Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I feel like someone was facerolling their keyboard when they made power klaws cost the same as the killsaw.

Obviously, this means that anything that can take a killsaw should except for Nobz.

Consider getting a Big Mek in Mega Armour for 100 points with 2 killsaws and the Big Mek upgrade for 6 Killsaw attacks. That seems rather...killsawy.

Pending clarification of the below rule:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if you're referring to this...

Q: When a Nob replaces their slugga and choppa with items
from the Nob Weapons list, can they take two weapons from
the first list and one weapon from the second list, for a total of
three weapons (e.g. a big choppa, killsaw and a kombi-weapon
with skorcha)?
A: No. They can take two weapons from the first list or only one
if it is taken from the second list

Thats old, thats been there for awhile. Theres nothing in there saying you cant take the same upgrade twice, just that you can only take 1 period if you chose the 2nd list.

He's referring to this. Does this refer to the option to take two options, or the option to take a single piece of wargear? I would think the FAQ overrides this since it is more specific.

bah thats stupid....yeah that sounds like dual-choppa is dead

So it's 500 points for a maxed out Gargantuan Squiggoth with Supa-Lobbas and 330 points for a maxed out unit of Flash Gitz. It might be stupid to commit over two fifths of my list to Flash Gitz riding in a Gargantuan Squiggoth but by Gork and Mork it seems like a potent combination.
Your opponent will obviously try to shoot it down asap but if you can get a successful charge early you'll be able to mitigate shooting to some extent.
Major downside is you can't easily get a kultur , unless you happen to have another 2 lords of war lying around. You also can't embark a KFF that will affect it, as Big Mek with KFF doesn't work in transports and it can't carry Big Mek with MA. So no hope for an invulnerable save.
It may not be good but I will be running it the next opportunity I get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did anyone else notice the supa-kannon is 0 points? The big trakk is 150 points and can take one.That is cheaper than a naked gunwagon.

 TedNugent wrote:


He's referring to this. Does this refer to the option to take two options, or the option to take a single piece of wargear? I would think the FAQ overrides this since it is more specific.

Oh that's a fairly important piece. Depending on that they refer to as the options only being chosen once that could mean you can only dip into each list once or only chose one of the individual selections once. IE 1 choppa and 1 big choppa vs 1 choppa and 1 slugga or shooting weapon.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
bah thats stupid....yeah that sounds like dual-choppa is dead

I don't think that's necessarily correct based on what the FAQ clarified.

FAQs
Q: When a Nob replaces their slugga and choppa with items from the Nob Weapons list, can they take two weapons from the first list and one weapon from the second list, for a total of three weapons (e.g. a big choppa, killsaw and a kombi-weapon with skorcha)?
A: No. They can take two weapons from the first list or only one if it is taken from the second list.

If you were just replacing the slugga with a choppa, that would conceivably still satisfy the rule. Otherwise the rule itself would be nonsensical and not in spirit with the FAQ as quoted above.
The codex itself says you can take two from the Nob weapon list.

You're literally only taking the option once, but the option allows you to take two Nob weapons. One time.

I agree with the above, I believe the 9th ed faq from above is clarifying how swapping wargear works so someone can't cheese it and put 4 kustom shootas on their warboss. If I remember correctly there was a RAW exploit at the start of 8th that allowed you to do this for some units.

Fair point, i stand corrected.
Gotta love contradicting rules in our favor (since it..rarely happens) lol

 Quackzo wrote:
So it's 500 points for a maxed out Gargantuan Squiggoth with Supa-Lobbas and 330 points for a maxed out unit of Flash Gitz. It might be stupid to commit over two fifths of my list to Flash Gitz riding in a Gargantuan Squiggoth but by Gork and Mork it seems like a potent combination.
Your opponent will obviously try to shoot it down asap but if you can get a successful charge early you'll be able to mitigate shooting to some extent.
Major downside is you can't easily get a kultur , unless you happen to have another 2 lords of war lying around. You also can't embark a KFF that will affect it, as Big Mek with KFF doesn't work in transports and it can't carry Big Mek with MA. So no hope for an invulnerable save.
It may not be good but I will be running it the next opportunity I get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did anyone else notice the supa-kannon is 0 points? The big trakk is 150 points and can take one.That is cheaper than a naked gunwagon.

I just stand a KFF near it. It is about 13" long, so you'd probably have to stand it broadside with the KFF roughly in the middle of it behind it, but a walking KFF can definitely give it a 5++ if you're so inclined.

 Quackzo wrote:
I agree with the above, I believe the 9th ed faq from above is clarifying how swapping wargear works so someone can't cheese it and put 4 kustom shootas on their warboss. If I remember correctly there was a RAW exploit at the start of 8th that allowed you to do this for some units.

I think I used it in 7th edition with a chaos biker lord. You had to swap out one of his weapons to get another weapon. Well he was equipped with frag and krack grenades. And they did have weapon profiles sooooo.

cody.d. wrote:
Mind you I do consider having two models to increase the durability in most cases. Due to buffs and debuffs hitting them more/less effectively. And units like those new asshat melta guys who want to fire at a single target. Wounds carry over less efficiently and multishot weapons can't split fire. That sorta thing does really help a unit survive certain weapons fire. Same with some infantry types feeling more fragile than cheaper units due to how plasma would rip through the pts per wounds etc etc.

