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2020/07/13 17:21:12
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Don' t forget the impact of blast rules on SSAG. SSAG shooting on blob of anything with 10+ models shoots 12 x s7(random) ap-5 d6. It means, it' s almost autokill for another hordes or semi-hordes. 10 squad of terminators?.....
And it' s pretty hard to kill him, if you use the standard set of tricks (kff, grots in the basement, grot oiler....). So some significant point increase is ok IMHO. But so much? Well...we' ll see.
Shokkjump Dragsta counts as BS3 when firing its Kustom gun Deffrolla counts as WS2 when attacking with that weapon.
...
... they nerfed....big n stompy... what... *Page 110 and 111 – Morkanaut and Gorkanaut, Big ‘n’ Stompy Change to read: ‘This model is eligible to declare a charge in a turn in which it Fell Back.’ they cant shoot if they fall back. What the what?
I feel like they're trying to incentivize you shooting into combat and forcing you to use the new mechanics by changing it so they can only charge after falling back. That or this is their attempt at trying to make Blood Axes more competitive? No idea.
I'm glad battlewagons and SJD were appropriately changed to not have the stupid limitation of only +1/-1 mods to hit. The real question is if unit abilities still work when embarked on a vehicle, since that will make or break tankbustas and mech Deffskullz lists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 17:33:11
2020/07/13 17:47:51
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Oh good, I'm glad, not sure why we got special exception but I'll take it. Every other instance I'd found of natural +/- effects greater than 1 had all been addressed with the same copy and paste response, with army specific examples of how they are applied given afterward.
2020/07/13 17:51:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Ultrasmurf and Harlequins seem to be th eonly ones that can still fall back and shoot.
Even knights and the Stompa got the shooting part taken out.
So...units that already were lackluster got even more lackluster. Given that all of them have blast weapons.
Gork (the one exception) doesnt care since its guns are all non-blast, but the Mork cant fire its main gun and cant just walk away to fire it either. Mork absolutely doesnt want combat unless you are confident he'll get out of it to shoot the KMZ.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/13 17:58:22
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
No saga of beast faq So the big Mek w Kff is all kinds of messed up
And da boomer can’t use periscope yet
And ghaz Waagh still doesn’t help him
And Bomdakka snazzwagon relic weapon still kinda sucks
I’m getting the feeling GW really doesn’t care about orks
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 18:17:56
2020/07/13 18:19:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Be kinda weird for Nauts to have titanic and not be a LoW.
Thats always been their shtick, theyre not "quite" titanic, but pretty dang close. Hence, the big n stompy rule.
Willing to bet someone went through and changed all the rules for that to exclude shooting
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/13 18:22:44
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
gungo wrote: No saga of beast faq So the big Mek w Kff is all kinds of messed up And da boomer can’t use periscope yet And ghaz Waagh still doesn’t help him And Bomdakka snazzwagon relic weapon still kinda sucks
I’m getting the feeling GW really doesn’t care about orks
I mean, they literally had the wrong FAQ for Orks for a good bit before finally putting up the right one, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
The whole "not locking tanks up in CC" preview specified grots for some reason (that's almost never likely to happen outside of some very fringe cases or bad gameplay decisions), so there's definitely someone in the rules team that has some bad experiences with Orks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 18:23:45
2020/07/13 18:25:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Bloodaxe nauts are still a very bad thing. Realistically its rare for a naut to ever fall back, i think ive done it twice in 8th and i usually have a naut in every list. Whatever they face either flatout dies or they never saw combat anyway. Sacrificing all that speed (evilsunz) or dakka (badmoonz/deathskullz) for getting back our fallback+shoot is a real bad trade.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 18:25:54
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/07/13 18:34:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I have a feeling all PAFAQs, ones that hadn't had an 8e FAQ and those that had, will probably arrive as a lump as well. We're still just under 2 weeks from launch, and it's no surprise the main codex FAQs dropped first.
2020/07/13 18:39:39
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Harlequins and Thousand Sons are apparently the other big winners from being affected very lightly from the points changes.
