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 Vineheart01 wrote:
wouldnt be surprised at all.

Grukk seems to be the only character thats not limited edition that doesnt have a 40k dataslate, but exists in other 40k formats. Would not be shocked at all if he just switched to the only open-play only character (minus custom crap)

But, hes also yet another Goff character so highly doubt anyone would care if hes in normal 40k.

Goffs might be ok if he was a cheap reroll 1s to wound aura (shooting and melee). Making all those str 4 atks hits from boy blobs better.
(and they fix ghaz waaggh)

If you look at the white dwarf preview it says he’s only for open and narrative play.

Bonebreakers are heart breakers for me because they are so close to being competitive. if they dished out more damage or were a 2+ save model they would be competitive. As it stands my favorite memory of using them was when I used the tellyporta strat in a tournament on a skwadron of Bonebreakers loaded with boyz and a warboss who happened to be equipped with Rezmekka's Redder armour. All 3 made it into CC with several enemy units including a bunch of enemy characters. Turn 3 they were still in CC it was a massacre when I informed him that I did D3 mortal wounds to everyone within 1" of my transport on a 4+ Good times.

But like I said, they just cost a bit too much to do 6 +D6 attacks on the charge.

Wakshaani wrote:
What if you run three of 'em? I mean, only one could get the upgrade, but three big ol' Toughness 8, high wound models is gonna go from "Distraction Carnifex" to "I … have got to deal with that, ASAP."

Right?

Actually, there is absolutely not need to deal with a gunwagon quickly - quite the opposite. Pretty much any buggy should be a higher target priority for your opponent than da boomer, wagons without kustom job can just be ignored altogether.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if you just want the T8 profile bonebreakers are better. Bonebreakers are pretty cheap for their attack profile, long as they dont have a super expensive unit inside they tend to not draw attention right away and mulch through things.

Gunwagon wasnt even thought about for ork lists until Da Booma showed up. And that kustom zapp gun is pathetic.

I actually think the Gunwagon is probably better given it's slightly cheaper, and leans into shooting (cause Orks are a shooting army... thanks 8th edition). That 4+ explosion sucks for positioning, but you could also use it as a weapon.

I could see some fun games where you actually charge a gunwagon into CC that's nearly dead just to fish for that 4+ explosion. Just field an army of mortal wound exploding death.

A gunwagon can't have a deff rolla and requires you to move at half speed to benefit from periscope. It will never be near an enemy, and I highly doubt that it can help any ranged unit with positioning, as you are basically giving up the one reason why you paid 20 extra for a transport you can't even shoot out of.

As for the explosion, I don't feel it being a problem. If someone focuses down a gunwagon first instead of all the more deadly and easier to kill vehicles in my list, it's their loss really and the 4+ can be re-rolled. It get's left in the dust after turn 1 anyways, so the problem is gone afterwards.

The only problem i see with the 4+ to explode and gun wagons the fact that a number of factions have no problem killing 2 gun wagons a turn and if they get 1st turn they can theoretically blow at least one up in your deployment zone. I mean, its still a 4+ and the enemy just wasted a turn not killing better targets though so its a wash.

 Vineheart01 wrote:


But, hes also yet another Goff character so highly doubt anyone would care if hes in normal 40k.

Probably the most important thing. I almost got excited for a second, too.

tulun wrote:
If you look at the white dwarf preview it says he’s only for open and narrative play.

SemperMortis wrote:
The only problem i see with the 4+ to explode and gun wagons the fact that a number of factions have no problem killing 2 gun wagons a turn and if they get 1st turn they can theoretically blow at least one up in your deployment zone. I mean, its still a 4+ and the enemy just wasted a turn not killing better targets though so its a wash.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to do, I'm saying that it's a bad decision to do so. Any shooting that can kill a gunwagon might as well kill two SJD/scrapjets, a naut or a plane instead, all of which deal vastly more damage than the single looted LRBT.

It'd be nice if the open topped ork vehicles got a rule akin to the similar space marine vehicle, letting them disembark after the vehicle moves. Though rather then stopping us from assaulting the unit inside counts as having advanced for instance.

SemperMortis wrote:
Bonebreakers are heart breakers for me because they are so close to being competitive. if they dished out more damage or were a 2+ save model they would be competitive. As it stands my favorite memory of using them was when I used the tellyporta strat in a tournament on a skwadron of Bonebreakers loaded with boyz and a warboss who happened to be equipped with Rezmekka's Redder armour. All 3 made it into CC with several enemy units including a bunch of enemy characters. Turn 3 they were still in CC it was a massacre when I informed him that I did D3 mortal wounds to everyone within 1" of my transport on a 4+ Good times.

But like I said, they just cost a bit too much to do 6 +D6 attacks on the charge.