None of that even remotely compares to being T8 instead of T6.

And I don't know, I think it is valuable to make comparisons between different codexes, it lets you better balance in an internal and external landscape.

Sure, but not their points. An army is such a complex system with all the units, stratagems, army traits, relics, what it can and cannot do that directly comparing point costs from one codex to another is utterly pointless. You are basically comparing number of strikes needed for hole 5 on two different golf courses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
I feel like someone was facerolling their keyboard when they made power klaws cost the same as the killsaw.

Obviously, this means that anything that can take a killsaw should except for Nobz.

Consider getting a Big Mek in Mega Armour for 100 points with 2 killsaws and the Big Mek upgrade for 6 Killsaw attacks. That seems rather...killsawy.

MA Big Mek can't have two killsaws, you can't replace the PK. That would make him fairly decent otherwise.

 Quackzo wrote:
I agree with the above, I believe the 9th ed faq from above is clarifying how swapping wargear works so someone can't cheese it and put 4 kustom shootas on their warboss. If I remember correctly there was a RAW exploit at the start of 8th that allowed you to do this for some units.

Hopefully this is the case, and my time spent painting a load of DC nobs isn't wasted.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
I agree with the above, I believe the 9th ed faq from above is clarifying how swapping wargear works so someone can't cheese it and put 4 kustom shootas on their warboss. If I remember correctly there was a RAW exploit at the start of 8th that allowed you to do this for some units.

Hopefully this is the case, and my time spent painting a load of DC nobs isn't wasted.

It seems very unreasonable that someone would consider them illegal though, even if the dual choppas loadout gets squatted, they'd be perfectly fine as slugga & choppa nobz.

Agree with Blackie. I see loads of marines player lacking bits for stuff like pistols and nades from time to time. I don't forbid them to use them for that. Same should go for dual choppa Nobz who wish to wear slugga&choppa.

My take is that they're still legal, but otherwise they would surely work as big choppa + choppa nobs assuming that's the loadout of the entire squad

I have build multiple nobz as dual choppa nobz when AOBR was still on sale simply because they looked cool. No matter what the rules say, the model won't become illegal.

I'm still sad that I'll have to start counting my power stabbas as choppas now. They were barely worth it a 3 points, at 5 they cost the same as big choppas and I just don't see the argument for them (unless all you're facing is CSM and oldmarines).

Agree, the stabba nerf was really odd. Typical of GW to give us something nice just to take it away again next time rules change.

I'm hopeful that it's going to be improved to AP-3 in the next 'dex as it now costs the same as a power sword. Or make it into power axe stats (no idea what those cost now though) and give it +1s in addition to AP-2 to make it a fantastic horde mulcher.

Keeping at at AP-2 when it costs the same as a powersword is exactly the kind of bs we've just had fixed in regards to powerklaws/powerfists, and while this is a smaller issue it still stings IMO.

i didnt even use powastabbas before so i didnt notice they went up.
Thats just ridiculous. Why would you ever take one over a bigchoppa lol.

Deff dreads for 9th.

They actually didn't get TOO hefty a point increase. My 8th favourite (Deathskull Klaw, Saw, 2x KMB) went from 88 -> 100.

Question is, what is the best load out in 9th? Getting into melee will be simpler, as there will be a lot more convergence in the middle. The Klaw, triple saw Deff Dread is also 100 points now.

Similarly swapping a KMB for a skorcha is only 5 points extra (105). What do we think about Deff dreads?

tulun wrote:


Question is, what is the best load out in 9th? Getting into melee will be simpler, as there will be a lot more convergence in the middle. The Klaw, triple saw Deff Dread is also 100 points now.

This is my favorite loadout. 300 points for 3 chippy dreads and a CP to give them -1 to hit. Deathskullz for 6++ and re-rolls for each one of them or Tin 'Eadz to let them strike on 2s. I would never field a single dread though, but at least two to justify the HS slot and the CP invested, I've always played 3 or none.

Only problem is they are HS, which gives them lots of competition unless losing some CPs for a second detachment. If they were elites like SM dreads I'd take them everytime.

KustomJobs alone kinda made using dreads a squad of 3 or none.
Those kustomjobs simply add too much potential and using it on a single or even duo of dreads is kinda wasted

 Blackie wrote:

tulun wrote:


Question is, what is the best load out in 9th? Getting into melee will be simpler, as there will be a lot more convergence in the middle. The Klaw, triple saw Deff Dread is also 100 points now.

This is my favorite loadout. 300 points for 3 chippy dreads and a CP to give them -1 to hit. Deathskullz for 6++ and re-rolls for each one of them or Tin 'Eadz to let them strike on 2s. I would never field a single dread though, but at least two to justify the HS slot and the CP invested, I've always played 3 or none.

Only problem is they are HS, which gives them lots of competition unless losing some CPs for a second detachment. If they were elites like SM dreads I'd take them everytime.

