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Of all the people I talked that tried out 9th, they said the same thing : outflank is for shooting. Period.
It makes me think that glass cannon are gonna be a thing this edition. Big time.

The only way i could see it being for melee is if the opponent happens to be dumb enough to be near the edge.
And even then, back to the usual 9" charge problem

Outflanking melee just doesnt work, too heavily dependent on what the opponent is doing. Outflanking shooting is the opposite: where the enemy is not is where i show up.

A couple things,

Mob up means you could get a 40 man slogging or jumped squad with 2 nobs w/ killsawsz each getting an additional attack. Makes it a more efficient platform for warpath. Getting the nobs in could make up for the loss of density in the engagement.

I'm not convinced on transports for boyz and I don't see the upside compared to Meganobz, nobz, burnas or Tankbustas. Small, weak units with questionable offense and excessive cost. Don't forget, Rhinos, Razorbacks, AND Repulsors went up in cost. There is no guarantee they're going down even a single point, or even that they won't increase, with no appreciable increase in effectiveness, and the new rule making them unable to use abilities in transports is not confidence inspiring.

The problem with transports is they just don't DO anything. It's lost points for something that is still slow due to disembark rules and there are no efficient shooting weapons. The only efficient transport weapon was the damn Deffrolla, which is RAW in a bad spot. Sad story considering it was a pretty splendid Primaris mulcher.

At least ascann Razorbacks were pretty slick flexible, and justified taking oldmarines in cheap MSUs.

Gunwagon just isn't conducive to assault.

Does that leave warkoptas? They at least have interesting ranged options and are relatively quite mobile.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
[...]
Some of my main take aways from this game:
-Generating CP each turn enabled me to sprinkle in a few stratagems without worrying about running out.
-Obscuring terrain can be a powerful tool you can use to your advantage. I was able to deny my opponents biggest threat from shooting me and lure them within charge range of my beat stick.
-The Kustom Job for the KBB and Wartrike aren't bad, they're worth the 1CP each. The MTSJ Kustom Job is incredible.
-Deathskulls on buggies is fantastic for skewing the odds in your favour, I consistently hit 3 shots for each of my Rivet Guns and Rokkit Kannons.
-Using vehicles and monsters in melee feels a lot stronger. If you pick your targets right you can tag them and leave them with no good choices.
-Being able to use a Patrol without it being a penalty was incredibly freeing, you can make a lot of interesting lists with a patrol.

On the whole I feel positive about 9th. I'm especially liking the new terrain rules and emphasis on a smaller board. There are a lot of ways that Orks can take advantage of this.

Great battle report, thank you for that

I have found the kustom job on the KBB to not do a whole lot in my games, what's your experience with this in specific?

Thanks

It's not great but it's not bad either. I triggered 1-2 mortal's a turn with it, which I think is worth 1 CP. I probably got more wounds from one activation of Da Burnin' Highway. If I ranked all the Kustom Jobs this would probably be a low tier one and I'd cut it to make room for a better choice but in the context of this army there wasn't much else to use the CP with too.
I feel a little bit more positive about Gorks Roar. The buff to range is non-trivial for both modes and the increase in Burna attacks opens up some plays. There's been a few times where I've been able to zip my Wartrike to a unit supported by a character and use the Burna to wittle the unit down to open up the character for a charge.

 Quackzo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
[...]
Some of my main take aways from this game:
-Generating CP each turn enabled me to sprinkle in a few stratagems without worrying about running out.
-Obscuring terrain can be a powerful tool you can use to your advantage. I was able to deny my opponents biggest threat from shooting me and lure them within charge range of my beat stick.
-The Kustom Job for the KBB and Wartrike aren't bad, they're worth the 1CP each. The MTSJ Kustom Job is incredible.
-Deathskulls on buggies is fantastic for skewing the odds in your favour, I consistently hit 3 shots for each of my Rivet Guns and Rokkit Kannons.
-Using vehicles and monsters in melee feels a lot stronger. If you pick your targets right you can tag them and leave them with no good choices.
-Being able to use a Patrol without it being a penalty was incredibly freeing, you can make a lot of interesting lists with a patrol.