A Blood Axe Bonebreaker w/ Forktress gets a 2+/5++ outside of 18" Not too bad actually if you're looking to try out Clever Talk.

Jidmah wrote:
A gunwagon can't have a deff rolla and requires you to move at half speed to benefit from periscope. It will never be near an enemy, and I highly doubt that it can help any ranged unit with positioning, as you are basically giving up the one reason why you paid 20 extra for a transport you can't even shoot out of.

As for the explosion, I don't feel it being a problem. If someone focuses down a gunwagon first instead of all the more deadly and easier to kill vehicles in my list, it's their loss really and the 4+ can be re-rolled. It get's left in the dust after turn 1 anyways, so the problem is gone afterwards.

I think Stephen what's his name said he piloted them this way in the Art of War podcast. I could see it being worth a lark. Deploying the Gunwagon aggressively, I think it could help your FG get to the middle, where they will probably be within range of something turn 2. Worse comes to worse, the FG loot it for a 3+ save and get some distance when it pops.


I'd be terrified of putting too much near it turn 1, d6 mortal wounds can wreck a lot of gak.

Hasn't someone here tried that list out?

tulun wrote:
If you look at the white dwarf preview it says he’s only for open and narrative play.

Ya I know orks are like the only faction with a plastic in production named character without rules for 40k.
It’s silly they didn’t even attempt to include him for matches play if they were going into the efffort of creating a sheet..

But like you said even as a goff he likely wouldn’t see play unless he was a cheap warboss with reroll wounds aura.

gungo wrote:

tulun wrote:
If you look at the white dwarf preview it says he’s only for open and narrative play.

Ya I know orks are like the only faction with a plastic in production named character without rules for 40k.
It’s silly they didn’t even attempt to include him for matches play if they were going into the efffort of creating a sheet..

But like you said even as a goff he likely wouldn’t see play unless he was a cheap warboss with reroll wounds aura.

Almost, there was that plastic raven guard character that came out in a box with Tau. Though for the life of me I can't remember where he is. Jump pack and thunder hammer if I recall.

Wasnt that 7th edition and didn’t they stop making that boxset?
Grukk boys boxset is literally still produced.

I thought they discontinued it and just shoved him in as the non-named character for kill team?

Also, do we know when the White Dwarf will be available? It does say he was designed for open and narrative, but if he has points and it doesn't say he's for open/narrative only he's still good to use right?

There is a tiny minuscule chance he is playable in matched games. He also has a new rule or strat that’s underneath his datasheet. Odds are he won’t be useful as goff because let’s be honest the biggest boss strat is still likely better. He would need some useful specialized aura abilities for him to have a decent niche. Which is why I think he should reroll 1s to wound.

But odds are he’s narrative only

Steven Pampreen has been playing weird-ass lists and doing extremely well with them all edition, and pretty much anyone who has tried to copy them fell flat on their face.

I think many of his uncommon choices are a combination of adjusting the army to his specific play style and trying to catch other high-profile players off-guard.

Or, in other words, he is way beyond our level

So been looking into ork lists. I have 90 boyz but 60 are not painted and honestly, not a huge fan of moving them around every game. What are some good lists that are not boy heavy?

Problem I find is even lists that are not boy heavy tend to be grot heavy.

You can do something like
battalion detachment
Outrider detachment (buggy spam)
Airwing

That’s “only” 40 grots but it’s also low on CP.

Yeah it’s basically impossible to avoid fielding lots of models. You need CP, so at 2k, you’re probably doing double bat if not triple bat, which means 60-90 Grots.

The nice thing though is that Grots are legitimately amazing and they also are far less exhausting to play, as they don’t require as much finesse in how you play them.

Darn, thanks though! I do have 30 grots so I can run them for CP and just fluff wise, they're the mek's little helpers. I just really love the idea of a speed or dread waaugh. Shame it doesn't do well.

It's funny though. Sometimes I'll run 1k-1.5k of buggies/battlewagon and it absolutely terrifies people the first turn and they complain when they crash into w.e I'm running at. Then those fears turn to laughter as they immediately kill all my cars lol.

Keramory wrote:
Darn, thanks though! I do have 30 grots so I can run them for CP and just fluff wise, they're the mek's little helpers. I just really love the idea of a speed or dread waaugh. Shame it doesn't do well.

It's funny though. Sometimes I'll run 1k-1.5k of buggies/battlewagon and it absolutely terrifies people the first turn and they complain when they crash into w.e I'm running at. Then those fears turn to laughter as they immediately kill all my cars lol.

Cover them with more KFF baby.

Speed Waaagh actually probably does alright, but the biggest problem is that buggies bases are stupidly big. Unless you play without much terrain, they are going to get in the way of each other anyway. You have to mix it up a bit (fielding planes, deff koptas, bikes, Gork/Mork) just so you can actually move your army around.

