Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/05/02 20:51:57
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
tulun wrote: Is the relic worth it on them if I’m doing cult of speed? (5++, T7). I’m wondering if I could get away with just making it a death skull for a 6++. I wish we could take a 3rd relic for 1 CP instead of two... I dunno if I’d leave my warboss at home.
If it gets Brutal but cunning it also on paper doesn’t look too bad vs Da Killa Klaw.
In my experience, if it gets caught in combat or shot at, it's dead either way. I've also stopped giving it warlord traits, as it just incentives people to go after it for an easy VP. In my games, it worked best as deff skulls because you can have it zipping around providing his aura to those who need it and have a fairly reliable melta with random additional wounds from the boomsticks. The assault 2 killa jet profile basically turns him into dual KMB dread with slightly more punch and speed, but less range. I haven't had a chance to play SotB yet, but tomorrow I will be fielding him with the kustom job, for the extra melta range and as charge deterrent.
I've come to the conclusion that the wartrike cannot fill the role of a biker boss and the gap has widened with the big boss stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 20:53:10
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/03 01:15:39
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
tulun wrote: Is the relic worth it on them if I’m doing cult of speed? (5++, T7). I’m wondering if I could get away with just making it a death skull for a 6++. I wish we could take a 3rd relic for 1 CP instead of two... I dunno if I’d leave my warboss at home.
If it gets Brutal but cunning it also on paper doesn’t look too bad vs Da Killa Klaw.
In my experience, if it gets caught in combat or shot at, it's dead either way. I've also stopped giving it warlord traits, as it just incentives people to go after it for an easy VP. In my games, it worked best as deff skulls because you can have it zipping around providing his aura to those who need it and have a fairly reliable melta with random additional wounds from the boomsticks. The assault 2 killa jet profile basically turns him into dual KMB dread with slightly more punch and speed, but less range. I haven't had a chance to play SotB yet, but tomorrow I will be fielding him with the kustom job, for the extra melta range and as charge deterrent.
I've come to the conclusion that the wartrike cannot fill the role of a biker boss and the gap has widened with the big boss stratagem.
Yeah, until he gets a much needed points drop, he's trivially easy to target and kill because of his big base size in comparison to the Biker Boss, AND his damage output is pretty lacklustre. He's basically just there for mech/vehicle lists to get advance and charge, which are already on the lower end of competitive, so until he's costed more appropriately, he's a tough cookie to work out in a list.
On a side note, after playing around with Kustom Jobs a bit more, I've noticed that Forktress (understandably) is the go to option for when people take battlewagons. Is the the Red Rolla worth considering at all?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/03 01:33:54
2020/05/03 06:30:14
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2020/05/03 21:20:58
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
So he's running a joke list against a joke list *golf clap*
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/04 09:34:46
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I think many of the top players are saying that Orks are the real dark horse out there, still I don't know if any Ork horde is a real thing ATM.
In other news, I tried Pampreen list Vs BA 2 times and is a smashing list. Extremely powerful and great in the "current" meta.
Still I want to find a list where Ghaz is a thing. I'm hopeful that they will give him Waaagh to himself , which will boost him a bit. Although I think, imho, without slashing attacks, is not that scary ATM
2020/05/04 10:03:34
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Emicrania wrote: I think many of the top players are saying that Orks are the real dark horse out there, still I don't know if any Ork horde is a real thing ATM.
In other news, I tried Pampreen list Vs BA 2 times and is a smashing list. Extremely powerful and great in the "current" meta.
Still I want to find a list where Ghaz is a thing. I'm hopeful that they will give him Waaagh to himself , which will boost him a bit. Although I think, imho, without slashing attacks, is not that scary ATM
I mean, our armies do tend to be a little atypical by nature. If you build a list of any of the other factions there's a decent enough chance an ork player can come along and blindside you with some of the various types of lists we can slap together.
2020/05/04 10:46:42
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Which is why we perform so poorly at tournaments. The falcon described the situation well last episode of chapter tactics. There are a lot of Ork players that have no idea what to do on the tabletop, beside screaming "Waaagh" and "dakka" and roll casually some dices.
I strongly believe that Orks is one of the best armies out there, that really requires an understanding of the game deeper than most folk want or can. This is NOT a direct attack to nobody specific . Is just that I see many Ork players in my area, or on Reddit, that complain about Orks, but doesn't wanna spend 2 seconds to understand the math and science behind optimal play. I am talking to you, that sit beside the table and roll 2d6 for the shots of a SSAG and than to wound and than damage and claim that everything die. There is a strong difference between an episode and a fact. You need consistency.
Which is why that Goff list, or any list, that is not played and tested, at least , 15/20 times, can't be taken seriously. If you are not Richard Siegler or the like. But In the end, they also claim to choose lists that they have enough reps with. Experience is the best teacher.
We can achieve great things with this army, we just need to be consistent and reliable.
2020/05/04 11:26:10
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
So, yesterday I finally had a game where I could my buggy list super-charged with kustom jobs, using the list with the airwing I posted a couple of days ago. Everything is deff skulls.