On the whole I feel positive about 9th. I'm especially liking the new terrain rules and emphasis on a smaller board. There are a lot of ways that Orks can take advantage of this.

Great battle report, thank you for that

I have found the kustom job on the KBB to not do a whole lot in my games, what's your experience with this in specific?

Thanks

It's not great but it's not bad either. I triggered 1-2 mortal's a turn with it, which I think is worth 1 CP. I probably got more wounds from one activation of Da Burnin' Highway. If I ranked all the Kustom Jobs this would probably be a low tier one and I'd cut it to make room for a better choice but in the context of this army there wasn't much else to use the CP with too.
I feel a little bit more positive about Gorks Roar. The buff to range is non-trivial for both modes and the increase in Burna attacks opens up some plays. There's been a few times where I've been able to zip my Wartrike to a unit supported by a character and use the Burna to wittle the unit down to open up the character for a charge.

1-2 mortals a turn? Even with DS re-rolls, that's SUPER high. it should take you 3 KBB a round just to guarantee one.

tulun wrote:

1-2 mortals a turn? Even with DS re-rolls, that's SUPER high. it should take you 3 KBB a round just to guarantee one.

You're right that is high, that's just how the numbers worked out in that game. I did an estimate and got about 1 mortal wound a turn with 3 DS KBB's, slightly more and slightly less depending on the target but close to one for most cases.

 Quackzo wrote:
It's not great but it's not bad either. I triggered 1-2 mortal's a turn with it, which I think is worth 1 CP. I probably got more wounds from one activation of Da Burnin' Highway. If I ranked all the Kustom Jobs this would probably be a low tier one and I'd cut it to make room for a better choice but in the context of this army there wasn't much else to use the CP with too.
I feel a little bit more positive about Gorks Roar. The buff to range is non-trivial for both modes and the increase in Burna attacks opens up some plays. There's been a few times where I've been able to zip my Wartrike to a unit supported by a character and use the Burna to wittle the unit down to open up the character for a charge.

That pretty much matches my experience as well
I've started to leave the KBB's job at home and use burnin' highway instead since my build always was pretty CP hungry due to my reliance on warbikers.
I've also run into the annoying issue of those mortal wounds simply disappearing when shooting 2W models, as the next rivet cannon shot would kill a model whether it took a mortal wound or not.

Gork's roar is mandatory if you bring a wartrike IMO, without it you'll struggle to get your points worth out of it. If you don't have the CP to upgrade it, don't bring a wartrike.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
It's not great but it's not bad either. I triggered 1-2 mortal's a turn with it, which I think is worth 1 CP. I probably got more wounds from one activation of Da Burnin' Highway. If I ranked all the Kustom Jobs this would probably be a low tier one and I'd cut it to make room for a better choice but in the context of this army there wasn't much else to use the CP with too.
I feel a little bit more positive about Gorks Roar. The buff to range is non-trivial for both modes and the increase in Burna attacks opens up some plays. There's been a few times where I've been able to zip my Wartrike to a unit supported by a character and use the Burna to wittle the unit down to open up the character for a charge.

That pretty much matches my experience as well
I've started to leave the KBB's job at home and use burnin' highway instead since my build always was pretty CP hungry due to my reliance on warbikers.
I've also run into the annoying issue of those mortal wounds simply disappearing when shooting 2W models, as the next rivet cannon shot would kill a model whether it took a mortal wound or not.

Gork's roar is mandatory if you bring a wartrike IMO, without it you'll struggle to get your points worth out of it. If you don't have the CP to upgrade it, don't bring a wartrike.

In 9th MW allocation still happens before the "normal" wound allocation ?

The rules says it does 1 MW in addition to any other damage, so I always assumed that the rivet kills one primaris marine, then next one takes one mortal wound. That wounded marine is then killed by the next rivet, and the next one take a mortal wound, and so on. Those mortal wounds only matter when the enemy succeeds his saves or they are done by the last unsaved wound.

So you might actually get nothing out of it, despite rolling multiple sixes.

I'm contemplating a mix of horde and guns for 9th (though I never stick to a list for more than 2 games so it'll be for a couple games max).

