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 Tomsug wrote:
What is the better roadblock? 1 ghazz or 10x10 grots? It' s the same price....

Orks have so many good roadblock units, I fail to see how a 285 model which is slow as fudge can be of any use here. We can da jump boyz for roadblocks, send kopters in, stormboyz or shokk jump dragstas (last two are pricey though).

I am not even eager anymore to get the shipment containing my Ghaz model. There is so much other stuff I want to try out which got great rather balanced rules/buffs (Gorkanauts and gunwagons, bonecrushas, etc.).

GW will probably drop him to 220 points next chance they get so I am not worried on the ong term. Mindu you even at 220 points I am unsure how comp he would be

So, having read all the fluff in the box and the new PA...

... how did Thrakka actually lose his head? Did I miss that part?

If you take an Evil Suns Gorkanaut, and give orkymatic pistons, and then put a standard Mek inside with evil Suns redder armor relic...

8" base move + 3" pistons + 1" Evil Sun + 1" Redder relic embarked = 13" movement?

Seems ok, can reroll advance roll and get +1" from ES.

With wartrike nearby for advance and charge could possibly clear 32" in first turn?

Plus its possibly dealing mortal wounds to all nearby enemy units at end of movement phase.

Bigdoza wrote:
If you take an Evil Suns Gorkanaut, and give orkymatic pistons, and then put a standard Mek inside with evil Suns redder armor relic...

8" base move + 3" pistons + 1" Evil Sun + 1" Redder relic embarked = 13" movement?

Seems ok, can reroll advance roll and get +1" from ES.

With wartrike nearby for advance and charge could possibly clear 32" in first turn?

Plus its possibly dealing mortal wounds to all nearby enemy units at end of movement phase.

This seems hilarious, I need to try it.

So is there ANY hope for burnas? Sitting on basically 3 kits of burna bits, going to at least buy one box of boys to convert (then cry I have a stupid amount of shoota bits). Only thing I can see is maybe putting them in a truck and advancing... but eh. Don't understand the logic with d3 shots. Somehow we out dakka everything but this.

Bigdoza wrote:
If you take an Evil Suns Gorkanaut, and give orkymatic pistons, and then put a standard Mek inside with evil Suns redder armor relic...

8" base move + 3" pistons + 1" Evil Sun + 1" Redder relic embarked = 13" movement?

Seems ok, can reroll advance roll and get +1" from ES.

With wartrike nearby for advance and charge could possibly clear 32" in first turn?

Plus its possibly dealing mortal wounds to all nearby enemy units at end of movement phase.

You can also use ramming speed for a 3d6 charge.

I would skip on the redder armor, because that extra inch doesn't matter that much and you can't get within 1" of enemy models during the movement phase. Otherwise, if you can clear the screen and get other stuff like warbikers or koptas into your opponent's face as well, it might work.
Just keep in mind that nauts can't advance and charge their main cannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Keramory wrote:
So is there ANY hope for burnas? Sitting on basically 3 kits of burna bits, going to at least buy one box of boys to convert (then cry I have a stupid amount of shoota bits). Only thing I can see is maybe putting them in a truck and advancing... but eh. Don't understand the logic with d3 shots. Somehow we out dakka everything but this.

You could try the pyromaniacs subculture and drive them forward with Big Trakks or chinorks. Re-rolling to wound in combat isn't terrible, but outside of that, I really see no reason to field them.

I’m still of the mind the best gorknaut layout is the slug gubbin kustom job and teleport it in for 24x bs4 shots at str6 ap-1 1 damage plus rokkits and shootas. Put it in your deff skull dread mob detachment for reroll to hit, to wound and to shoot twice if needed.
It just became a huge immediate threat and The slug gubbin even allows you to hit on overwatch on 5 since it adds 1 to your hit rolls.

gungo wrote:
I’m still of the mind the best gorknaut layout is the slug gubbin kustom job and teleport it in for 24x bs4 shots at str6 ap-1 1 damage plus rokkits and shootas. Put it in your deff skull dread mob detachment for reroll to hit, to wound and to shoot twice if needed.
It just became a huge immediate threat and The slug gubbin even allows you to hit on overwatch on 5 since it adds 1 to your hit rolls.

it would still only hit on 6's. Overwatch has different rules for hit modifiers, you would specifically need a rule that adds +1 to hit on OVERWATCH.

