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 Emicrania wrote:


Orks veichle lack any sort of real armour , in theory for making up their cheap price, in practice because at GW headquarters feel that Orks are good just to throw some dices around, screaming dakka here and there.

But experience is the best teacher.

I agree with this line of thought. It's such a Rich area for GW to mine from: Bone-Crushas, Giblet-Grinders, Bowel-burnas, Spleen-rippas, Gobsmasha's, Brain-burstas. Heck, I'd even take a Weirdboy tower. We are short on armour completely. GW seemed to think that smushing them all into the battlewagon chassis was good enough I suppose.

As I expect there to be one or two pieces of dense cover on most tabletops I just wondered how people plan on mitigating the fact that our shooting is largely going to be BS 6+ vs anyone with a brain.

With Loota's going up in points, & The SSAG no longer available in competitive play. We seem to be left with;

Spamming Smasha gunz
or possibly mobile tankbusta's in a trukk or open topped Battle wagon.

The Smasha gunz will give up a lot of secondary points, the tankbusta's in a vehicle are worth a look but once the vehicle is gone they die fairly instantly.

I was hoping that Gork/Morkanaut's would come down in points the same way that the land raider has to give us something viable.

But I'm just not seeing any viable builds beyond boyz spam with 2x burna bombas and a bevy of Meganobz.

And that build is going to be mid tier at best

EDIT : Why didn't they sort the list of blast weapons by faction.....

I feel like most Ork armies will give up an easy 15 "bring it down" points so you might as well lean into it I guess.

Other than what you just mentioned Pickled_egg I still think the megatrakk skrapjet, KBBs and shockjump dragstas are looking solid for the Orks. The wazbom wasn't hit too bad by the points cost so unless you're completely sold on the double burna bommer it's still a good option IMO (especially as it's a great target for long, uncontrolled bursts).

Da boomer gunwagon is good enough to be considered in most lists and a forktress bonebreaka just lost it's biggest limitation from 8th (vertical engagement range).

The warboss suicide missile isn't nearly as costly now, considering slay the warlord is barely a thing and the SSAG isn't there to eat up your WT. I don't think Orks are looking like a top player as of right now, but there could be a couple of builds that are actually quite decent.

PiñaColada wrote:


Da boomer gunwagon is good enough to be considered in most lists and a forktress bonebreaka just lost it's biggest limitation from 8th (vertical engagement range).

Are you sure you can shoot twice with Da Bommer gunwagon ? Seems that RAW the gunwagon ability only lets you fire twice with your killakannon. If you replace it you can't fire twice anymore, and the gunwagon ability is useless.

There is no evidence of relics not being treated the same as the weapons they replace, and there is tons of evidence of the contrary, including an FAQ for a IG relic that has the same exact interaction as da boomer and periscope.
Multiple playtesters used stratagems and rules meant for specific weapons on their corresponding relic versions during their 9th edition games.

It's very safe to assume that periscope works on da boomer.

I'm gonna shave my eyebrows and eat my shoes if periscope won't work on the Boomer


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PiñaColada wrote:
I feel like most Ork armies will give up an easy 15 "bring it down" points so you might as well lean into it I guess.

Other than what you just mentioned Pickled_egg I still think the megatrakk skrapjet, KBBs and shockjump dragstas are looking solid for the Orks. The wazbom wasn't hit too bad by the points cost so unless you're completely sold on the double burna bommer it's still a good option IMO (especially as it's a great target for long, uncontrolled bursts).

Da boomer gunwagon is good enough to be considered in most lists and a forktress bonebreaka just lost it's biggest limitation from 8th (vertical engagement range).

The warboss suicide missile isn't nearly as costly now, considering slay the warlord is barely a thing and the SSAG isn't there to eat up your WT. I don't think Orks are looking like a top player as of right now, but there could be a couple of builds that are actually quite decent.