I think the biggest problem is there is a clear lack of nuance for a lot of the price hikes, where models that clearly should have stayed the same or kept some measure of the price cuts they got from CA 2019 (looking at you Flash Gitz) were hit the hardest by being spiked up so badly with the points increases. I feel like since they said that everyone was going up, they did it out of obligation more than by a case-by-case basis.
2020/07/13 18:45:13
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Grimskul wrote: Harlequins and Thousand Sons are apparently the other big winners from being affected very lightly from the points changes.
I think the biggest problem is there is a clear lack of nuance for a lot of the price hikes, where models that clearly should have stayed the same or kept some measure of the price cuts they got from CA 2019 (looking at you Flash Gitz) were hit the hardest by being spiked up so badly with the points increases. I feel like since they said that everyone was going up, they did it out of obligation more than by a case-by-case basis.
Grimskul wrote: Harlequins and Thousand Sons are apparently the other big winners from being affected very lightly from the points changes.
I think the biggest problem is there is a clear lack of nuance for a lot of the price hikes, where models that clearly should have stayed the same or kept some measure of the price cuts they got from CA 2019 (looking at you Flash Gitz) were hit the hardest by being spiked up so badly with the points increases. I feel like since they said that everyone was going up, they did it out of obligation more than by a case-by-case basis.
Harlequins got some fun stuff in thier PA... but they are far from a viable army even if they didn’t get any points increases... at best they are a nice ally detachment and that’s not really great in 9th.
Thousand sons rubrics got a minor increase compared to similar chaos marine armies... they are a nice army but I can’t see them running mono either...
Basically both those armies didn’t get wrecked on points increases but they weren’t strong before either.
I’m also going by the team tactic video we’re the guys said ad mech is absolutely brutal
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bigdoza wrote: I was hella stoked to hop back in for 9th.
I duno if hella feels appropriate anymore lol.
How could they raise ghazgulls points already sigh
He could have stayed 285...
his issue is more goff warlord trait sucks
Goff clan bonus sucks
And his wagon doesn’t work on him
If the goff rocker was usable I might have been able to make a goff detachment fun.
Also wagon banner nob is like crazy expensive now
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 19:34:35
2020/07/13 21:15:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Yea it's absurd. When I had the optimistic mindset that 2-4 overcosted units might see a point drop as they did for Space Marines, one of the first ones that came to mind was the Waaagh! Banner Nob, who rivals a Warboss in price with a statline that is worse by several miles just for a buff that gets passed out like candy among other armies.
2020/07/13 21:24:13
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Seems nuts to me. Nobs on warbikes only went up 2 ppm. The Big Choppa variant at 40 ppm seems to be a bit of a steal comparatively. Not like the Warbikes bigger footprint matters much anymore, with coherency, and multi charge nerfs.
2020/07/13 21:45:06
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Yeah big choppa nobs on warbikes are "just" 40ppm now, which is looking somewhat decent (and for a lot of us, they're also in a less crowded slot). I ran them quite a bit in the tail end of 8th but they weren't worth 38ppm, now they might be pretty decent?
I'm honestly thinking half of them should be rocking killsaws now though. You're getting quite a bit of killing power for an extra 5 points. It'll be interesting to try out but they're so flimsy when you actually face people who bring a lot of D3 weaponry..
2020/07/13 22:18:01
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
gungo wrote: And da boomer can’t use periscope yet
No one seems to have any problems counting any and all relic weapons as whatever weapons they replaced unless it's about the boomer. Just have a look at every game the playtesters plays with Death Guard, they don't even question that the daemon prince the new relic sword can use the stratagem to strike three additional times with it.
Just shoot it twice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Warbikers went from meh to back to worthless... probably giving nob bikers are try again since they are sitting in elite.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 22:21:30
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/13 22:38:24
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah big choppa nobs on warbikes are "just" 40ppm now, which is looking somewhat decent (and for a lot of us, they're also in a less crowded slot). I ran them quite a bit in the tail end of 8th but they weren't worth 38ppm, now they might be pretty decent?
