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That might be true for nids, but how do you stop them with orks?

Things that refuses to get crushed by weight of attacks and have many attacks themselves have given me trouble for some time now, blightlords, wraiths or bulgryns also fit that category.

So this is what I've come to as a an army that I really like that doesn't even have smasha guns!





The burnas are straight up auto win vs a lot of msu armor lists like pure marines and sisters.

Generally, people have to kill bombers quickly or they might just lose. So it gives the gunwagon a measure of survivability it never had.

The boomwagon TM also blows up on a 4+ which is a mixed bag because it's super bad if it blows up near your army it's devastating but you can also use it to block. an army like blood angels wants to grab a thing that can't fall back, trap it, then kill it in my turn. That's fine now, I'll blow it up and it will kill or seriously injure all those units trapping it. I also have the blood axe battalion that can let my entire army swing on whatever is trying to melee me.

You might ask, "why make the whole battalion blood axe and not just the warboss and weirdboy?"

Cause I need grots to do the melee where the boss can't be. gives me 3 more units that have the ability to stop a unit from swinging.

I see that those 3 bombers ... bombed

Back to blackboard than. I´m trying to fit Ghaz in a Freeboterz list, but I dunno ATM how durable veichle are.
What could be a good substitute for a DJ ? How are those buggies at killing chaff?

Why not just use a dakkajet?

For me, the combinaton of two KBB with the random big shootas on scrapjet and the naut have done lots off chaff clearing. You don't want those big shootas, but when you have the anyways...

Flat 3 exploding wounds + exploding on a 4+ is devastating. Like I said with the wagon you can use it to block your deployment zone as well.

Also, super funny, if they "almost" kill a plane down to 3 or less wounds is flying it next to a plane you explode and trying to set them both off. It is just devastating against certain armies that don't have the bodies to stand in the proper places.

 vercingatorix wrote:
Flat 3 exploding wounds + exploding on a 4+ is devastating. Like I said with the wagon you can use it to block your deployment zone as well.

Also, super funny, if they "almost" kill a plane down to 3 or less wounds is flying it next to a plane you explode and trying to set them both off. It is just devastating against certain armies that don't have the bodies to stand in the proper places.

What list veichle are you tinkering for itc and would you like to discuss them somewhere else, if not here?

personally none of the buggies really feel like theyre any good at chaff clearing.
KBB is 'decent' once it gets in burna range but even then not really all that amazing at it. It usually dies once it gets that close though unless there just isnt much left that can hurt it reliably (unlikely)
If the Snazzwagon's kustom job didnt weaken the gun for some stupid reason a trio of Snazzies with their Kustom Job could chaff clear really nicely....but S4 AP1 isnt that big a deal for orks.

Dakkajet is probably the best vehicle at chaff clearing for the cost. Gork is good too especially with its kustomjob gun but its also almost twice as expensive as a dakkajet for marginally better shooting and a CP. Not to mention it isnt around turn1 99% of the time, dakkajets are.

Édit

think you quoted the wrong guy lol

 vercingatorix wrote:
So this is what I've come to as a an army that I really like that doesn't even have smasha guns!

Spoiler:

Freeboota Battalion

Weirdboy
kff mek
Badruck

30 grots
10 grots
10 grots

gunwagon
10 flash gitz
10 flash gitz

2 burna bombers

Deathskull battalion
SAG mek
weirdboy

3x 10 grots

1 burna bomber

Blood axe battalion

Weirdboy
Warboss

3 x 10 grots

The burnas are straight up auto win vs a lot of msu armor lists like pure marines and sisters.

Generally, people have to kill bombers quickly or they might just lose. So it gives the gunwagon a measure of survivability it never had.

The boomwagon TM also blows up on a 4+ which is a mixed bag because it's super bad if it blows up near your army it's devastating but you can also use it to block. an army like blood angels wants to grab a thing that can't fall back, trap it, then kill it in my turn. That's fine now, I'll blow it up and it will kill or seriously injure all those units trapping it. I also have the blood axe battalion that can let my entire army swing on whatever is trying to melee me.

You might ask, "why make the whole battalion blood axe and not just the warboss and weirdboy?"

Cause I need grots to do the melee where the boss can't be. gives me 3 more units that have the ability to stop a unit from swinging.

In your list you rely on the 20 Flash Gitz to clear chaff ? Do you start with one in the gun wagon ? I guess the 30 strong Grot unit is for da jumping in front of a unit of Gitz ?
Interesting list I must say. Looks like a modified version of the mass Grot + F Gitz lists we used to see in 2019, minus the mek gunz to trigger the freebooter trait

I have had success clearing chaff with bad moonz warbikerz as well.

addnid wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So this is what I've come to as a an army that I really like that doesn't even have smasha guns!

