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yeah seeing that ghaz is not shooting on 6s helps a lot.
Ive been using him because pfft its ghaz zog off he's da best. Keeps getting tarpitted by cultists, forcing my boyz/nobz to come to his aid to get him out of it.

I honestly wonder how much anti tank we might need now.

Vehicles are sounding a lot better in general. And tagging them no longer sounds viable outside of niche cases.

Boom boy tank busters starting to look better?


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I dunno how y'all feel, but man is it looking dire for light infantry. Hopefully they throw them a bone because boys are looking even more boned then they were in 8th.

They might be relegated to tellyporta / outflank only, and even then, they can't even tag vehicles anymore.

Boomboys is dead with the current detachment rules making you pay 1-3cp for another detachment

Also scorchas were never bad just overpriced... it all depends on point costs.

Nah, skorchas were bad.

Everything that could take them were either super squishy/sacrificed melee for it (nobz, deffdreads) or realistically only got to fire the damn thing ONCE due to its reach and now youre stuck in combat forever.

Heck i usually completely forget the Gork even has a skorcha because i am almost always at 9" when someone charges me or im Ramming Speeding a 10" charge or so, meaning i never even got to use it in the first place.

Assuming vehicles that truely benefit from this in 9th (i.e. can melee and take skorchas) dont get overhyked in price, this makes skorchas pretty good as they will keep using them.

Also we dont know the cost for each detachment, its possible the other detachments like Patrol, Outrider, Vanguard, etc are only 1cp each. 1cp to have your 3-4 units that REALLY want boomboyz or grotmobz would still be worth it.

gungo wrote:
Boomboys is dead with the current detachment rules making you pay 1-3cp for another detachment

Also scorchas were never bad just overpriced... it all depends on point costs.

Given you could almost never fire them I dunno if I agree. That concern is gone though!

If patrols are only 1 CP, I think armies are gonna spam the hell out of them. I’ll gladly give up 1-2 CP to take useful other clans.

Vehicles being able to shoot in combat makes both the KBB and the scrapjet with korkscrew upgrade look extremely sexy.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.
KBB's main thing that urked me was it had the spiked ram but no melee. Well now it dakkas in melee anyway, and lethally enough to potentially shoot it out of combat so it can immediately charge again!

 Jidmah wrote:
Vehicles being able to shoot in combat makes both the KBB and the scrapjet with korkscrew upgrade look extremely sexy.

Do you mean Da Burnin' Highway stratagem? I'm not sure mortal wounds on 6s is still worth it, but getting 12 auto hitting skorcha attacks for 1 CP doesn't look too bad.

Yeah, I'm glad this gives the Ork buggies a new lease on life, thanks to the stuff we've gotten from SoTB on top of this. We're definitely going to see a return of parking lots in this edition, we'll see if being counted as horde gives any actual benefits and not just downsides. Maybe they extend the amount of engagement range if you qualify? It'd be good to not entirely destroy horde builds for Tyranids or Orks, especially since model count will already be lower due to points increases across the board.

and suddenly im remembering the guy that took what was it 20 buggies to a tournament?
Bet that guy is loving these thoughts.

I wonder if this will see Grotzookas come back into popularity. Ignoring the hit penalty and being able to fire into combat after you reach the lines does give them some umph.

tulun wrote:

gungo wrote:
Boomboys is dead with the current detachment rules making you pay 1-3cp for another detachment

Also scorchas were never bad just overpriced... it all depends on point costs.

Given you could almost never fire them I dunno if I agree. That concern is gone though!

If patrols are only 1 CP, I think armies are gonna spam the hell out of them. I’ll gladly give up 1-2 CP to take useful other clans.

We are already down on CP from the detachment changes. I was regularly using triple bat for 18cp.
I’m now down to 12 regen 1 a turn with at best the first 2-3 rounds being all that matters.

If I am eating additional CP beyond my current use its going to be a problem especially anything beyond 1cp detachment is useless.

