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Okay, so on blasts and weapons with *D* it does seem that the total can never be less than 3. Not each dice roll can't be lower than three. So pretty much worthless on a Morkanaughts Zappa vs a unit of 6 to 10.

Seems like no one can charge through terrain now, needing the distance to move up and down it unless it's less than an inch, unless the terrain has the breachable trait.

Objective markers are set at 40mm bases

Meganobs sitting on an objective in defensable terrain could set to defend as their charge reaction to get +1 to hit in melee.

It seems like getting cover is on a model by model basis which is helpful.

Probably more interesting things but those are what stood out to me with a quickish scan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
Can bikes and véhicules and monsters all climb buildings now ? Or did I miss something ?

Seems like the scaleable/breachable terrain trait is key for moving up and down ruins, and only infantry, beasts and swams can do it by the looks of things.

cody.d. wrote:


Meganobs sitting on an objective in defensable terrain could set to defend as their charge reaction to get +1 to hit in melee.

Obsec Mega Nobs anyone? (Deathskull).

Objective Secure is still a thing

tulun wrote:

cody.d. wrote:


Meganobs sitting on an objective in defensable terrain could set to defend as their charge reaction to get +1 to hit in melee.

Obsec Mega Nobs anyone? (Deathskull).

Objective Secure is still a thing

Oh yeah, the min squad of meganobz we've been seeing of late are kinda getting nasty. Skipping shooting to perform actions, sitting in cover to set to defend and possibly being in dense cover for +1 to save in shooting/melee. There's a lot to love in that bundle of metal plated ork.

Well the only terrain that reduces charge moves By 2in now are woods and craters...
Those are rare enough that it’s helpful.

cody.d. wrote:
Okay, so on blasts and weapons with *D* it does seem that the total can never be less than 3. Not each dice roll can't be lower than three. So pretty much worthless on a Morkanaughts Zappa vs a unit of 6 to 10.

Seems like no one can charge through terrain now, needing the distance to move up and down it unless it's less than an inch, unless the terrain has the breachable trait.

Objective markers are set at 40mm bases

Meganobs sitting on an objective in defensable terrain could set to defend as their charge reaction to get +1 to hit in melee.

It seems like getting cover is on a model by model basis which is helpful.

Probably more interesting things but those are what stood out to me with a quickish scan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
Can bikes and véhicules and monsters all climb buildings now ? Or did I miss something ?

Seems like the scaleable/breachable terrain trait is key for moving up and down ruins, and only infantry, beasts and swams can do it by the looks of things.

Breachable only lets infantry, beasts, and swarms move through walls, girder, chains, and foliage (so impediments to horizontal movement). Apparently you can't move through the floors with anything, but tanks can climb the outside of buildings to get to the second floor just as well as infantry.

Snipers got you down? Just charge a battle wagon up that building and crush them with the 'ol deathrolla!

Scaleable lets you pass through floors by the look of things. So ruins have scaleable and breachable. Letting inf, beasts and swams move up, down and through.

Ah, missed that one. I guess we'll just have to settle for the extended engagement range to clear rooftops with our tanks. Assuming that the warcom preview was correct (I don't see the relevant page in the leaks I have).

Thé page on extended engagement from what I read is missing, I concur

It will be make or break for us that rule, won’t it ? (On certain tables anyway)

So it could be possible to put a bunch of gretchin units in strategic reserves ("outflank") for only 1 CP (up to total power level 9) and combine this with a shooty ork unit like tankbusta's and use the grot shield stratagem to protect them. Blast rules could decrease the amount of infantry in armylists and with that also the amount of anti infantry shooting.

or straight up DS the TB and use them as one trick pony, doing their thing and than die. 15 Tb + 6 squigs, ATM, are just 14 PL, so 2 Cp as before. If they don´t go up in prices, you can still bring some grot shield.

HOWEVER the multiklan, triple battallion list is dead, at least for orks. So might aswell use that BM patrol for something more.

 Emicrania wrote:
or straight up DS the TB and use them as one trick pony, doing their thing and than die. 15 Tb + 6 squigs, ATM, are just 14 PL, so 2 Cp as before. If they don´t go up in prices, you can still bring some grot shield.

HOWEVER the multiklan, triple battallion list is dead, at least for orks. So might aswell use that BM patrol for something more.

