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Opinions on what clan(s) I should run for a competitive ork list? I’ve been mainly looking at suns/bad moons/skulls but I’m getting really interested in a pure Freebooterz army and wondering how viable it is?

Drdotts wrote:
Opinions on what clan(s) I should run for a competitive ork list? I’ve been mainly looking at suns/bad moons/skulls but I’m getting really interested in a pure Freebooterz army and wondering how viable it is?

Specific styles of Freebootas have done fine, even in ITC. There's a list kicking around that got top 8 recently with 30 flash gits and a gak ton of grots.

The most competitive lists mix clans; Probably the best one right now will be Evil Suns / Deathskulls / Grot Mobs, for a core of boys (evil Suns), stuff to pump your shock attack guns (Deathskulls), and stuff to boost your mek guns (Grot mobs). Most top lists are a variation of boys with some kind of shooting element support.

The best mono clan is undoubtedly Deathskulls.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:


How competitive are the following:
-30 man boys (either set at this unit size, or mobbing up 10man & 20man) and Da Jumping turn one? (also Warpath'ing too?) Not sure I want to go full bore 40 man mobbed up unit, but I'm just looking to field one big boyz unit, then rest of the troops being gretchins. Is one big mob enough to give opponents fits? Or is this one of those tactics that if I'm going with large mobs of boyz, it's better to have multiples?

-What's better? Three CC Deff Dreads (each 2x klaw, 1x saw, scorcha with KJ Dirty Gubbinz) or 6x shoota Killa Kans (with KJ sparkly bits)? I plan on Tellyporta for turn 2 Carnifex distraction...

-I know warbikers isn't a thing in 8th ed, and I have a ton from my 5th ed days... but, wouldn't a maxed out warbiker squad function as simply a mobile shooting platform? Mainly targeting large cheap squads or small elite units?

1) I don't think 1 unit of boys generally does well (or a 20/10 split). The power of boys seems to be in tying down your opponent while you score / go after their other pieces, and you will need more than 1 turn / unit to do that (your 30 man squad should be dead from the counter charge). Someone else can probably speak better to this than I, though.

2) Skorchas are not a competitive choice on dreads. Too expensive, and you will probably almost never get them to shoot. My favourite kit out is the Deathskull Klaw / saw / KMB / KMB dread, personally. The full CC one too out of deep strike is also good.

3) They are boy substitutes, not gun platforms. You use them as another way of tying stuff up, as they can have a MASSIVE movement turn 1 with specialist detachments and stratagems (I believe with a new kustom job, hypothetically 36" before charging).

Drdotts wrote:
Opinions on what clan(s) I should run for a competitive ork list? I’ve been mainly looking at suns/bad moons/skulls but I’m getting really interested in a pure Freebooterz army and wondering how viable it is?

The trio of Evil Suns/ Bad Moons/ Deathskulls made a lot of sense prior to all this but I honestly think it's a bit up in the air at the moment with a combination of Saga coming out and games mostly being limited to Table Top Sim. It's worth noting the difficulties of playing a horde list in Table Top Sim and I think that will impact a lot of lists being shared over the next few months.
I think Deathskulls is still a staple due to the SSAG Big Mek and general value of the kultur. I think Bad Moons is easier to scrap now, Freebooters and Grot Mobs offer valid swaps for dakka and tend to involve less CP intensive units. If you want to run boyz Evil Sunz is still the way to go. If you're not interested in boyz or don't want to triple your game time in Table Top Sim then I don't see much reason to commit to Evil Sunz.
In this interview with Steve Pampreen his list was Deathskulls, Freebooterz, and Blood Axes. I think it's a good example of how lists may differ from what we're used to prior to Saga and Covid.

Re: Freebooterz:
There is some merit to a pure Freebooterz army but if your list cannot trigger the +1 to hit, or your opponent can deny it then you're playing without a clan kultur. I think you'd have to rely on a lot of smasha guns to get it to consistently work. From experience its an army that feels good when it works but can feel really bad when it doesn't.