I was facing a fairly competitive AM list, with tank commanders, pask, a manticore and a basilisk, a valkyrie, scout sentinels and hordes of guardsmen with mortars and or plasma.
The mission was Eternal War:Crusade, I won the roll-off and took first turn:
Screenshot of the deployment (with 5 MANz in tellyporta off-screen:
Spoiler:
I sunk 10 CP pre-game:
- Da Boomer on gunwagon (assuming periscope works)
- Sparkly bits on morkanaut
- Gyroscopic Whrilygig for SJD - Gork's roar for wartrike
- Da Biggest Boss
- Warphead (Da Jump/Seizure)
- Dread Mob
- Extra Relic (SSAG)
- Tellyporta
Turn One(Orks) I basically moved everything forward as far as I could, just the warboss stayed behind the gunwagon so it couldn't be shot.
One bommer bombs the plasma squad, the other one bombs a mortar squad. I drop one burna bommer onto the 3 mortar squads, the tank commander, the plasma squad and two characters, killing droves of infantry and a comissar.
Due to the scout sentinel, the SJD couldn't line up a shot to the relic tank commander, so I settled for blowing up another one and jumped into the naut's KFF.
Wartrakk is not in range for anything but a scout sentinel, so I decide to hide him behind the naut.
The warphead rolls one for advance and therefore doesn't have enemies in 18". So he jumps some gretchin onto objective 3 to capture it.
As usual, the scrapjet was too slow to threaten something valuable T1, so I'm considering replacing it with another SJD, just for extra the speed and AP. It failed to kill the scout sentinel protecting the relic tank commander.
Naut, wazbomm and SJD team up to destroy a tank commander. Da Boomer, a KBB and SSAG destroy another. The random big shootas and the last KBB spread the pain across the mortar teams to cause as many moral casualties as possible.
Moral wipes the plasma squad and two mortar squads.
Turn One(AM) Not much moving going on, but the valk jumps next to the SSAG and drops an infantry squad.
Relic tank commander just blows away the naut. To be fair, I didn't make a single save, but still...
Mortars and the dropped squad try to get two squads of gretchin out of the way so the valk can kill the big mek, but fail. He piles on the manticore to kill the last four gretchin, but two buggers refuse to die, preventing the valk from shooting the SSAG.
Instead, it opens up on the KBB along with some plasma squads, and leave it at 3.
Basilisk shoots at gunwagon, and takes off 6 wounds. Assorted infantry, sentinels and the last 'russ wipe out most of gretchin sitting on objective 3.
The valk squad charges the SSAG big mek, he kills two in overwatch and them kills another three with his fist.
Moral wipes out the gretchin around the big mek and on objective 3. My opponent uses insane heroism to keep the squad in combat with the big mek as they have lost 7 members this turn.
Turn Two(Orks) At the beginning of the turn, I score objectives 4 and 5 for a total of 3 VP.
Burna bommer bombs a plasma squad and then drops onto the infantry around the basilisk, killing tons of them and damaging the artillery. Everything else moves forward, MANz drop near the russ and the manticore. More gretchin take place of their fallen comrades on objective number 3.
Weirdboyz jumps himself and then fails to cast seizures on the relic tank commander.
Wazbom, SJD and scrapjet try to kill the relic tank commander but only one shot goes through, and three out of five damage get ignored by its 6+++. I'm starting to hate this guy. KBB clear a path for the warboss to the basilisk, Da Boomer does 4 damage to the valkyrie for the lack of better targets, wartrike kills some infantry and deals 10 damage to the manticore with its melta, leaving it at 1 As before, the random guns on all the vehicles kill surprising amounts of infantry.
Warboss charges manticore and destroys it.
Each KBB charges a plasma squad to prevent them from shooting, spiked rams do nothing, as usual.
MANz charge LRBT and take it down to two wounds, one MAN dies in overwatch. Deffkilla wartrike tried to charge the same tank, rolls high enough, but doesn't fit because I placed the MANz like an idiot Gunwagon charges the squad fighting the SSAG to be within 3" of the objective.
Scrapjet drills through a scout sentinel. I actually wished I had the corkscrew in this moment, as it would have allowed me to tag the tank commander behind it.
The big mek deals 3 damage to the guard squad and is free to shoot again, with moral killing the final model.
Turn Two(AM) He scores objective #1 for a total of 2VP
LRBT falls back from the MANz, valk goes into hover and tries to snipe the warboss, manticore shots the scrapjet and does just 2 damage.
We called it quits afterwards, the game being all but decided.
He has the relic tank commander, a LRBT at 4, a manticore at 2 (those three surrounded by SJD, scrapjet, 4 MANz, weirdboy and wartrike), a valkyrie at 8 and a scout sentinel left. Two of his remaining five squads are locked in combat, two more are less than five models.
Meanwhile I have only lost my naut, the bommers and three units of gretchin. I have units sitting on four objectives and might get #6 as well. Even if he manages to clear one objectives, he will be hard pressed to score more than one, alowing me to pull ahead 7:3 and most likely resulting in a tabling next turn.