I do think you have it right for the Gork, though. DS also gives it a 6+ invul (better than nothing), combat bonuses which is nice, you still wanna ramming speed regardless it so the ES bonus charge isn't as useful. You could even combo it with Maniacal Seizure so the unit it shoots at will be at AP-2, making it even scarier.

I'm not sure if the Deathskull klan would really benefit the gorkanaught much. Too many shots and no random damage values. The mork would love it though. I kinda feel that evil suns would get a bit more mileage out of the gork. Throw on visions on it then fire twice. Maybe more dakka if you're feeling spicy. Shame the Mega shoota is heavy though. Still don't miss the days when that beast was 3D6 shots.

Either way I still love freebootz for the big naughts. Hitting on 3s with those beasts is a riot.

You get re-rolls for both shooting and melee though.
The whole point of a gorkanaut is to get those six attacks into combat, if you just want a pile of S6 AP-1 shots, a dakkajet does that way better.

Doesn't visions in the smoke give re-rolls to hit in combat and shooting for a turn? Even then it still gives a naught more than the blue boys would due to the naught relying on volume rather then quantity. (that is to say, less vital wound and damage rolls you'd want to re-roll from Lucky Gitz.)

You do realize vision only goes off 25% of the time on the Gork? Gork lists don’t typically get the psychic bonuses.

So do you guys have any advice against Grey Knights? I ask because they seem to dish out a nasty amount of damage regardless of the phase. Storm bolter spam chews through boys as does psychic. When you finally get in melee you have to hope they can't attack back because their weapons all have AP and they mass swing with shock assault.

Looking for ideal units to field

Burnabommas completely hose grey knights.

It is kinda hilarious how things have flipped. Grey knights used to be one of the worst factions in 40K. Now we actually have to be careful of the shiny bastards.

As for how to deal with them. As I recall their anti tank is one of their major shortcomings. That and they're still just expensive oldmarines.

cody.d. wrote:
It is kinda hilarious how things have flipped. Grey knights used to be one of the worst factions in 40K. Now we actually have to be careful of the shiny bastards.

As for how to deal with them. As I recall their anti tank is one of their major shortcomings. That and they're still just expensive oldmarines.

I think their anti tank is way better now with their buffed psycannons from tides and just being able to smite everything off the board.

tulun wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
It is kinda hilarious how things have flipped. Grey knights used to be one of the worst factions in 40K. Now we actually have to be careful of the shiny bastards.

As for how to deal with them. As I recall their anti tank is one of their major shortcomings. That and they're still just expensive oldmarines.

I think their anti tank is way better now with their buffed psycannons from tides and just being able to smite everything off the board.

Yeah, GK pretty much are deadly in every phase of the game now thanks to points cuts in CA and all the buffs to them via stratagems and base rules in PA. Before this, they werent efficient in CC since most units only had 1 base attack a d even with storm bolters, they could only affect 1 unit a time with their psi-weaponry stratagem. Now with shock assault, bolter discipline and an army wide way to buff all their shooting or psychic phase effectively on command means you cant just punk them on one phase.

I'll try more nauts and deff dreads. I know boys are not the answer because as I mentioned, they just rip apart in every phase.

My friend is also trying to eventually build a complete infantry brigade list, which essentially just smites you off the table. Trying not to be sour about it, but absolutely nuts to have an entire army smite on just 4s for a psychic test, it never increase and do flat 2 damage.

Keramory wrote:
I'll try more nauts and deff dreads. I know boys are not the answer because as I mentioned, they just rip apart in every phase.

My friend is also trying to eventually build a complete infantry brigade list, which essentially just smites you off the table. Trying not to be sour about it, but absolutely nuts to have an entire army smite on just 4s for a psychic test, it never increase and do flat 2 damage.