BM patrol is 2 cp, I am honestly not sure it is worth it (shoot twice being another 2cp). Perhaps if our units are cheap enough, and we need an extra detachment to fit them all in, but we desperately need our CPs with all these sweet kustom jobs

Patrol + Deep Strike/Ouflank + Shooting Twice is 6 CPs. With More Dakka even 8. Grot shield on those bustas is another CP. 6-9 CPs is a huge investment.

Maybe it could be ok for armies that don't need kustom jobs and more than 1-2 CPs invested pre-game to buff the HQs but it still looks a too expensive combo.

I played BM 15 Tankbustas + 6 Bomb Squigs a lot in 8th edition, all with the full 6 CPs combo (Tellyporta+More Dakka+Showing Off) and it was rewarding, sometimes even game breaking, but for lists that had 18+ CPs to start with, while kustom jobs and strategems from SofB didn't exist.

yeah mixing clans is the same as mixing factions... so much for soup nerf :/

you'll just need an extra detachment. Faction doesnt matter for the CP cost.

RedNoak wrote:
yeah mixing clans is the same as mixing factions... so much for soup nerf :/

you'll just need an extra detachment. Faction doesnt matter for the CP cost.

You are still losing like ten percent of your Command Points or so. That officially qualifies as a big frikken deal.

Patrol is 2 cp, so instead of starting with 12, you start with 10. With the price increases rumoured, We will see if we can make 1 Bat 2000 pt armies work for orks.

We have:
3 slots for FA (squadrons) -> Can be 600 points EZ on a buggy heavy list
3 for Heavy -> another 600
3 for elites: Meganobz seem cool this edition if their price tag is ok, so id go for 300
3 for HQ: 300
200 left for troops

- - - > one bat

 Jidmah wrote:
the SSAG no longer being mandatory there are worse ways to use your warlord trait.

Why is this? I been a bit behind on the rules leaks.

 mikethefish wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
yeah mixing clans is the same as mixing factions... so much for soup nerf :/

you'll just need an extra detachment. Faction doesnt matter for the CP cost.

You are still losing like ten percent of your Command Points or so. That officially qualifies as a big frikken deal.

well as do monocodexes trying to mix clans/orWhateverTheyAreCalledForOtherFactions

So fielding for example:
a deathskull bat and a evilsunz patrol is the same as fielding a guard bat and a blood angels patrol (as far as CP costs go)

EDIT:
they missed the opportunity to implement a different subfaction cost... like if your detachment subfaction (ie marines, guard, tyranid, chaos space marines etc) differs from the subfaction of your warlod detachment, add +1CP to the detachment cost




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Billagio wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
the SSAG no longer being mandatory there are worse ways to use your warlord trait.

Why is this? I been a bit behind on the rules leaks.

not really a rules leak thing. its just that the SAG was heaviliy depended on CP's. And since orks generally get less CP's as before it isnt as effective as it was in 8th (because of the fixed CP's you get depending on game size).

1CP to get vigilus (+1CP to unlock the superSAG relic) and then 2CP for moredakka (+2CP's for shooting twice)
so to be as effective as before (i.e to delete something from the opponent you really dont like) you'll have to spend at half of your CP's (at a 2000point game)

RedNoak wrote:


not really a rules leak thing. its just that the SAG was heaviliy depended on CP's. And since orks generally get less CP's as before it isnt as effective as it was in 8th (because of the fixed CP's you get depending on game size).

1CP to get vigilus (+1CP to unlock the superSAG relic) and then 2CP for moredakka (+2CP's for shooting twice)
so to be as effective as before (i.e to delete something from the opponent you really dont like) you'll have to spend at half of your CP's (at a 2000point game)

CP investment, plus difficulty using it with more LOS blocking terrain.

I think the final call will come once people start throwing down minis on boards. If 18+ wound vehicles and aircraft are everywhere, SSAG is still our cheapest and best counter to that, for example.

Engaging vertical range (for assault) is 5'

Hurray for all our Close Combat stompy stuff that can't climb !!! no base = measure from hull, Jid time to let the BW rage out ! Metal waagh

Yes! A wagon modeled with the periscope can pretty much reach anything now.

The wartrike and the scrapjet will enjoy having 5" reach upwards as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Billagio wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
the SSAG no longer being mandatory there are worse ways to use your warlord trait.

Why is this? I been a bit behind on the rules leaks.

Multiple things:
- Less CP
- terrain reducing firing lanes (all ruins are 100% LoS blocking for the SSAG now)
- weaker character protection rules making a grot shield mandatory even against non-snipers
- less detachments and thus less clans and HQ slots
- vehicles being able to move at full speed and fire unhindered makes it much easier for them to flank and kill the SSAG.