Spoiler:

Freeboota Battalion

Weirdboy
kff mek
Badruck

30 grots
10 grots
10 grots

gunwagon
10 flash gitz
10 flash gitz

2 burna bombers

Deathskull battalion
SAG mek
weirdboy

3x 10 grots

1 burna bomber

Blood axe battalion

Weirdboy
Warboss

3 x 10 grots

The burnas are straight up auto win vs a lot of msu armor lists like pure marines and sisters.

Generally, people have to kill bombers quickly or they might just lose. So it gives the gunwagon a measure of survivability it never had.

The boomwagon TM also blows up on a 4+ which is a mixed bag because it's super bad if it blows up near your army it's devastating but you can also use it to block. an army like blood angels wants to grab a thing that can't fall back, trap it, then kill it in my turn. That's fine now, I'll blow it up and it will kill or seriously injure all those units trapping it. I also have the blood axe battalion that can let my entire army swing on whatever is trying to melee me.

You might ask, "why make the whole battalion blood axe and not just the warboss and weirdboy?"

Cause I need grots to do the melee where the boss can't be. gives me 3 more units that have the ability to stop a unit from swinging.

In your list you rely on the 20 Flash Gitz to clear chaff ? Do you start with one in the gun wagon ? I guess the 30 strong Grot unit is for da jumping in front of a unit of Gitz ?
Interesting list I must say. Looks like a modified version of the mass Grot + F Gitz lists we used to see in 2019, minus the mek gunz to trigger the freebooter trait

I have 12 shots from the wagon's big shootas as well as 3 planes that shoot 12 shots each, half of them hitting on 4s. So it's not awful chaff clearing before relying on the gitz but also, why would I need to clear chaffe?

You clear chaffe to get at good stuff with melee units or hard hitting short ranged (12-18 inch) shooting, all my stuff is shooting and exploding so there's less of an urgent need to get through it.

and yes, one squad in wagon, one walking.

I took the mek guns out cause I was bored with them and they also had a tendency to take up too much damn room in TTS. I never had quite that much of an issue in real life so I might not play this as readily when tournaments open back up. But given the realities of the platform, having a second unit in wagon that didn't take up space gives me a lot more options in deployment to deploy away from scary slaneesh or ravenguard stuff.

Well IMHO chaff needs clearing because it sits on objectives, and since orks offer easy kills, ork players I see usually lose if the opponent sits on objectives all games killing squishy grot mobs and stuff (like mek gunz, which is one reason not to bring any).
Typical green tides clear stuff out of objectives rather easily, albeit the tough SM stuff currently dominating the meta. They also fail to clear tyranid warriors hah hah and a few other things.

Our new ork toys are great but big shootas hitting on 4s and 5s don’t scare much say plague bearers, gaunt carpets, etc.

Don’t know much about TTS constraints so

When it comes to clearing chaff I am a huge fan of my Scrapjets. I bring 3 to most games which gives me 36 Big Shoota shots, 18hitting on 4s and 18 on 5s and since they are freeboota, if my Mek gunz kill anything before the scrapjets open up they are hitting on 3s and 4s. In a pinch they are also good at starting the +1 to hit by killing those pesky guard units or minimum unit of scouts.

I brought out my Morkanaut against my friend's tri Lord of skulls army....big mistake his 3 LoW's killed Morky turn 1 which left me in a bit of trouble. He eventually won the game with me killing most of his army but him holding the objectives and winning on points. I am thinking of replacing him with a Big Mek KFF and then spending the other 280ish points on either more surprises. Maybe some Tankbusta's that can be Da jumped to suicide something. Would have definitely helped out vs those super heavies.

 vercingatorix wrote:
So this is what I've come to as a an army that I really like that doesn't even have smasha guns!

Spoiler:

Freeboota Battalion

Weirdboy
kff mek
Badruck

30 grots
10 grots
10 grots

gunwagon
10 flash gitz
10 flash gitz

2 burna bombers

Deathskull battalion
SAG mek
weirdboy

3x 10 grots

1 burna bomber

Blood axe battalion

Weirdboy
Warboss

3 x 10 grots

The burnas are straight up auto win vs a lot of msu armor lists like pure marines and sisters.

Generally, people have to kill bombers quickly or they might just lose. So it gives the gunwagon a measure of survivability it never had.

The boomwagon TM also blows up on a 4+ which is a mixed bag because it's super bad if it blows up near your army it's devastating but you can also use it to block. an army like blood angels wants to grab a thing that can't fall back, trap it, then kill it in my turn. That's fine now, I'll blow it up and it will kill or seriously injure all those units trapping it. I also have the blood axe battalion that can let my entire army swing on whatever is trying to melee me.

You might ask, "why make the whole battalion blood axe and not just the warboss and weirdboy?"