There is a fair bit of fun in the freebootaz trait. Requires a bit of planning and target priority. But it's true that it's easier to proc against some armies than others. Tau for instance is laughably easy, hey look 2 shield drones! Bamn 1+ to hit. But on others it can take a lot of effort such as an ironhands or a knight list. Maybe that's why I like it, it takes more effort but gives a flat reward. Can't wait to test it out with the new Kustom Jobs and stratagems.

 whembly wrote:
How competitive are the following:
-30 man boys (either set at this unit size, or mobbing up 10man & 20man) and Da Jumping turn one? (also Warpath'ing too?) Not sure I want to go full bore 40 man mobbed up unit, but I'm just looking to field one big boyz unit, then rest of the troops being gretchins. Is one big mob enough to give opponents fits? Or is this one of those tactics that if I'm going with large mobs of boyz, it's better to have multiples?

You definitely need multiple, no army has trouble wiping out a single mob. The most common use is bringing three mobs of boyz as Evil Suns to make deep strikes more reliable. Turn one you jump you first mob to keep your opponent occupied, aiming to tri-point something so they don't get wiped out. Turn two you jump another one and tellyport the third one in. If you're lucky you can use the endless green tide stratagem to pick up the first one you jumped and deep strike that one as well, so your opponent has to handle 90 boyz at once. Otherwise try to use the stratagem during your next turn, 15+ free boyz might tip the odds in your favor. Some people have had success with just two mobs, you basically skip the first turn jump and just throw two mobs at them in turn 2.

-What's better? Three CC Deff Dreads (each 2x klaw, 1x saw, scorcha with KJ Dirty Gubbinz) or 6x shoota Killa Kans (with KJ sparkly bits)? I plan on Tellyporta for turn 2 Carnifex distraction...

Probably the dreads, solely because shoota kans are terrible. Note that skorchas aren't great on dreads either, but I guess you're stuck with the models you have.
If you do tellyport them, don't toss them away as distraction carnifexes, but try to get value out of them. Holding them off till turn 3 and taking down a valuable target will do much more for your game than dropping them a turn earlier and killing some random infantry. Make sure to use the ramming speed stratagem for one of them and use the Evil Suns culture.

-I know warbikers isn't a thing in 8th ed, and I have a ton from my 5th ed days... but, wouldn't a maxed out warbiker squad function as simply a mobile shooting platform? Mainly targeting large cheap squads or small elite units?

I'm running a large biker squad fairly regularly. Their shooting isn't as impressive as it used to be, because AP has become much more important. With the help of the Kult of Speed specialist detachment and a bikerboss or wartrike, they can easily do 30"+ charges in turn one, functioning very similar to how I described boyz above, basically just bogging down the enemy in their deployment zone. Not highly competitive, but it works.

 Billagio wrote:
Im using these as a baseline, but havnt done much of the work yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N36YQIP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Are these the right size?

@Jimdah and Tulun: Thanks for the feedback.

Multiple large boyz squads are needed to be effective, probably minimum of 2x units of 30 boyz. I can try that... it's just that I'm trying to avoid going full bore on greentide.

Skorcha = bad. Gotcha. I'll throw another saw/klaw or KMB instead.

I'm trying to theory hammer an ork gunline, but have enough forward pressure to keep my opponent busy while the gretchins goes after objectives and the gun line plinks away. Here's what I'm starting with:

weaver9 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im using these as a baseline, but havnt done much of the work yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N36YQIP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Are these the right size?

Quoted as 4” x 2” x 1.75”. 100 x 50 x 43 in New. Money.

weaver9 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Im using these as a baseline, but havnt done much of the work yet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N36YQIP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Are these the right size?

Not sure on the size of the actual Mek Gunz from GW but these seem a bit smaller. That being said with some extra gubbinz and orkification it can easily be the same size

 Quackzo wrote:

The trio of Evil Suns/ Bad Moons/ Deathskulls made a lot of sense prior to all this but I honestly think it's a bit up in the air at the moment with a combination of Saga coming out and games mostly being limited to Table Top Sim. It's worth noting the difficulties of playing a horde list in Table Top Sim and I think that will impact a lot of lists being shared over the next few months.
I think Deathskulls is still a staple due to the SSAG Big Mek and general value of the kultur. I think Bad Moons is easier to scrap now, Freebooters and Grot Mobs offer valid swaps for dakka and tend to involve less CP intensive units. If you want to run boyz Evil Sunz is still the way to go. If you're not interested in boyz or don't want to triple your game time in Table Top Sim then I don't see much reason to commit to Evil Sunz.
In this interview with Steve Pampreen his list was Deathskulls, Freebooterz, and Blood Axes. I think it's a good example of how lists may differ from what we're used to prior to Saga and Covid.

