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Ya I just looked it up... odd eadbutt uses a detachment slot not keyword.

Hmm so maybe I'll have to start doing rise of the Orkyries type lists. Could run 6 chinorks and just have a unit of Boyz in each one. Going deathskulls and giving the chinorks puts you at like 170 points per each pair of chinorks and boyz. That totals Bout 1020 points.

Probably not the best idea but would be fun! You'd have more then enough chinorks that you'd have some redundancy if your opponent shoots them down. The Boyz are there for raining onto objectives and ticking boxes.

Bear with me for a minute boyz. I have been thinking (dangerous I know) about what to do with orkz competitively all day and I have a bit of an idea I want to run by you lads. First off, 9th edition is going to be about board control and holding objectives as long as possible in order to win VPs. Now, Hordes are going to suffer thanks to 9th edition mechanics and rules which handicap them dramatically, most importantly, Blast. A whirlwind will now be hitting you with 12 shots instead of 2D6 each turn but here is the kicker. Target Saturation.

This edition looks like it is geared towards a more vehicle heavy list with a focus on vehicles/monsters and the sort. A lot of lists are going to prioritize anti-tank weaponry at the expense of the blast weapons because "why would anyone bring a horde in an anti-horde meta?" PLUS, and this is important, while tagging vehicles is no longer as effective as before, blast weapons CAN NOT be fired while in engagement range. So, with all of that in mind I am considering running a massive Anti-meta list.

Brigade: Snake Bite

Big Mek W/KFF&Grots x2 130pts
Weirdboy x 1 75pts
Boyz x 180 1440pts
Mekz x 3 90pts
Deff Kopta W/Twin Big Shoota x 3 105pts
Mek Gunz W/Smasha x4 160pts

Total = 2,000pts.

Flood the board with as many boyz as you can fit, keep the Koptas in reserve for free and either some boyz in reserve or have them loaded for tellyporta strike. Spread the Big Mekz out so that every single boy gets a 5++ and a 6+ FNP. Use the mini mekz to raise banners and the Mek gunz because i needed to fill the HS slot for cheap If the enemy brings blast weapons then bum rush him with boyz or Da Jump a unit close enough to threaten it. Worst case scenario, suck it up for 1 turn and hit it with Deep striking Deff Koptas that can use 3D6 charge to guarantee a tag.

Even against an enemy with enough blast weapons to dish out 100 shots a turn you are only going to lose (BS3) roughly 37ish boyz a turn thanks to the 5++ and 6+ FNP.

Yay unsolicited Ork lists!

Full disclosure, I moved on to possessed bombs as soon as they were legal and have been playing Chaos for the past year with a lot of success, great faction, lost of fun. Meanwhile, I'm going to go through some ideas I've been thinking about for Orks here mostly to get it all on paper for myself, and you guys can get some quirky ideas or inspiration from them if you like.

These are some speculative things I believe will be good:
These will be the bedrock of new lists IMO:
Lists! YAY
I've been out of the Ork game for a while, still havn't even rebased my horde to 30mm, so I probably made some mistakes in here, and if I did please correct me so i don't build an illegal list. Thanks guys.

 hollow one wrote:
Yay unsolicited Ork lists!

Full disclosure, I moved on to possessed bombs as soon as they were legal and have been playing Chaos for the past year with a lot of success, great faction, lost of fun. Meanwhile, I'm going to go through some ideas I've been thinking about for Orks here mostly to get it all on paper for myself, and you guys can get some quirky ideas or inspiration from them if you like.

These are some speculative things I believe will be good:

Spoiler:

Deathskull Kommandos: I think for an extra 1ppm (over boys), and the ability to bring a squad of only 5, Kommandos are where it's at for an MSU list. I'm not interested in deep strike and charging, i want to hide behind walls, be annoying, and if i survive anything then hit em back with a PK. Deathskull for the rerolls and the obsec, I would consider the new Kultur "Huntaz" if you have the terrain in your meta.

Snakebite Vehicles: I think Battlewagons are undercosted at 135, if you have a KFF turn 1 you're laughing and then 6+++ all game is sexy. I would kustom job a battlewagon to get 3+/5++ most games and send him on a mission without the rest. I would fill these wagons with min squads of boys, getting wrapped and losing the payload isn't as likely anymore, so play aggressive and forward. I would not bring burna-bombers (as we all know, are awesome) without some other vehicles that force your opponent to make tough decisions.

