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Trukks are also great speedbumps

Their body is big enough where they can easily completely block off pathways, forcing the opponent to deal with them even if theyr empty, and nobody wants to kill one if its empty as it doesnt really offer much reward, even if it explodes.
So they will probably try to kill it with smaller weapons then charge whatever is behind it. The few times ive had a trukk in 8th that happened to me and the look on my opponent's face when that stupid trukk still had 1W and he was out of guns that wasnt lascannon-level was glorious lol.

Lack of purpose outside being in the way was the only reason i never used them that much. But like Jidmah said, they feel like they have purpose again. I may finally build that 4th trukk i got that i havnt parted out yet lol.

 Jidmah wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
and dont forget that cover is gained if in 3" of a ruin or building, so sneaky gitz get the cover bonus if staying close to terrain without losing the LOS blocking trait.

That's not how the rules work. You gain cover if you are within 3" of an OBSTACLE and fully behind it, ruins are AREA TERRAIN who require you to be inside them to benefit from cover. None of the pre-defined obstacles have the obscuring trait and only ruin walls have "dense" but do not provide a bonus to armor because they lack the light terrain keyword. Or, in other words, you cannot be hidden from sight and receive a cover bonus from the same piece of terrain.

ahhh ok i checked... i read it as RUIN WALLS instead of ruinED walls, guess i have to break up my ruins into multiple parts xD

btw... how does the cover benefit from kommandos work? what kind cover counts for the bonus? just light cover?

Yeh lol Trukk screens instead of Gretchin. Weird edition haha

well when the price difference is less than that between grots and boyz while having the same amount of wounds but vastly tougher to hurt.....
Trukk screens not so weird. Cant even say the grots cover more ground since coherency got nerfed. (i mean technically they do but just barely)

Do y'all think slugga boyz are the way to go for trukk boyz? I see shoota boyz being more useful in 30 man blobs due to limits on engagement range, but every attack counts when you have fewer boyz. I guess they can shoot out of the trukk, though slugga boyz can shoot their pistols if the trukk gets into combat which is something.

Let us know how it goes Jid

The burnabomber is 145 or 155 nowadays?

It's 155 (125+10+10+10) base and the optional skorcha missiles are now another 10 points..

oh FFS.....

Yeah like anybody is ever gotta take skorcha missiles.
10pts on a model thats gonna use it once (T1 fly over something while it goes off the board. T2 come back, cant bomb so shoot at a distance. T3, fly to a character tarpit, bomb something on the way, explode)

 Dendarien wrote:
Do y'all think slugga boyz are the way to go for trukk boyz? I see shoota boyz being more useful in 30 man blobs due to limits on engagement range, but every attack counts when you have fewer boyz. I guess they can shoot out of the trukk, though slugga boyz can shoot their pistols if the trukk gets into combat which is something.

I honestly think Shoota Boyz are going to be better in all builds. 1 less attack per model feels far less significant when you're struggling to even get 2 ranks to fight. Shoota Boyz can do so much more from better positions.

I think mixing shootas and sluggas could be a standard way to run 30 mobz of boyz, especially those units that are designed to sit on objectives before they die.

I never mixed up the two kinds of weapons before beacuse I don't like it as a concept but now that only a few dudes get to fight the orks in the back rows can do something with some extra shots at least.

Ok for the trukks, I'll sure hope they'll clarify it, but I'll add my stone if they don't.

I don't like to mix up shootas and sluggas as it get a bit messy to my taste.

What do you guys think about a unit of 3 deaf dread full dakka (rokkit and/or kmb) with sparkly bits ? For a bit under 300pts you start to get some serious BS4+ dakka. Sure they are separate units after deployment so you can't really buff them more but they are still quite resilient.
Full rokkitz as boomboyz, it starts to hurt no ?

Thought bout that myself but in doing so you completely axe melee and theyre shockingly close to a mork price now.