Re: Freebooterz:
There is some merit to a pure Freebooterz army but if your list cannot trigger the +1 to hit, or your opponent can deny it then you're playing without a clan kultur. I think you'd have to rely on a lot of smasha guns to get it to consistently work. From experience its an army that feels good when it works but can feel really bad when it doesn't.

I liked that interview.

Yeah, I seem to greatly prefer mass grots than loads of boys. It feels easier to play with them, and probably less consequential if they aren't perfectly placed (meanwhile, poorly screening / placing you 210+ point boy squad can lose the game).

It seems like he's largely employing what we suspected -- suicidal planes are probably going to crop up in high level Ork play. I'm not sure about the Gunwagon at top tables, but who knows.

It's been a while, but I'am looking at a reviving my deathskull army. I got a lot of loota's and really like the new ' klever spanner' stratagem.
Maybe this has been discussed previously but isn't this really good? I don't see a lot of army-lists with loota's and I am wondering why.

shogun wrote:

It's been a while, but I'am looking at a reviving my deathskull army. I got a lot of loota's and really like the new ' klever spanner' stratagem.
Maybe this has been discussed previously but isn't this really good? I don't see a lot of army-lists with loota's and I am wondering why.

Lootas are paradoxically better on bad moons rather than DS. Their big issue on my book is that they are exceptionally CP hungry. You need grot shield, klever spanner and shoot twice to justify their point cost. Otherwise, they are an expensive glass cannon.

Using wreckers (deff skulls stratagem) instead of shoot twice works well enough in semi-competitive environments. Klever spanner isn't a terrible stratagem (it vastly reduces the chance of getting just one shot, an increases the chance of getting three), but it just adds to the pile of CP you need to keep lootas operational.

The main reason why lootas have disappeared from competitive gaming is because they eat up too many CP and space marines, the current ringleader, has no trouble wiping them out in one turn, no matter how many gretchin you use as shields.

 Jidmah wrote:
Using wreckers (deff skulls stratagem) instead of shoot twice works well enough in semi-competitive environments. Klever spanner isn't a terrible stratagem (it vastly reduces the chance of getting just one shot, an increases the chance of getting three), but it just adds to the pile of CP you need to keep lootas operational.

The main reason why lootas have disappeared from competitive gaming is because they eat up too many CP and space marines, the current ringleader, has no trouble wiping them out in one turn, no matter how many gretchin you use as shields.

Also lootas are a pain to deploy, they need LOS (you can da jump them but it’s hard to Grot shields them after), the need the grots in front. 15 lootas and 30 grots is a huge footprint, and on a dense table (as all 8th Ed tables should be) it is
1 problematic for the rest of ork stuff (nearly all our units have huge footprints)
2 takes time and when you are on the clock it’s just horrible

You can place them in an open topped vehicule but then you have AT issues

@shogun I also love their lore though

And 30 gretchins, particularly if they are in 10 big blops, is trivial to bypass. 10 squads in particular are vulnerable being bypassed by fast units and melee units and with 30"+ charges not being even that weird these days.

Has anyone had any luck with plain ol' biker boys these days? They cost about the same as three shootaboys with the same firepower, but carry 1 more wound, 1 more toughness, and a 4+ save instead of the t-shirt, so, i'd think that there'd be some room for 'em… but they're not so hot in melee.

They're obviously not what they were a few editions ago, but, they seem usable on paper at least...

As I already described above, I regularly use them as first turn chargers with the Kult of Speed specialist detachment as part of my buggy list. You pay too many points and too many CP for the effect, but it does work decently.

Unless you are facing an enemy with lots of infantry with bad saves, their shooting isn't that good. Most of their value for me comes from being 4+/T5/2W in combat, which is hard to handle for anything but close combat experts. In addition, most weapons that excel at killing them are occupied with killing buggies.

My favorite list... took a lot of tweaking.


I think playing around w bloodaxes and thier new psychic power might be better then pyromaniacs for bombers. It gives my planes and warboss on bike +1 save early on when 18in away. A warboss with a 3+ 4++ save is even more durable especially when he is immune to overwatch and always hits first due to the psychic power (no range) and can fall back and charge again if needed.