Yeah, cool. 4 attacks isn't a ton, but that new stratagem can help a bit if you're facing something squishy, and 2 KMB seems crazy useful to me if we think tank spam is going to be really prevalent. Plus, fighting durable melee units will enable us to double dip in both the shooting and CC phase for DS rerolls to shift them off the centre.

-1 to ranged hit eh? I didn't even consider that.. Heck, I guess even +1 BS wouldn't be terrible if your Mork is staying home. 3 Dreads hitting on 4's, each with their own re-rolls should do some work. Has the -1 done a lot of work for you?

 Blackie wrote:

tulun wrote:


Question is, what is the best load out in 9th? Getting into melee will be simpler, as there will be a lot more convergence in the middle. The Klaw, triple saw Deff Dread is also 100 points now.

This is my favorite loadout. 300 points for 3 chippy dreads and a CP to give them -1 to hit. Deathskullz for 6++ and re-rolls for each one of them or Tin 'Eadz to let them strike on 2s. I would never field a single dread though, but at least two to justify the HS slot and the CP invested, I've always played 3 or none.

Only problem is they are HS, which gives them lots of competition unless losing some CPs for a second detachment. If they were elites like SM dreads I'd take them everytime.

Why not kit the dreads out with triple KMB and a klaw/saw? Cheaper and it would work wonders with the +1BS Kustom job. At least it works quite well for me.

I haven't used the -1 to hit Kustom job on them. Is it better then making them more reliable for shooting?

Has anyone tried Ghaz in 9th edition yet?

Obviously at 300 points he's steep.

But, if this edition is all about grabbing the middle of the table and then holding it, he seems capable of doing that due to the maximum 4 wounds per turn.

You can almost stick him out on a wing with a couple of cheap units of boyz and he can hold an objective, and nobody is going to want to come close and get charged by him.

More terrain on the table also helps him a lot, as does his the smaller table size.

thoughts?

Pickled_egg wrote:
Has anyone tried Ghaz in 9th edition yet?

Obviously at 300 points he's steep.

But, if this edition is all about grabbing the middle of the table and then holding it, he seems capable of doing that due to the maximum 4 wounds per turn.

You can almost stick him out on a wing with a couple of cheap units of boyz and he can hold an objective, and nobody is going to want to come close and get charged by him.

More terrain on the table also helps him a lot, as does his the smaller table size.

thoughts?

There was a battle report posted a page or two back with Ghaz. I stopped watching about 1/3 of the way in though because the ork player was just rolling garbage and I didn't feel like I needed to see how it finished.

The post before had orks vs custodes
Plus tabletop tactics had orks (w ghaz) sv deathguard

It seems most playtesters are pushing for boy heavy lists to crowd objectives using ghaz and wierdboy to blow up atks and using a mix of kff Mek and painboy/maddoc/makari to keep your boys alive. Plus the obligatory dual burna bombers which is our new SSAG that’s in every list.

Ghaz during both games was slow and didn’t get into combat til late but survived late game and was brutal in combat. This may get fixed if we ever get a saga of beast faq that allows him to benefit from his own waaagh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I kinda want to try klaw/saw/saw/skorcha dread
Shooting in combat and the ability to clear chaff screens might be worth it.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:


Why not kit the dreads out with triple KMB and a klaw/saw? Cheaper and it would work wonders with the +1BS Kustom job. At least it works quite well for me.

I haven't used the -1 to hit Kustom job on them. Is it better then making them more reliable for shooting?

Truth? Mostly because my dreads have magnetized weapons but I gave all the KMB to killa kanz (also magnetized), and some other conversions. Of course now KMB on kanz have been removed from codex

I also never saw the appeal in shooty dreads, since down on KMB I only had rokkits for them, which were good only in 3rd edition (when I didn't have rokkits on my metal dread ), and there are too many shooty units that I prefer, but 2-3 KMBs, deathskullz bonus and +1BS for a squadron of 3 might have a point.

-1 to hit is a really nice buff in terms of durability, I don't know if it's better than making the unit more reliable on shooting, I just never tried it because I only play full choppy dreads. Skorchas could have been nice if they were 5pts like in 3-7th editions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:


It seems most playtesters are pushing for boy heavy lists to crowd objectives using ghaz and wierdboy to blow up atks and using a mix of kff Mek and painboy/maddoc/makari to keep your boys alive. Plus the obligatory dual burna bombers which is our new SSAG that’s in every list.

Burna bomber is extremely solid now, I expect it to be nerfed into the ground at the next rounds of FAQs or points changes. About boyz, well everyone thinks hordes are dead so with the rock-paper-scissor attitude that competitive players have someone could think that hordes are unexpected. In a TAC list I think T5+ ork models have the edge over boyz and gretchins now but it's really too soon to say. It wouldn't be the first time that hordes of orks do well because they are anti meta.

What is the argument is there for taking nob bikers over regular biker boyz?

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
What is the argument is there for taking nob bikers over regular biker boyz?

They don't compete with buggies for FA slots.

That's pretty much it.