Cause I need grots to do the melee where the boss can't be. gives me 3 more units that have the ability to stop a unit from swinging.

It's quite similar to lists I end-up with when tinkering about using many Flash Gitz, Nobz and Battlewagons (and Snikrot) because I just love the models. I also miss the "Nobz as troops" rule of yore, and kinda try to circumvent its disappearance.

You obviously put the SSAG in DS to benefit from the rerolls and Maniacal Seizure, but have you thought about moving it to Freebotaz? The advice is usually go big or go home with them, but here having Badrukk, 20 Flash Gitz, the SSAG and a Gunwagon, that's quite a lot of options to decide who benefits from being the trigger and who from having the trait active. Not sure it compensates losing DS benefits but at least it'd make a fun firebase, lots of high S high D accurate shots

Reroll damage is so big on the SSAG that nothing can compare

Also, the deathskull sniper trait. I just won a game today entirely from that, Yolo'd him across the table, killed ycarne, no more borne for greatness secondary.

 vercingatorix wrote:
Also, the deathskull sniper trait. I just won a game today entirely from that, Yolo'd him across the table, killed ycarne, no more borne for greatness secondary.

how did you snipe him across the table? the sniper only works if the target is 18" or closer iirc

guarantee he didnt know it has an 18" range.

The only HQ that can even attempt to get use out of it is a Tellyporta Big Mek. Which WOULD be useful if that thing did at least 2 damage and/or slayed based on wounds remaining, not wound stat.
I've been meaning to at least TRY that guy. Especially with the new Da Kleverest Boss strat, he's still capable of holding his own in melee now and a 2+ armor is almost as good as a 5++ in most melee, if not better. Just behave like a proper ork and bully things that cant punch back reliably.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
guarantee he didnt know it has an 18" range.

The only HQ that can even attempt to get use out of it is a Tellyporta Big Mek. Which WOULD be useful if that thing did at least 2 damage and/or slayed based on wounds remaining, not wound stat.
I've been meaning to at least TRY that guy. Especially with the new Da Kleverest Boss strat, he's still capable of holding his own in melee now and a 2+ armor is almost as good as a 5++ in most melee, if not better. Just behave like a proper ork and bully things that cant punch back reliably.

I actually think Da Kleverest Boss isn't too bad. Shame that the 55 point Big Mek also gives an invul save in CC which makes it extra tempting.

But you can just imagine a Warboss on Bike (or walking), MA Big Mek, and Mad Dok grotsnik are all juicy, crumpy targets for Fists of Gork. The main reason I don't generally like it is that I don't really have redundant targets. Combine all 3 of these, and it feels a bit nicer to take it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
guarantee he didnt know it has an 18" range.

The only HQ that can even attempt to get use out of it is a Tellyporta Big Mek. Which WOULD be useful if that thing did at least 2 damage and/or slayed based on wounds remaining, not wound stat.
I've been meaning to at least TRY that guy. Especially with the new Da Kleverest Boss strat, he's still capable of holding his own in melee now and a 2+ armor is almost as good as a 5++ in most melee, if not better. Just behave like a proper ork and bully things that cant punch back reliably.

he jumped the SSAg, hence why he said he yolo;d him across the table. I've done this a couple of times, most notably with my SSAG and my friends Immotekh haha.

If only one of the Kustom jobs gave a warlord trait to a vehicle. Let us have our own tank commanders or buggie commanders. Could lead to some fun little nonsense. Also I can't remember but are you locked to the two warlord traits from the stompa mob when you use it to make a stompa a character?

cody.d. wrote:
If only one of the Kustom jobs gave a warlord trait to a vehicle. Let us have our own tank commanders or buggie commanders. Could lead to some fun little nonsense. Also I can't remember but are you locked to the two warlord traits from the stompa mob when you use it to make a stompa a character?

Yes-the only two warlord traits a Stompa can get are from the Specialist Detachment.

Damn, could you imagine how stupid it would be to give a stompa the sniper trait? Just walk up the field then aim those massive cannons down at some poor imperial officer bastard and nuke him.

So I got a lot of good feedback from you guys on this list.
But it feels short of CPs and some don’t like the idea of airwing bombers. So how is this variant switching the air wing for a battalion.

I’m going to need to break out the 3rd ed plastic Gretchin to play this list. any suggestions?

Tried a game out in TTS using the above list. It's a bit thrown together to just experiment with some of the new Saga of the Beast rules. I played against an Eldar soup list in the Seize Ground ITC Mission. A tl;dr of the game was I had strong board control and was able to max engineers, get the bonus point, and get 3 points in recon, and 3 points in big game hunter by the end of turn 3. Unfortunately I didn't have enough answers to their threats (see lack of AT outside of melee), so my opponent was able to turn the tide on me in turn 4 and table me shortly after.

