No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**PiñaColada**

It's not worth it (also it's 210 points now, sans big shootas). I've tried to make it work but even with Visions in da smoke it's still nowhere near good enough. If you could place that gun on a gunwagon it'd be a completely different story but I just use the model as a "da boomer" stand-in (as it looks so much better).

Just take da boomer or tankbustas in a trukk, either of those options are vastly superior sadly.

**Blackie**

Anyone positive about the old little mek? At 30 pts is the cheapest unit in the codex and especially with the Deathskullz bonuses or in a full walkers/vehicles list it looks a legit option for scoring some VPs. The downside is being a character that is very easy to kill if targeted, but most of our characters are actually very vulnerable.

**PiñaColada**

He's pretty decent for actions (such as planting the flag) should you go that scoring route. It's still fairly easy to hide characters from being shot and he's a low value target. His repair ability most likely won't be a factor every round (and is pretty mediocre anyways) so it's not like you lose much.

But considering how expensive troops are now, his 8th ed use of being an elite slot filler is most likely diminished. Him being super cheap could still be an okay use of eating overwatch on something that would other murk an expensive unit (as overwatch is now one-use only, even if you pay the CP, so even if he fails his charge/dies the next unit can't be overwatch anyways).

**Gruxz**

Mek's might have a role in a battlewagon with deff rolla. Smash it into a target and you can still fire with your kustom slugga. With damage of d6 it's a nice finisher, especially with deathskulls. If he happens to finish that unit, your battlewagon can charge another target.

**tulun**

Jidmah wrote:
My boomer hasn't died once yet. Despite me sticking big shootas on it to bait people into shooting it, it's never in competition for target priority when a naut, planes, bikers/MANz and a bunch of buggies are on the table.

I really wish lobbas weren't 20 points, for 10 I'd add it as well.

Have you stood an SSAG by it?

50% of popping + 50% chance of outright killing the SSAG (25% total). Oiler mitigates that to 16.67%.

If Da Boomer really is a way lower priority than a 'Naut / buggies, that's probably the most efficient way of doing it then.

Otherwise, as long as you can sort of hide a vehicle even like a single Mek Gun, you could probably have your SSAG pretend like it's 8th edition. Hide a mek gun behind cover, SSAG toe into terrain, then have him fire away. As long as the Mek Gun lives, he's basically in 8th.

**Quackzo**

Blackie wrote:
Anyone positive about the old little mek? At 30 pts is the cheapest unit in the codex and especially with the Deathskullz bonuses or in a full walkers/vehicles list it looks a legit option for scoring some VPs. The downside is being a character that is very easy to kill if targeted, but most of our characters are actually very vulnerable.

Low key one of my favourite ork units, fluff wise, but have used it a lot for ticking boxes in brigades. In total its had a 1 point increase, or 2 point increase if you include grot oiler. Thats a pretty small increase compared to other units.
From personal experience, Kustom Mega-Slugga is a good weapon and if you go wide with vehicles (eg dreads or buggies) then the repair ability will be relevant. Only issue is range but 9th is shrinking the board and I can see this guy assisting with controlling the mid board in novel ways.
Killsaw isn't worth the points on this guy. 2 attacks doesn't cut it and he's strength 4. If he had a nob profile of strength 5 and 3 attacks I'd consider it.

**gungo**

Jidmah wrote:
gungo wrote:
Basically I think we didn’t fare well points wise.
How well we do this edition depend on the meta.
Lots of vehicle and monsters we have a few decent options
Lots of 6-10 sized elite squads like custodes and primarus supported with ad mech/guard Plasma/melta spam shooting we will have issues and might need to counter Meta into ork boy hordes camping objectives and trying to force them to remove us.

Our buggies are nice but cheap plasma melta spam is going to counter it.