I dig.

On principle, though, I'd drop 2 Smasha Guns for Snikrot, because that guy needs to see play.

I will say currently gunwagon cannot shoot twice with da boomer. May be FAQd.

Personally I like pyromaniacs over blood axes, but the list looks fun all the same!

weaver9 wrote:
I will say currently gunwagon cannot shoot twice with da boomer. May be FAQd.

Personally I like pyromaniacs over blood axes, but the list looks fun all the same!

It would be a complete kick in the balls if they screwed orks like that since they gave astra militarum and tau the exact same faq allowing them to use similar relic weapons as the weapon they replaced.

My issue with pyromaniacs is it doesn’t help anyone else. It does provide +1 to the bombs initial hit to make it better but it’s really the eadbutt strat that makes those planes great. Whereas bloodaxe helps everyone (except grots survive) but most importantly makes the warboss on bike a beast with his fall back and charge and immune to overwatch and always strike first. He actually might survive to do combat. It gives a reason for that third wierdboy too. But ya I’m constantly tinkering with it.

gungo wrote:

weaver9 wrote:
I will say currently gunwagon cannot shoot twice with da boomer. May be FAQd.

Personally I like pyromaniacs over blood axes, but the list looks fun all the same!

It would be a complete kick in the balls if they screwed orks like that since they gave astra militarum and tau the exact same faq allowing them to use similar relic weapons as the weapon they replaced.

I think it’s unlikely.

Those kustom jobs seem to be encouraging gun wagons which are seeing literally zero game play.

The fact that those other faqs exist i'd be massively shocked, even given GW's usual mentality towards orks, if it doesnt work.
Especially since the gunwagon desperately needs a weapon worth using. Killkannon is good but not ~160pts good, the flat2 damage and low AP being the main issue. Never understood why a rokkit is stronger than a killkannon.

But getting 4D6 killkannon shots at a slightly longer reach for ~160pts....ok thats pretty good.

Plus it becomes insane under visions of smoke... 4d6 shots with full rerolls.

Has anyone tried the auto hitting zzap gun? Shooting twice with death skull reroll to wound it actually seems decent?

tulun wrote:
Plus it becomes insane under visions of smoke... 4d6 shots with full rerolls.

Has anyone tried the auto hitting zzap gun? Shooting twice with death skull reroll to wound it actually seems decent?

I feel like it costing 1 CP to use something that is relatively easily replicated by taking smasha gunz to be a big issue. The rate of fire also means that at best you only do 6 damage (or 6 mortal wounds if you're REALLY lucky), which is the equivalent of 2 rokkit launchas getting through, not exactly world breaking and IMO, a waste of the premium price of the Gunwagon chassis. The Boomer gets away with what it does since it not only increases the range but the rate of fire by double, not to mention it helping us with the niche of being a good weapon to gun down primaris marines with S8 and 2 damage.

Hey does anyone run chinork warkoptas? And if so how do you represent them on the table top? I feel like they would be really strong transports but I never see them used

Is there any actual benefit from being a monster? Everything sounds negative lol.

Bigdoza wrote:
Is there any actual benefit from being a monster? Everything sounds negative lol.

Vindicare Assassins don't wound you on a 2+.

But outside niche stuff like that, no.

Drdotts wrote:
Hey does anyone run chinork warkoptas? And if so how do you represent them on the table top? I feel like they would be really strong transports but I never see them used

A lot of FW Ork models are currently not in use because of how weirdly they're priced at the moment, and that the FW indices are going to be overhauled in the near future. As far as the current rules go, their main problem is that they kind of run into the same issues that trukks come into, namely that most of our units don't benefit from the use of transports. Even worse, it's not open-topped for whatever reason, so even a shooty unit like tankbustas don't get to shoot the turn they deep strike. To make matters worse, they have a plethora of heavy weapons and no innate rule to ignore the movement penalty to moving and shooting with heavy weapons, so you'd have to waste Moar Dakka on it to make it shoot normally. So overall, I would tell you to save your time and money until we get revamped FW rules.

Bigdoza wrote:
Is there any actual benefit from being a monster? Everything sounds negative lol.

None that I can think of outside of being exempt from any rules giving an attacking unit a buff while attacking INFANTRY or VEHICLES.

Edit:

JNA beat me to it.