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Let's hope you guys are right. 40k is at it's best when monsters vehicules and infantry are all there, each usable in different ways, perhaps not totally equal though, because the meta will always slightly (if not more) benefit one over the other 2. But 8th was good for this, because only monsters lacked a little something. And really, all monsters needed was one or two extra rules don't you guys think ? They gave all SM many bonuses, could have just given one or two to monster units, and there you had it...

Anyway perhaps that is "monsters vehicules and infantry, no one left out" thing is important to me, not necessarily for other players, so sorry for the rambling

The problem with Monsters in 8th is they stripped ALL of their extra rules, didnt give them properly tweaked analogs as a replacement, didnt reduce their costs (relatively to other units), and the only strats that they can benefit from are the usual "That...was a standard ability before wtf" sort of thing.
Meanwhile Walkers are a Vehicle, and damn near all Vehicle strats do not exclude walkers, but all Infantry ones of course do exclude Monsters.

They have no utility other than whats printed on their datasheet, and none of them really have much there.

I found it weird that all of those special rules they just got for being a Monster went away completely. Sure, Smash literally translating to 8th would have been broken (all attacks are AP3 unless the weapon is better) and also redundant since a lot of them have pretty nasty melee attacks, but they should have kept the alternate attack pattern mentality at least.

Here's hoping they address that issue. Both for Tyranids' sake and now Ghazzy's.

Reece is a nice guy... but he isn’t the best at all at judging units...he’s usually wildly off on predictions. It’s good to listen to what he says on specifics but don’t take his opinion on anything.
While Reece I’m sure helped judge some of the 9th edition rules it actually sounds like Brandt has more say this edition and I expect Codex missions to very closely match nova missions now because of Brandt.

To be fair I don’t think orks are going to do well on 9th start as 9th is only a progression of 8th. Orks are losing ground with the current marines meta in 8th. I’m not expecting major ork improvements with 9th. I think guard will do much better in transition and tyranids it all depends if GW boosts monster units but being able to shoot and melee helps them the most. That’s pretty much the horde meta. Kinda demons too especially nurgle but they tend to have a more balanced book.

gungo most tyranid MCs are terrible at shooting, just the exocrine really, which is already quite good in current 8th ed (the only toughness 8 tyranid MC that saw play). So i don't think they will benefit much form that rule. Perhaps shooty carnifex will make a come back, but a shooty fex is 8 wounds for more than 100 points, so I dunno really... Imperial guard most def though, especially with tank ace. Nurgle demons I haven't seen mcuh of them during 8th.

If monsters extra rules for being monsters, then of course that could change absolutely everything, as current points don't take that into account.

BTW, 9th won't come with a "CA like" point readjustment, will it ? I heard nothing on that. I would like it if it did, or if a point adjustment came like 3 weeks after release of 9th. it would be bad if we had to wait until end of year CA

Yes it will, they mentioned there will be points adjustments. It might not affect everything though, presumably just vehicles/monsters getting rebalanced in price.

 Jidmah wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Well you don't shove STormboys or Bikers into mainline combat units … you use their speed to hit weak targets, like artillery. Stormboys can wreck a unit of IG mortars, for instance, or deal with a 5-mean Devastator squad. Bikers can drive a unit of scouts off of a tactical objective just fine.

But you can't, you know, expect to mug a bunch of Terminators and get away with it.

You pay a premium for the SPEED of those units. Don't waste it.

Sorry, but that is a bunch of nonsense. Did you actually ever play these units?

"Can kill a unit of IG mortars" is not a quality. Literally everything can do that, especially all those extra big shootas we get on every other vehicle, we are talking about guardsmen with two wounds here. The only thing keeping these alive is screening and LOS blocking - which means unless your opponent is an idiot you will not be able to reach them turn one, and if they are sitting in a ruin, bikes can't ever touch them.

Why do you assume turn 1? You move up out of LoS over a round or two before you strike on turn 3, or turn 2 if you get lucky. You're also using a small unit for this, not a large one, in order to hide it better, to fit in to smaller places better, and, since your offensive punch is limited, to be more surgical.

