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My list just went up 234 points.....
Gotta see that 1day FAQ and see whattafuck were they thinking with FG , Grots, SSAG and Ghaz. But it feels like I won't field 125 grots no more.....

Doubtful but at this price point grots and killa kans and Grot tanks can all benefit from clan tactics and be okay...
smashas would be a bit stronger then they should but bubble chukka and KMB And traktor would be okay.
To be fair I don’t expect many codex FAQs to make drastic changes

holy oversights....FW Chinorks got silly strong.

Rattler cannons went to 0pts for some reason. A Chinork can take 2 of them and now doesnt suffer movement penalties.

Thats a sub100pt dedicated transport spitting out 24" 4D6 S5 AP2 D3D shots, plus whatever inside its opentopped capacity.

Theres no way they intended that, i bet they forgot the rattler was an option. Thats almost as ridiculous as 7th Wave Serpents lol

That’s good but Fw dataslates had a lot of updates. Rattler cannons may not be an option.

Chinorks are also relatively fragile and not quite wave serpents lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
holy oversights....FW Chinorks got silly strong.

Rattler cannons went to 0pts for some reason. A Chinork can take 2 of them and now doesnt suffer movement penalties.

Thats a sub100pt dedicated transport spitting out 24" 4D6 S5 AP2 D3D shots, plus whatever inside its opentopped capacity.

Theres no way they intended that, i bet they forgot the rattler was an option. Thats almost as ridiculous as 7th Wave Serpents lol

I wonder if they lost it from their wargear section? cause yeah, I saw that, that won't stick. Cause jesus, that would melt.

The one I believe more is the Dakka gun version. 95 points eh? Makes the argument with it vs trukk much harder.

I can't believe flash gits went from 24 -> 32 ... they *just* dropped them 6 points in Decemember.

Edit: Supa Lobba variant of the Garg squiggoth went down a bit. Shame it costs you 3 CP, but that thing is gonna wreck now that it can move and shoot, and hopefully still has it's cool howdah ability (IE: It can still shoot out of combat at any target, and so can its passengers)

Flashgitz were killing too many primaris, had to fix that

Smasha Gunz only went up 7 points. That's a big win imo.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Flashgitz were killing too many primaris, had to fix that

True.

Tankbustas the same. Well that's something.

Kila Kans went from 35 PPM -> 50 PPM with Big Shoota. Christ. Does this kill the model?

Smashs guns 33 -> 40.

My favourite variant of the Deff Dread is up 83 -> 100. (Klaw, saw, KMB, KMB). I wonder if the skorcha will be worth it on a sponson, though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
holy oversights....FW Chinorks got silly strong.

Rattler cannons went to 0pts for some reason. A Chinork can take 2 of them and now doesnt suffer movement penalties.

Thats a sub100pt dedicated transport spitting out 24" 4D6 S5 AP2 D3D shots, plus whatever inside its opentopped capacity.

Theres no way they intended that, i bet they forgot the rattler was an option. Thats almost as ridiculous as 7th Wave Serpents lol

That's a funny one. Gunswaptime on my three Chinorks of this isn't swapped.

I am a bit sad nobs are +3 ppm. Building a 45 non army at the moment. It will never be on par with my buggy-heavy speedfreaks.

Hoping for a new ork codex in November to fix some of these issues but doubtful we are usualy one of the later codex drops.

For MANz it's obviously killsaws, but other flavors of Nobz, Power Klaws worth taking over Big Choppas at 10pts now?

Pending the FW datasheets, I think there might be some potential to start running FW units again based on these points. The Garg Squiggoth with supa-lobbas only went up 14 points, that's not much in the scheme of things. Assuming it gets the blast rule + its ability to ignore the heavy penalty actually makes it seem worth while.

Boyz going from 7-8 seems like an implicit buff to me, same with kommandos going from 8-9. Gretchin going from 3-5 makes sense with how they want 5 to be the baseline but Gretchin aren't a 5 ppm model as they are at the moment. If they get kulturs and stratagems I would think so. I think we'll see a swing to boyz being the staple troop and large units of kommandos won't feel like a bad idea. Stormboyz and Burnaboyz I feel less enthused about. It might be that a 12" flying infantry unit has a lot more value in the smaller battlefields with denser terrain. Burnaboyz might also be implicitly better with the smaller table size but imo they either need to cost as much as kommandos or receive some kind of buff.