Lessons learned:
- Even with the periscope, da boomer is not as impressive as it sounds. It's quite resilient, but you basically get a buggy's worth of shooting for 155. I might give it another try though, as it might actually be much better at killing targets that aren't 3+/T8
- The gyroscope thingy wasn't really needed.. In T1 my opponent screened it out through the scout sentinels and in T2 advancing would just have reduced accuracy.
- Bigger Boss is awesome - not just for the 4++, but the extra attack makes him so much more reliable at tankbusting. Missing one out of four attacks means a tank stays alive, missing one of five? Tank still dead.
- Sparkly bits on the naut resulted in at least one more d6 damage rolled. Since it also affects the two rokkits, the KMB and the big shootas, damage output goes up by quite a bit. Sadly, I only got to shoot it once.
- Maniacal Seizure's WC7 and 18" range make it quite hard to cast in a vehicle-based list
- Flying 'eadbut is insane. Despite my opponent trying to avoid the blasts, they did massive amounts of damage. I don't think it's possible to screen against deep striking MANz, regular bombing runs, high speed missiles like biker boss or wartrike and the 'eadbut at the same time.
- MANz instead of warbikers. This actually worked surprisingly well, though I didn't really need warbikers in this game, as AM has on interest in coming closer. - Supa-shootas on wazboms are wasted points.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/04 14:01:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The more experience I gain with this kind of army, the more my opponents struggle with stopping it. Gotta love the high skill ceiling for orks.
As for the SJD, the yellow buggy did very well, as usual. It just felt like it didn't need the deep strike job, since it already has 14" movement and the -1 to hit from advancing completely knocks out the rokkit launcha, reducing the expect amount of hits to one or less, rather than one or two.
Something I might also try is putting squig tires on the scrap jet to get that slow poke to where it's needed. It never seems to get where I want it unless I run it as evil suns.
I also paid close attention to what the things I *didn't* take would have done: The KBB's sizzly rivets job would have resultet in a whooping 1 MW on a tank I killed anyways and one additional dead guardsman. The pyromaniacs sub-culture on the airwing would have caused three additional mortal wounds, but two of those died through moral anyways. On the flip side, deff skulls re-rolls caused one casualty from a burna bommer's supa-shoota and rolled a two for the wazbomm's damage into a five. So neither would have been a good investment.
A final take-away from that game would also be that I spend too many points on pre-game stratagems, I should look into cutting them down by at least 3CP(so 7 to use during the game), maybe more. Probably could gain 2CP by jumping the MANz instead of tellyporting them. The other one would come from either dropping da boomer or the gyro.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/04 15:23:05
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/04 15:29:05
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
SJD's jump-shoot-jump tactic is more for punishing things that are normally difficult to tag like backfield artillery or an exposed character.
My friends are paranoid of that thing now and constantly 360 surround their characters now, which result in them moving a bit slower and having some models out of range sometimes, because the instant theres a character thats not completely covered my SJD snipes it lol.
Definitely isnt an every-turn necessity. 24" range and 14" movement is generally enough to smack a dread or something, and its such a low profile its easy to have it obscured by cover if you dont wanna strat-jump it away afterwords.
i've been toying with grot tanks and grot megatanks. Unfortunately my only 2 games so far has been....disturbingly bad in the RNG department for my opponent (Tau player literally hit ~10% of his shots....i felt bad for him lol).
On paper....sooo...many...KMBs.....rofl
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/05/04 16:24:23
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Jidmah wrote: So, yesterday I finally had a game where I could my buggy list super-charged with kustom jobs, using the list with the airwing I posted a couple of days ago. Everything is deff skulls.
I was facing a fairly competitive AM list, with tank commanders, pask, a manticore and a basilisk, a valkyrie, scout sentinels and hordes of guardsmen with mortars and or plasma.
The mission was Eternal War:Crusade, I won the roll-off and took first turn:
Screenshot of the deployment (with 5 MANz in tellyporta off-screen:
I sunk 10 CP pre-game:
- Da Boomer on gunwagon (assuming periscope works)
- Sparkly bits on morkanaut
- Gyroscopic Whrilygig for SJD - Gork's roar for wartrike
- Da Biggest Boss
- Warphead (Da Jump/Seizure)
- Dread Mob
- Extra Relic (SSAG)
- Tellyporta
Yeah, I agree with you, you way overinvested in pregame strats for not having triple bat or a Brigade. You were down to 3 I think? I don't think Orks can drop too low on CP. We have way too many game winning moves if we have CP in our back pocket. They get our jump on the warboss? He fights while dying and wrecks the unit that hit him. Have a spare CP? You can move shoot move an SJD, possibly killing a unit THEN claiming an objective. Struggling to get these psychic power off? CP reroll.
Gorks roar should probably go (I imagine it's fine, but you gotta make cuts), and with the way you were playing, probably the tellyporta for the MANz. Just Da Jump them instead of a grot squad once screens are cleared. That frees up 3. Nothing else on there, given your list, seems to be a bad take to me, but 6 CP is a bit low.