And when you say they can kill artillery, that's just wrong. They will bounce off artillery vehicles like basilisks, LRBT, doomsday arks or executioners, have no chance of actually harming a battle suit and won't even be able to take out a single TF cannon on average - assuming you actually get all 30 models into the fight. Heck, they'd even struggle killing mek guns.
So the turn after you failed to destroy the artillery, they fall back and simply gun your 270 point unit down, assuming you even get that far. Most people will just focus down storm boyz first though, or might hit them with a stratagem that neuters them.

The one and only redeeming quality of storm boyz is being able to charge across the board turn one and thus restricting your opponent's ability to control the midfield and capture objectives, so you don't solely have to rely on the boyz you flung forward turn one. "You pay for the speed" is a joke when boy are already rather bad at killing anything that isn't lightly armored infantry and you lose green tide in comparison to them.
At 9 points per wound they are still adding to the horde saturation, but they are very much a cannon fodder/utility with a low damage output.

Bikers have literally never been a melee unit, as 12 boyz are simply nothing to write home about, even less so in 8th. Their shooting is ok-ish, but not worth spending that many points on. Their sole reason for playing them at all is using the kult of speed detachment for *guaranteed* first turn charges/arrests and because they tend to last longer in combat than boyz with their 2W/T5/4+ profile against units like intercessors and other units which rely on S4 AP0 attacks. With 3-5CP and 280+ points, the price tag for this small boost in reliability over ES MANz is beyond what could be considered reasonable.

Artillery, not tanks. So mortar teams, hive guard, Thunderfire cannons, etc. That last one's better for the Stormboys than the bikes, since the Techmarine is going to move in to save his gun with a power fist (and bikes REALLY don't like being fisted!) etc.

And, again, why on Earth is your bike squad 270 points instead of 69-110? You'll never be able to use a unit that big in a tactical role. Getting out of LoS is impossible for a unit of 6+ and they're such a big threat at that stage that they'll attract far too much firepower. 3-5 bikes a tactical strike makes.

If your entire gameplan is to throw these kinds of units out for turn 1 charges as "their only use" man, I don't know what to tell you. That's just *way* too aggressive. That's a fragile unit hurled into the middle of the enemy's force while they're still at full power, which is just dooming them to a hail of fire and dying without accomplishing much. You gotta have a plan and you gotta be *kunning*, you know? It's like the guys who put their Lootas front and center on the board, trusting grots to save them, only to see them poof on turn 2... "Well, I got to shoot them once, so it's good." … instead of putting them on a corner, at an angle that'll reduce incoming fire, post at range, and try to get them through the whole game... maybe they don't go out in a blaze of glory, but they'll workhorse all the same.

I don't know what your local scene looks like but man, you play a different game than we do.

Tying up units turn 1 is a legit strategy, though? 30 Boys and bikes can fulfill this role. Difference being that Bikes don’t fail the charge.

gungo wrote:
Reece is a nice guy... but he isn’t the best at all at judging units...he’s usually wildly off on predictions. It’s good to listen to what he says on specifics but don’t take his opinion on anything.
While Reece I’m sure helped judge some of the 9th edition rules it actually sounds like Brandt has more say this edition and I expect Codex missions to very closely match nova missions now because of Brandt.

100% agree. Reece might love playing orks but he has proven over and over again that he doesn't actually know what he is talking about and when you look at how well he does with orks compared to armies he plays, the results speak for themselves.
He is just one of those marine/eldar/tau players who has orks as a side project because he like the models and the fluff and should be treated as such.

I've heard that rumor has it that GW has stopped working with FLG for playtesting, is there any proof of this, or is this just a baseless rumor?

 addnid wrote:
gungo most tyranid MCs are terrible at shooting, just the exocrine really, which is already quite good in current 8th ed (the only toughness 8 tyranid MC that saw play). So i don't think they will benefit much form that rule. Perhaps shooty carnifex will make a come back, but a shooty fex is 8 wounds for more than 100 points, so I dunno really... Imperial guard most def though, especially with tank ace. Nurgle demons I haven't seen mcuh of them during 8th.

If monsters extra rules for being monsters, then of course that could change absolutely everything, as current points don't take that into account.

