek w grot
3x10 grots
6x smasha gun (because I got 5 and will get 1 more)
6x killa kans w rokkits (sparkly bits)

Airwing detachment
Specialist mob- pyromaniacs
3x Burnabomber w skorcha missiles

Useful in game strategems
Vigilus shoot twice on gork
Flying headbutt
Wildfire

Honestly we now have a bunch of decent units but nothing that's amazing except a stacked SSAG. Which btw can get an invul and more health with cleverest boss.

I think my first game I'll use Boomboyz because I love Tankbustas so much.

I also just realized that Lobbas (Mek Gun legend) at 27 points now get Str 6, AP-1, d6 shots, hitting at BS4+, at 48" no LOS.

set of 3 is 81 points, and gets 3d6 shots. Squad can go up to 6, too.

That's... actually not bad? Those are supa shoota.

Set of 5 is cheaper than a Dakka jet.

It's not absolutely terrible. Nobody takes the Eldar support weapon that has similar stats (1 less AP but -4 on 6s to wound), BS3+, benefits from your craftworld (i.e. in most cases rerolls a roll to hit and wound + ignores cover), and costs 37 points. But that's probably because for 112 points you can get a nightspinner which is vastly better, rather than because it's terrible per se.

Re possible delay of FAQs and similar non-physical releases due the corona-virus shut-down, that is likely to depend on how well the relevant people are set up to work from home and whether any of those people are sick.

If we're lucky, they'll have little else to do and so the FAQ can proceed as normal (and might actually get proof-read for once ). If we're unlucky, someone important will be sick or can't get their PC to connect to the corporate network or whatever, and everything will be delayed Until Further Notice...

 Clang wrote:
Re possible delay of FAQs and similar non-physical releases due the corona-virus shut-down, that is likely to depend on how well the relevant people are set up to work from home and whether any of those people are sick.

If we're lucky, they'll have little else to do and so the FAQ can proceed as normal (and might actually get proof-read for once ). If we're unlucky, someone important will be sick or can't get their PC to connect to the corporate network or whatever, and everything will be delayed Until Further Notice...

Ive been checking ebay for ghazzy, not many resellers have him put up in the US yet (box isnt out yet which so no surprise but I thought they might still be taking orders for him) but id imagine shipping times are gonna be rough too

I'm hoping someone will be putting up the ebook or pdf of Saga. I plan to buy it either way but i'd like to read it in the interim.

From one of my discount stores, the Thrakka box was just 112€. I get 45€ for the Space Wolves half, and a box of MANz is 39,20€ from that same store.
Which means Thrakka and box of nobz clock in at 27,80€ - a price I'm willing to pay for the model even if its rules are gak.
Now I just need to figure out what to do with yet another box of nobz

Okay, so a thought popped into my head. The flying eadbutt strat is great, can leave a bunch of support characters in critical condition but is unlikley to KO many of them. We do have a trait that lets you shoot characters in 18" could it be possible to use this to chip off those last few wounds. On a biker boss with a relic gun maybe?

Our characters don't generate enough hits and lack the AP to reliably gun down characters in my experience.

Biker boss with a kustom shoota, maybe with gitstoppas or the dead shiny could get through the needed one or two right? Probably not against a 2++ though.

Mathhammer says 2.269 damage for shiny shoota and 1.555 for gitstoppas vs T4/3+.
I guess the shiney shoota loadout seems to be good enough for what you are trying to archive.

Alright, gave some of the new rules a try in TTS because real life is too limited ATM :(




I played against a tyranid list with 40 stealers, swarmlord, some double shooting hive guard, regular warriors, and two exocrines, a bunch of gaunts filled out two battalions. .

Still figuring out the medium of online play but still had a fun game.

The list has 25 cp to give me a chance to try out everything new.

Burna Bomber: with the new strat, + flying over units I did a total of 21 mortal wounds to his army. I think this was totally worth it. I went second so he had time to spread out but tyranid ranged anti tank is a perennial weakness of the army so I could outrange him in the corner. Hilariously, he consolidated genestealers into the plane so I couldn't advance, limiting my movement to only 50 so I couldn't fly over the unit I really wanted too. Weird interaction but something to keep in mind.

Lootas: Just doing their thing, was still forced to use a reroll on a 1 shot volley despite spanner giving 2 tries at higher. Against poorly armored tyranids they did phenomenal. Even though warriors having -1 damage and ignore ap 1 was annoying. Lootas eventually punched through.

