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2020/04/08 05:08:25
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Tried a game out in TTS using the above list. It's a bit thrown together to just experiment with some of the new Saga of the Beast rules. I played against an Eldar soup list in the Seize Ground ITC Mission. A tl;dr of the game was I had strong board control and was able to max engineers, get the bonus point, and get 3 points in recon, and 3 points in big game hunter by the end of turn 3. Unfortunately I didn't have enough answers to their threats (see lack of AT outside of melee), so my opponent was able to turn the tide on me in turn 4 and table me shortly after.
A summary of how some of the units went: Burna Bommers were good but I had never used them before so I had a lot of piloting errors. One of my Burna Bommers I planned to Flying 'Eadbutt right into my opponents deployment (I was going first), unfortunately he Agents of Vect'd it. I naively hadn't thought too much about it's positioning and it only had 2 eligible locations to move the next turn, which my opponent denied by placing units there. I did try out the wildfire stratagem as well, and I liked it. I was able to use it to target a unit that was just out of my flight path and deal a few mortal wounds. The second Bommer did headbutt successfully the next turn and killed two characters. I think 2 Burna Bommers is an okay amount to run, at least 1 feels like an auto include.
Killa Kans were positive and enabled a lot of my board control. I'm used to pumping them with support units to get them to do anything but my characters were mostly out of range of them this game as I had to spread them wide. Tin Eads was fantastic in buffing them in melee, the all performed great in when they got stuck into melee. Sparkly gubbinz is honestly not worth it on Kans. BS3+ sounds great but it's only 6 rokkits or 6 big shootas. If you run Nauts then they'd be a better a target for the stratagem. If you don't run Nauts then there are half a dozen other Ork units that could replace that unit of Kans for a similar cost and they'll have a better shooting output. To add to that, I experimented with running skorchas and rokkits on Kans and it was not good. I think the best choice is to run big shootas across the board for Kans, it's the cheapest option and you'll get the most value out of it. Orkymatic Pistons was great, I tried to push for the turn 1 charge with them and almost got it but needed a CP re-roll which was denied by Agents of Vect. I think running the Wartrike for the advance and charge was superfluous. 9" move is pretty decent movement but realistically you won't get that turn 1 charge unless your opponent presents themselves to you. It does mean that you will be able to zip these Kans into ideal positions a lot easier. I think a loose comparison can be drawn between these and Sydonian Dragoons. Dirty Gubbinz worked great on the Kans as well. Since CA19 I've been saying that Kans have the durability and an additional -1 to hit just further improves that. I had these guys claim an objective turn 1 and then push around into enemy lines slowly over the next two turns. A Big Mek piggy backing with these guys would make it a real hard unit to shift. For supporting the Killa Kans: Wartrike wasn't as necessary as I thought, Banner nob was good but not necessary thanks to Tin 'Eads, Big Mek was good, and Warpath was great. Next time I try Kans I will scrap the Wartrike, banner nob, and 3rd unit of Kans. I also slapped Goark's Roar onto the Wartrike, it was good and even though it was only relevant for one turn it was enough for me to kill a character.
Ghazghull and Makari was a lot of I think I need to experiment more with Ghaz. My opponent had a good toolset for killing Ghaz and spent turns 2 and 3 killing him. 2 Psychic phases, 2 shooting phases, and some overwatch. I tried footslogging Ghaz but he was a bit slower than I wanted. I think something like Tellyporta to drop him in behind an advanced unit of boyz or meganobz turn 2 or 3 would be how I want to run him next time. Another thing I want to try as well is just running Ghaz in a Naut heavy list for the sake of target saturation. Makari is interesting, he ate a lot of shots and was actually one of my last models standing on the board. He had trouble keeping up with Ghaz when it came to charging, which was a bit of a problem as his value feels like it dips when he's not giving Ghaz the FNP. I'm not certain if the cost of losing out on a non-Goff klan is worth running Makari. I like the little dude though so I might squeeze him into a few more games.
Outside of new stuff, a few huge mistakes I made even in list building was not having Da Jump or any units along the lines of Flash Gitz, Lootas, Mek Gunz, or Tankbustas.
Thanks for the report. Forcing your opponent to vect twice in turn one is actually a pretty good thing. It sounds like if you tune that list a bit (and drop Ghaz ) it might actually be very promising. Just don't try mixing lootas in with that kind of army, I've tried to do so twice, and it was very unsuccessful, losing me the game once and forcing me into a draw on the second game. Not only do they burn through too many CP, but you also put the gretchin you need for board control in harms way. Lootas just don't work well with vehicle-heavy lists. If you drop your shooty kans and Thrakka, you should have plenty space to fill with scrapjets and/or SJD. It sounds like those are exactly what you're missing right now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 05:48:12
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/04/08 06:09:42
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Quick query;
I've seen a lot of people saying that the new KFF mek from saga of the beast is only 55 points, but battlescribe says that it's 75 points.