Theory is to hold the horde in reserve, and use the guns to kill blast weapons, then bring in the horde. One horde could start on the board, and EGT back to full strength after the blasts have been dealt with.

I think you would have to take units dedicated to clearing out side screens if you want to use hordes from reserves.

Yeah thats how i saw the mortal wound thing going.
If it was the burnas doing mortals oh then we'd be talking!

Might as well save that CP for other stuff than the KBB bunch. KBBs are the cheapest buggies, might as well keep them as disposable as possible.
Also, like Quackzo implies, might as weel keep that CP for the the burna powaaa which likely has more impact

 addnid wrote:
Might as well save that CP for other stuff than the KBB bunch. KBBs are the cheapest buggies, might as well keep them as disposable as possible.
Also, like Quackzo implies, might as weel keep that CP for the the burna powaaa which likely has more impact

I don't think there is anyone in favor of buying the sizzly rivets upgrade here. On average, it does very few mortal wounds, it's unreliable and there is the issue with the gun itself invalidating those wounds when shooting at your preferred targets.

Burnin' highway, on the other hand, is vicious. Going from 4d3 S4 AP0 wounds to 12 S5 AP-1 is a huge step that will like cause more damage than sizzly rivets over the course of an entire game. And you can do it multiple times.
I was kind of sad to see that you can't trigger it during overwatch, but in 9th this might matter even less. Heck, with the stratagem still active from your turn, it might still be enough to deter charges without needing to spend a CP for overwatch.

That said, KBB are definitely not expendable throw-away units - initially I used them like that, but trying to keep them alive has proven to yield much better results than throwing them away as speed bumps or sacrificing them into a unit I don't want to shoot/charge. They are great value for their 80 points and you do good if you keep them around. The rivet guns can keep chipping wounds and models off durable units while the assorted other guns allow you to quickly clear infantry when you need it. In 9th they will be able to murder most units they are stuck in combat with, so there is no downside to always charging into things to limit their shooting and cause mortal wounds.
When you have a good idea of what they can do and what they can't do, you get a very reliable all-round unit. IMO KBB+ scrapjet and/or SJD is what every buggy list should be running.

KBB's to me are the "second wave" unit. Theyre terrible if theyre at the front line right away, too much stuff targets them right away because "flamer scary" even if its just regular flamers w/o burning cp, also the spiked ram potential.
The rivet gun has enough reach to have it sit in the back a turn or two, then surge forward. Usually by then i have dealt with some of the anti-vehicle and at a distance nobody fires at it even if its plinking off primaris here and there.

It still dies pretty quick once its in burna range but if i wait a turn it often lasts 2 turns at that range instead of insta-dead. They fill the role of mid-field objective grabber for me while the rest of my army just zergs the enemy.

It's actually the other way around for me - people tend to ignore them over the other threats I put on the table. I'd love if they kill them over my SJD or naut, they tend to go first these days.

I tend to face a lot of 24" or less range mean guns.
People in my area seem to be really against 36-48" anti-tank guns, minus a couple units (which i easily pop). They like to rely on Hellblasters or meltas for antitank.
So my mork usually only has 2-3 things that can even hurt it at a distance at most at the start. Its probably why i get such ridiculous mileage out of him lol.

So far i kinda feel like orks arent going to be a "gatekeeper army" in 9th anymore. Especially deathskullz we have so much power in securing objectives with tough cookies or hyper cheap units that denying us board control is going to be one hell of a chore w/o making yourself super weak to other armies.

Ork are weak star gods are where it's at. Although this will help me kill many Orkoids.

As long as their price stays wonderfully cheap I think the KBB make wonderful cav distraction units with the potential to put out some decent damage. They may be my fave of the vehicles, with the scrapjet coming a close second for it's versatility.

Am I correct that the Deafskulls Reroll ability does not work anymore when embarked in a trukk? And same goes for the ammo runts Reroll or the Freebootaz +1?

That would leave speedfreaks in a very bad place.

The freebootaz wouldn't because it has a range and anything embarked wouldn't have a range because its not on the board.

The other two would work.

Freebootas passengers get the +1 if their transport is within 24" of a unit that has killed something. The passengers do not project that aura themselves.