Meganobs: With new psychic power for +1 save. My opponent used over run to get to them turn 1 before they were buffed and killed 4. So when I cast the +1 armor on the remaining 6 and da jumped them forward I was hopeful but realistic. However they did amazing. They made their charge and killed second stealers down to 8. Those stealers then did a single wound in return. 1+ save is phenomenal. The meganobs proceeded to eat a full round of hiveguard and exocrine and lost only a single meganobs. eventually the stealers and a broodlord finished them but not before they brought down the broodlord that was wounded by the burna bomber.

KFF changes: I brought 2 of them for each clan in the army. Gonna take a little getting used to clan locked. however, 5++ in close combat is phenomenal. I was not concerned at all about stealers wiping out 60 grots to get to my lootas/characters.

Deathskull Psychic power: This power seems amazing but I just can't quite get it to work. I think it just hasn't come up yet in testing.

i may have to finally bite the bullet and axe a vehicle to add a third batt into my lists.
Generally i find i prefer another vehicle (or two) instead of 5CP because vehicle lists really didnt use that much CP. Dropping a Naut + 1-2 Ramming Speed, Kustom Ammo on the SSAG, and 1-2 rerolls was really all i planned to use. I try to not use Kustom Ammo more than once since generally by then there isnt a super deadly target left i need dead NOW so i'd rather save the cp.

Yeah....that changed....
Suddenly vehicles are eating like 3-4CP for kustom jobs. Yeesh the CP demand lol. Little sad the KBB kustom job is a bit washed (useful but with only 6 shots and orky BS...that isnt going to trigger any mortals very often) and thats the only buggy i have multiples of. Super debating on buying more shockjumps now.

Really hope my local gamestore stays open long enough to get these preorders. They arent "closed" yet, just not allowing games, stay outside if too many inside, and reduced hours. I have a table in my basement and 2 40k playing roommates so i can still play...just need the plastic crack!!!

 Jidmah wrote:
From one of my discount stores, the Thrakka box was just 112€. I get 45€ for the Space Wolves half, and a box of MANz is 39,20€ from that same store.
Which means Thrakka and box of nobz clock in at 27,80€ - a price I'm willing to pay for the model even if its rules are gak.
Now I just need to figure out what to do with yet another box of nobz

if you have extra kombi weapons and 40 mil bases you have a squad of freebooterz

Edit: oops... I deserver a krumping


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 JNAProductions wrote:

popisdead wrote:
Unless I'm missing something the Teleporting Gorkanaut can be 2+ BS

5+ Stock.
4+ Kustom Job +1 BS
3+ Kustom Job fancier gun
2+ Freebooterz was triggered. Do a Dread Waaagh! shoot again. (i mention this as I play Freebooterz a fair bit these days). It's 4 CP (or more, or 3 and the Mekboy shop)?

You can't apply two Kustom Jobs to one unit.

Oh are the kustom jobs not the same as the ones from the mek shop?

I was hoping to be able to kustom job some buzz bombz on deff trikes.

kustom jobs are a stratagem you use in listbuilding.
1cp, one vehicle unit gets one of the listed Kustom Jobs.

Cannot use the same one twice or apply multiples to the same unit.

Mekshop's thing is totally different. Because yaknow kustom jobs are actually good. The "free" kustom job it gives now is literally a free instance of the stratagem.

Oh, I see, I just got confused, because the upgrade the mek shop can give in game is also called a Kustom Job... Kunfushun.

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's not absolutely terrible. Nobody takes the Eldar support weapon that has similar stats (1 less AP but -4 on 6s to wound), BS3+, benefits from your craftworld (i.e. in most cases rerolls a roll to hit and wound + ignores cover), and costs 37 points. But that's probably because for 112 points you can get a nightspinner which is vastly better, rather than because it's terrible per se.

That's interesting to me.

Because, roughly per point, 4 Lobbas is just a hair more expensive than 1 TFC (13 points) and outside of the dev doctrine, has roughly equivalent damage output (14 shots average, with explosions 8 hits, and it has +1 str, so better vs toughness 3, 5, 6).

If tremor shells weren't a thing, would TFCs still be taken?

tulun wrote:

If tremor shells weren't a thing, would TFCs still be taken?

Doubt it, though out of LOS shooting is incredibly valuable in ITC. Do they have the same range as each other?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tulun wrote:

If tremor shells weren't a thing, would TFCs still be taken?

Doubt it, though out of LOS shooting is incredibly valuable in ITC. Do they have the same range as each other?

It's 48" instead of 60" -- still very good, but not the "you can't hide from me" of the TFC.