BTW, 9th won't come with a "CA like" point readjustment, will it ? I heard nothing on that. I would like it if it did, or if a point adjustment came like 3 weeks after release of 9th. it would be bad if we had to wait until end of year CA

I expect a massive faq and errata... I expect some points adjustments but not a ton and I expect some profile adjustments but not a ton... they also completely skipped the spring faq....

I’m not saying tyranids are going to be shooting all stars. I’m saying tyranids have a crap ton of monsters and that small change to shoot in melee is like an across the board improvement even if it’s minor. Heck ghaz shooting kinda sucks and I’m still happy he got it to help clear chaff which I one of his issues. Let’s also not forget monster will likely be able to charge units in ruins/buildings supposedly. All these small adjustments should add up. Maybe not make them tier 1 competitive but my point was I don’t see orks improving a ton in 9th compared to other hordes which should transition better. Heck straffing runs on our planes wouldn really help much either we just want to blow them up now.


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 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:
Reece is a nice guy... but he isn’t the best at all at judging units...he’s usually wildly off on predictions. It’s good to listen to what he says on specifics but don’t take his opinion on anything.
While Reece I’m sure helped judge some of the 9th edition rules it actually sounds like Brandt has more say this edition and I expect Codex missions to very closely match nova missions now because of Brandt.

100% agree. Reece might love playing orks but he has proven over and over again that he doesn't actually know what he is talking about and when you look at how well he does with orks compared to armies he plays, the results speak for themselves.
He is just one of those marine/eldar/tau players who has orks as a side project because he like the models and the fluff and should be treated as such.

I've heard that rumor has it that GW has stopped working with FLG for playtesting, is there any proof of this, or is this just a baseless rumor?

If Reece publically is talking about seeing 9th edition rules he’s likely still part of the playtesters.. however Reece was busy last year so he may not have had as much contact as Brandt who is now officially working at GW.

To be fair 40k is what 18 separate armies now? It’s a pain to balance and keep updated. But 9th edition sounds like a good cleanup minus the fact I hate there is like 5 books with relics and strats subkulturs and specialized detachments and vehicle ace/kustom jobs and Like 5 faq/chapter approved Updates ... and you get the idea.. it’s kinda of a rules mess and they said they are keeping everything legal.

I just want 1 new codex where they compile all this stuff into 1 coherent set of rules. I don’t care if it’s digital only and they just update the FAQs directly into it. But I hate to constantly cross check all these units... my iPad has been a savior this addition.

I hope the CP cost is related to different codices and not detachments/klans. Mixed klans is both fluffy for orks and has been critical to competitive ork lists.

Wakshaani wrote:
Why do you assume turn 1? You move up out of LoS over a round or two before you strike on turn 3, or turn 2 if you get lucky. You're also using a small unit for this, not a large one, in order to hide it better, to fit in to smaller places better, and, since your offensive punch is limited, to be more surgical.

Ok, I'll try to explain it, hoping you have interest in an actual discussion and not just in being right.
- Even if you bring 90 storm boyz, 60 of those tend to be dead by turn 2 unless you manage to wrap something. The armies I play have no issues killing 60 boyz in their first turn.
- You are suggesting to move up out of LoS against units with the ability to ignore LoS.
- Low model counts makes them easier to kill through morale and reduces the chance of them actually harming the target unit.

Artillery, not tanks. So mortar teams, hive guard, Thunderfire cannons, etc.

30 Storm boyz kill 0 thunderfire cannons on the charge, and you kill 1 hive guard per 10 storm boyz. Neither is particularly impressive nor worth the points invested, assuming you get there in the first place.

That last one's better for the Stormboys than the bikes, since the Techmarine is going to move in to save his gun with a power fist (and bikes REALLY don't like being fisted!) etc.

Those "power fists" are called servo arms, get only two attacks, fail half of the time and usually kill no more than two bikes.
Getting into combat with a TF cannon is hitting the jackport and worth two bikes crushed by servo arms, it would have much more damage if left unchecked and is difficult to kill through shooting.
Even better if the techmarine can be attacked by the killsaw nob. I'm fairly well acquainted with this particular scenario, and servo arms were never part of the equation.