I face a lot of plasma in my meta, one of my most common opponents is a DA player, so go figure
In general, I don't think that plasma is an effective way to counter buggies. Getting hit by it hurts, but plasma guns aren't exactly cheap while our buggies are. The lucky blue paint surely helps mitigating it, but so does simply getting 8 wounds for 90-110 points.
Against armies that can spam plasma like guard, you have tons of big shootas everywhere which will just riddle them with bullets before they start to matter.
Meltas are a pretty dangerous, but outside of those new primaris firedragons I doubt we will be seeing a lot of them. The problems of being low range single-shot weapons didn't get solved by a minor point drop.

The weapons that gave me the most trouble in 8th were the kind of weapons which usually suck at killing vehicles. Predator autocannons, missile launchers, battle cannons or lootas tear them appart because of their low armor save and inability to gain cover.

this isn’t 8th I’m talking about. Cheap guardsmen and scions recieved special weapons massive drop price reduction and only Pay 5ppm For melta/plasmaguns a drop from 12/7 respectively ... marines get that ridiculous undercosted melta unit. Furthermore at least for guardsmen special weapons are imbedded in squads with a ton of ablative wounds before you can clear out the specials. You are going to see plasma spam about the same as 8th but a lot more melta now... plasma did take a small hit for some armies with unmodified 1s only but the vast majority of armies used reroll 1s anyway. It’s going to be a lot more prevalent this edition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ilgoth wrote:
So regarding our flyers. Others went up 20'ish points, but Wazbom went up the double. Why?

The going theory is most points adjustments was done by a set standard with only minor changes by hand. The wazbom got hit by its weapon loadout being slightly better w blast.

**tulun**

Forgeworld FAQ is out.

Chinork is now an aircraft? So it's a flyer?

Edit: WHOA. Models inside don't count as moving in a Squiggoth / Garg Squiggoth!

Page 27 and 34 – Squiggoth and Gargantuan Squiggoth,
Abilities, Howdah
Change to read:
‘In your Shooting phase, units embarked on this model can be
selected to shoot. Measure the range and draw line of sight from
any point on this model. When shooting with units embarked
on this model, they do not count as being within Engagement
Range of enemy units, and if this model made a Normal Move or
Fell Back, they count as having Remained Stationary. Any other
restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to
models embarked upon it; for example, if this model Advanced,
models embarked upon it also count as having Advanced.’

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/EunC78FGirlq7ljn.pdf

**gungo**

Swuiggoth is likely legends no points in the CA

You can put a SSAG in a garg squig and move and shoot all day with super protection.

**tulun**

gungo wrote:
Swuiggoth is likely legends no points in the CA

You can put a SSAG in a garg squig and move and shoot all day with super protection however the garg wants to be in melee and SAG can’t shoot in a transport in melee.

"When shooting with units embarked
on this model, they do not count as being within Engagement
Range of enemy units, and if this model made a Normal Move or
Fell Back, they count as having Remained Stationary".

You could absolutely shoot the SSAG if the Garg is in melee.

And I dunno why the baby would be legends, it's literally still being sold on the FW website. (https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-BE/Ork-Squiggoth)

**PiñaColada**

Well, all the points leaks are from the SS82 videos right? He might just've skipped/missed the squiggoth as some things in other armies are clearly missed (ie not mentioned but clearly not legends) as well. In the same video he doesn't mention the lifta wagon points but mentions the lifta-droppa wargear, one assumes that the wargear doesn't exist without the actual unit.

**gungo**

Ya I saw the engagement and fall back part after I typed it.

**Vineheart01**

Chinork an aircraft has some pretty powerful loopholes...

It cant score, which is a downside
It never falls back, so embarked units can still fire (despite the open-topped rule saying otherwise, because it did NOT fall back as aircrafts can Normal Move out of combat). They kinda screwed up that wording hardcore lol. Its rule specifically calls out Fall Back, which the chinork never will.
It can fall back and fire its twin Rattlers, which it was not (that i saw anyway) denied from using suddenly.

Yeah...chinorks are ridiculous right now. Bets on how long that lasts?

**gungo**

PiñaColada wrote:
Well, all the points leaks are from the SS82 videos right? He might just've skipped/missed the squiggoth as some things in other armies are clearly missed (ie not mentioned but clearly not legends) as well. In the same video he doesn't mention the lifta wagon points but mentions the lifta-droppa wargear, one assumes that the wargear doesn't exist without the actual unit.