9th has not changed this.

What about innate re-rolls like Deathskullz triple re-roll or Tankbustas re-rolls against vehicles?

 Jidmah wrote:
Freebootas passengers get the +1 if their transport is within 24" of a unit that has killed something. The passengers do not project that aura themselves.

9th has not changed this.

So you say nothing has changed in 9th? Sure hope it's not as I am building a list with rokkit-nobs in trukks and an in the process of painting up 45 nobs.

They did fudge up the wording to make it sound like literally nothing affects embarked units (open topped still confers modifiers as it specifically says it does, as the main rule says has to be called out)

That better be an oversight, yet another thing to email them about. That makes transports even LESS useful, and they already were kinda pointless.

"Units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way
while they are embarked. "

They really, REALLY need an extra comment there saying "...except by their own rules printed on their datasheet or wargear"

Its bad enough that an aura suddenly disappeared when embarked and psykers cant cast out of a vehicle, but denying any rule the unit has? that makes even less than no sense. I'm confident thats an oversight and will be in the first faq, dont lose any sleep over it.

 Blackie wrote:
What about innate re-rolls like Deathskullz triple re-roll or Tankbustas re-rolls against vehicles?

Stupid rules with stupid wording. The intention is probably for it to work, but it can be interpreted as not working.

9th Ed really hasn’t got me psyched at all. I was psyched for 5th, 6th, 7th (who would have known...), and especially for 8th... but this one... too much dodgy stuff on small tables... It will really be hard to keep an open mind. Hopefully it will all turn out ok. Unlike 8th it looks like this edition will require a bit of perseverance

Perhaps they're going to reword the open topped rule? Allow a units own abilities to affect them? Again this is one of those day 1 FAQ type issues. It does seem intended to stop people putting debuffs or buffs on a unit in a vehicle, but also stops a unit's own rules from working. But then again, what defines a unit's "Abilities" Could you call the automatically hitting text on a flamer an ability? What about the dying on a 1 from a plasma weapon? (yes that's going into rule lawyering territory but bloody hell we know someone will try and pull that during a game somewhere!)

 addnid wrote:
9th Ed really hasn’t got me psyched at all. I was psyched for 5th, 6th, 7th (who would have known...), and especially for 8th... but this one... too much dodgy stuff on small tables... It will really be hard to keep an open mind. Hopefully it will all turn out ok. Unlike 8th it looks like this edition will require a bit of perseverance

I played a game of mock-9th with my DG and really feels like a completely different game with much more depth and a bit more complexity. Picking and scoring secondaries is a whole new layer added to the game, there is more thought required towards screening an killing characters and the mission I played actually forced some pretty interesting strategical decisions in regard to what objectives you prioritize. It also seems highly unlikely that you will be scoring 90 points in a game, if you get 15-20 VP for primary and secondary combined in a single turn that might already put yourself well ahead of your opponent,

So while units themselves changed little (outside of characters) in regards to what is good at what, I think we will be looking at a whole new game when it comes to what is happening on the tabletop itself. The smaller table combined with missions forcing units into the middle also did wonders to mitigate the primaris extra range the have compared to pretty much everything DG have - if plague marines can pull off charges easily, so will ork boyz.

One interesting thing is that slay the warlord no longer automatically gives a reward unless they picked the secondary - which (IMO) isn't a great one to begin with. So putting warlord traits on warbosses or wartrikes might become more viable.

 Jidmah wrote:

It also seems highly unlikely that you will be scoring 90 points in a game, if you get 15-20 VP for primary and secondary combined in a single turn that might already put yourself well ahead of your opponent,

So those +10VP for being 100% battle ready may actually have a significant impact on the game.

 Jidmah wrote:

One interesting thing is that slay the warlord no longer automatically gives a reward unless they picked the secondary - which (IMO) isn't a great one to begin with. So putting warlord traits on warbosses or wartrikes might become more viable.

This is good to hear as both those HQs basically ask to be played aggressively to do something other than providing their auras. Warboss always dies in my games as he cannot be a coward and stay out of the fight, he has to set the example for da horde A super buffed suicide warboss has been one my favorite units in 8th, he'll be even more in 9th.