I could imagine just straight up board control might work with a grot horde, backed up our usual suspects like SAGs.

I think paladins are damn hard to crack even with burna bombers. They can get a 5+++ I’m pretty sure with 3 wounds each. But a slow slogging infantry army isn’t necessarily good at board control...

Alright, had an ITC match vs wolves yesterday with this list



He brought a less competitive list, tons of thunderwolf calvary, a host of characters, hellblasters, other primaris i didn't learn the names of, and a vindicator.

I took:
Gang Busters
Recon
Headhunter

His turn 1
He chose to go first, and surged up to midfield uncontested. Had some units outflanking.
----

My turn 1
On my turn 1 I zoomed the bommas over his TWC and removed some bases. Plus flyin headbutt.. Not the ideal targets, but the 3++ spam was scary.

Smashas removed 2 hellblaster squads, and 2 other primarus squads.

Da souped up shokka whiffed (as is it's gork given right).

I jumped a Gretchen squad to the backfield to hold a rear objective and a dragsta did the fire and fade, putting some damage on the vindicator.
---
His turn 2 he failed some charges and killed some grots.
---
My turn 2
My boyz form a defensive line, 3 dragstas jump back to snipe bjorn, but he ends up using a stratagem to let his vindicator shoot, and ends up blowing one up.

I basically proceeded cleanup this turn. 2 bommas are turning around, I wipe out his infantry and Ragnar. Smashas finish TWC and vindicator.

---

All and all a crushing or victory, but the his list wasn't built to be competitive. Super elite army that wants to get into melee. Will report back with more battles.

Something I learned is that midfield is none of my business, and so far thats okay with me. Dragstas and da jump can get my board presence where it needs to be without slogging.

tulun wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I'll try more nauts and deff dreads. I know boys are not the answer because as I mentioned, they just rip apart in every phase.

My friend is also trying to eventually build a complete infantry brigade list, which essentially just smites you off the table. Trying not to be sour about it, but absolutely nuts to have an entire army smite on just 4s for a psychic test, it never increase and do flat 2 damage.

I could imagine just straight up board control might work with a grot horde, backed up our usual suspects like SAGs.

I think paladins are damn hard to crack even with burna bombers. They can get a 5+++ I’m pretty sure with 3 wounds each. But a slow slogging infantry army isn’t necessarily good at board control...

Eadbutt is 3 mortal wounds per unit on top of the normal bomb mortal wounds. It does a lot of mortal wound damage to unit stars that hide under multiple auras. At best it’s taking out a few character auras.

 Jidmah wrote:
So, having read all the fluff in the box and the new PA...

... how did Thrakka actually lose his head? Did I miss that part?

It was reserved for the wulfy fanfic book at Black Library. Valrak posted a summary of the events of the book.

So at this point are there any Ork players at all that think Ghaz is competitive?

Also, someone mentioned reducing him to 220pts....I still wouldn't take him even at that price because he still is doing the same job that a warboss with relic klaw can do better and cheaper. If they don't fix the underlying problems the only way to make him playable would be to reduce his points cost to ridiculous levels.

If they did any of these he'd be worth considering imo:

- Gave Ghaz 4 more wounds (so he survives another phase)

- Made him infantry

- Made his auras apply to himself

- Reduce his cost to sub 250 after doing one or more of these.

I’d like
price reduction
Aura to himself
And a new CP generating ability like ghaz provides 3 additional cp. (or 2 cp and all Goff boys in his detachment get free skar boys strat)

He pretty much needs all 3 of those to be competitive. Only 1 would make him still worse then the warboss w strat upgrade.

If they made him infantry he would be to strong. Mainly because of painboy heals but there is a lot more he can do.

4 more wounds might be to strong too but 1-2 more wound is interesting idea.

Overall he doesn’t add much you can’t get elsewhere cheaper points wise and he doesn’t synergize or add anything to the army.