Flash Gitz and Meganobz are both units that I always feel like are on the cusp of being competitive but are always slightly off. The relative increase in cost to Flash Gitz hurts this a lot. In contrast of this the killsaw Meganobz might be a valid unit, especially with the emphasis on holding objectives. I can also see arguments for MSU Meganobz to take advantage of Deathskulls, or units of 10 to take advantage of their relative tankiness.

Tankbustas staying the same number of points is confusing but I'll take it.

Trukks being 60 points is interesting to me, Trukk boyz is something I've been wanting to do and it might just be that the cost is relatively low enough to warrant it.

I have a bunch more misc thoughts but the vibe I'm getting is we'll be seeing more Boyz, MANz, vehicles, and maybe FW. So probably see armies that look like the photos and art, with a small horde of boyz backed by some dreads being lead by a few characters.

Madjob wrote:
For MANz it's obviously killsaws, but other flavors of Nobz, Power Klaws worth taking over Big Choppas at 10pts now?

Why? Take doubke kill saw for 15 ppm.

Hell, a regular Kill saw at 10 is better than a PK. They are the exact same cost.

For a Nob Squad... I dunno. The problem is they are what.. 27 ppm with PK? That's a lot of points for a 4+ save model. You might as well upgrade to a Mega Nob for the 2+ save, +1 wound, and awesome hit em harder strat.

Madjob wrote:
For MANz it's obviously killsaws, but other flavors of Nobz, Power Klaws worth taking over Big Choppas at 10pts now?

For the nob in a unit of boyz I could see myself taking the Power Klaw over the Big Choppa now. Allows you to let the boyz take on more varied targets. For a unit of nobz or nob bikers I would probably use big choppas. It's significantly cheaper across the whole unit and you can lean into the law of large numbers to overcome any of the Big Choppa's short comings. Nob Bikers can also get +1 to their strength from a stratagem in Saga of the Beast which closes the gap even more.

I'm now keen to take a gargantuan squiggoth full of flashgits... lots of dakka, lots of wounds, and the flashgits can shoot even in combat... lose 1 BS for moving and shooting but still pretty effective.

I've been wanting to build some warkoptas for a while, I love the rattler cannon profile. Guess my trukkas are going airborne...

 some bloke wrote:
I'm now keen to take a gargantuan squiggoth full of flashgits... lots of dakka, lots of wounds, and the flashgits can shoot even in combat... lose 1 BS for moving and shooting but still pretty effective.

I've been wanting to build some warkoptas for a while, I love the rattler cannon profile. Guess my trukkas are going airborne...

I'm literally in the process of painting a Garg Squig Just got the wash done. I haven't done the Howdah yet at all, I wanted to see how everything came out.

But yeah, legit, double Supa Lobba Garg squiggoth seems terrifying.

Edit: Double Rocket Deff Koptas are now 44 -> 45. They came out quite rosy.

Yeah, this seems like a pretty brutal hit to Ork lists. Not only do we no longer have more base CP to deal with an incredibly CP hungry army, but we also can't take advantage of the new subkulturs without paying a premium and points-wise our troop tax spiked a hell of a lot higher. Looks like we're going to have 20-60 boyz sprinkled with a butt-ton of vehicles in our new lists nowadays.

tulun wrote:
Edit: Double Rocket Deff Koptas are now 44 -> 45. They came out quite rosy.

Unfortunately they're 50ppm. (25 + 25)

The Boyz, flash Gitz and Loota hits are all pretty tough to take in light of Intercessor and Eradicator options for SM. Also points increases for BW's as well. Trukk boyz are the way to go maybe, though they'll fold like a wet paper towel too.

I hold some hope that we'll at least see a couple of new kits this year. Hopefully a warboss kit and a dedicated MBT thanks to these rumour engine tid bits.

PiñaColada wrote:

tulun wrote:
Edit: Double Rocket Deff Koptas are now 44 -> 45. They came out quite rosy.

Unfortunately they're 50ppm. (25 + 25)

Ah shoot, you're right.

Honestly, Trukks might be really useful straight up for DS screening. They are only like 70 points now? better than spending 50 points on grots. They can't screen ON field as well, obviously, but for DS, they are great. Plus if they eat up your opponents anti tank, all the better.

A lot of these points changes were fairly obvious.