A summary of how some of the units went:
Burna Bommers were good but I had never used them before so I had a lot of piloting errors. One of my Burna Bommers I planned to Flying 'Eadbutt right into my opponents deployment (I was going first), unfortunately he Agents of Vect'd it. I naively hadn't thought too much about it's positioning and it only had 2 eligible locations to move the next turn, which my opponent denied by placing units there. I did try out the wildfire stratagem as well, and I liked it. I was able to use it to target a unit that was just out of my flight path and deal a few mortal wounds. The second Bommer did headbutt successfully the next turn and killed two characters. I think 2 Burna Bommers is an okay amount to run, at least 1 feels like an auto include.

Killa Kans were positive and enabled a lot of my board control. I'm used to pumping them with support units to get them to do anything but my characters were mostly out of range of them this game as I had to spread them wide. Tin Eads was fantastic in buffing them in melee, the all performed great in when they got stuck into melee.
Sparkly gubbinz is honestly not worth it on Kans. BS3+ sounds great but it's only 6 rokkits or 6 big shootas. If you run Nauts then they'd be a better a target for the stratagem. If you don't run Nauts then there are half a dozen other Ork units that could replace that unit of Kans for a similar cost and they'll have a better shooting output. To add to that, I experimented with running skorchas and rokkits on Kans and it was not good. I think the best choice is to run big shootas across the board for Kans, it's the cheapest option and you'll get the most value out of it.
Orkymatic Pistons was great, I tried to push for the turn 1 charge with them and almost got it but needed a CP re-roll which was denied by Agents of Vect. I think running the Wartrike for the advance and charge was superfluous. 9" move is pretty decent movement but realistically you won't get that turn 1 charge unless your opponent presents themselves to you. It does mean that you will be able to zip these Kans into ideal positions a lot easier. I think a loose comparison can be drawn between these and Sydonian Dragoons.
Dirty Gubbinz worked great on the Kans as well. Since CA19 I've been saying that Kans have the durability and an additional -1 to hit just further improves that. I had these guys claim an objective turn 1 and then push around into enemy lines slowly over the next two turns. A Big Mek piggy backing with these guys would make it a real hard unit to shift.
For supporting the Killa Kans: Wartrike wasn't as necessary as I thought, Banner nob was good but not necessary thanks to Tin 'Eads, Big Mek was good, and Warpath was great. Next time I try Kans I will scrap the Wartrike, banner nob, and 3rd unit of Kans.
I also slapped Goark's Roar onto the Wartrike, it was good and even though it was only relevant for one turn it was enough for me to kill a character.

Ghazghull and Makari was a lot of
I think I need to experiment more with Ghaz. My opponent had a good toolset for killing Ghaz and spent turns 2 and 3 killing him. 2 Psychic phases, 2 shooting phases, and some overwatch. I tried footslogging Ghaz but he was a bit slower than I wanted. I think something like Tellyporta to drop him in behind an advanced unit of boyz or meganobz turn 2 or 3 would be how I want to run him next time. Another thing I want to try as well is just running Ghaz in a Naut heavy list for the sake of target saturation.
Makari is interesting, he ate a lot of shots and was actually one of my last models standing on the board. He had trouble keeping up with Ghaz when it came to charging, which was a bit of a problem as his value feels like it dips when he's not giving Ghaz the FNP. I'm not certain if the cost of losing out on a non-Goff klan is worth running Makari. I like the little dude though so I might squeeze him into a few more games.

Outside of new stuff, a few huge mistakes I made even in list building was not having Da Jump or any units along the lines of Flash Gitz, Lootas, Mek Gunz, or Tankbustas.

What did you need the cp reroll for the pistons? don't pistons give you free advance rerolls?

cody.d. wrote:
What did you need the cp reroll for the pistons? don't pistons give you free advance rerolls?

It was for a charge roll, which was something like a 6 and a 1 and I needed another 2". They Agents of Vect'd me CP re-rolling the 1.

Ooh right right, Kanz don't have Ere we go do they? Weedy little tin runtz.

gungo wrote:
But it feels short of CPs and some don’t like the idea of airwing bombers.

I think people misunderstood this - quite a few suggestions tried putting an airwing into an otherwise all infantry list. I do not believe this would work because there is no synergy between the actually pretty decent plane chassis hordes of boyz and therefore your enemy's anti-tank would be able to wipe all bommer by turn two with not much gained.
In a list like yours, you would force a pretty hard decision on your opponent by making him decide between the -1 to hit planes which are highly dangerous even at 1 wound or your gunwagon, nauts or buggies.

My list

Looks good just two things:
- What's the point of those tank bustas? They feel a little random to me.
- If you have the model, I believe that a morkanaut is a bette choice than 6x rokkit kanz.