That was our strength in ITC with Grots: giving the reaper was so easy that after they maxed out with 80 Grots , most of the people had no idea what to do with other 60/100 bodies on the field

Here's my starting list for 9th edition, sharing for the love towards others Orks. Gonna play couple of games and see how it holds, and then start improving it.



I think it is rather aggressive list that simply marches forward to take foothold on the table, aiming to hold it from there regardless of casualties. Not going for killy secondaries, but objective based. Linebreaker is good use I think.

Squad of boyz, nobz and warboss would be loaded in Battlewagon.

 Emicrania wrote:
I'm gonna shave my eyebrows and eat my shoes if periscope won't work on the Boomer

That was our strength in ITC with Grots: giving the reaper was so easy that after they maxed out with 80 Grots , most of the people had no idea what to do with other 60/100 bodies on the field

Yeah, I think we gotta accept we are going to give up the vehicle VPs. Either you're taking Smashas in the more infantry style list, or a hoard of buggies. And 1-2 Burnas are probably showing up in every serious Ork list from now on, which I believe is 6 automatic VPs for that secondary for your opponent.. cause you know it's either getting shot off or exploding.

Something that's quite interesting too for secondaries: if you forego psykers (and some lists like mech encourage this), that secondary seems a super easy pickup for 15 VPs against a lot of opponents (Grey Knights, Eldar).

I assume Abhor the Witch / Vehicle buster one is in the same category too, so it's actually not gonna be a big detriment to Orks taking our own psykers in the long run, unless you field 0 vehicles... which competitively seems stupid.

Edit: Actually, no they aren't. Abhor the witch and Bring it down (Vehicle VP) are separate. Something to keep in mind. 2 Weirdboy can be an easy 10 VP if the enemy has no psykers of their own.

havnt orks always played with the mentality they basically handed some points to the opponent, because the game is balanced for marines not xenos?
Seems kill points and slay the warlord has always been something orks tend to just hand off. Either that or vehicle kills, same diff its something we just gotta deal with.

I can't think of a game I won as orks in 8th edition lol.

Seems like more fun people on the very bottom tables anyway.

I hade some decent success last 2 years with ork competitively, which is why i´m so ferocious at the loss of basically everything that made us good so far.

We need some serious boost or we are stuck midtier for a while , at best.

About secondaries @Tulun, that is very true, which is why is important to transform weakness into strengths, ATM heavy mech or mech and some MSU infantry might be the way to go.

Also a suicidal warboss is great to trick the enemy into a easy secondary which lead to a -9 on the scoresheet, since you can just achieve 6 points.

 Emicrania wrote:
I hade some decent success last 2 years with ork competitively, which is why i´m so ferocious at the loss of basically everything that made us good so far.

We need some serious boost or we are stuck midtier for a while , at best.

About secondaries @Tulun, that is very true, which is why is important to transform weakness into strengths, ATM heavy mech or mech and some MSU infantry might be the way to go.

Also a suicidal warboss is great to trick the enemy into a easy secondary which lead to a -9 on the scoresheet, since you can just achieve 6 points.

Yeah, the secondary game is going to be interesting for us. I think people will learn the best to choose from with experience though, so some of these mind games will only go so far.

My only issue with this MSU infantry stuff is you need some kind of game plan. As Jid sort of rightly pointed out, yeah, 50 points for grots sucks, but 80 points for 10 boys dies almost as easily.

If we generally have at *least* 3 troop squads to flesh out, how do we maximize the usage out of them?

Like I could see for one of the squads, you put 10 boys in a Deff Rolla Wagon upgraded to a Forktress, along with 5 MANz, and push on one side. The boys are ablative wounds for the MANz, and if the Nob has double saw, it effectively becomes a 6th double saw model in that area.

Maybe for the last 2 10 man boy squads, you out flank the both of them for 1 CP, and optionally mob up to turn them into a 20 man boy squad, just so they don't get blown off immediately.

