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Evil sun warboss with da biggest strat and Killa relic klaw does things no space marine captain can: you can da jump him and reliably charge something and delete it, even if it is hidden, because infantry can charge through walls.
The extra wound and 4++ enable you to alternatively charge a unit with a lot of overwatch, or to spend more effort killing the warboss (if he stays behind his wall as a result of a failed charge, he may even survive if your opponent is playing Very cagey)
It forces the opponent to deploy In a certain way, just like burna bombers.

Now I do think the warboss should have that as default profile, and we should not pay 1 pc for that profile

Still say getting a 5+ save on the Boys, and a 1 point price drop, is worth the -1 attack.

The problem isn't the damage the boys dish out, it's that they crumble to any sort of pushback. Overwatch is bad enough, but basic Primaris marines will always, *always* crunch Orks if charged. Hitting on 3+, wounding on 4+, but only saving on 6+ means even a unit of 5 Primaris are cutting down 5 boys a fight phase, plus more from Overwatch and/or bolt pistols,

As it stands now, a boy (wounded on a 4+, save only on a 6) and a Guardsman (Wounded on a 3+, saves on a 5+) have the same durability.

That ain't right.

Give the boys a 5+ save, drop the cost a point, and take off 1 attack, and they'll be much, much heartier than they are right now.

(Seriously, as it stands, 20 Guardsmen vs 11 Ork boyz? I'm gonna give it to the Guard more often than not, in melee or at range. That's just *weird*!"

It'll be interesting to see how the new edition changes things up, if it does at all. There will naturally be things certain armies benefit more from than others, but hopefully it'll become a game of choices and decisions beyond which army book you picked up.

I've long had the opinion that PKs should be d6 damage and killsaws flat 3, this would fix pretty much all units who can carry them.
That said, considering how those are part of the bespoken rules, it's unlikely to change due to 9th edition, as is any other number that is written in our codex.

What parts of the general would help orks?

- The announced CP rules. Apparently you have to pay for additional detachments, and orks are one of the armies who can easily fill up brigades with useful units. Sure, we would have less CP than we do now, but you also need to pay less tax for gretchin and HQs you don't actually need, so the army would have more inherent punch. It also means less combos for soup-armies, which benefits us in many match-ups.
- Cover. Currently basically no ork units benefits from cover out of 0 AP guns shooting gretchin in cover. Having cover that actually works for us would increase the durability for things like lootas, tankbustas, walkers, gunwagons and more. It's probably not going back to 5th edition awesomeness, but one can wish.
- Planes. Orks have a bunch of decent planes, rules that help them would help them as well. However, since eldar and space marine fliers have been causing trouble for most of the edition, I doubt that they would be getting better.
- Assault phase. Any change that would make charges less of a gamble would help, as would any nerf to overwatch.
- Fight phase. A change I would love to see is dropping all the pile-in and "who can fight" nonsense and just allow the entire unit to fight if it is within 1" of the enemy unit, with some sort of fail-safe added to prevent conga-lines.
- Transports. As stated before, orks have a long history of units charging out of transports. If this comes back, it could revitalize all those trukk and battlewagon strategies we used to have.

Not sure if this has been brought up before (lots of thread to read through still) but I think that the "hordes" being mentioned by GW could refer to a unit over a certain size..?

In other words a boyz squad that is less than let us say 15 is no longer considered a "horde" and anything more than 15 would be considered a horde. No source, just my thoughts on it

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
Not sure if this has been brought up before (lots of thread to read through still) but I think that the "hordes" being mentioned by GW could refer to a unit over a certain size..?

In other words a boyz squad that is less than let us say 15 is no longer considered a "horde" and anything more than 15 would be considered a horde. No source, just my thoughts on it

That's the logical route. Tying it into keyword just makes it silly and illogical. 5 boyz just as easy to hit as 30 and easier than 5 terminators would be spectacularly stupid even for gw rules.

 Jidmah wrote:
I've long had the opinion that PKs should be d6 damage and killsaws flat 3, this would fix pretty much all units who can carry them.

- Fight phase. A change I would love to see is dropping all the pile-in and "who can fight" nonsense and just allow the entire unit to fight if it is within 1" of the enemy unit, with some sort of fail-safe added to prevent conga-lines.

100% ! That would speed up the fight phase when large units are involved, which currently takes far too long (its combination of dice buckets, consolidation and pile ins, all three actions put together, that take such a long time)

A fail safe could be + time saver could be "all models within 9 inches of a single, designated model 1 inch away from an enemy model, can (and must) make thir attacks". Piling in towards enemy units after having made your attacks can't be skipped though can it ?

They could go the route of some other games to prevent congalines where unless you are in a bunker sort of terrain your entire unit has to be within X of itself (basically forcing units to be in a ball, as the fartest left/right models have to be say 8" from each other...obviously based on model count/base size)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They could go the route of some other games to prevent congalines where unless you are in a bunker sort of terrain your entire unit has to be within X of itself (basically forcing units to be in a ball, as the fartest left/right models have to be say 8" from each other...obviously based on model count/base size)

I mean there's already precedent with certain auras like the KFF, and frankly that would rein in some of the ridiculous gunlines that SM have, amongst other factions. Makes it so support characters can only realistically buff one or 2 units max, depending on their size, rather than a CM is right now which can potentially buff pretty much half their army.