It's still a great gun and you should always upgrade your SAG to SSAG when possible, but you really have to decide between having a SSAG, a KFF, Da Jump and da Killa Klaw now.

 Jidmah wrote:

- weaker character protection rules making a grot shield mandatory even against non-snipers

thats what i dont understand?! why? if its enough to have 3 models in front... isnt that the same deal for the SAG? just surround him with gretchin and he cant be shot at (like in 8th)

RedNoak wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

- weaker character protection rules making a grot shield mandatory even against non-snipers

thats what i dont understand?! why? if its enough to have 3 models in front... isnt that the same deal for the SAG? just surround him with gretchin and he cant be shot at (like in 8th)

Grots die really easily.

And before, you had your entire army inbetween the SSAG and the rest of their army. So he was functionally untargetable, except by snipers. Now t hat's really not true, as you are probably moving your army to the centre.

ahh ok, i forgot, he can be shot if he's the nearest, is still a thing... well i guess put a smasha gun in front of him aswell?

EDIT:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

RedNoak wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

- weaker character protection rules making a grot shield mandatory even against non-snipers

thats what i dont understand?! why? if its enough to have 3 models in front... isnt that the same deal for the SAG? just surround him with gretchin and he cant be shot at (like in 8th)

Even against weaker players in my group I have lost 40 gretchin and 15 lootas in a single shooting phase, and quite a few of those gretchin could only protect those lootas because of the grot shield wording. If someone clears out the gretchin/mek guns to one side of the SSAG it can be shot from that angle now, even by a predator sitting 48" away. Before, a unit of boyz, a flier or a buggy in your opponent's face would have kept the SSAG safe for the entire game.

RedNoak wrote:
ahh ok, i forgot, he can be shot if he's the nearest, is still a thing... well i guess put a smasha gun in front of him aswell?

EDIT:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

As with everything depends on points.
If boys don’t go up in points they might be useful still.
If They do just use grots.
They still might fix ghaz for 9th...too

RedNoak wrote:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Fun fact: Transports changing to disembarking "wholly within" combined with coherency rules and the new base size actually makes it physically impossible for a unit for 20 to disembark from a battlewagon

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Fun fact: Transports changing to disembarking "wholly within" combined with coherency rules and the new base size actually makes it physically impossible for a unit for 20 to disembark from a battlewagon

I think GW is really trying to tell us not to use Boys this edition.

Fun aside: If Storm Shield wargear is universally changed, Terminators now have a 1+ save (Effective 2++ invul), as die rolls can't be modified below a 1.

That's gonna get nerfed real fast.

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Fun fact: Transports changing to disembarking "wholly within" combined with coherency rules and the new base size actually makes it physically impossible for a unit for 20 to disembark from a battlewagon

Yeah, seeing that crushed my hopes for a mech list revival for Orks, at least one using boyz in any capacity.

Also, I feel like the storm shield rules will not give termies the +1 to their armour save, just the 4++ save, because these storm shields are explicitly called relic storm shields, so I could see non-relic ones just giving a 4++ save instead. Not like GW care if the older models aren't as competitive given how hard they're pushing primaris as direct replacements anyways.

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Fun fact: Transports changing to disembarking "wholly within" combined with coherency rules and the new base size actually makes it physically impossible for a unit for 20 to disembark from a battlewagon

That makes my 20 flashgitz increadibly sad...

 Grimskul wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
oh and can we all agree big blobs of boyz are dead for good? i really dont see any reason to take boyz anymore... the CC sucks, they cant move around as freely anymore and cant effectivly block space. gretchin for troops and nobz to smash things?

Yeah, I have the same feeling. Fun fact: Transports changing to disembarking "wholly within" combined with coherency rules and the new base size actually makes it physically impossible for a unit for 20 to disembark from a battlewagon

Yeah, seeing that crushed my hopes for a mech list revival for Orks, at least one using boyz in any capacity.

Also, I feel like the storm shield rules will not give termies the +1 to their armour save, just the 4++ save, because these storm shields are explicitly called relic storm shields, so I could see non-relic ones just giving a 4++ save instead. Not like GW care if the older models aren't as competitive given how hard they're pushing primaris as direct replacements anyways.

well on the plus side... are 1+ meganobz now a thing?

@haas
well just put em in a open topped battlewagon, on the other side.... a shame we cant use ammorunts as ablative wounds anymore (well.... effectively) because of blasts