It's important to note that the warlord secondary is completely different in the GT pack. In there you score a number of VPs depending on which round you kill the warlord in.
Round 1 is 13VP
Round 2 is 10VP
Round 3 is 6VP
Round 4 is 3VP
Round 5 is 1VP

But since you declare any pregame strats after knowing which secondaries your opponent chooses (step 10 & 7 respectively) you could just put your warlord into reserve and have him come out somewhere safe T3 and as such mitigate almost all potential VP. Therefore I doubt we'll ever really see that secondary.

So is the general consensus that most Ork lists are going to be built around a battalion and a patrol? A brigade seems excessive troops wise now that grots are no longer effective filler and you do want that extra oomph from a different detachment kultur to maximize the damage you do with units like mek gunz.

Given that the restriction on specialist detachments seem to be mainly restricted to the grand tournament scene, but competitive is effectively synonymous with matched play in most places, how likely do you think the relic SAG is going to be allowed post launch? I think they will be phased inevitably, but I'd like to see other opinions since my meta is basically just amongst friends, so I'm not sure how to bring it up to them since they're not entirely fans of the relic to begin with (I roll high a lot).

 Grimskul wrote:
So is the general consensus that most Ork lists are going to be built around a battalion and a patrol? A brigade seems excessive troops wise now that grots are no longer effective filler and you do want that extra oomph from a different detachment kultur to maximize the damage you do with units like mek gunz.

Given that the restriction on specialist detachments seem to be mainly restricted to the grand tournament scene, but competitive is effectively synonymous with matched play in most places, how likely do you think the relic SAG is going to be allowed post launch? I think they will be phased inevitably, but I'd like to see other opinions since my meta is basically just amongst friends, so I'm not sure how to bring it up to them since they're not entirely fans of the relic to begin with (I roll high a lot).

Bat or bat/patrol or maybe patrol/patrol if for whatever reason you wanna save 2 troop slots and don't need more than 4 of any particular one.

I dunno. If it's just between friends, you sort of just agree on what to use. If some of them are thinking of playing in tournaments though I'd probably just ban them.

Tbh, the shelf life of vigilus is probably very short anyway. Hopefully we have a codex in 6 months, maybe even with the relic SAG restored.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
So is the general consensus that most Ork lists are going to be built around a battalion and a patrol? A brigade seems excessive troops wise now that grots are no longer effective filler and you do want that extra oomph from a different detachment kultur to maximize the damage you do with units like mek gunz.

Given that the restriction on specialist detachments seem to be mainly restricted to the grand tournament scene, but competitive is effectively synonymous with matched play in most places, how likely do you think the relic SAG is going to be allowed post launch? I think they will be phased inevitably, but I'd like to see other opinions since my meta is basically just amongst friends, so I'm not sure how to bring it up to them since they're not entirely fans of the relic to begin with (I roll high a lot).

Bat or bat/patrol or maybe patrol/patrol if for whatever reason you wanna save 2 troop slots and don't need more than 4 of any particular one.

I dunno. If it's just between friends, you sort of just agree on what to use. If some of them are thinking of playing in tournaments though I'd probably just ban them.

Tbh, the shelf life of vigilus is probably very short anyway. Hopefully we have a codex in 6 months, maybe even with the relic SAG restored.

Good point, and with the 120 points cost of a SAG, it's not like there's that much incentive to take it anyways. Probably want to move on from that crutch with the game changing the way it is.

I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

 Grimskul wrote:


I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

It depends on what guns the opponent has. I'm starting with 2x30 boyz, Warboss, Weirdboy, Mad Dok and other 10 boyz in a wagon with 5 Meganobz as core infantries of the list. More boyz I refuse to play, less boyz I don't know; I'd like to try soon a full vehicle/walkers list with just Meganobz and characters as the only infantries.

We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for you guys playing boyz mob, bring a KFF or a pack or Kleenex, because you'll gonna cry salty tears Vs ANY Imperium list. Astra, SM, SoB, and AD mech will evaporate 30 boyz in a jiff.

 Grimskul wrote:


I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

Killsaw is the same cost as the PK. the PK should never, ever be willingly taken.