And, again, why on Earth is your bike squad 270 points instead of 69-110? You'll never be able to use a unit that big in a tactical role.

They can advance 28" turn one and charge with the help of a wartrike or warboss. They can get pretty much anywhere on the board, and surround any unit that is not fully screened. Worst case you can consolidate 2d6 and tag anything you can get your hands on.
Anyone who has been caught off guard by them once will be careful to not leave anything out in the open, costing them a lot of board control.
Less models will cause the arrest to break once you take casualties, if you have enough models to surround units at all.
Unless your opponent has a powerful counter-charge unit to break them out, bikers usually hold down the units they charged until the rest of army catches up and finishes the fight.

Getting out of LoS is impossible for a unit of 6+ and they're such a big threat at that stage that they'll attract far too much firepower.

You can not get shot if you are locked in combat with an enemy that has no way of falling back - which is the whole point of playing bikes.

3-5 bikes a tactical strike makes.

And what exactly you plan to "tactical strike" with a unit that struggles to kill a unit of guardsmen?

If your entire gameplan is to throw these kinds of units out for turn 1 charges as "their only use" man, I don't know what to tell you. That's just *way* too aggressive. That's a fragile unit hurled into the middle of the enemy's force while they're still at full power, which is just dooming them to a hail of fire and dying without accomplishing much. You gotta have a plan and you gotta be *kunning*, you know? It's like the guys who put their Lootas front and center on the board, trusting grots to save them, only to see them poof on turn 2... "Well, I got to shoot them once, so it's good." … instead of putting them on a corner, at an angle that'll reduce incoming fire, post at range, and try to get them through the whole game... maybe they don't go out in a blaze of glory, but they'll workhorse all the same. I don't know what your local scene looks like but man, you play a different game than we do.

My scene has too much firepower that I could hide ork units through an entire game or afford to have parts of my army not participating in the game. And just for the record, I haven't exactly lost a lot of games during 8th.
My semi-competitive opponents, even the new guys, would wipe me off the table if I followed your advice. There is no "hide out of LoS" if your opponents have things like planes, bikes, deep striking melee units or other highly mobile units - stuff essential to winning the CA 2019 missions.
When you want to hold back a unit for surgical strike, you need to protect them by the tellyporta or character rules.
A unit of lootas will die by turn 2, no matter where you hide it - the only difference is that when you hide them, you get no good shooting out of them unless you have an incompetent opponent who put valuable targets in their firing lanes.

Orks have no staying power, against a decent opponent you cannot keep your stuff alive and hide it for three or four turns, the only way to prevent just getting shot off the board is by disrupting your opponent's game plan.
You do that by forcing multiple units (usually boyz) onto your opponent, preventing them from moving out of their deployment zone, forcing them to handle the threat in their face instead of more valuable or dangerous targets. Meanwhile your shooting destroys the targets which are most dangerous to your strategy while you spread out your army to cover the board and objectives. This buys your army enough time to get into place for turn two, the competitive infantry lists follow up with more boyz through tellyporta, endless green tide and da jump. In a vehicle based list, you just keep blasting apart anything that's good at killing vehicles and tagging shooting units - eventually you will run out of army, but you will most likely win because your enemy is still sitting in his deployment zone, with not enough time left to catch up on your VP lead.

The only way I can imagine an ork army winning by holding back and letting the opponent do as he pleases is when there is a massive difference in player skill or list power.


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 Dendarien wrote:
I hope the CP cost is related to different codices and not detachments/klans. Mixed klans is both fluffy for orks and has been critical to competitive ork lists.

We already know that additional detachments will cost points.

Mixed clan will not go away, it will just be an actual decision whether it's worth spending CP your on extra clans instead of a no-brainer.

 addnid wrote:

BTW, 9th won't come with a "CA like" point readjustment, will it ? I heard nothing on that. I would like it if it did, or if a point adjustment came like 3 weeks after release of 9th. it would be bad if we had to wait until end of year CA

The saturda FAQ mentioned points gettig revisited. Didn't say when but sounded it would be with 9th ed. Fits also how AOS is done and besides gives extra booklet for GW to sell on launch so I'm expecting one.