Although you didn't use the Whirlgig, just the mere threat of it is probably enough to force your opponent to play a way you can possibly exploit. I don't think I'll leave home without it if I take any SJD.
I was thinking the same thing on my Wazbom's. 148 points for the basic model w/ KFF seems really tight to me. 20 points on the Supa Shootas seems nice, but you will average only 2 extra hits per turn anyway, and 20 points goes a long way in an Ork list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 16:49:38
2020/05/04 19:23:51
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: SJD's jump-shoot-jump tactic is more for punishing things that are normally difficult to tag like backfield artillery or an exposed character.
My friends are paranoid of that thing now and constantly 360 surround their characters now, which result in them moving a bit slower and having some models out of range sometimes, because the instant theres a character thats not completely covered my SJD snipes it lol.
Definitely isnt an every-turn necessity. 24" range and 14" movement is generally enough to smack a dread or something, and its such a low profile its easy to have it obscured by cover if you dont wanna strat-jump it away afterwords.
i've been toying with grot tanks and grot megatanks. Unfortunately my only 2 games so far has been....disturbingly bad in the RNG department for my opponent (Tau player literally hit ~10% of his shots....i felt bad for him lol).
On paper....sooo...many...KMBs.....rofl
Im curious on the feel for grot tanks. I looked at the main page and its not listed in the breakdown of good/bad units.
2020/05/04 20:12:01
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
321pts for 8 (max squad) tanks all with KMBs/Shoota
T5/4W/4+/6++ with a LD of 5 (so you absolutely MUST have a warboss/bigmek w/ Follow Me Ladz around or they will flee quite commonly)
Only reason im messing with them at all is quite frankly thats a lot of T5 models with more than 2 wounds and shockingly reliable KMB shots if grotmobz.
Realistically they should be like 40-50pts less for the whole squad purely because of the morale problem. LD5 is just...dumb
Grot Mega Tanks are better imo. Half the cost for T6 and 2 less KMBs. They have the issue of 1/6 chance to not get to shoot but meh it's also a 1/6 to hit on 3s. And 0 LD issues
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 20:28:10
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/05/04 21:03:20
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
If your opponent isn't watching out for it you can use them as character assassination tools.
A lot of aura characters have around 4 wounds. If you drop a bomb on one (1d6) and then flying headbutt within 6" you've just popped their Lord/Leiutenant. I have found that working for two games now, even managing to take out two characters in the same turn.
Won't always be an option, but running 3 bommers, with dragstas and da jump make your opponent really have to think hard about how they screen.
2020/05/04 22:15:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
4 Big shootas with Dakka x3 is 12 shots, 4 normal hits, 2 rerolls for .66 more hits. Against a T4 speese Mehreen that is 3.1 wounds and against the 3+ save that is 1 wound. 4 big shoota boyz = 48pts. you get 4 wounds at T4 with a 6+ save.
Speese Mehreens can take a Heavy bolter on a normal Marine for 22pts, so for 44pts (4 less than Orkz) they can have 2. That nets them 6 shots for 4 hits, 3.1 wounds and against fellow speese mehreens that is 1.55 wounds because of the -1 AP.
Add in the reroll 1s to hit which is literally everywhere in the space marine codex's and you get an even more lopsided exchange. If those same Big shootas had -1 AP they would be exactly the same as heavy bolters, at least on a boyz/tactical comparison.
Then you have the go to argument of all imperial players which is that Big shootas are assault and therefore have more tactical flexibility but that factors more into faction stereotypes in terms of tactics, usually the ork wants to be advancing into the enemy's guns where as the Space Marine is usually happy to camp his heavy weapons in cover and give his Marines a 2+ save. Personally, i think Big shootas should stay the same as far as AP and just double their shots. At the moment I don't see SM players running around with heavy bolters and likewise I don't see ork players running around with big shootas so doubling their ROF would give them 2 dead Marines a turn on average for 48pts, this seems high but hten remember that basically everything in the ork codex is rather flimsy and dies fairly quickly. Or if you don't want to double their shots you could give them 5 shots each, 4 Big Shoota orkz would then be putting out 20 shots, 8ish hits with dakkax3 which gives them 5.33 wounds against a T4 3+ marine for 1.77 damage, This puts them a lot closer to where Heavy bolters are and gives you more choices on factions, suddenly that Reroll 1s on badmoons and +1 in freebootas is even more appealing and no longer does shooting a big shoota seem like a waste of time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As far as Deff Kopta's go. i have about 12 of the little guys, they are a beautiful unit for filling out a FA slot if you need to but have very little going for them. they are fast, pack a decent amount of dakka for their cost but with their 4+ save and bad melee they aren't much of a threat. On top of that, against a good shooting army or an opponent who sneaks into CC, they are basically dead. They suffer from low model count/morale so maxing them out in squads of 5 is a bad idea. However, they are surprisingly quick and plopping them on a 2nd or 3rd floor and shooting the piss out of characters is a lot of fun. Add in the free deep strike and they have a place in games, just not tournaments.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/04 23:59:18
tulun wrote: Gorks roar should probably go (I imagine it's fine, but you gotta make cuts)
Actually, I'd rather cut the boomer than the roar. The additional range had already made a difference in that short game twice, and the flat 6 shots on the skorcha profile is a pretty terrifying overwatch - neither the guardsman nor the sentinel dared to charge it, which would have taken it out of the game. If you do take a wartrike, gork's roar is mandatory IMO.