The lifta droppa can probably just be added as a wargear option And combined to the wagon datasheet used for the supa cannon.
They did the same thing before when they combined the mekadread and megadread.

**tulun**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Chinork an aircraft has some pretty powerful loopholes...

It cant score, which is a downside
It never falls back, so embarked units can still fire (despite the open-topped rule saying otherwise, because it did NOT fall back as aircrafts can Normal Move out of combat). They kinda screwed up that wording hardcore lol. Its rule specifically calls out Fall Back, which the chinork never will.
It can fall back and fire its twin Rattlers, which it was not (that i saw anyway) denied from using suddenly.

Yeah...chinorks are ridiculous right now. Bets on how long that lasts?

I wonder if it'll be like a hover aircraft? There are other models that has this sort of rule, right. So maybe you can choose to zoom it around like an aircraft, but it can hover and function normally. So maybe the units inside can't fire if it's zooming at 25"+ a turn.

Edit: With all of this SSAG talk, is a baby Squiggoth looking interesting now? Assuming ~10% increase. It's a Heavy slot, and I believe that would make it ~175. It could shift around and move to the middle. You could easily stick the SSAG inside along with some Tanbkustas and/or Flash gits.

**PiñaColada**

gungo wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Well, all the points leaks are from the SS82 videos right? He might just've skipped/missed the squiggoth as some things in other armies are clearly missed (ie not mentioned but clearly not legends) as well. In the same video he doesn't mention the lifta wagon points but mentions the lifta-droppa wargear, one assumes that the wargear doesn't exist without the actual unit.

The lifta droppa can probably just be added as a wargear option And combined to the wagon datasheet used for the supa cannon.
They did the same thing before when they combined the mekadread and megadread.

The supakannon is only available on the datasheet "battlewagon with supakannon" (which SS82 does read and say the points for in that same video), so I'm unsure what you mean here. Will the lifta-droppa only be available on a supakannon battlewagon or do you think it'll be available as standard wargear on battlewagons? Because he didn't list off any points for battlewagons in the FW video. I think it's far more likely he just missed a few things, he's reading off hundreds of datasheet listings at breakneck speeds so so mistakes shouldn't come as a surprise..

**RedNoak**

wow kopta and squigoth look pretty juicy right now

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

A side question related to the use of meks. Is the rule of 3 still a thing?

**Jidmah**

tulun wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
My boomer hasn't died once yet. Despite me sticking big shootas on it to bait people into shooting it, it's never in competition for target priority when a naut, planes, bikers/MANz and a bunch of buggies are on the table.

I really wish lobbas weren't 20 points, for 10 I'd add it as well.

Have you stood an SSAG by it?

If I ran one, yes. If it ever gets locked in combat, you can just jump into the wagon and escape.
Often enough I just didn't run one though, as many guns in a the buggy list perform a similar function.

Otherwise, as long as you can sort of hide a vehicle even like a single Mek Gun, you could probably have your SSAG pretend like it's 8th edition. Hide a mek gun behind cover, SSAG toe into terrain, then have him fire away. As long as the Mek Gun lives, he's basically in 8th.

As some point the investment outweighs the gain though - you are now spending 160 points on the SSAG plus the warlord trait and relic. And a mek gun hidden like that is not impossible to kill for mobile units.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
A side question related to the use of meks. Is the rule of 3 still a thing?

For all missions that matter, yes. It's not even "organized play only" anymore in case someone in your area tried to argue that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Well, all the points leaks are from the SS82 videos right? He might just've skipped/missed the squiggoth as some things in other armies are clearly missed (ie not mentioned but clearly not legends) as well. In the same video he doesn't mention the lifta wagon points but mentions the lifta-droppa wargear, one assumes that the wargear doesn't exist without the actual unit.

The lifta droppa can probably just be added as a wargear option And combined to the wagon datasheet used for the supa cannon.
They did the same thing before when they combined the mekadread and megadread.