Megatrakk Scrapjets: Probably the best new vehicle now, especially with the Korkscrew kustom job. I think if you were rich you would buy 9 of these. 330points for 27 T6 wounds with a 4+ save is very frustrating to shoot. The mortal wounds on the charge is good, stack it with Ramming Speed and the new stratagem Unstoppable Momentum, and I believe you can get up to 4*D3 MW from one scrapjet if things work out.

Bully Tankbustas: No longer are we jumping and committing suicide when we fail the charge. This is where grot-shields are going in the new meta! Deathskulls or Badmoons, rerolling all wounds is almost (not quite) as good as shooting twice. But i think you play these boys as midfield bullies. I can see a list that has 30+ Badmoon tankbustas protected by 3 trukks and 90 grots, totally ruining someones midfield, deepstrike some, jump others, hide some, spend 2 CP a turn to double shoot at least one of them all game. That's about half your army in points though (the other half will be in mek guns). There will be many games you throw a million grenades with this setup, tanks will be busted.

These will be the bedrock of new lists IMO:

Spoiler:

10 man Boyz + a rokkit and/or PK: Particularly Deathskulls for the reroll. Everyones talking about board control, I've played a few 9th now and so long as you have more obsec than them you're goddam winning. MSU Boyz, maybe in trukks if you've got a few.

Yep, still Mek Gunz: I actually think a patrol of one KFF, 10 grots, and 12 Smasha Guns in the new Kultur "Grot Mobz" is going to be a staple in every list I build. 2CP well spent for reroll 1s.

Meganobz: Get 'em, killsaw 'em, this one I think is obvious.

Burna Bomba: Obviously the new 'eadbut stratagem is amazing with this guy, but i think you need to be a bit careful with the auto-include of this one. I just think you only run 1 in a list that doesn't saturate mek. 155 points for a vehicle that might die in your lines turn 1 if you go second is NOT good enough (you can buy a full BW for less, and that guy will get you points), you need to stretch their weapons to make shooting the burna-bomba not a good deal. If you do that, then sure, bring 3.

Lists! YAY

Spoiler:

MSU:
Deathskulls Battaltion:
1 weirdboy
1 warboss
60 boys (6*10 w/ BC)
30 kommandos (5*6 w/ PK)
3 battlewagons

Grot Mobz Patrol:
1 KFF
10 grots
12 smasha gunz

High amounts of pressure from the backlines with the gunz, you literally fill any deployment zone with 12 of them, and you send battlewagons forward to get the points. I want them shooting battlewagons desperately, so i can crawl my smasha gunz 3"s at a time towards the middle for shooting dominance. This build runs engage on all fronts so well, raises banners very well. But it gives up attrition for sure. I would find the points for a burna bomber in here if i was tuning this list.

Bully Shooty:
Badmoons Battalion:
1 KFF
1 weirdboy
60 grots (6*10)
30 tankbustas (3*10)
3 scrapjets (korkscrewed)
2 trukks

Grot Mobz Patrol:
1 KFF
10 grots
12 smasha gunz

This is the list I am most excited about. I think with excellent mindfulness of the opponents shooting power, and some good terrain work, you can make this list hurt people and fear the rokkit. It's possible you want to run 200 grots still and zero mek guns. This list gets wrekt by hordes, I think scrapjets could be replaced by shoota boyz if you thought you needed more output vs that style.

No Smasha Guns (probably a mistake):
Snakebite Battalion:
1 Ghazkul (deepstriked)
1 weirdboy
50 boys (1*30 and 2*10 with BC)
20 kommandos (4*5 with PK)
1 Burna Bomba
2 Battlewagons
1 trukk
10 MANz (2*5 w/ killsaws)

I think this list is what everyone is talking about that armies needs. Durable threats that stand on objectives well. Between the battlewagons and MANz, your opponent will take a few turns clearing you off any objective, a 30man squad of boyz to capitalise on green-tide is really good too (because it is MUCH easier to save that last boy now, thanks to the new morale rules).

I've been out of the Ork game for a while, still havn't even rebased my horde to 30mm, so I probably made some mistakes in here, and if I did please correct me so i don't build an illegal list. Thanks guys.

