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PiñaColada wrote:

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Still the chaos PA looks bad ATM. I really feel for all those that have a Bloodthirster and could not field it all 8th.

That T16 Great Unclean one though, what more can you want?

Is that a real thing? It'd be one of the few cases where the S20 on a stompa does something.

T16? Still wounding on 3's bitch!

You can technically chain exalted as much as you want. It's probably gonna be FAQed shortly, as it's obviously wrong, probably much like the engine war nonsense where you can stack like 6 auras from the new book

But yeah, the GUO can get up to like t16 plus do like 10 d3 mortals a turn or something stupid. Considering that's a Warlord Titan, I imagine that's unintended for 40k play.

Ah, so it's like the pre-errata warphead, where you could put the same strat on a weirdboy over and over? I'm still upset GW took that away from us, it was a terrible move and super orky at the same time.

Let me gamble that this 4 wound model who perils super easily is going to be worth spending like 5CPs on so he can throw out every spell in the entire discipline every turn

The LOC issue is a trap and Orks are the army least worried about it.
It’s still stupid expensive just for a chance to prevent a psychic power.
And honestly I’m using da jump turn 1 and turn 2 tops most games. Unless it’s a late objective grab instead of smite..
Turn 1 the LOC is likely not in range. Turn 2 I’m still tarpitting. Which means if it’s going to attempt to deny my power it along with my boys tarpit is giving me enough boys in range of my weirdboy to give me +2/3 to my psychic test. Compared to other armies orks should be fine. The LOC is still a lot of points that really doesn’t hurt orks that much. It always had the same chance to deny and it never bothered us then either.

generally if i even get a third DaJump im usually DaJumping the weirdboy himself to try for a cheeky smite-character-snipe, as hes kinda ran out of his usefulness at that point.
It almost never pays off but i do it anyway because of that one time it did work and i won because of it lol

tulun wrote:
You can technically chain exalted as much as you want. It's probably gonna be FAQed shortly, as it's obviously wrong, probably much like the engine war nonsense where you can stack like 6 auras from the new book

But yeah, the GUO can get up to like t16 plus do like 10 d3 mortals a turn or something stupid. Considering that's a Warlord Titan, I imagine that's unintended for 40k play.

You can do that only in open play though, matched play prevents the exalted daemons from getting an ability twice. The worst your opponent can do is bring an exalted daemon with all six abilities for 6CP.

I'm wondering, what's our most efficient non-relic non-vehicle melee weapon? The big choppa with it's CC Autocannon stat, the powerklaw with it's swingy damage and poor accuracy, the Powerstabba with it's meh strength but cheap and cheerful nature, finally the Killsaw with a pretty decent statline for killing anything without an invul and an even number of wounds.

Depends on who’s swinging it..
If you are wondering about nob squad who gets access to all those options... people did the numbers way back in this thread.. the power stabba was actually better then I thought it would be.

Don't warbosses also have access to most of them? Outside the Powerstabba if I recall. But yeah, nobs can have a wonderful variety of weapons slapped onto them. Interesting that the powerstabba faired well. Though at 3 points it's quite cheap (Or maybe the rest are far too expensive)

 Jidmah wrote:
Eh, still means it turns a warp head into a nob with big choppa each turn.

Not that level. Even at +2 to dispel bonuses equal out or orks get 1 more . He needs Roll over so odds are against him(especially as your lowest rolls don't matter as you fail to cast aka no deny)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Still the chaos PA looks bad ATM. I really feel for all those that have a Bloodthirster and could not field it all 8th.

That T16 Great Unclean one though, what more can you want?

Is that a real thing? It'd be one of the few cases where the S20 on a stompa does something.

T16? Still wounding on 3's bitch!

You can technically chain exalted as much as you want. It's probably gonna be FAQed shortly, as it's obviously wrong, probably much like the engine war nonsense where you can stack like 6 auras from the new book

But yeah, the GUO can get up to like t16 plus do like 10 d3 mortals a turn or something stupid. Considering that's a Warlord Titan, I imagine that's unintended for 40k play.

Good luck rolling all those duplicates. Even with 2d6 odds of getting it is 30%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

tulun wrote:
You can technically chain exalted as much as you want. It's probably gonna be FAQed shortly, as it's obviously wrong, probably much like the engine war nonsense where you can stack like 6 auras from the new book

But yeah, the GUO can get up to like t16 plus do like 10 d3 mortals a turn or something stupid. Considering that's a Warlord Titan, I imagine that's unintended for 40k play.

You can do that only in open play though, matched play prevents the exalted daemons from getting an ability twice. The worst your opponent can do is bring an exalted daemon with all six abilities for 6CP.

Or roll randomly. Then he can get duplicates. But likely blows all cp to get that t16

cody.d. wrote:
I'm wondering, what's our most efficient non-relic non-vehicle melee weapon? The big choppa with it's CC Autocannon stat, the powerklaw with it's swingy damage and poor accuracy, the Powerstabba with it's meh strength but cheap and cheerful nature, finally the Killsaw with a pretty decent statline for killing anything without an invul and an even number of wounds.