They might just add the munitorium something book to the BRB so we can toss out the one that came with CA.

They could...But they make more money by putting it on sale separately. With GW I expect them to do things the way that costs players most money. That way I can only be pleasantly surprised!

They said the rulebook will be free so i'd be shocked if the points are in it as well.

Lots of discussion on storm boys
I was just saying I’d like to see them get a strategem to boost their damage.

1cp the unit gets +1atk, +1str on the charge or when charged
Or +1 atk -1ap
And give zagstruk reroll hit roll of 1 for stormboys

Their speed is good their damage sucks thier durability isn’t great but that shouldn’t be thier strength. I rather see warbikers gain -1 to hit. And a stratagem As well.


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 Vineheart01 wrote:
They said the rulebook will be free so i'd be shocked if the points are in it as well.

The last free rule book was barebones. You still had to pay for actual stuff beyond basic rules.

 Jidmah wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Why do you assume turn 1? You move up out of LoS over a round or two before you strike on turn 3, or turn 2 if you get lucky. You're also using a small unit for this, not a large one, in order to hide it better, to fit in to smaller places better, and, since your offensive punch is limited, to be more surgical.

Ok, I'll try to explain it, hoping you have interest in an actual discussion and not just in being right.
- Even if you bring 90 storm boyz, 60 of those tend to be dead by turn 2 unless you manage to wrap something. The armies I play have no issues killing 60 boyz in their first turn.
- You are suggesting to move up out of LoS against units with the ability to ignore LoS.
- Low model counts makes them easier to kill through morale and reduces the chance of them actually harming the target unit.

Well, that's less of a discussion, more you taking a tone of "I am the top wisdom and you shold bow before me" and just trying to state reality.

That's not really a back and forth, but hey. No worries! You're clearly playing a different game than we are. You have your fun at your tables. We'll have fun at ours. It's all good!

Keep rockin' out there!

So the demon's tease for engine wars have shown yet another way to turn off aura's from characters. It really seems like GW is adding more and more ways to do so, kind of interesting right? Have they been listening to players complain about the buff stacking and offering these options?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They said the rulebook will be free so i'd be shocked if the points are in it as well.

The free rules are basically same as what are now except updated. You still would need actual rulebook for missions, matched play rules etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
So the demon's tease for engine wars have shown yet another way to turn off aura's from characters. It really seems like GW is adding more and more ways to do so, kind of interesting right? Have they been listening to players complain about the buff stacking and offering these options?

Quite possibly. Wonder is there anything that says ork characters don't get mob rule LD for the roll off? IF they get then that's even less scary than the ad mech one. Though easier to get in range and more powerful if it pulls off so for non-orks more of a worry.

tneva82 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They said the rulebook will be free so i'd be shocked if the points are in it as well.

The free rules are basically same as what are now except updated. You still would need actual rulebook for missions, matched play rules etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
So the demon's tease for engine wars have shown yet another way to turn off aura's from characters. It really seems like GW is adding more and more ways to do so, kind of interesting right? Have they been listening to players complain about the buff stacking and offering these options?

Quite possibly. Wonder is there anything that says ork characters don't get mob rule LD for the roll off? IF they get then that's even less scary than the ad mech one. Though easier to get in range and more powerful if it pulls off so for non-orks more of a worry.

Aye, I immediately thought the same. Thank goodness there's no more nonsense about fear tests, moral tests, leadership tests. It's all just the one value now so our rules actually interact with each of them rather then just some. xP So bloody grateful for that. It's also of note that GW has referred to Auras in recent stratagems and rules a few times. Have we in the past had a good definition of what an AURA is? Is mob rule by definition an aura due to the LD sharing effect?

Agree, I'm not too worried about the aura blocking, especially if mob rule matters.
What, I'm way more worried about is our tzeench player using his exalted Lord of Change to switch off da jump and smite for the rest of the game. The thing is almost unkillable and with its new ability it could completely neuter a warphead for the rest of the game each turn.

Yeh that's scary. Luckily I always try to have 2 da jumps and with +2/+3 to cast orks have denying spell isn't easiest but for orks certainly scarier than the daemon aura negating.