You make some very good points and I do think MSU boyz with Saw and rokkit for 100 PTS are a staple, as much unit of 4 MANz as unit of 5 kommandos.

However snakebite is the worst kulture of all. The gain is laughable and the loss gigantic. That 6+++ is not doing anything.
Also rule of 3 is still a thing, so unfortunately you can't have 4*5 or 6*5 Kommandos

 Emicrania wrote:
You make some very good points and I do think MSU boyz with Saw and rokkit for 100 PTS are a staple, as much unit of 4 MANz as unit of 5 kommandos.

However snakebite is the worst kulture of all. The gain is laughable and the loss gigantic. That 6+++ is not doing anything.
Also rule of 3 is still a thing, so unfortunately you can't have 4*5 or 6*5 Kommandos

Oh damn the kommandos! They are not troops :( damnit only 3 squads of 5 isnt exciting enough.

I think 6+++ on vehicles is very good, but we can agree to disagree there.

I can see how you think is strong, however, since you said yourself that has been long time since you played Orks, I can tell you, you are up for a disappointment.

Orks veichle lack any sort of real armour , in theory for making up their cheap price, in practice because at GW headquarters feel that Orks are good just to throw some dices around, screaming dakka here and there.
They are not that cheap and doubling down on KFF is not ROI smart, 60 or 80 points (hard to understand if the KFF is included in the new price) for giving one veichle 5+ is not good.
On top of that, any decent antiveichle is d6 dmg, which means , on a 18W veichle with no invu, you "might" increase the W by 3. Giving up M or rerolling ones or freebooterz trait.

But experience is the best teacher.

Yeah I get you, man. We are just evaluating the game differently. I think 8th experience means very little in 9th, the missions are very different and I think durability is very important. Statistically 4.5 extra wounds on my BW for me is worth more than 2" movement if all my boyz are in vehicles. T8 wounds really capitalise on FNP, and if you wanted to you could also repair which is huge.

I'd also like to point out that you could replace the entire snakebite culture by bringing Thrakka and Makari along for the 6+++. I'm not too sure whether Thrakka is worth it, but Makari for sure will be a pain in your opponent's rear if he starts generating VP through actions while they try to remove a model with a 2++ save.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'd also like to point out that you could replace the entire snakebite culture by bringing Thrakka and Makari along for the 6+++. I'm not too sure whether Thrakka is worth it, but Makari for sure will be a pain in your opponent's rear if he starts generating VP through actions while they try to remove a model with a 2++ save.

Yeah good point, I think maybe bringing makari would be worth it for Ghaz alone? Does he take a HQ slot? But I think you'll find you spread out a lot in the new missions, a single painboy will not pay their points back unless you take ~400 points worth of wounds while they are near, and neither of those units provide FNP to vehicles, right?

edit: Sorry Jid, looks like Makari only gives FNP to Goffs. A 2++ character for 65 points isnt a joke though, that is a serious consideration. But he is a Goff, and will brake you kulture unlike Ghaz.

My point was that Makari giving 6+++ to your goff battlewagons would be superior to picking snakebites, as the goff culture actually has some other things to offer, while Snakebites only got Brogg’s Buzzbomb which has become blast for some insane reasons.

Right I don't understand, that rule doesn't exist. Think about snakebites this way. You have (durability only) roughly (and very generalised) 20% extra in points worth of wounds across your whole army with a 6+++.

If your entire army was vehicles, (it shouldn't be) that would be 400 points (i.e. 3 BW's) worth of increased durability.

BW Is rule of 3 . 18*3= 54 W + 17% (1/6) 63,17 W
135 for the BW = 7,5 ptsx W
7,5*9.17=68,77 pts.

Now you gained 68 pts doing this. What are your BW gonna do? Stay on the objective? Knights disappeared from the meta last month's because marines wiped them. And we are talking about 5 tiranis knight that comes back up AND have 6+++ AND can take Ion shield AND have a natural 3+ 5++.

Snakebite is the worst kulture all around with no real benefit. The board might be smaller and flanking might happen more often and screens might be more expensive, but this is still 40k and No amount of changes can remove the fact that marines have eradicators for 120 fething points that delete anything and can be DS for 1 CP.

But hey, what do I know ?

Couldn't you, theoretically speaking, take 3x battlewagons, 3x bonebreakas,3x gunwagons and 3x battlewagon with supa-kannons as they're all different datasheets?