The killsaw is probably the best weapon, but you always need to factor in the chance of those 15 points actually reaching combat. After that, I'd say dual choppas are the next best option.

cody.d. wrote:
I'm wondering, what's our most efficient non-relic non-vehicle melee weapon? The big choppa with it's CC Autocannon stat, the powerklaw with it's swingy damage and poor accuracy, the Powerstabba with it's meh strength but cheap and cheerful nature, finally the Killsaw with a pretty decent statline for killing anything without an invul and an even number of wounds.

Overall, it's definitely double Killsaw. But that's not really fair, as that's 23 points.

Based on what boys stuggle against it's gotta be the Kill saw. The power klaw is the worst general options per point, imo, as the Kill saw is just straight up better for 2 points. Consistent damage AND straight up ignores power armour? Yes please.

Probably per point, the Big Choppa is the all purpose winner. No neg hit modifier, AP-1, +2 str, and 2 damage. The power stabba is okay but I think the 1 damage profile kills it. At least it's cheap as hell, but you might as well just take a Big Choppa. They aren't that expensive, and nobs with Big Choppas looks boss.

And as was stated, double choppa if you don't really care if they kill much. It's free.

Power klaw is the best for Deathskulls is it not ?

 addnid wrote:
Power klaw is the best for Deathskulls is it not ?

Nope.

Always take consistency. PKs do better under death skulls, but you wanna reduce variance. I’m still gonna get 1s to my damage roll with the PK.

tulun wrote:

 addnid wrote:
Power klaw is the best for Deathskulls is it not ?

Nope.

Always take consistency. PKs do better under death skulls, but you wanna reduce variance. I’m still gonna get 1s to my damage roll with the PK.

Against a 1-wound model, it's irrelevant.
Against a 2-wound model, you have a 1/9 chance of doing worse with a Deathskulls PK than a Killsaw. (Assuming AP-3 is enough to force them to their invuln or nothing.)
Against a 3-wound model, you have a 5/9 chance of one-shotting the model.

Now, if you can take dual Saws, that extra attack should more than make up for that, or if you're in a Primaris heavy environment without any 3-wound models, then Saws are generally better. But one singular Klaw has a use.

Points went up across the board. I’m wondering if boyz and Gretchin went up again. They implied it’s more like pre 8th edition.

Any substantial point increase would definitely kill hoard army’s

gungo wrote:
Points went up across the board. I’m wondering if boyz and Gretchin went up again. They implied it’s more like pre 8th edition.

Any substantial point increase would definitely kill hoard army’s

Not if EVERYTHING goes up by the same amount.

Though looking at the points previewed, not sure they did. Cultists went up 50%.
Intercessors went up less than 20%.

12 CP for 2000 point games, not great news for us is it ?

 JNAProductions wrote:


]Against a 1-wound model, it's irrelevant.
Against a 2-wound model, you have a 1/9 chance of doing worse with a Deathskulls PK than a Killsaw. (Assuming AP-3 is enough to force them to their invuln or nothing.)
Against a 3-wound model, you have a 5/9 chance of one-shotting the model.

Now, if you can take dual Saws, that extra attack should more than make up for that, or if you're in a Primaris heavy environment without any 3-wound models, then Saws are generally better. But one singular Klaw has a use.

Considering the things boys struggle against the most IS Primaris, and how they will probably continue to dominate the meta, that basically answers the question. You should absolutely build to kill them.

Keep in mind, you only re-roll 1 damage roll. and power armour gets to a 6+ save -- Sure, it's not great, but paying 2 more points to deny them a save is a no brainer to me, and to prevent if I get a bit lucky on hit rolls, an intercessor without an invul save just outright dies.

I don't really expect my boys to bash down 3 wound models, they really aren't designed to do that. Having that random 3 damage klaw isn't going make a difference without a lot of blind luck.

Fair enough.

 addnid wrote:
12 CP for 2000 point games, not great news for us is it ?

We are still missing parts of the picture: How will armies be able to gain CP mid-game, and whether or not existing stratagems will have their cost adjusted at launch.

There's also the factor of smaller army sizes meaning less targets for strats, lowering the average CP consumption per turn.

As far as point values go, my bet for Boyz is they'll hit 9 point per.

 addnid wrote:
12 CP for 2000 point games, not great news for us is it ?

That's your starting CP. They've said elsewhere that you get CP every round as well, so if it's like 2CP extra per battleround then I got no complaints

12 CP to start. Happy day.

Hopefully the regen is like 2-3 a turn.

tulun wrote:
12 CP to start. Happy day.

Hopefully the regen is like 2-3 a turn.

Especially if to gain those 2-3 CPs each turn, all we need to do is park tons of boyz on dem shineez

Boyz who will get protected by dem new terrain rulezz !!!

Intercessors are now 20 ppm.