Although you didn't use the Whirlgig, just the mere threat of it is probably enough to force your opponent to play a way you can possibly exploit. I don't think I'll leave home without it if I take any SJD.
My opponent was mainly protecting himself against SSAG, planes and deep striking MANz, the SJD was denied lining up shots by pure accident. Due to the large base, finding a spot to fit it outside of 9" is no trivial task, but then again most armies don't have as much infantry as the guard does. I will give this job a second chance, but I'm fairly sure that the right thing to do is avoiding jumping whenever possible to get more hits.
What' s the point of Wartrike? Do you use (or plan to use) an aura or did you want just to check the kustom moto-flamer?
As I remember, you' re not the fan of Scrapjets in CC. So just because of Naut?
Tactical flexibility, I guess? I primary use it to line up melta shots. With deff skulls re-rolls you pretty much always get at least one hit in, and even without the double dice for the melta, you get a re-rollable d6 damage at AP-4. When needed, it also clear out infantry very well with boomsticks at half range and skorcha It's basically a super-fast KMB dread with character protection and the option to switch to chaff clearing. Just like KMB dreads, without the deff skulls culture, it wouldn't be worth it. The aura is mostly used for itself to make some insanely long-range charges at things my opponent thought to be out of range. Never do a first turn charge, though, that's just throwing it away. I also use it to help the KBB or scrapjet make opportunistic charges. With it's speed it can easily switch flanks and help a buggy stick to a target that doesn't want to be in combat. And while the scrapjet's melee ability isn't impressive, it's enough to drill through something like a scout sentinel or other light vehicles. You should never advance a morkanaut unless you are desperate, as its main gun is heavy. Lastly, there are few other HQs that actually fit well with the vehicle list. Even with legends available, a KFF mek on bike isn't that much cheaper and a warboss without relic klaw hits like wet noodle. A regular SAG without warlord trait doesn't do that much more damage than the trike, but suffers from LOS issues and requires more gretchin to protect.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/05 05:06:26
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/05 05:15:36
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
321pts for 8 (max squad) tanks all with KMBs/Shoota
T5/4W/4+/6++ with a LD of 5 (so you absolutely MUST have a warboss/bigmek w/ Follow Me Ladz around or they will flee quite commonly)
Only reason im messing with them at all is quite frankly thats a lot of T5 models with more than 2 wounds and shockingly reliable KMB shots if grotmobz.
Realistically they should be like 40-50pts less for the whole squad purely because of the morale problem. LbattD5 is just...dumb
Grot Mega Tanks are better imo. Half the cost for T6 and 2 less KMBs. They have the issue of 1/6 chance to not get to shoot but meh it's also a 1/6 to hit on 3s. And 0 LD issues
I've played a lot of games with Grot Tanks and Grot Mega Tanks before the codex was released. Don't think regular Grot Tanks are worth considering until they get a points drop. They're the same cost as a Killa Kan with worse defensive stats, no melee, and slightly more dakka. They also just feel bad to use even in super fluffy games.
Grot Mega Tank is a lot better and I think its value comes to it being a sturdy platform for Kustom Mega Blasters with surprise melee weapon. I don't believe its the most efficient gun platform for its current points cost, especially when Smasha Guns exist and the Gunwagon is about the same price point.
I'm keen to try them out with Grot Mobs but I think the end result will be they've gone from okay to good, while other units have gone from good to great with Saga.
So, yesterday I finally had a game where I could my buggy list super-charged with kustom jobs, using the list with the airwing I posted a couple of days ago. Everything is deff skulls.
I was facing a fairly competitive AM list, with tank commanders, pask, a manticore and a basilisk, a valkyrie, scout sentinels and hordes of guardsmen with mortars and or plasma.
The mission was Eternal War:Crusade, I won the roll-off and took first turn:
Screenshot of the deployment (with 5 MANz in tellyporta off-screen:
I sunk 10 CP pre-game:
- Da Boomer on gunwagon (assuming periscope works)
- Sparkly bits on morkanaut
- Gyroscopic Whrilygig for SJD - Gork's roar for wartrike
- Da Biggest Boss
- Warphead (Da Jump/Seizure)
- Dread Mob
- Extra Relic (SSAG)
- Tellyporta
Turn One(Orks) I basically moved everything forward as far as I could, just the warboss stayed behind the gunwagon so it couldn't be shot.
One bommer bombs the plasma squad, the other one bombs a mortar squad. I drop one burna bommer onto the 3 mortar squads, the tank commander, the plasma squad and two characters, killing droves of infantry and a comissar.
Due to the scout sentinel, the SJD couldn't line up a shot to the relic tank commander, so I settled for blowing up another one and jumped into the naut's KFF.
Wartrakk is not in range for anything but a scout sentinel, so I decide to hide him behind the naut.