The lifta droppa can still be taken by the kustom stompa, that's why it still has points. Considering how the Lifta-wagon no longer is available from the FW page, it might have gotten squatted.
Not that anyone would care for this terrible and boring gun that used to be one of the most awesome things in the game.

According to some other people, Zardsnark also has gotten the axe.

**gungo**

Funnily enough they just changed zhardsnark model name to warboss on bike... it’s likely a better deal since the big boss strat and relic are better overall and doesn’t limit you to evilsun....

The big question is if this datasheet stays with the warboss keyword or loses it for the wartrike speedboss keyword.... which will take away the big boss strat on the warboss on bike.

**tulun**

Jidmah wrote:

Otherwise, as long as you can sort of hide a vehicle even like a single Mek Gun, you could probably have your SSAG pretend like it's 8th edition. Hide a mek gun behind cover, SSAG toe into terrain, then have him fire away. As long as the Mek Gun lives, he's basically in 8th.
As some point the investment outweighs the gain though - you are now spending 160 points on the SSAG plus the warlord trait and relic. And a mek gun hidden like that is not impossible to kill for mobile units.

For sure. I think if people aren't shooting at your Gunwagon, it's a tax free way of keeping the SSAG safe. I think it appears to be more vulnerable to sniper fire, as you probably aren't bothering to bubble wrap it in grots anymore.

It just seems to me the concept of keeping the SSAG safe is actually not going to be that complicated from non-sniper fire. You could probably do similar with a big lobba Big Trakk -- whether that's worth it I don't know, but it can effectively hide the whole game, even if targeted it still is a 15W vehicle.

The mobile SSAG in a Squiggoth also just sounds incredibly fun and I am 100% going to do that.

According to some other people, Zardsnark also has gotten the axe.

That would be a real shame. Any source on that? He's actually on the cusp of being really good. If his weapon simply got flat 2 damage, you could have Da Biggest Boss and him and have 2 amazing biker HQs. He even has 5 base attacks, which is enough to keep him relevant.

**gungo**

No points for zhards in leaks is where that rumor comes from and the leaks come from the CA points spreadsheet people got from GW... I don’t know if anyone is holding the actual books...

GW kinda got smart about limiting leaks by just providing a spread sheet with point changes to people instead of the actual book.

**tulun**

gungo wrote:
No points for zhards in leaks is where that rumor comes from and the leaks come from the CA points spreadsheet people got from GW... I don’t know if anyone is holding the actual books...

GW kinda got smart about limiting leaks by just providing a spread sheet with point changes to people instead of the actual book.

According to Goonhammer, they listed the following going to legends (https://www.goonhammer.com/the-9th-edition-munitorum-field-manual-points-review/)

"Legends
Some out of production Forge World models, most notably the Chaplain Dreadnought, have no cost here so are presumably being shuffled off to the great Legends PDF in the sky. Don’t panic if you’ve just brought a fancy new kit from Forge World – the list is pretty short and the relevant ones are basically:

Chaplain Dreadnoughts
Lias Issodon
Hellwrights
Sororitas Repressors
Death Rider Commissars
None of these have been in production for a while (and indeed in Issodon’s case never had a model) and the same is true of most of the other things that are gone (some of which are also just removing random Forge World variants of mainline models, where any conversion will still be fine to use as the core unit)."

No mention of anything Orky. Could be an omission, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't mention it.

**gungo**

tulun wrote:
gungo wrote:
No points for zhards in leaks is where that rumor comes from and the leaks come from the CA points spreadsheet people got from GW... I don’t know if anyone is holding the actual books...

GW kinda got smart about limiting leaks by just providing a spread sheet with point changes to people instead of the actual book.

According to Goonhammer, they listed the following going to legends (https://www.goonhammer.com/the-9th-edition-munitorum-field-manual-points-review/)

"Legends
Some out of production Forge World models, most notably the Chaplain Dreadnought, have no cost here so are presumably being shuffled off to the great Legends PDF in the sky. Don’t panic if you’ve just brought a fancy new kit from Forge World – the list is pretty short and the relevant ones are basically:

Chaplain Dreadnoughts
Lias Issodon
Hellwrights
Sororitas Repressors
Death Rider Commissars
None of these have been in production for a while (and indeed in Issodon’s case never had a model) and the same is true of most of the other things that are gone (some of which are also just removing random Forge World variants of mainline models, where any conversion will still be fine to use as the core unit)."