I mean, that'd be your entire army points wise and wouldn't do too well I'd wager, but I think that's legal?

Makaris FNP doesn't turns on unless he is close enough to Ghaz.

3"

PiñaColada wrote:
Couldn't you, theoretically speaking, take 3x battlewagons, 3x bonebreakas,3x gunwagons and 3x battlewagon with supa-kannons as they're all different datasheets?

I mean, that'd be your entire army points wise and wouldn't do too well I'd wager, but I think that's legal?

That is a 100% legal and 99% loser list. Even nids can take list down....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I heard thru the gravepine that the Ork codex should be one of the first to release. Let's see what happen by than. That might be the reason why SotB didn't got a FAQ

I've been thinking about Ghaz + Makari patrol coming in from strategic reserves. It's a bit gimmicky but if you can clear an available edge of the deployment zone Ghaz along with a squad or two of grots can pin Makari for protection. With linebreaker / repair teleport homer (Makari) you're racking up 9vp a turn that really forces a reaction. With the amount of movement options orks have there's a decent chance you've already got a turn or two of linebreaker anyway to max it out.

 careh wrote:
I've been thinking about Ghaz + Makari patrol coming in from strategic reserves. It's a bit gimmicky but if you can clear an available edge of the deployment zone Ghaz along with a squad or two of grots can pin Makari for protection. With linebreaker / repair teleport homer (Makari) you're racking up 9vp a turn that really forces a reaction. With the amount of movement options orks have there's a decent chance you've already got a turn or two of linebreaker anyway to max it out.

Why not just tellyporting a gorkanaut then? Maybe with a mek in its belly if you need someone to raise the flag. Or 5 kommandos in reserve. Even cheaper than the Ghaz, Makari and grots combo and thanks to the stratagem it's also a more guaranteed charge from reserves.

C'mon guys the thread has been getting lots of negativity thrown around. Reflect your posting a bit. There are couple of guys, who are dominating the thread with passive aggressiveness. There's no need for that.

 careh wrote:
I've been thinking about Ghaz + Makari patrol coming in from strategic reserves. It's a bit gimmicky but if you can clear an available edge of the deployment zone Ghaz along with a squad or two of grots can pin Makari for protection. With linebreaker / repair teleport homer (Makari) you're racking up 9vp a turn that really forces a reaction. With the amount of movement options orks have there's a decent chance you've already got a turn or two of linebreaker anyway to max it out.

Is worth a try! I think all of your opponents will be heavily playing against that, and trying to deny a good arrival spot. What units would help clearing the edge?

10 man units of Boyz I think have a spot, but maybe still one 30 man just to green tide?

 Blackie wrote:

 careh wrote:
I've been thinking about Ghaz + Makari patrol coming in from strategic reserves. It's a bit gimmicky but if you can clear an available edge of the deployment zone Ghaz along with a squad or two of grots can pin Makari for protection. With linebreaker / repair teleport homer (Makari) you're racking up 9vp a turn that really forces a reaction. With the amount of movement options orks have there's a decent chance you've already got a turn or two of linebreaker anyway to max it out.

Why not just tellyporting a gorkanaut then? Maybe with a mek in its belly if you need someone to raise the flag. Or 5 kommandos in reserve. Even cheaper than the Ghaz, Makari and grots combo and thanks to the stratagem it's also a more guaranteed charge from reserves.

I'm just thinking in terms of pure durability, the offensive output (although nice) is really secondary. There aren't many armies that can easily '1 turn' Ghaz even if they wanted to, let alone get through him efficiently enough to then get through the scrawny 2++ model behind. It's pretty opportunistic but you decide the secondaries / strategic reserves on a game by game basis, for instance I play against a lot of Tau where I think it would be doubly impactful. And if doesn't look viable, I think Ghaz and Makari will probably be a decent addition for the main mission scoring.

As far as edge clearing goes I'm one of the few still clinging onto lootas, maybe a dakka jet coming back from the board edge turn 2 could be useful too.

I love the new edition list tinkering.

Sometimes the more bleak things look at first the more fun it is.

Think this is the cheesiest I have thrown together so far from the wisdom in this thread.

I personally don't really rate Flash Gitz that highly anymore and looking at your list Bigdoza I'd be tempted to keep it all Boomboyz and just straight swap those FGs for tankbustas. Then just switch out badrukk for a warboss or KFF big mek (to alleviate alpha strike risk).