Blast might also be something like getting a hit dice for every model in the unit, up to X, similar to how bombs work.

 Jidmah wrote:
Blast might also be something like getting a hit dice for every model in the unit, up to X, similar to how bombs work.

That makes sense, gives you a number cap while still making it better than just rolling for however many D6 shots you get.

Wakshaani wrote:
Still say getting a 5+ save on the Boys, and a 1 point price drop, is worth the -1 attack.

The problem isn't the damage the boys dish out, it's that they crumble to any sort of pushback. Overwatch is bad enough, but basic Primaris marines will always, *always* crunch Orks if charged. Hitting on 3+, wounding on 4+, but only saving on 6+ means even a unit of 5 Primaris are cutting down 5 boys a fight phase, plus more from Overwatch and/or bolt pistols,

As it stands now, a boy (wounded on a 4+, save only on a 6) and a Guardsman (Wounded on a 3+, saves on a 5+) have the same durability.

That ain't right.

Give the boys a 5+ save, drop the cost a point, and take off 1 attack, and they'll be much, much heartier than they are right now.

(Seriously, as it stands, 20 Guardsmen vs 11 Ork boyz? I'm gonna give it to the Guard more often than not, in melee or at range. That's just *weird*!"

without getting into buffs and klan/regiment bonuses. 20 Guardsmen cost 80pts, 11 boyz is 77. In CC the guardsmen have 20 attacks for 10 hits and about 3.3 wounds due to hitting on 4s and wounding on 5s, this results in 2.75ish dead boyz. The 11 boyz get 33 attacks for 16.5 hits and 11 wounds which results in 7.3ish dead guardsmen. Guard lose 29pts, Orkz lose 19pts So boyz are definitely better in CC, but not by an appreciable amount. The big difference is ranged combat. Those 20 guardsmen get 20 shots for 10 hits and 3.33 wounds at half range its 6.66 wound. Boyz lose 21-42pts depending on range. the 11 boyz get 11 shots at 12' for 3.66 hits (50% chance of 1 extra shot for a 1/3rd chance to hit) and 2.44 wounds. Those 2.44 wounds after saves become 1.62 damage. So between 4-8pts of dead guard.

So boyz are better at CC but IG are SIGNIFICANTLY better at ranged.

Beside the mayhem of the 9th previews (omg that C'Tan model!), I had a couple of games Sunday Vs hard counters.
The 2nd best AD mech player last year with 30 electro priests with 3++ going 2++ with stratagem, 3 shooting boats and a bunch of plasma dudes. He wrecked me because I deployed wrong and allowed him to munch thru 20-30 grots per turns , allowing him to proc the 3++. I had one shot T2 where I gambled a bit but the dices failed me completely and I had just the time to clock him out of T4 with a minor loss.
The other game was Vs 3 Caladius plus the named custodes on foot, 3 ad mech shooting boats, 3 basilisk and a wyvern. So a crapton of shooting this time. T1 I lost: the gunwagon, 5 mek gunz, 2 planes and 30 Grots. I had basically no gunz left. I was about to give up right after that, but I managed to get a couple of wrap and get in 3 charges that allowed me to keep a grot shield in combat in order to save the Flashgitz and Ghaz pushing him back. The SSAG blowed up 2 Caladius.
The rest of the game was very fun and tight and I managed a win by 2 points, mostly because I messed up T4 getting greedy Vs a wyvern . He was on 1 W and he healed that fething thing 3d3!

In both matches I went second and both matches proved that the list is good, but Vs hard pressing lists or über shooting, being second ain't no fun. Ghaz MUST have advance and charges. Without it can't be used at the highest tables

 Jidmah wrote:
Blast might also be something like getting a hit dice for every model in the unit, up to X, similar to how bombs work.

Didn't the video already say max shots vs horde units?

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Blast might also be something like getting a hit dice for every model in the unit, up to X, similar to how bombs work.

Didn't the video already say max shots vs horde units?

Yes, but there are multiple ways to archive that, and I don't think giving units HORDE keywords would be a good alternative.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Blast might also be something like getting a hit dice for every model in the unit, up to X, similar to how bombs work.

Didn't the video already say max shots vs horde units?

Yes, but there are multiple ways to archive that, and I don't think giving units HORDE keywords would be a good alternative.

I doubt horde is keyword rather than unit size. But bonus was told. Max shots. Battle cannon 6. Plasma cannon 3. Only question is is horde 10, 15, 20, 21 or what.

Sure, if you want to assume the content of a promotional video as RAW

although a horde keyword could give some benefits too....
allowing them to utilize cover even if not all models are in... swarming the enemy in CC, so maybe 2" radius to attack instead of 1" etc etc

I hope GW have thought it through, because I see potential holes there. If it is a number like tneva82 mentionned, then people will take 19 model squads, or 9 model squads to counter being a horde.
If a horde keyword, then what about when you just have 8 or 5 models remaining, does your unit still count as a horde ? If it does then it is a bit stupid isn't it...