You know, given the humble trukk went up like 1 point, I wonder too if Trukk boys might be useful as well. People will be teching into anti tank, but having to kill both a trukk *and* 10 boys, plus your entire army worth of other vehicles you should be throwing at them, will be annoying enough where they might be amazing at both screening and simply helping you hold objectives mid board.

It's possibly worth experimenting. 10 T6 wounds with a 4+, 6++ for 65 points might actually be really good this edition .

The amount of dakka and out of LoS firepower they can dish out is NOT ok.


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tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

Killsaw is the same cost as the PK. the PK should never, ever be willingly taken.

You know, given the humble trukk went up like 1 point, I wonder too if Trukk boys might be useful as well. People will be teching into anti tank, but having to kill both a trukk *and* 10 boys, plus your entire army worth of other vehicles you should be throwing at them, will be annoying enough where they might be amazing at both screening and simply helping you hold objectives mid board.

It's possibly worth experimenting. 10 T6 wounds with a 4+, 6++ for 65 points might actually be really annoying .

In this moment a W on a truck is 1.5 PTS more expensive than a grot and 1.5 CHEAPER than a boy.
Food for thoughts.

 Emicrania wrote:

In this moment a W on a truck is 1.5 PTS more expensive than a grot and 1.5 CHEAPER than a boy.
Food for thoughts.

165 points (or 170 w/ double saw) for:

10 boys, 1 w/ rocket, 1 w/ tankbusta bomb, Nob w/ Saw(s)
Trukk.

In the grand scheme of things, if this is fielded with a pile of mek guns, buggies, planes, and a Mork? That might be frustrating as hell to deal with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickly tossed together list, exactly 2000.

Warboss on Bike 110
Wartrike 125
10 Boyz, rocket, Saw Nob x3 300
Truck x2 130
5 MANz, Saws 200
Battlewagon w/ Rolla 155
Gunwagon w/ Kannon 175
Morkanaut 340
Burna Bomber 155
2x Dragsta 220
KBB 90

Maybe just straight up swap the KBB and Gunwagon for Mek guns, upgrade your nobs to double saw?

I was toying with the idea of taking trukks in a foot ork list for each 30 man blob.

Nobody wants to shoot an empty trukk.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

Killsaw is the same cost as the PK. the PK should never, ever be willingly taken.

You know, given the humble trukk went up like 1 point, I wonder too if Trukk boys might be useful as well. People will be teching into anti tank, but having to kill both a trukk *and* 10 boys, plus your entire army worth of other vehicles you should be throwing at them, will be annoying enough where they might be amazing at both screening and simply helping you hold objectives mid board.

It's possibly worth experimenting. 10 T6 wounds with a 4+, 6++ for 65 points might actually be really good this edition .

What really? I must have missed in my first read through on the points leaks. That's kinda slowed tbh, what point is there in taking PK's outside of a warboss with the killa klaw then? Flat 2 damage and Ap-4 is far superior to klaw stats, soooooo yeah, I guess all my klaws count as saws this edition then.


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Bigdoza wrote:
I was toying with the idea of taking trukks in a foot ork list for each 30 man blob.

Nobody wants to shoot an empty trukk.

True, and it could be a good way to tie up units, especially now that FLY doesn't let you fall back and shoot.

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for you guys playing boyz mob, bring a KFF or a pack or Kleenex, because you'll gonna cry salty tears Vs ANY Imperium list. Astra, SM, SoB, and AD mech will evaporate 30 boyz in a jiff.

Do you mean a new tactics thread? Unfortunately the new forum rules won't allow for this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

With regards to trukk boyz I was thinking something like this for 2k:

Biker Boss
KFF Mek
6x10 Boyz
6 Trukks
3 SJD
3 Scrapjets

Could maybe cut down on the SJD and squeeze in some smasha guns, or maybe burna bommas?