Hopefully the FAQ for the new rulebook will actually tell us what is and isn't an "aura".

I seriously hope that mob rule isn't an aura, because having one of your basic rules shut down just because is a bit much.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Hopefully the FAQ for the new rulebook will actually tell us what is and isn't an "aura".

I seriously hope that mob rule isn't an aura, because having one of your basic rules shut down just because is a bit much.

Odds are it's simple. Any ability that affects units within X".

Anyway at most that would negate character getting LD boost from nearby guys. Tzeentch needs to have some pretty nasty LD combo before I worry about that.

BTW noticed it's leadership characteristic...maybe mob rule doesn't help vs that. Still it's not the mob rule I would worry. I think I can live without LD30 on character. It's the KFF I would be more worried about.

tneva82 wrote:
Yeh that's scary. Luckily I always try to have 2 da jumps and with +2/+3 to cast orks have denying spell isn't easiest but for orks certainly scarier than the daemon aura negating.

A LoC has +2 to denies though as well, so its chance is still decent.

Ah right that I wasn't aware. Only guy who plays with tzeentch daemons here is the resident backup player and playing vs him would require staying so late I would have less than 2h to play before last train so...

That certainly endangers da jump. Well LOC's aren't impossible to kill but certainly makes backup da jump even more essential.

I face them pretty regular, one player has been playing tzeench daemons for ages and just added a TS detachment to them, and two others occasional bring them as part of TS or chaos undivided lists.

They usually field them with an impossible robe, which means you need to grind through 16 T7/3++ wounds, which is almost never worth the trouble. It's much easier to just tarpit him with boyz or gretchin, but I guess that's no longer an option now.

Wakshaani wrote:


Why do you assume turn 1? You move up out of LoS over a round or two before you strike on turn 3, or turn 2 if you get lucky. You're also using a small unit for this, not a large one, in order to hide it better, to fit in to smaller places better, and, since your offensive punch is limited, to be more surgical

Artillery, not tanks. So mortar teams, hive guard, Thunderfire cannons, etc. That last one's better for the Stormboys than the bikes, since the Techmarine is going to move in to save his gun with a power fist (and bikes REALLY don't like being fisted!) etc.

And, again, why on Earth is your bike squad 270 points instead of 69-110? You'll never be able to use a unit that big in a tactical role. Getting out of LoS is impossible for a unit of 6+ and they're such a big threat at that stage that they'll attract far too much firepower. 3-5 bikes a tactical strike makes.

I am sorry, but I really dislike this argument. Every time someone brings up durability as an issue someone inevitably says "Stay out of LOS" as if people weren't already doing that. Boards aren't always littered with giant LOS block terrain, and most of the time the stuff you want to tag with bikes/stormboyz is protected by screens which inhibit your ability to stay out of LOS the entire time.

As far as "Small unit" yes, there is some tactical sense in that sometimes, for bikes/stormboyz not so much. Lets say you take 10 Stormboyz or 5 bikes to be "tactical". A screening unit of 10 IG Guardsmen with FRFSRF can merc about 3 Stormboyz at range and 6 in close before over watch. Even killing 3 at range they are now down to Leadership 4 so you have a 1/3rd chance to lose another 1 or 2, if they lose 6....they are likely dead and even if they survive they won't survive over watch. As for bikes, You are losing 1-2 at range and about 3 at 12' range. Again, if they even get in charge range they will have to deal with the speed bump unit which can effectively keep them tied up in CC, retreat on their turn and then blast your unit to hell. Theoretical arguments are useful, but rarely do I see units I want to tag with CC units that are not heavily screened, nor are they left close enough to the frontlines where my opponent won't get at least 1 turn to gut whatever units I send to try and run the flank and attack his rear lines.

Wakshaani wrote:

If your entire gameplan is to throw these kinds of units out for turn 1 charges as "their only use" man, I don't know what to tell you. That's just *way* too aggressive. That's a fragile unit hurled into the middle of the enemy's force while they're still at full power, which is just dooming them to a hail of fire and dying without accomplishing much. You gotta have a plan and you gotta be *kunning*, you know? It's like the guys who put their Lootas front and center on the board, trusting grots to save them, only to see them poof on turn 2... "Well, I got to shoot them once, so it's good." … instead of putting them on a corner, at an angle that'll reduce incoming fire, post at range, and try to get them through the whole game... maybe they don't go out in a blaze of glory, but they'll workhorse all the same.