No mention of anything Orky. Could be an omission, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't mention it.

that’s not the full list just what they felt was relevant.
No one has the forgeworld book. I don’t even think anyone had the final CA book but that should hit distributors next week. But there is way more models then that forgeworld list going legends. I play dkok and a lot of out of production models don’t have points. The biggest surprise is the gorgon which just had its mould redone this year doesn’t have points.

**tulun**

gungo wrote:

No mention of anything Orky. Could be an omission, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't mention it. that’s not the full list just what they felt was relevant.
No one has the forgeworld book. I don’t even think anyone had the final CA book but that should hit distributors next week. But there is way more models then that forgeworld list going legends. I play dkok and a lot of out of production models don’t have points. The biggest surprise is the gorgon which just had its mould redone this year doesn’t have points.

I guess we'll see.

That would mean:
Buzzgob
Zhadsnark
Squiggoth
Lifta Wagon

Might be on the chopping block... but 3 of those models you can actively buy right now. I dunno why they would squat them but keep the Chinork, which I think has been OoP for nearly a decade.

**Afrodactyl**

Just glancing at the FAQ.... It's says regarding wargear that options can only be taken once. Does this mean that double choppa nobs are unusable now?

**Vineheart01**

if you're referring to this...

Q: When a Nob replaces their slugga and choppa with items
from the Nob Weapons list, can they take two weapons from
the first list and one weapon from the second list, for a total of
three weapons (e.g. a big choppa, killsaw and a kombi-weapon
with skorcha)?
A: No. They can take two weapons from the first list or only one
if it is taken from the second list

Thats old, thats been there for awhile. Theres nothing in there saying you cant take the same upgrade twice, just that you can only take 1 period if you chose the 2nd list.

**wannabmoy**

Just putting this here, but really Ork vs Custodes 9th edition bat rep with our chief warboss taking out a Ghaz Goffs list. Dustin placed 58th at LVO this year going 5-1.

Hope y'all enjoy!

https://youtu.be/otXypCEXaho

**Oguhmek**

Gruxz wrote:
Mek's might have a role in a battlewagon with deff rolla. Smash it into a target and you can still fire with your kustom slugga. With damage of d6 it's a nice finisher, especially with deathskulls. If he happens to finish that unit, your battlewagon can charge another target.

Yeah, about him, I'm still a bit bummed that the KMB one in the Lootas/Burnas kit got demoted to a Spanna. I mean, it's not like it doesn't have a model, right?

The extra range of the KMB would have been nice, I've never seen much use for the pistol one, but maybe you're onto something there.

**cody.d.**

Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
I mean gunwagon with the Kustom job is a steal for the price.

The rest is meh. The fething wazbomb went up like 20% in price. I really need a name to write on my book of grudges. The idiot that made points adjustment for xenos deserve to be flailed alive

Is it a steal? For 175 points it still feels a little weaker than a leman russ, certainly weaker than a tank commander. Would it be better to take a pair of the buggies for similar output and durability?

The buggy that comes closest would be the scrapjet, which is 220 for two and has less durability and range. Da Bommer with periscope is a fairly decent shooting unit unless your opponent is being a donkey cave and insists that you can't use the periscope.
Units in other codices never, ever matter in this regard, because orks can't take tank commanders.

Mind you I do consider having two models to increase the durability in most cases. Due to buffs and debuffs hitting them more/less effectively. And units like those new asshat melta guys who want to fire at a single target. Wounds carry over less efficiently and multishot weapons can't split fire. That sorta thing does really help a unit survive certain weapons fire. Same with some infantry types feeling more fragile than cheaper units due to how plasma would rip through the pts per wounds etc etc.

And I don't know, I think it is valuable to make comparisons between different codexes, it lets you better balance in an internal and external landscape.