I also don’t like that most auras are Goff locked. The only thing he should be locked to is Goff warlord trait. (and Goff boys upgrade)

No he’s not competitive play him in narrative games and use warboss on bike w relic klaw and biggest boss strat as competitve choice. Cheaper faster and deadlier.

I'd put "can ride transports" on the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I also don’t like that most auras are Goff locked.

Only his new re-roll ones to hit in combat aura is goff locked, which is fairly useless anyways IMO.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd put "can ride transports" on the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I also don’t like that most auras are Goff locked.

Only his new re-roll ones to hit in combat aura is goff locked, which is fairly useless anyways IMO.

I feel like given that he's THE boss of the Great WAAAGH!, just giving reroll 1's to hit (both shooting and CC) to all Ork units rather than just Goffs wouldn't be that far-fetched given that he's the racial leader of effectively the whole faction. It would give more incentive to run him on foot and if his WAAAGH! aura affected himself and he had a price reduction I think he would do a lot for several builds, both dred mob and otherwise, which should make sense since he's been shown fluff-wise to effectively use different Klanz together.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd put "can ride transports" on the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
I also don’t like that most auras are Goff locked.

Only his new re-roll ones to hit in combat aura is goff locked, which is fairly useless anyways IMO.

Ya there reroll 1 in melee should be reroll 1 to all attacks and not goff locked
His only restrictions should be he only benefits from goff klan tactics and can only use goff warlord trait.
And if they gave him the 2 cp plus goff boys are all skarboys like I suggested above (or just 3 extra cp)

Makari should have been goff and grot locked but his banner and his leadership auras should have been all ork/Gretchin units. He still needs to be near ghaz to be truly worthwhile.

Ghaz and makari are mostly a missed opportunity due to unnecessary restrictions added to them.

What if Ghaz Waaaagh ability worked on all Ork units. That way he is buffing himself but also other bigger things around him.

Someone said he'd be too powerful if he had the infantry keyword, well so what? Isn't he supposed to be the strongest Ork in the galaxy?

I suspect all that will happen is they will change something like the ramming strat to affect Monsters as well so he has access to a 3d6 charge ability. I feel like the Monster keyword is the most useless keyword in 8th edition. It has zero benefits over anything else in the game

Purely the only issue with making him Infantry is the painboy.
Painboy would be healing him 2d3 every turn, instead of just D3. He'd be totally unkillable unless you kept rolling like crap on the heals or your opoonent managed to cause psyker + shooting + melee damage (or at least 2 of those).
Still would rather him 9 wounds and not have that 4w per phase thing. Its one of those rules that feels either super overpriced or downright broken....never even remotely balanced.

Im fine with him being a monster he just needs rules to not feel uber gimped by it.

My first thought was his waaagh should affect Orks. I dont get why it doesnt affect everything when he has the biggest and baddest waaagh of them all. It wouldnt be broken at all, hes so expensive running him near a naut is kinda difficult/pricy and everything else isnt nearly powerful enough where 1 extra attack would break something.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Purely the only issue with making him Infantry is the painboy.
Painboy would be healing him 2d3 every turn, instead of just D3. He'd be totally unkillable unless you kept rolling like crap on the heals or your opoonent managed to cause psyker + shooting + melee damage (or at least 2 of those).
Still would rather him 9 wounds and not have that 4w per phase thing. Its one of those rules that feels either super overpriced or downright broken....never even remotely balanced.

Im fine with him being a monster he just needs rules to not feel uber gimped by it.

My first thought was his waaagh should affect Orks. I dont get why it doesnt affect everything when he has the biggest and baddest waaagh of them all. It wouldnt be broken at all, hes so expensive running him near a naut is kinda difficult/pricy and everything else isnt nearly powerful enough where 1 extra attack would break something.

exactly painboy and grot shield makes ghaz unkilable until you table everything around him... having unkillable characters is partly why 8th edition had to revamp rules.. 2++ rerollable saves broke 7th. It’s not about him being powerful is bad. We don’t want to go back to busted character spam. I agree with everything you said. Also I think giving ghaz access to ramming speed is a good idea to help him.