I don't know what your local scene looks like but man, you play a different game than we do.

Zerging enemy armies turn 1 is absolutely a kunning plan. I've done it a few times myself, surprising my opponent with how fast Ork units can be. A lot of the time, the enemy has a game plan that gets thrown out the window turn 1 when the unit he needed to stay alive is now either dead or tied up in CC and he then has to use his reserve units he wanted to wait until turn 2-3 to deep strike into my lines is now stuck deploying in his own lines while my Gun Line obliterates the scary stuff I don't want around later in the game. If you have ever faced off against a player who didn't understand/know about Da Jump you will understand the joy of sheer panic written across your opponents face as 30 boyz appear in his lines and ties up several important units.

 addnid wrote:
Reece in the frontlinegaming article "9th ed 40k on the Way!", in the comment section, said Horde armies were in for a tough time in 9th.
This confirms what many "fearmongers" were saying. Seems strange design to me, because horde armies could basically do nothing vs SM armies end of 9th (too many attacks in CC), so it seems strange that GW made it harder to play horde armies.

Monsters and dreads surely needed a push, but not at the expense of hordes IMHO.

We will see though because at the worst Hordes will be helped simply by being couter meta so I am not too scared honestly. I ordered stuff to kitbash 30 stormboyz, and I plan on using these loosers no matter what !!

Reece lost all credibility when talking about orkz. I am sure he is a cool guy and doesn't mean to be misleading but he was the man who said that Killa Kanz and the Stompa would be amazing in 8th.

Horde armies were already in a bad place in 8th with the power creep allowing armies to delete upwards of 60-90 boyz a turn. In my opinion, if IG Guardsmen are 4pts each with a better save, BS,standard weapon than Ork boyz at 7pts should have a 5+ save as well. Hell, a Tau firewarrior has a 30' S5 rapid fire weapon at BS4 and has a 4+ save at 7pts. Which on a tangent, always made me wonder why Tau players didn't ever attempt a Firewarrior Horde army. You can pick a Sept which gives all your guys a cover save (3+ firewarriors), one that increases the range by 6 (36' range weapon and double tapping at 18)or a sept that lets you overwatch on 5s. I don't know about you, but facing off against 200 Firewarriors who hit on 4s and can double tap at 18 with 3 shots (fireblade bonus) all at S5...no thanks.

i actually did before i sold my tau, because Index Tau it was literally all they could do since everything was 2x the price what it is now for them lol.
It was comical, but fell flat against phat targets since their tanks suck and its either tanks or fusion suits to deal with vehicles reliably.
They can fire 4 shots at i think it was 18" due to the increased Pulse range effect. WHen you got 60 firewarriors thats...alot of dakka...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i actually did before i sold my tau, because Index Tau it was literally all they could do since everything was 2x the price what it is now for them lol.
It was comical, but fell flat against phat targets since their tanks suck and its either tanks or fusion suits to deal with vehicles reliably.
They can fire 4 shots at i think it was 18" due to the increased Pulse range effect. WHen you got 60 firewarriors thats...alot of dakka...

LMAO, even 3 shots that is amazing. A 10 fish unit is getting 15 hits (ignoring the reroll 1s) and against boyz thats 10 wounds for likely 8-9 dead boyz. Congrats, you almost made back your units cost in 1 shooting phase

I faced a Tau player in a tournament where he had 2 blobs of 40 Firewarriors on the table. The goal was to overwatch me to death and on his turn just shoot everything to death. I beat him only because I had a 25 blob of Lootas. Turn 1 I went first and rolled 3 shots while multi targeting all 4 units split roughly evenly. Turned out to do WAY above average hits (50) and after wound and save rolls he had 5 left spread out over 3 units they shot again using the strat and merced another 2 units of firewarriors and that was just about game over, especially when my Da Jumping boys slammed into his broadsides who were now deprived of their overwatch protection.