Regarding skorchas I used them regularly when the index allowed them on kommandoes they were great and are useful in combat since they are essentially power weapons. Kommandos with reroll wounds in melee and +1 in terrain made those free burnas and kommandos really versatile.

cody.d. wrote:
I wonder if this will see Grotzookas come back into popularity. Ignoring the hit penalty and being able to fire into combat after you reach the lines does give them some umph.

They may very well go back to being blast weapons, so wouldn't be able to shoot in melee (but would be better vs hordes, I suppose).

Still, I'm excited for even the potential to run my kans and dreads in force. This makes a lot of ork vehicles much more appealing, so we'll at least have that to look forward to even if boyz need to take an edition off.

 Trimarius wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I wonder if this will see Grotzookas come back into popularity. Ignoring the hit penalty and being able to fire into combat after you reach the lines does give them some umph.

They may very well go back to being blast weapons, so wouldn't be able to shoot in melee (but would be better vs hordes, I suppose).

Still, I'm excited for even the potential to run my kans and dreads in force. This makes a lot of ork vehicles much more appealing, so we'll at least have that to look forward to even if boyz need to take an edition off.

It would be odd if they were considered blast to be honest. Always was. They are described as being more like blunderbuss' so essentially shotguns. You'd imagine the best place to fire them would be at pointblank range.

tulun wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Vehicles being able to shoot in combat makes both the KBB and the scrapjet with korkscrew upgrade look extremely sexy.

Do you mean Da Burnin' Highway stratagem? I'm not sure mortal wounds on 6s is still worth it, but getting 12 auto hitting skorcha attacks for 1 CP doesn't look too bad.

Nah, just the buggy itself. It already murders light infantry without the help of the stratagem. Just shoot, dive it into them and then force then shoot them again next turn.
In the games I played post SotB, I rarely felt the need to use that stratagem.


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cody.d. wrote:
It would be odd if they were considered blast to be honest. Always was. They are described as being more like blunderbuss' so essentially shotguns. You'd imagine the best place to fire them would be at pointblank range.

Still, it would provide them with a reason to exist. Otherwise, they'll always be worse big shootas, and that is a really bad place to be.

If the grotzookas were assault at least it would be 5 pts for extra shot, extra S and with kan klaws would be same in melee. Now -1 to hit within melee yeah worse big shoota. Now might just as well be blast. Lack of shooting in melee doesn't matter much when you would suffer from -1 anyway non blast.

Let's hope they don't forget to errata nauts so they can properly use their main guns in combat.

I doubt the main guns go from heavy to assault for nauts.

But they might change Big ’n’ Stompy though.

 Jidmah wrote:
But they might change Big ’n’ Stompy though.

Probably BigNStompy will make heavy weapons act as assault weapons in the fight phase, but I would prefer something smarter, like engaging from 2' away instead of 1', somethin shiny somethin new, praise gork n mork, GW take my teeth, Waaaagh ! (edit: sorry for this orky outburst)

Cause this is massive for us:

Blast weapons at 6+ models get a MINIMUM number of shots (say you roll a d6; your minimum would be 3).

At 11+ models, it's max shots.

Sadly, ammo runts push some of our smexy units into max shot range. I wonder if taking 10 flash gits + 2 runts is a good idea now.

I'm glad they at least made it tiered, but it's still pretty brutal. Even less reasons to field trukkboyz now. Might have to consider going all Nobz for my Trukks, which will no doubt be even more expensive than it is now.

the fact that the rule only mentions D6 makes me wonder if any D3 or multi-D3 weapons will even get Blast.
As is, if they dont specify that, D3 shot weapons score 3 hits w/o rolling on 6+ models. Which is...weird...
Which if the Mork's gun gets Blast would laughably buff that thing since it rolls 3D3....it would always do 9 hits against 6+ model units.
I have a feeling theres a massive oversight here lol... even if blast ends up being somewhat rare surely some weapons that do D3 should be considered blast.