The warphead rolls one for advance and therefore doesn't have enemies in 18". So he jumps some gretchin onto objective 3 to capture it.
As usual, the scrapjet was too slow to threaten something valuable T1, so I'm considering replacing it with another SJD, just for extra the speed and AP. It failed to kill the scout sentinel protecting the relic tank commander.
Naut, wazbomm and SJD team up to destroy a tank commander. Da Boomer, a KBB and SSAG destroy another. The random big shootas and the last KBB spread the pain across the mortar teams to cause as many moral casualties as possible.
Moral wipes the plasma squad and two mortar squads.
Turn One(AM) Not much moving going on, but the valk jumps next to the SSAG and drops an infantry squad.
Relic tank commander just blows away the naut. To be fair, I didn't make a single save, but still...
Mortars and the dropped squad try to get two squads of gretchin out of the way so the valk can kill the big mek, but fail. He piles on the manticore to kill the last four gretchin, but two buggers refuse to die, preventing the valk from shooting the SSAG.
Instead, it opens up on the KBB along with some plasma squads, and leave it at 3.
Basilisk shoots at gunwagon, and takes off 6 wounds. Assorted infantry, sentinels and the last 'russ wipe out most of gretchin sitting on objective 3.
The valk squad charges the SSAG big mek, he kills two in overwatch and them kills another three with his fist.
Moral wipes out the gretchin around the big mek and on objective 3. My opponent uses insane heroism to keep the squad in combat with the big mek as they have lost 7 members this turn.
Turn Two(Orks) At the beginning of the turn, I score objectives 4 and 5 for a total of 3 VP.
Burna bommer bombs a plasma squad and then drops onto the infantry around the basilisk, killing tons of them and damaging the artillery. Everything else moves forward, MANz drop near the russ and the manticore. More gretchin take place of their fallen comrades on objective number 3.
Weirdboyz jumps himself and then fails to cast seizures on the relic tank commander.
Wazbom, SJD and scrapjet try to kill the relic tank commander but only one shot goes through, and three out of five damage get ignored by its 6+++. I'm starting to hate this guy. KBB clear a path for the warboss to the basilisk, Da Boomer does 4 damage to the valkyrie for the lack of better targets, wartrike kills some infantry and deals 10 damage to the manticore with its melta, leaving it at 1 As before, the random guns on all the vehicles kill surprising amounts of infantry.
Warboss charges manticore and destroys it.
Each KBB charges a plasma squad to prevent them from shooting, spiked rams do nothing, as usual.
MANz charge LRBT and take it down to two wounds, one MAN dies in overwatch. Deffkilla wartrike tried to charge the same tank, rolls high enough, but doesn't fit because I placed the MANz like an idiot Gunwagon charges the squad fighting the SSAG to be within 3" of the objective.
Scrapjet drills through a scout sentinel. I actually wished I had the corkscrew in this moment, as it would have allowed me to tag the tank commander behind it.
The big mek deals 3 damage to the guard squad and is free to shoot again, with moral killing the final model.
Turn Two(AM) He scores objective #1 for a total of 2VP
LRBT falls back from the MANz, valk goes into hover and tries to snipe the warboss, manticore shots the scrapjet and does just 2 damage.
We called it quits afterwards, the game being all but decided.
He has the relic tank commander, a LRBT at 4, a manticore at 2 (those three surrounded by SJD, scrapjet, 4 MANz, weirdboy and wartrike), a valkyrie at 8 and a scout sentinel left. Two of his remaining five squads are locked in combat, two more are less than five models.
Meanwhile I have only lost my naut, the bommers and three units of gretchin. I have units sitting on four objectives and might get #6 as well. Even if he manages to clear one objectives, he will be hard pressed to score more than one, alowing me to pull ahead 7:3 and most likely resulting in a tabling next turn.
Lessons learned:
- Even with the periscope, da boomer is not as impressive as it sounds. It's quite resilient, but you basically get a buggy's worth of shooting for 155. I might give it another try though, as it might actually be much better at killing targets that aren't 3+/T8
- The gyroscope thingy wasn't really needed.. In T1 my opponent screened it out through the scout sentinels and in T2 advancing would just have reduced accuracy.
- Bigger Boss is awesome - not just for the 4++, but the extra attack makes him so much more reliable at tankbusting. Missing one out of four attacks means a tank stays alive, missing one of five? Tank still dead.
- Sparkly bits on the naut resulted in at least one more d6 damage rolled. Since it also affects the two rokkits, the KMB and the big shootas, damage output goes up by quite a bit. Sadly, I only got to shoot it once.
- Maniacal Seizure's WC7 and 18" range make it quite hard to cast in a vehicle-based list
- Flying 'eadbut is insane. Despite my opponent trying to avoid the blasts, they did massive amounts of damage. I don't think it's possible to screen against deep striking MANz, regular bombing runs, high speed missiles like biker boss or wartrike and the 'eadbut at the same time.
- MANz instead of warbikers. This actually worked surprisingly well, though I didn't really need warbikers in this game, as AM has on interest in coming closer. - Supa-shootas on wazboms are wasted points.