Can anyone with the book in front of them clarify which is correct?
2020/04/08 06:15:15
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Afrodactyl wrote: Quick query;
I've seen a lot of people saying that the new KFF mek from saga of the beast is only 55 points, but battlescribe says that it's 75 points.
Can anyone with the book in front of them clarify which is correct?
it's a bit up in the air now. the current big mek is 75 pts but the KFF upgrade where it is optional (wazbomb, mork, MA big mek) costs 20 pts leaving the base cost of the big mek 55 pts as is right now since he has to take the kff. the question on everyone's mind is did the base cost of the big mek get dropped 20 pts, or did GW make yet another error with a new set of rules.
2020/04/08 06:17:08
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Afrodactyl wrote: Quick query;
I've seen a lot of people saying that the new KFF mek from saga of the beast is only 55 points, but battlescribe says that it's 75 points.
Can anyone with the book in front of them clarify which is correct?
As explained multiple times, the datasheet from Saga is a mess.
RAW, the KFF mek does not have the KFF wargear and has no way of obtaining it. Therefore it's impossible to pay 20 points for it.
Luckily, they also fethed up the KFF rule for that one model not in one instance, but in four:
1) the save works in melee now
2) aura is clan-locked
3) it no longer protects the model's transport
4) it does not actually require the big mek to be equipped with the KFF wargear
So if you buy the "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field", you get a 55 point model with a slugga, choppa and stikkbombs that has an aura which works completely different from the piece of wargear we know.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/04/08 08:21:25
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Yep, play them quite a bit. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any post-PA games in against them as burna bommas seem to be a good counter to their ultra durable infantry. I've mostly faced them as paladin bombs and MW spam and haven't really played much against the no LoS paladin blob though..
Their spamming of MWs suck to be the recipient of but even so, we're probably the lucky ones as our wounds are worth less than many other armies. Really, between their difficult tricks of getting -1 damage, can only be wounded on 4+, negative to hit modifiers, great invulns and get to strike in CC even if they died etc etc, we really need MWs ourselves to bring them down IMO.
So, just as a very general tip, I'd say to look for any MW spamming potential in our book to try and counteract them. Normal strike marines (even with some buffs) aren't that hard to bring down but paladins need to be curb stomped with everything we have (or ignored but that's super risky)
2020/04/08 12:53:26
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
As explained multiple times, the datasheet from Saga is a mess.
Sorry for asking again. I've read it so many times over the last few pages and just glossed over it because I haven't been thinking about fitting a mek into my list.
Thanks for going over it.
2020/04/08 12:54:48
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Big Mek is such a mess i wouldnt even consider it until the FAQ drops.
Which hopefully we still get this weekend-ish despite the current circumstances. GW is clearly still there in the offices at least since articles keep coming out.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 13:03:14
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: Big Mek is such a mess i wouldnt even consider it until the FAQ drops.
Which hopefully we still get this weekend-ish despite the current circumstances. GW is clearly still there in the offices at least since articles keep coming out.
Working from home, I imagine.
REMAIN INDOORS!
2020/04/08 13:07:58
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Im thinking of giving that warlord trait another try on the wartrike. With the gork's roar job giving it extra range and upping the flamer to an automatic 6 hit, I can see him actually having the reach to blow up characters and get away with it.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/04/08 14:29:28
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Jidmah wrote: Im thinking of giving that warlord trait another try on the wartrike. With the gork's roar job giving it extra range and upping the flamer to an automatic 6 hit, I can see him actually having the reach to blow up characters and get away with it.
Nota bad idea ! Especially now that our anti tank has become even better, perhaps big Killa boss on the SSAG is not that mandatory anymore. Also if you can reach a character with burna bomber Exploding (who knows...) you will need something to finish said character off (most targets have 4 or more wounds)
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2020/04/08 14:33:21
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
My issue with that is its still only 12" which is pretty short and puts your warlord in an easily gangable position.
In theory though it would be rude as thats either 6 S5 AP1 autohits or 2 Meltas to a character's face. Especially with Deathskullz rerolls that can kill characters w/o a high invul really easily. I just wonder if you can attack more than once without getting dogpiled that close up.
Ive never had the wartrike even remotely close to combat and not immediately die. Kinda why i stopped making him my warlord, even though the warlord traits mega help him out.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 14:42:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: My issue with that is its still only 12" which is pretty short and puts your warlord in an easily gangable position.
In theory though it would be rude as thats either 6 S5 AP1 autohits or 2 Meltas to a character's face. Especially with Deathskullz rerolls that can kill characters w/o a high invul really easily. I just wonder if you can attack more than once without getting dogpiled that close up.