Grots are amazing for holding your backline anyway, and holding objectives with Obsec. That army will want that piece anyway, might as well do it for cheap.

The issue with the buggies is they dont do much damage on the charge and then a simple fallback and shoot blows them up.

Don't get me wrong, I was annoying as heck... but that only lasted for a few turns lol

Admittingly it's not like I'm running all scraps and dragstas. I own only 1 of every car for the set... and I'm fully aware running the stupid food truck is purposely playing horribly. Even at it's most ideal rolls that thing is garbage lol.

you want an idea how bad that thing is?
back when it was 140pts i misread it as "each of the crew has" so i literally gave it 5x of the non-big squiglauncha and it still sucked balls lol.

RoF is trash, ap is trash, damage is trash, the "poison" is pointless, and the mine is laughably easy to avoid.

I think the only joy I had out of the cars is facing IG, where the burna car actually killed a model with its 2d6 Molotov. There's just some weapons I question if the rolls are worth it lol.

Yeah, i'm going to be honest I only regularly use three of the new vehicles.


The KBB for it's cheapness and versatility
The Scrapjet for it's jack of all trades loadout
And the Shokkjump for it's accuracy and quality

the other two are just in this weird limbo where they don't stand out from the rest of the ork roster. And the wartrike is pretty much just a gimmick for when I want to make vehicles advance and charge like dreads or bonebreakers otherwise a bikerboss is better in all respects.

Snazzwagon is basically trying to do the same thing the KBB does, but it does it way worse because of the -1 to hit perk. Being hard to hit doesnt mean anything when you hit like a wet noodle.
I dont even know what the squigbuggy was supposed to do. Its...just so randomly equipped...

I feel like they made to many buggies.
A melee one
A long range multi shot low ap one
A mid range high ap one with a few shots
And maybe a mid str mid ap 2 damage one w short range
The wartrike should have been a warboss on bike version

I bought them all except the squigbuggy. I’ll get it someday

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Snazzwagon is basically trying to do the same thing the KBB does, but it does it way worse because of the -1 to hit perk. Being hard to hit doesnt mean anything when you hit like a wet noodle.
I dont even know what the squigbuggy was supposed to do. Its...just so randomly equipped...

I think it was meant to be the equivalent to the imperial rocket launcher. Able to wound infantry or heavier targets when needed. But the issue is no one takes those these days due to that versatility being weighed down by a laughable price tag. I'd rather just take a KBB for infantry work or a dragsta for any heavy work. Each noticeably cheaper and better at their respective jobs. But in the current environment giving orks any additional anti infantry is laughable, we're already over saturated with that due to ork boyz and almost every ork vehicle having several big shootas bolted on (god I hope GW gives them a 2 or 3 pt drop.)

Yeah, it definitely limits the design space since the niches for each one is already filled. The Snazzwagon, as mentioned, is beat by the KBB, and the Squigbuggy pretty much doesn't know what it wants to do.

I feel the Squigbuggy may as well be a support unit, given that it's a food truck. Make it so that units that it successfully wounds cannot fire overwatch that turn since they're busy dealing all the rampant squigs biting about. Bam, now you would consider throwing at least one in a list.

Which when you read through the description page of the codex is exactly what it often does. Lobbing gak at the enemy that has them gagging, slipping or stumbling about. If it gave a debuff of some variety, be it no overwatch as lenses are covered in squig guano or a minus to hit, a strike last or a handful of other utility effects. It would indeed find a lot of homes in lists regardless of it's actual firepower.

Side note, anyone think we need more actual squig units in the ork army? I love to use some squigs mixed in with the boyz mobs to give it more flash but it'd be nice to have a beast or swarm unit to use.

cody.d. wrote:
Which when you read through the description page of the codex is exactly what it often does. Lobbing gak at the enemy that has them gagging, slipping or stumbling about. If it gave a debuff of some variety, be it no overwatch as lenses are covered in squig guano or a minus to hit, a strike last or a handful of other utility effects. It would indeed find a lot of homes in lists regardless of it's actual firepower.

Side note, anyone think we need more actual squig units in the ork army? I love to use some squigs mixed in with the boyz mobs to give it more flash but it'd be nice to have a beast or swarm unit to use.

100%. I'm pretty sure that half of the reason why Snakebitez comes off as so bland is because GW don't really know how to emphasize their "old ways is best" within the current units available in the Ork codex, given that the majority are tech-oriented in some way. If we had more squig options (or squiggoth specifically), I think they could play off Snakebitez more. Even grots could have more of a role than just cheap battalion filler and objective holders, either them or Runtherders acting as minderz for the squigs in some way.