The problem with trukks is the same problem they have had since 7th edition, they die VERY easily. And in a vehicle heavy edition like 9th seems like its going to be, the number of anti-tank weapons is going to be astoundingly high which in turn means those trukkz won't survive for very long. As of this moment a a Predator with 2 LC sponsons can merc a Trukk each turn, the new stuff especially the Multi-melta marines will be laughing as they liquefy those trukks.

I am still leaning heavily on the idea of boyz spam, as boring as it is to play. (Purely competitive build). I want to build a list with zero vehicles of any sort whatsoever so my opponent has to gnash his teeth and waste lascannon and Melta shots on boyz

Although that may be a decent exchange. Those eradicators just wouldn't be efficient if they're shooting at light vehicles. They want those big ticket targets that need 6 metlas to kill. Sure they can obliterate a trukk in a single volley, but you only need one to get into base contact to be in a good place in the exchange.

Tagging units in combat is less sure fire than last edition but it's still plenty important I reckon.

It's possible we may be okay with our horde of light vehicles that we can wrap with an invul. Forcing enemies to overcommit firepower could be a big part of our strategy. 9 Deffdreads could be fun purely because having one limping along on 1 wound is a pain the enemy can't ignore for too long.

What do you guys think of this:

"While we stand we fight".

This is a secondary where you choose the 3 most expensive models in your army; for each that is alive at the end of the game, gain 5 VP.

This seems very, very interesting... why? We have some units that could be completely annoying to kill by the end of the game. Ideally these units are also contributing on the battlefield and not just hiding.

1) Shock Jump dragsta. Cost for 3: 330 points. All it takes is one of these guys surviving and you get the 5 VPs. One can fire and fade for 1 CP every round. So use all 3 aggressively, and if two die, the 3rd simply plays "hide behind obscuring terrain" until end of the game.

2) Ghaz. 300 point monster. If healed with a painboy, he might survive the game, or be extremely frustrating to remove.

3) Deffkoptas (Evil Suns). 250 for a squad of 5. Can fire and fade, similar to the SJD for 1 CP.

Even 2 of 3 units surviving is 10 VPs, and something we can control quite strongly, and it's also irrespective of what our opponent is using.

It might be an interesting secondary for us, given our speed and some stratagems in our pocket. Thoughts?

Edit: if it's literally models, it could be a problem for the SJD.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


I feel like with all the discussion of deffskullz, that deffskullz trukk boyz with a rokkit and Nob with PK would be ideal uses of the troop slot. Or do we really need numbers to take control of objectives in the middle?

Killsaw is the same cost as the PK. the PK should never, ever be willingly taken.

You know, given the humble trukk went up like 1 point, I wonder too if Trukk boys might be useful as well. People will be teching into anti tank, but having to kill both a trukk *and* 10 boys, plus your entire army worth of other vehicles you should be throwing at them, will be annoying enough where they might be amazing at both screening and simply helping you hold objectives mid board.

It's possibly worth experimenting. 10 T6 wounds with a 4+, 6++ for 65 points might actually be really good this edition .

Dual killsaws on that unit and you're only up a few points compared to 8th edition for the same loadout.

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

I will be creating the new thread when the new edition officially launches. Otherwise the first few pages will be filled with speculation and not actual tactics. By the way, this will be the fifth thread of its kind I'll create

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess

It's not going to be more of a mess than we had ITC, ETC and GW rules and that worked fine as well. If anything, the games will be more alike than ever before because people don't base entire strategies around house rules that don't exist at all for other people, like magic boxes or ITC secondaries.

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

In this moment a W on a truck is 1.5 PTS more expensive than a grot and 1.5 CHEAPER than a boy.
Food for thoughts.

165 points (or 170 w/ double saw) for:

10 boys, 1 w/ rocket, 1 w/ tankbusta bomb, Nob w/ Saw(s)
Trukk.

In the grand scheme of things, if this is fielded with a pile of mek guns, buggies, planes, and a Mork? That might be frustrating as hell to deal with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickly tossed together list, exactly 2000.