Ive never had the wartrike even remotely close to combat and not immediately die. Kinda why i stopped making him my warlord, even though the warlord traits mega help him out.
Yes but with 2 CPs, when he gets killed (and unless he gets killed in CC), then you can use the strat Orks is neva beatn and do some more sneaky sniping, huh huh huh. Because of character status, and the strat doesn’t specify infantry.
Ok you do give the kill the warlord away, but still. Fun thing If you can pull it off
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 14:44:15
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2020/04/08 15:06:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
So I'm going to be making an attempt at Deathakulls with ahokkjump dragstas and mek guns. Any other quintessential deathskulls units I should bring along? I'm brand new to the codex, and have only ever played against boy spam before.
I was considering pairing it with a Badmoons detachment featuring a shiny mokanaut, shoota boyz and dakkajet for horde clearing.
2020/04/08 15:14:27
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
weaver9 wrote: So I'm going to be making an attempt at Deathakulls with ahokkjump dragstas and mek guns. Any other quintessential deathskulls units I should bring along? I'm brand new to the codex, and have only ever played against boy spam before.
I was considering pairing it with a Badmoons detachment featuring a shiny mokanaut, shoota boyz and dakkajet for horde clearing.
Just field them as Deathskulls. DS works great for most units, including those.
You really only take BM for shoot twice on infantry like Lootas.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 15:15:04
2020/04/08 15:51:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: My issue with that is its still only 12" which is pretty short and puts your warlord in an easily gangable position. In theory though it would be rude as thats either 6 S5 AP1 autohits or 2 Meltas to a character's face. Especially with Deathskullz rerolls that can kill characters w/o a high invul really easily. I just wonder if you can attack more than once without getting dogpiled that close up.
Ive never had the wartrike even remotely close to combat and not immediately die. Kinda why i stopped making him my warlord, even though the warlord traits mega help him out.
True, my wartrike now often gets away with doing its stuff because it's not the warlord, slay the warlord is a pretty big incentive to finish it off.
Well, if the pandemic ends, we have a campaign lined up and my wartrike is my main character, which allows it to get access to all kinds of insane buffs from the custom character rules. Let's see if that makes any difference
Automatically Appended Next Post:
weaver9 wrote: So I'm going to be making an attempt at Deathakulls with ahokkjump dragstas and mek guns. Any other quintessential deathskulls units I should bring along? I'm brand new to the codex, and have only ever played against boy spam before.
I was considering pairing it with a Badmoons detachment featuring a shiny mokanaut, shoota boyz and dakkajet for horde clearing.
If you don't know what to play, deff skulls is the perfect clan for you - almost every unit in the codex gets some benefit from it.
The only time you really need another clan is when you want to deep strike assault units, ES does that so much better, you can't ignore it. Bad Moons is just for getting the shoot twice stratagem - even for shoota boyz and the dakkajet the difference between deff skulls and bad moons is minimal.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/08 15:56:05
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/04/08 17:44:24
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
8x Grot Tanks w/ KMBs = 9 KMB shots hitting on 4s with Grot Mob bonus (reroll 1s since they already have a 6++) for 321pts.
Grot Mega Tank w/ KMBs = 7x KMB shots hitting on 4s, rerolling 1s, and 1/6th chance to not be allowed to fire OR hit on 3s at the sacrifice of splitfiring for 148pts.
Megatank is T6 with 9W Grot Tank is T5 w/ 4W
Initially when i saw the Grot Mob i immediately thought 8x grot tanks with KMBs, thats 8 semi-quick (2d6 speed so random) tiny profile gits with some stupid deadly and accurate guns. But then i saw their costs....yeouch....forgot they were so expensive for some stupid reason.
Grot Mega Tanks though....half the cost of a full squad with 2 less guns and a just big enough profile to not constantly be out of LoS so the 2d6 movement doesnt shaft you sometimes. 7 KMBs for 148pts sounds pretty dope. Issue being that 1/6 chance to not be allowed to fire at all. Which happens right away so you cant just "see if i even need it" and choose it to fire with last.
edit: and man dakka is being slow today yeesh..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 17:48:50
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 18:16:08
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I believe the clan is all about Meks, Lootas, vehicles (but not necessarily SPEED FREEK vehicles). They love mechanized gak but not necessarily about going as fast as possible.
Honestly though, it's just the best all around clan as noted. Super Lucky and a 6++ invul is just so bloody good.
Grot Mega Tanks seem fun, yeah. But if you need it to be reliable in a pinch, gotta have a CP ready for that mutiny roll. 7 KMB hitting on 4's, re-rolling ones actually seems decent.
2020/04/08 18:20:45
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: My issue with that is its still only 12" which is pretty short and puts your warlord in an easily gangable position.