It was obvious they were going to hike Boyz and the Souped up Shokka, which you are already paying a premium for with the command point changes.

Hate to say I told you so but I feel we are dead on arrival as a faction until we get a codex.

Really don't understand why Gorkanauts and Morkanauts are still do damned expensive, nobody takes them and its such a crying shame for such a fun model.

Pickled_egg wrote:
A lot of these points changes were fairly obvious.

It was obvious they were going to hike Boyz and the Souped up Shokka, which you are already paying a premium for with the command point changes.

Hate to say I told you so but I feel we are dead on arrival as a faction until we get a codex.

Really don't understand why Gorkanauts and Morkanauts are still do damned expensive, nobody takes them and its such a crying shame for such a fun model.

Mork w/ KFF went from 310 -> 340. 10% point hike is nothing... At BS4 now, it's probably quite good. It can even leave combat, being of the few units now with this ability.

The SSAG I wonder if it's a misprint. Nothing else can take the SAG in the codex, it should be included in the cost. Quite odd. Tbh though, the relic SAG is probably worth that. Just don't bother with the other 2 anymore.

Do we feel a DS brigade is possibly competitive? Or is 6 troops too much to ask for now?

The FAQs are out but even though GW says the ork one was updated today, it seemingly wasn't? It's still the old font and they haven't addressed the weird stuff from Saga of the beast..

Guess I'll check back in later

Edit: Dendarien: Yeah, 6 troop slots are going to be a rough tax from here on in. I think maneuvering around slots in a battalion is the best bet most likely

Yea it looks like they messed that up, but glancing through other FAQs makes clear GW's intent with rules that cause a roll to be modified further than +1/-1 without stacking - they'll never do more than +1/-1, they just help counteract each other.

So non-ES Shokkjump Dragstas get to fire on 4+ whether they advanced or not (+2 to hit, -1 for advancing, caps at +1), ES Dragstas get left out in the cold.

I don't think Orks are viable until next codex . I missed the Grots at 5 ppm. I need a real pause and see what I'll play this edition. I might skip playing anything for a while and just organise tournaments and leagues.
I mean 100 Grots is 500 points.
Please don't attempt to dodge the swear filter

we think we have it bad, a genestealer is now the same points as an intercessor (20)

These points changes are absolute comedy. I don't see that any thought to balance has been given in the slightest.

Yeah, this initial release feels more like "We want marines to win" than it did when they got a new codex.
Everybody except vanilla marines feels like they got slapped with a wet donkey dong. So many unusual price hykes in addition to various nerfs via core rules, yet marines almost untouched and also got all that ridiculous new stuff.

Even other imperial, non-marine armies got shafted. Admech heavy options are mega expensive now for some reason, rangers got neutered randomly, and all the new stuff got surprisingly neutered before they even did anything lol.

The literal only thing orks got that didnt seem to piss us off was the Chinork thing, which 100% was a mistake and they'll probably fix that the moment they realize it. All of our stuff went up big time in price when most of it was overpriced in the first place.

 Emicrania wrote:
I don't think Orks are viable until next codex . I missed the Grots at 5 ppm. I need a real pause and see what I'll play this edition. I might skip playing anything for a while and just organise tournaments and leagues.
I mean 100 Grots is 500 points.
Go F U C K yourself.

According to Goonhammer, we are losers! One of the very few.

But that was largely based on the Shock Attack Gun, which went up 50%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ork FAQ up!

*Page 106, 108 and 121 – Deff rolla, Abilities
Change to read:
‘Each time an attack is made with this weapon, the bearer has a
WS characteristic of 2+ for that attack.’

*Page 101 – Shokkjump Dragsta, Grot Gunner and
Targetin’ Squig
Change to read:
‘Each time this model makes an attack with its kustom shokk
rifle, this model has a BS characteristic of 3+ for that attack.’

THEY DIDN'T SCREW THEM OVER!

They fixed it, im seeing changes now.

Shokkjump Dragsta counts as BS3 when firing its Kustom gun
Deffrolla counts as WS2 when attacking with that weapon.

...

...
they nerfed....big n stompy... what...
*Page 110 and 111 – Morkanaut and Gorkanaut, Big ‘n’ Stompy
Change to read:
‘This model is eligible to declare a charge in a turn in which it
Fell Back.’
they cant shoot if they fall back. What the what?