Cultists 6 ppm.

Hmm. Seems like a 15% points increase?

Edit: oh. Cultists are 4 points now.

If intercessor guns aren’t expensive, holy gak, this might be a massive shift.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What is also interesting, with these special actions announced, I wonder if large units of boys will be suboptimal?

If you have to give a units turn to do a special action, maybe 10-15 man boy squads will have a purpose.

And 30 man boy squads will be susceptible to blasts and giving up too many points for a turn to perform these special actions.

 JNAProductions wrote:

gungo wrote:
Points went up across the board. I’m wondering if boyz and Gretchin went up again. They implied it’s more like pre 8th edition.

Any substantial point increase would definitely kill hoard army’s

Not if EVERYTHING goes up by the same amount.

Though looking at the points previewed, not sure they did. Cultists went up 50%.
Intercessors went up less than 20%.

Sadly I think thier intention is to reduce hordes and reduce game time by making us use elite forces and large models more then troops.
Good news for mega nobs and maybe warbikers bad news for boyz and Gretchin... unfortunately our most competitive list was horde spam even regardless if I don’t like playing it personally.

gungo wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

gungo wrote:
Points went up across the board. I’m wondering if boyz and Gretchin went up again. They implied it’s more like pre 8th edition.

Any substantial point increase would definitely kill hoard army’s

Not if EVERYTHING goes up by the same amount.

Though looking at the points previewed, not sure they did. Cultists went up 50%.
Intercessors went up less than 20%.

Sadly I think thier intention is to reduce hordes and reduce game time by making us use elite forces and large models more then troops.
Good news for mega nobs and maybe warbikers bad news for boyz and Gretchin... unfortunately our most competitive list was horde spam even regardless if I don’t like playing it personally.

Mega Nobs are the best, so, if they become meta, I'm a happy camper.

Honestly, playing 170 models in a 2000 point game is miserable in 8th edition, even if it's strong. If we can shift a bit away from that, all the better.

I remember playing Orks in 3rd/4th edition with LESS models and it felt like a proper, disorganized horde. I play with more models in 8th and it just feels... off.

It really is, one of the reasons i never ran more than 2x30 boyz and typically didnt even move my grots more than once (maybe twice depending on where the objective was) was because i got tired of having that many models.

Yeah, this also helps address GW's fundamental issues of not being effectively able to address horde units, because look at what happened to cultists and conscripts. Points wasn't enough to deal with them since the points design space was so limited, so they had to lump on restrictive rules (max unit size, stuff like Raw Recruits and Cultists not benefiting from Legion traits) to compensate. Ideally, with the points reset, it means Ork hordes are a little more purposeful even if we're more limited in number, as I think we all prefer having maybe 60 boyz with a decent number reaching the enemy, rather than 120 with only half getting there.

it also semi addresses the issue that a lot of things cost as much or less points than they do USD.
For orks and admech (ironically both my armies) its especially bad. Hopefully that issue gets rectified, i have no issues with things being pretty pricy (the new admech flier being 100USD is fine given its detail and scale) but when im expected to buy multiples of it because its so dang cheap in game...wtf gw lol. That flier costs 130-160pts btw depending on the variant you use. Something that costs a little more than a Stormraven is half its points....cause that makes sense
And they wonder why so many people are going the 3D printing route.

Any idea how many local guys keep bugging me to print them rhinos, sicarans, dreads, wagons, or ork fliers? They dont want to spend several hundred for such a tiny fraction of their army. People arent afraid of the cost for a knight because its at least a large chunk of the army, but they get pissy when its a mek gun lol

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, this also helps address GW's fundamental issues of not being effectively able to address horde units, because look at what happened to cultists and conscripts. Points wasn't enough to deal with them since the points design space was so limited, so they had to lump on restrictive rules (max unit size, stuff like Raw Recruits and Cultists not benefiting from Legion traits) to compensate. Ideally, with the points reset, it means Ork hordes are a little more purposeful even if we're more limited in number, as I think we all prefer having maybe 60 boyz with a decent number reaching the enemy, rather than 120 with only half getting there.

Yeah, exactly.

Just thinking of how my Ork boys played in 3rd...

I'd field 2-3 max size squads (which I think was 20 boys), with half of each squad near a KFF (because it was 50%> for the KFF cover save), at the edge of my deployment zone, and just run em forward because they could only move 6" and charge 6". As they were shot, they'd eventually fall back and mob up into the remaining squads, turning my other squads into a mesh of Big Shootas, Rockets, Nobs, and remaining boys. They might not make it, but it felt like a snowball rolling down a mountain gaining in size until it bashed into the enemy.

That felt way. more like an Ork horde then me fielding 90+ boys today, with me mostly hiding them because I'm worried about flying units that can charge 44" away, so I have to screen a bunch of grots in a weird conga line in front, or just hiding them because I have to worry about a single unit of aggressors shooting them 114 times with re-rolls in 1 shooting phase.