The Astra Militarum armies deployment is all over the place. If an ork player can charge a tank commander at turn 2 then you're really doing something wrong. The Astra Militarum army got enough gaurdsmen to screen more effectively and keep the tank commanders, pask, basilisk and manticore shooting for a few turns. Yes you would be able to take a few objectives turn 1 and 2 but at turn 3 the ork army should be starting to crumble. But it is nice to simply test stuff and see what works.
I don't get the morkanaut. Isn't he to slow to keep up with the rest of the army? Isn't he a big point sink?
2020/05/05 07:53:26
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
shogun wrote: The Astra Militarum armies deployment is all over the place. If an ork player can charge a tank commander at turn 2 then you're really doing something wrong. The Astra Militarum army got enough gaurdsmen to screen more effectively and keep the tank commanders, pask, basilisk and manticore shooting for a few turns. Yes you would be able to take a few objectives turn 1 and 2 but at turn 3 the ork army should be starting to crumble. But it is nice to simply test stuff and see what works.
Here is a picture during his movement phase in turn 2, after he fell back from the MANz:
Spoiler:
Including morale, I killed more than 60 guardsmen in turn one, so most of his screen was gone. The two burna bommers plus all those big shoota and rivet cannon shots really did a number on them.
The 5 guardsmen between the KBB and trike in the middle are all that were left after T1, and he had another two scout sentinels set up to block deep strikes, one where the scrapjet in the back is and one near the trike. Even if the MANz would have been denied by advancing either (or both) of the mortar teams, the wartrike would have gotten the charge, and there would have been another unit of gretchin around.
I don't get the morkanaut. Isn't he to slow to keep up with the rest of the army? Isn't he a big point sink?
You are probably assuming this is an assault army. It's not, it's an almost pure shooting army, and the naut has 24-36" reach on his gun which does decent work and doesn't degrade. The klaw is just a doomsday clock forcing my opponent's to shoot at T8/3+ instead of T6/4+ That said, a naut moves 8", so if you deploy the buggies next to him they have no trouble staying within KFF range when they move 10-14". If you don't fail every single safe like I did this game, it even soaks a fair amount of damage. Usually he makes it badly wounded to T2 and then dies. He still destroyed a tank commander with his shooting. If I would field three buggies instead, they wouldn't do any more damage, but they'll die much faster.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/05 07:55:55
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/05/05 11:41:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Oh yeah for sure if you are trying to maximize neither grot tanks are worth it. All 3 of the grot vehicles are kinda overpriced (grot mega tank is the tamest of the 3 but its still relatively squishy for a ~150pt model). Its just amusing. Its good enough to have fun with, that many KMBs is quite rude. TBH im surprised KMBs didnt go up in price in the last CA, the Gets Hot is the only drawback vs rokkits and orks really dont care since its not a "Model is Slain" rule nor does it care for minus to hits, yet it does AP3 and D6 vs the more expensive Rokkit ap2 3D. Yeah they dont benefit from Boomboyz but quite frankly....dont care. I dont see that kulture making rokkits superior to kmbs, more like on par (lack of rerolls kinda hurts boomboyz)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/05 11:44:35
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/05/05 12:35:39
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Jidmah wrote: So, yesterday I finally had a game where I could my buggy list super-charged with kustom jobs, using the list with the airwing I posted a couple of days ago. Everything is deff skulls.
Spoiler:
I was facing a fairly competitive AM list, with tank commanders, pask, a manticore and a basilisk, a valkyrie, scout sentinels and hordes of guardsmen with mortars and or plasma.
The mission was Eternal War:Crusade, I won the roll-off and took first turn:
Screenshot of the deployment (with 5 MANz in tellyporta off-screen:
I sunk 10 CP pre-game:
- Da Boomer on gunwagon (assuming periscope works)
- Sparkly bits on morkanaut
- Gyroscopic Whrilygig for SJD - Gork's roar for wartrike
- Da Biggest Boss
- Warphead (Da Jump/Seizure)
- Dread Mob
- Extra Relic (SSAG)
- Tellyporta
Turn One(Orks) I basically moved everything forward as far as I could, just the warboss stayed behind the gunwagon so it couldn't be shot.
One bommer bombs the plasma squad, the other one bombs a mortar squad. I drop one burna bommer onto the 3 mortar squads, the tank commander, the plasma squad and two characters, killing droves of infantry and a comissar.
Due to the scout sentinel, the SJD couldn't line up a shot to the relic tank commander, so I settled for blowing up another one and jumped into the naut's KFF.
Wartrakk is not in range for anything but a scout sentinel, so I decide to hide him behind the naut.
The warphead rolls one for advance and therefore doesn't have enemies in 18". So he jumps some gretchin onto objective 3 to capture it.
As usual, the scrapjet was too slow to threaten something valuable T1, so I'm considering replacing it with another SJD, just for extra the speed and AP. It failed to kill the scout sentinel protecting the relic tank commander.
Naut, wazbomm and SJD team up to destroy a tank commander. Da Boomer, a KBB and SSAG destroy another. The random big shootas and the last KBB spread the pain across the mortar teams to cause as many moral casualties as possible.