I'm honestly thinking half of them should be rocking killsaws now though. You're getting quite a bit of killing power for an extra 5 points. It'll be interesting to try out but they're so flimsy when you actually face people who bring a lot of D3 weaponry..
yeah unless you come across some primaris outriders, those will outclass them in dakka and crump their faces off in CC
well idk... still thinking freebootaz (without the gitz but with lots of SJD and MANz) or DS are the way to go. shame for the morkanaught thought cant hide and cant move forward...
so the real question is... 80points for orks or 50 for gretchin? which gonna be our mandetory troops choice?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 22:39:30
2020/07/13 22:48:36
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
MSU units of warbikers may still have a purpose. With how easy it could be to tag units, a lot of factions have lost their ability to fallback and shoot with flying units. Tagging a leman russ still has a lot of value. And if someone is silly enough to park 2 or more units in a building you can dash in, only get overwatched by both and make it into engagement range with both levels. As long as they don't have decent melee it could be worth the trade as you control their movement.
2020/07/13 22:53:01
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah big choppa nobs on warbikes are "just" 40ppm now, which is looking somewhat decent (and for a lot of us, they're also in a less crowded slot). I ran them quite a bit in the tail end of 8th but they weren't worth 38ppm, now they might be pretty decent?
I'm honestly thinking half of them should be rocking killsaws now though. You're getting quite a bit of killing power for an extra 5 points. It'll be interesting to try out but they're so flimsy when you actually face people who bring a lot of D3 weaponry..
yeah unless you come across some primaris outriders, those will outclass them in dakka and crump their faces off in CC
well idk... still thinking freebootaz (without the gitz but with lots of SJD and MANz) or DS are the way to go. shame for the morkanaught thought cant hide and cant move forward...
so the real question is... 80points for orks or 50 for gretchin? which gonna be our mandetory troops choice?
80 points for the boys. Easily.
11 wounds, way less leadership issues, can benefit from <CLAN> staff, offer waaaagh energy, can actually hurt gak, can take special weapons...
2020/07/13 23:02:52
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
PiñaColada wrote: Yeah big choppa nobs on warbikes are "just" 40ppm now, which is looking somewhat decent (and for a lot of us, they're also in a less crowded slot). I ran them quite a bit in the tail end of 8th but they weren't worth 38ppm, now they might be pretty decent?
I'm honestly thinking half of them should be rocking killsaws now though. You're getting quite a bit of killing power for an extra 5 points. It'll be interesting to try out but they're so flimsy when you actually face people who bring a lot of D3 weaponry..
yeah unless you come across some primaris outriders, those will outclass them in dakka and crump their faces off in CC
well idk... still thinking freebootaz (without the gitz but with lots of SJD and MANz) or DS are the way to go. shame for the morkanaught thought cant hide and cant move forward...
so the real question is... 80points for orks or 50 for gretchin? which gonna be our mandetory troops choice?
....
You can do a lot more with ork boyz
Grots had 1 purpose... cheap screens be it actual screens or grot shields...
They are expensive now making them no longer cheap screens...
At best you can take a single min squad of grots if you really want to use grot shields on a character like SSAG and want to save a few points.. but honestly orks are still more useful...
2020/07/13 23:05:06
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Tomsug wrote: Don' t forget the impact of blast rules on SSAG. SSAG shooting on blob of anything with 10+ models shoots 12 x s7(random) ap-5 d6. It means, it' s almost autokill for another hordes or semi-hordes. 10 squad of terminators?.....
And it' s pretty hard to kill him, if you use the standard set of tricks (kff, grots in the basement, grot oiler....). So some significant point increase is ok IMHO. But so much? Well...we' ll see.
Except in 9th it will be easier to kill any character. 12 shots sounds amazing until you realize you spent a relic slot and a CP for the detachment unlock to get that, and then you are firing at BS 5+, and that you are orks and don't get "re-roll miss" like other factions may. So yeah 12 shots, you will likely get 4 hits on 11+ models not 10+. The reality then sets in you likely should have just shot it at some vehicle. Against units of 6-10 you get minimum 3 hits for the 2d6 roll.
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