I will say though, people are going nuts over those Chinorks and I'd say it's fairly likely they won't end up being the same after (another) day 1 FAQ and/or when the FW books drop. GW didn't understand the weird hole they dug themselves when they gave it the aircraft keyword (it's a helicopter, why is it more of an aircraft than like a heldrake?). I'd be hesitant to buy/scratch build a lot of them before we know some more.

 Emicrania wrote:



You make some very good points and I do think MSU boyz with Saw and rokkit for 100 PTS are a staple, as much unit of 4 MANz as unit of 5 kommandos.

However snakebite is the worst kulture of all. The gain is laughable and the loss gigantic. That 6+++ is not doing anything.
Also rule of 3 is still a thing, so unfortunately you can't have 4*5 or 6*5 Kommandos

Why a unit of 4 MANz? For out flank?

I dunno about that boy setup to be honest. I'm a big fan of rocket DS boys, but at a 10 man unit, how are you keeping them alive? We saw 30 man boy squads get blown off the board in 8th, and 9th is going to be just as deadly.

Boys need to be in bulk or in a delivery system of some kind (transport), and the transport route is prohibitively expensive for what you actually get.

PiñaColada wrote:
I personally don't really rate Flash Gitz that highly anymore and looking at your list Bigdoza I'd be tempted to keep it all Boomboyz and just straight swap those FGs for tankbustas. Then just switch out badrukk for a warboss or KFF big mek (to alleviate alpha strike risk).

I will say though, people are going nuts over those Chinorks and I'd say it's fairly likely they won't end up being the same after (another) day 1 FAQ and/or when the FW books drop. GW didn't understand the weird hole they dug themselves when they gave it the aircraft keyword (it's a helicopter, why is it more of an aircraft than like a heldrake?). I'd be hesitant to buy/scratch build a lot of them before we know some more.

Yeah, unless you own the models, don't covert this. This is with incomplete info, and is probably with an error on the Rattler Kannon cost.

I think whether or not you bring Flash Gits in something like or Tankbustas is just largely dependent on what you expect to face. FG are stupidly expensive now, but they are still amazing primaris / heavy infantry killers.

Exactly it's more speculative with the Chinorks for now, I cant see them lasting. I have a pile of unassembled deffkopta and bits here too haha.

I was thinking the gits hold up better than the bustas, when their chinork dies they can loot it for 3+, get some cover and live on objective but that's probably wishful thinking.

Tankbustas wouldn't get the -1 to hit from moving around too.

One place where I wonder about the viability of mech lists is those ridiculous Eliminators.

Be prepared for large, large amounts of melta shots.

Same goes for Meganobz.

You mean eradicators? Eliminators are the snipers with camo cloaks (or armed with las fusils but you almost never see them).

Eradicators are going to sting as they're undercosted by (probably at least) 10ppm.. A KFF is a must to have any chance of tanking those shots.

undercosted by way more than 10ppm
A twin melta is 50pts on its own, the model has a "twin melta thats not a twin melta" on a Gravis model for less than that.
Theyre easily half what they should be if not even less.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
undercosted by way more than 10ppm
A twin melta is 50pts on its own, the model has a "twin melta thats not a twin melta" on a Gravis model for less than that.
Theyre easily half what they should be if not even less.

I mean, they shouldn't be 80 ppm.. that's a bit of hyperbole. I won't be shocked if they get a 5-10 ppm increase in the next point update.

That being said, Eradicators are really bloody good. I think they will be showing up a lot. I think the strategy will be in the buggy style list is to use the longer range of stuff like the Gunwagon / Mork to bait them in, and just blow them off with rockets. T5, 3+ save, 3 wounds is great, but it's good bait for rockets or a dragsta. And they are really optimal on big, expensive vehicles. If they double shoot a buggy, well, it'll probably die, but I'll swap a 90 point KBB for the 120 point Eradicators all day.

Depending on how many vehicles are in the meta...
A boomboys detachment with da boomer filled with tank bustas might be okay. Str9 ap-3 and 3 damage is nice. Reroll to hit vs vehicles just makes them brutal... they just fail vs msu Infantry spam.

I actually think goffs might be more competitive and popular mostly because of ghaz.