Moral wipes the plasma squad and two mortar squads.
Turn One(AM) Not much moving going on, but the valk jumps next to the SSAG and drops an infantry squad.
Relic tank commander just blows away the naut. To be fair, I didn't make a single save, but still...
Mortars and the dropped squad try to get two squads of gretchin out of the way so the valk can kill the big mek, but fail. He piles on the manticore to kill the last four gretchin, but two buggers refuse to die, preventing the valk from shooting the SSAG.
Instead, it opens up on the KBB along with some plasma squads, and leave it at 3.
Basilisk shoots at gunwagon, and takes off 6 wounds. Assorted infantry, sentinels and the last 'russ wipe out most of gretchin sitting on objective 3.
The valk squad charges the SSAG big mek, he kills two in overwatch and them kills another three with his fist.
Moral wipes out the gretchin around the big mek and on objective 3. My opponent uses insane heroism to keep the squad in combat with the big mek as they have lost 7 members this turn.
Turn Two(Orks) At the beginning of the turn, I score objectives 4 and 5 for a total of 3 VP.
Burna bommer bombs a plasma squad and then drops onto the infantry around the basilisk, killing tons of them and damaging the artillery. Everything else moves forward, MANz drop near the russ and the manticore. More gretchin take place of their fallen comrades on objective number 3.
Weirdboyz jumps himself and then fails to cast seizures on the relic tank commander.
Wazbom, SJD and scrapjet try to kill the relic tank commander but only one shot goes through, and three out of five damage get ignored by its 6+++. I'm starting to hate this guy. KBB clear a path for the warboss to the basilisk, Da Boomer does 4 damage to the valkyrie for the lack of better targets, wartrike kills some infantry and deals 10 damage to the manticore with its melta, leaving it at 1 As before, the random guns on all the vehicles kill surprising amounts of infantry.
Warboss charges manticore and destroys it.
Each KBB charges a plasma squad to prevent them from shooting, spiked rams do nothing, as usual.
MANz charge LRBT and take it down to two wounds, one MAN dies in overwatch. Deffkilla wartrike tried to charge the same tank, rolls high enough, but doesn't fit because I placed the MANz like an idiot Gunwagon charges the squad fighting the SSAG to be within 3" of the objective.
Scrapjet drills through a scout sentinel. I actually wished I had the corkscrew in this moment, as it would have allowed me to tag the tank commander behind it.
The big mek deals 3 damage to the guard squad and is free to shoot again, with moral killing the final model.
Turn Two(AM) He scores objective #1 for a total of 2VP
LRBT falls back from the MANz, valk goes into hover and tries to snipe the warboss, manticore shots the scrapjet and does just 2 damage.
We called it quits afterwards, the game being all but decided.
He has the relic tank commander, a LRBT at 4, a manticore at 2 (those three surrounded by SJD, scrapjet, 4 MANz, weirdboy and wartrike), a valkyrie at 8 and a scout sentinel left. Two of his remaining five squads are locked in combat, two more are less than five models.
Meanwhile I have only lost my naut, the bommers and three units of gretchin. I have units sitting on four objectives and might get #6 as well. Even if he manages to clear one objectives, he will be hard pressed to score more than one, alowing me to pull ahead 7:3 and most likely resulting in a tabling next turn.
Lessons learned:
- Even with the periscope, da boomer is not as impressive as it sounds. It's quite resilient, but you basically get a buggy's worth of shooting for 155. I might give it another try though, as it might actually be much better at killing targets that aren't 3+/T8
- The gyroscope thingy wasn't really needed.. In T1 my opponent screened it out through the scout sentinels and in T2 advancing would just have reduced accuracy.
- Bigger Boss is awesome - not just for the 4++, but the extra attack makes him so much more reliable at tankbusting. Missing one out of four attacks means a tank stays alive, missing one of five? Tank still dead.
- Sparkly bits on the naut resulted in at least one more d6 damage rolled. Since it also affects the two rokkits, the KMB and the big shootas, damage output goes up by quite a bit. Sadly, I only got to shoot it once.
- Maniacal Seizure's WC7 and 18" range make it quite hard to cast in a vehicle-based list
- Flying 'eadbut is insane. Despite my opponent trying to avoid the blasts, they did massive amounts of damage. I don't think it's possible to screen against deep striking MANz, regular bombing runs, high speed missiles like biker boss or wartrike and the 'eadbut at the same time.
- MANz instead of warbikers. This actually worked surprisingly well, though I didn't really need warbikers in this game, as AM has on interest in coming closer. - Supa-shootas on wazboms are wasted points.
Nice write up, thanks for sharing. Is that Tabletop Sim, or something else?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/05 12:36:53
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
2020/05/05 13:22:44
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
r_squared wrote: Nice write up, thanks for sharing. Is that Tabletop Sim, or something else?
Tabletop Simulator on steam using BCB's construction site table and "Complete Orks Army Warhammer 40k 8th Edition".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/05 13:25:03
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
To be fair, I didn't make a single save, but still...
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