But who knows, perhaps a good system has been set up by GW, ?

Many of the units that can be 20+ gets bonus at that size. Will many orks field units of 19 to avoid the blast effect? Anybody see 20 big ork units to begin with?

I doubt 10 is the treshhold. 10 isn't exactly horde. I would be betting more of 20+ and then it's often matter of bonus or avoidance of blast. 19 orks is lot less dangerous than 20.

Man there are some poeple in this forum that just spread negativity all the time... I don´t really get it.

We KNOW absolutely nothing of 9th, beside glimpse and some pics. Calm down, we ´ll be fine.

Theres also a massive number of ways that they could handle it. We have no way of guessing, as GW is known for doing pretty much the opposite what was speculated for a rule that wasnt partially spoiled already anyway.
Knowing that blast weapons hit full on hordes is not much of a spoiler to go on.

My gut would say its a number but GW loves their keywords.

People in general are quite negative, the internet has expanded that notion to ridiculous levels. For all we know, all these anti-horde speculations are true and orks by default are screwed....but then the terrain changes come into play and we're actually better off in the end. Time will tell.

Its still a ways off too so... hey GW.... WHERES THE FAQ!!

tneva82 wrote:
Many of the units that can be 20+ gets bonus at that size. Will many orks field units of 19 to avoid the blast effect? Anybody see 20 big ork units to begin with?

I doubt 10 is the treshhold. 10 isn't exactly horde. I would be betting more of 20+ and then it's often matter of bonus or avoidance of blast. 19 orks is lot less dangerous than 20.

There are quite a few horde units across other codices which get their bonus for having 10 or more models, like horrors or pox walkers. So I heavily doubt this will be the way it works.

Doesn’t some imperial chapter get bonuses against larger groups of enemies?

It’ll be very likely be # of models.

This blast rule has everyone freaked out. Does anyone on here even actively play with anything but Grots? Grots are fodder regardless.

tulun wrote:
Doesn’t some imperial chapter get bonuses against larger groups of enemies?

It’ll be very likely be # of models.

This blast rule has everyone freaked out. Does anyone on here even actively play with anything but Grots? Grots are fodder regardless.

Boyz? You can bet whatever you wish boyz will be hit with this. Depending on treshold so can tank bustas and lootas

Crimson Fists use 5 or more models - can't wait to hit those intercessor hordes with da boomer

Upcoming terror if you guys face Admech btw.



If the new admech flier gets within 6" of your KFF, you have no KFF for 1cp. Also shuts down painboy if you had both.
Orks have almost no offensive auras, so this hurts. Bad. Also messes with Breakin' Heads technically and arguably Mob Rule's sharing part

Sorry if I sounded negative, I really didn't mean to. It is all very subjective but it doesn't seem like a great idea to me, that is all, nothing more, I didn't want to bring anyone s mood down. I love the other ideas i heard about 9th though ! I guess I should have started with that hah hah. And of course we don't know, indeed perhaps GW find a good concept for this "horde" thing, who knows at this point

tneva82 wrote:


Boyz? You can bet whatever you wish boyz will be hit with this. Depending on treshold so can tank bustas and lootas

Seems like most people here post Mech lists which only feature grots.

I personally never take Lootas, and Tankbustas I usually take 10-12 at most as I fit them in a Trukk or Chinork, so I doubt it'll affect them for me.

Jidmah wrote:
Crimson Fists use 5 or more models - can't wait to hit those intercessor hordes with da boomer

Haha, well I doubt it's that VERBATIM, just an example of the type of rule they have built. I would wager it'll be either 11+, 15+, or 20+. If it's 20+, I doubt it'll actually be that big a deal. 11+ would be annoying. 15+? Just take 1 less Loota or TB.

The question is what type of unit they are going after, so that might inform at the actual model threshold.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Upcoming terror if you guys face Admech btw.

Spoiler:


If the new admech flier gets within 6" of your KFF, you have no KFF for 1cp. Also shuts down painboy if you had both.
Orks have almost no offensive auras, so this hurts. Bad. Also messes with Breakin' Heads technically and arguably Mob Rule's sharing part

See, now THAT'S something to freak out over. That's straight up BS against Orks. Guess those flyers are the first thing I need to smash in that matchup... As it says models, at least it's not likely to affect mob rule if you have at least 1 model outside of 6" I guess?

Its ambiguous but i think it has to have the source of the aura within 6" to negate it, so fortunately it wont reliably mess with us Turn1 long as your KFF's arent 6" away from the front edge of any friendly units so the flier can sit there.
But man....that is scary powerful against orks. Most armies that abuse auras are offensive ones, they can literally just walk away from it. Forcibly breaks up castles in that case at best. Its ultimate use is to negate defensive auras, which the only ones that come to mind are gamebreaking strong (TECHNICALLY the Tyranid Synapse is an aura lol)