In theory though it would be rude as thats either 6 S5 AP1 autohits or 2 Meltas to a character's face. Especially with Deathskullz rerolls that can kill characters w/o a high invul really easily. I just wonder if you can attack more than once without getting dogpiled that close up.
Ive never had the wartrike even remotely close to combat and not immediately die. Kinda why i stopped making him my warlord, even though the warlord traits mega help him out.
True, my wartrike now often gets away with doing its stuff because it's not the warlord, slay the warlord is a pretty big incentive to finish it off.
Well, if the pandemic ends, we have a campaign lined up and my wartrike is my main character, which allows it to get access to all kinds of insane buffs from the custom character rules. Let's see if that makes any difference
Automatically Appended Next Post:
weaver9 wrote: So I'm going to be making an attempt at Deathakulls with ahokkjump dragstas and mek guns. Any other quintessential deathskulls units I should bring along? I'm brand new to the codex, and have only ever played against boy spam before.
I was considering pairing it with a Badmoons detachment featuring a shiny mokanaut, shoota boyz and dakkajet for horde clearing.
If you don't know what to play, deff skulls is the perfect clan for you - almost every unit in the codex gets some benefit from it.
The only time you really need another clan is when you want to deep strike assault units, ES does that so much better, you can't ignore it.
Bad Moons is just for getting the shoot twice stratagem - even for shoota boyz and the dakkajet the difference between deff skulls and bad moons is minimal.
On 18 shots it seems like rerolling all ones is better than rerolling a single miss?
Even more so for the boyz? Am I missing something? I thought deathskulls can only reroll 1 hit per unit.
2020/04/08 18:23:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Deathskullz can only reroll 1 hit, 1 wound, and 1 damage roll (i.e. the D6 damage on a KMB) per unit per phase, while bad moonz reroll all hits of 1in shooting. The issue is you need 18+ shots for the math to be more comparable between the two
But even then, its barely better. And you lose the 6++, which is a big deal given nothing except MANz or the Walkers have a save to even bother mentioning, and even then AP4 stuff is common too (for...some reason).
You need a crazy amount of dakka for bad moonz to be better, e.g 30x shoota boyz or 15 lootas.
Then theres the other point of deathskullz works in melee, bad moonz doesnt. Doesnt even work in overwatch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/08 18:29:54
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 18:31:52
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: Deathskullz can only reroll 1 hit, 1 wound, and 1 damage roll (i.e. the D6 damage on a KMB) per unit per phase, while bad moonz reroll all hits of 1in shooting.
The issue is you need 18+ shots for the math to be more comparable between the two
But even then, its barely better. And you lose the 6++, which is a big deal given nothing except MANz or the Walkers have a save to even bother mentioning, and even then AP4 stuff is common too (for...some reason).
You need a crazy amount of dakka for bad moonz to be better, e.g 30x shoota boyz or 15 lootas.
Then theres the other point of deathskullz works in melee, bad moonz doesnt. Doesnt even work in overwatch.
And with the new Deathskull psychic power, I don't even think i'd ever really want a Bad moon shoota boy. Gimme the invul save and AP-1, thanks.
2020/04/08 18:34:50
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I initially played bad moonz purely because my army was painted that way and i ran shooty orks anyway. I dont play competitive anyway.
But good god bad moonz takes forever to shoot with.... i actually play much faster as deathskullz AND its better lol
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 19:20:37
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Morkanaut has an added benefit of Badmoonz that ANY 1s you roll you can reroll to avoid self-nuking. Statistically you shouldnt have more than 1 1 though with the KMB shots, 2-3 between all shots, but the KMBs are the main ones that actually matter due to the rerollable damage roll anyway.
Sometimes i get unlucky with my mork as deathskullz and i self-nuke because i rolled multiple 1s, but it honestly rarely happens.
Them losing the 6++ is less of an issue since they have a KFF, and melee AP4 is generally easily identified and avoided.
But then you fall back on the overall issue of deathskullz vs badmoonz imo. The 2-3 units that like being bad moonz, are almost if not equally as good as deathskullz and the other units you WILL HAVE in that detachment are going to hate being badmoonz but love deathskullz (ssag)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/04/08 20:17:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
In the index currently with one probably coming in the Redone Forgewolrd Xenos Book.
DieHard 40K player. Primary Army: Goff/Deffskull Orks 18,000+ pts (And Growing Still, slowly)
Secondary army: Mentor Legion Space Marines, 4000 or so (heading for about 7-8000)
Tertiary army: Tau , eh bout 1750 or so, (someday 2-3000)
2020/04/08 20:54:09
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
) it might actually be very promising.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
(And Growing Still, slowly)
4000 or so (heading for about 7-8000)
, eh bout 1750 or so, (someday 2-3000) 