Also full shots at 11+ is extremely irritating. Playing marines? Never happens to you! Playing literally anybody else? Watch it! really should be 21+.... nobody has ever viewed a 10man squad as a "horde"

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the fact that the rule only mentions D6 makes me wonder if any D3 or multi-D3 weapons will even get Blast.
As is, if they dont specify that, D3 shot weapons score 3 hits w/o rolling on 6+ models. Which is...weird...
Which if the Mork's gun gets Blast would laughably buff that thing since it rolls 3D3....it would always do 9 hits against 6+ model units.
I have a feeling theres a massive oversight here lol... even if blast ends up being somewhat rare surely some weapons that do D3 should be considered blast.

Also full shots at 11+ is extremely irritating. Playing marines? Never happens to you! Playing literally anybody else? Watch it! really should be 21+.... nobody has ever viewed a 10man squad as a "horde"

Doubtful d3 weapons get it. Not even all d6 weapons get it.

It's gw pushing elites hard. For orks i expect battlewagons and walkers be a thing. For my necrons join the existing trend in 8th and go troopless. Sisters drop extra members and just run 5 strong troop squads. Need hell of a stratagem to field more than 5 model units

tneva82 wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
the fact that the rule only mentions D6 makes me wonder if any D3 or multi-D3 weapons will even get Blast.
As is, if they dont specify that, D3 shot weapons score 3 hits w/o rolling on 6+ models. Which is...weird...
Which if the Mork's gun gets Blast would laughably buff that thing since it rolls 3D3....it would always do 9 hits against 6+ model units.
I have a feeling theres a massive oversight here lol... even if blast ends up being somewhat rare surely some weapons that do D3 should be considered blast.

Also full shots at 11+ is extremely irritating. Playing marines? Never happens to you! Playing literally anybody else? Watch it! really should be 21+.... nobody has ever viewed a 10man squad as a "horde"

Doubtful d3 weapons get it. Not even all d6 weapons get it.

It's gw pushing elites hard. For orks i expect battlewagons and walkers be a thing. For my necrons join the existing trend in 8th and go troopless. Sisters drop extra members and just run 5 strong troop squads. Need hell of a stratagem to field more than 5 model units

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/10/having-a-blastgw-homepage-post-1/

Sounds like d3 weapons can get it. It's just your dice roll counts as a 3 IF you roll less than a 3.

IE: D3 weapons get 2-3 shots on a unit size of 6-10.

They said on the live stream there will be rules that help hordes out. They reference terrain and outflank, and I somehow think cover saves are going to be improved for hordes. I saw someone suggest that you could do something like make cover (like ruins) give a base 4+ armour save, which would definitely give a nice free boost to infantry while removing the thing I find most annoying -- high AV save units benefit from cover while light infantry doesn't.

Although that would remove any bonus for heavy infantry.


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Also, may I just say, if Smasha guns get blast (which I expect the will), boy howdy will they mess up big feth you squads of heavy infantry.

So far terrain rules they have previewed are a) what has been in use for years b) help msu more than horde. Need huge change.

Also doubtful outflank is holy grail. Orks already have tellyporta that doesn"t restrict coming to sides.

D-Cannons are D3, and it was one of the examples given. For D3 it just means you always get three against any unit that's 6 or more.

yukishiro1 wrote:
D-Cannons are D3, and it was one of the examples given. For D3 it just means you always get three against any unit that's 6 or more.

Yeah by the wording is 3 attacks, not a 3 on the die... that's interesting.

That makes weird things like thunderfire cannons basically not getting any benefit at all (4d3 means you're minimum is 4 anyway), but that breakpoint at 11+ models turns that gak bonkers.

Seems like 6-10 models will usually be okay, and that single die, d6 blast weapons are the biggest beneficiaries of this rule.

man alive though, it'll be bad to be an 11+ squad.

Yeah, the penalty for running 6-10 is actually very small; it only increases the average by 1 shot for a 1DX weapon, and by virtually nothing for a 2DX weapon.

The penalty against 11+, however, is brutal for anything that's a D6 weapon or above.

I think squads of between 11 and 20 will pretty much just totally disappear. You'll see lots of units of 10, and occasionally units of 20-30, but nothing in-between.

I do not really see why this is a good change, to be honest. I don't see what it accomplishes in making the game better.

I think I'm going to go with nob squads with deff dreads and nauts over blobs of boys this edition based on what I'm seeing so far.