Warboss on Bike 110
Wartrike 125
10 Boyz, rocket, Saw Nob x3 300
Truck x2 130
5 MANz, Saws 200
Battlewagon w/ Rolla 155
Gunwagon w/ Kannon 175
Morkanaut 340
Burna Bomber 155
2x Dragsta 220
KBB 90

Maybe just straight up swap the KBB and Gunwagon for Mek guns, upgrade your nobs to double saw?

Damn they are trying to sell those buggies .... I think some buggies are good, but still expensive for their points and their ridicolously large base makes it impossible to fit into a KFF range.
Why the Wartrike?
The list is a good start, but I think you need at least 2 planes .

I´m playing a DS batt

Big Mek KFF
Warboss Biggest Boss+Relic klaw
Warphead Weirdboy
10x2 Grots
30 Boyz (18 shoota+9choppa+rokkit+Saw nob)
2x4 MANz (3 PK+ DoubleSaw)
2 SJD with kustom job
Morka KFF with +1BS
6 smasha
2 bombers.

I think is a good list but it needs polishing. Maybe a Gunwagon and +1 MANz instead of the SJD or maybe more buggies. However Obj sec is huge this edition. Trukk boyz spam might not be a bad idea after all.

Dendarien wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And for you guys playing boyz mob, bring a KFF or a pack or Kleenex, because you'll gonna cry salty tears Vs ANY Imperium list. Astra, SM, SoB, and AD mech will evaporate 30 boyz in a jiff.

Do you mean a new tactics thread? Unfortunately the new forum rules won't allow for this: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/788821.page

With regards to trukk boyz I was thinking something like this for 2k:

Biker Boss
KFF Mek
6x10 Boyz
6 Trukks
3 SJD
3 Scrapjets

Could maybe cut down on the SJD and squeeze in some smasha guns, or maybe burna bommas?

From my understanding they wanna start even MORE 3d....

I like the list but if you are going with 6 trukk that KFF mek is doing nothing backfield and will get blown out T2 without a doubt.

Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
We should open a new 3d this Saturday? So maybe we can corroborate something more focused on 9th.

I will be creating the new thread when the new edition officially launches. Otherwise the first few pages will be filled with speculation and not actual tactics. By the way, this will be the fifth thread of its kind I'll create

Also I guess is important to remember that if we are talking competitive 40k, than we are talking always about the GT pack with the recommend board size. Otherwise It's gonna be a mess

It's not going to be more of a mess than we had ITC, ETC and GW rules and that worked fine as well. If anything, the games will be more alike than ever before because people don't base entire strategies around house rules that don't exist at all for other people, like magic boxes or ITC secondaries.

Awesome Jid

Can´t we implement a flair or something like that, when talking about other sistems beside the GT pack?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
What do you guys think of this:

"While we stand we fight".

This is a secondary where you choose the 3 most expensive models in your army; for each that is alive at the end of the game, gain 5 VP.

This seems very, very interesting... why? We have some units that could be completely annoying to kill by the end of the game. Ideally these units are also contributing on the battlefield and not just hiding.

1) Shock Jump dragsta. Cost for 3: 330 points. All it takes is one of these guys surviving and you get the 5 VPs. One can fire and fade for 1 CP every round. So use all 3 aggressively, and if two die, the 3rd simply plays "hide behind obscuring terrain" until end of the game.

2) Ghaz. 300 point monster. If healed with a painboy, he might survive the game, or be extremely frustrating to remove.

3) Deffkoptas (Evil Suns). 250 for a squad of 5. Can fire and fade, similar to the SJD for 1 CP.

Even 2 of 3 units surviving is 10 VPs, and something we can control quite strongly, and it's also irrespective of what our opponent is using.

It might be an interesting secondary for us, given our speed and some stratagems in our pocket. Thoughts?

Edit: if it's literally models, it could be a problem for the SJD.

I guess it is important to understand first if it is models or units. Than i wouldn´t base a 1/6 of my income on NOT playing a model.
Also ghaz, he dies. I can promise you that he does .