Mork 340pts
--Has KFF
--2 Rokkits
--2TwinBigshootas
--KMB
--3D3 36" KMB shots from KMZ
--Still has deadly melee

3x KMB Dreads 300pts
--Has no melee (outside basic statline punches)
--12 KMB shots at 24" divided among the 3 of them

The Dreads would be more annoying but not really harder to get rid of, since toughness/KFF difference offsets the slight wound difference in favor of the dreads (24w vs 18w)

Mork has effectively the same amount of dakka, its just shifted around a bit (rokkits instead of 2 more KMBs plus some twinbigs) and part of it is subject to RNG so its maybe slightly lower but not enough to really notice. It does have range though, and that 36" range KMZ has enabled him to nuke something dangerous in the backfield way too many times to count for me that 24" wasnt able to reach.

I guess if you desperately need that 40pts it coudl be a viable switch but i'd rather just pay the 40pts.

Yeah I just kinda wanted it to work...

So a thought just occurred to me. How well would a -1 to hit ork build do? We have a whole mess of flyers, the snazzwagons seem decently priced now, and we can give a unit of 3 dreads -1 to hit with dirty gubbins. You could take a fast attack detachment to cheap out on chaff and just roam around the field being relatively tough to shift.

cody.d. wrote:
So a thought just occurred to me. How well would a -1 to hit ork build do? We have a whole mess of flyers, the snazzwagons seem decently priced now, and we can give a unit of 3 dreads -1 to hit with dirty gubbins. You could take a fast attack detachment to cheap out on chaff and just roam around the field being relatively tough to shift.

Problem is -1 to hit isn't that powerful, and a lot of armies that we will face have so many +1 to hits and/or reroll hits/wounds that it almost defeats the entire purpose of it.

If you bring any -1 to hit weapons with any army now that unit is essentially immune to any hit reduction shenanigans the enemy has to offer?

Bigdoza wrote:
If you bring any -1 to hit weapons with any army now that unit is essentially immune to any hit reduction shenanigans the enemy has to offer?

From what's written so far in the BRB that's been leaked so far, it seems so yes. So if you move with an infantry unit holding a heavy weapon, you wouldn't suffer any further -1 to hit penalties than the initial -1 to hit, though it is important to note that any positive mods can be nullified if there's more sources of negative to hit mods than there are positives.

On a side note, I haven't been able to find the FW Xenos points leaks online, is it confirmed that the Warboss on Warbike is around 100 points (excluding wargear) atm?

Madjob wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Do y'all think slugga boyz are the way to go for trukk boyz? I see shoota boyz being more useful in 30 man blobs due to limits on engagement range, but every attack counts when you have fewer boyz. I guess they can shoot out of the trukk, though slugga boyz can shoot their pistols if the trukk gets into combat which is something.

I honestly think Shoota Boyz are going to be better in all builds. 1 less attack per model feels far less significant when you're struggling to even get 2 ranks to fight. Shoota Boyz can do so much more from better positions.

There is absolutely nothing that says you can't have slugga+choppa boyz and the nob in the front rank swinging while the shootas are in the rear.

Your units do not need to be homogenous.

My problem with shootas, personally, is that their shooting sucks. It's kind of garbage point-for-point. It's not like 5th edition where they were actually better at shooting point for point than Boltguns.

Add cover (+1 save, cutting damage in half against PEQ/MEQ), or -1 to hit (cutting damage in half). What is the point?

 TedNugent wrote:

Madjob wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
Do y'all think slugga boyz are the way to go for trukk boyz? I see shoota boyz being more useful in 30 man blobs due to limits on engagement range, but every attack counts when you have fewer boyz. I guess they can shoot out of the trukk, though slugga boyz can shoot their pistols if the trukk gets into combat which is something.

I honestly think Shoota Boyz are going to be better in all builds. 1 less attack per model feels far less significant when you're struggling to even get 2 ranks to fight. Shoota Boyz can do so much more from better positions.

There is absolutely nothing that says you can't have slugga+choppa boyz and the nob in the front rank swinging while the shootas are in the rear.

Your units do not need to be homogenous.

My problem with shootas, personally, is that their shooting sucks. It's kind of garbage point-for-point. It's not like 5th edition where they were actually better at shooting point for point than Boltguns.

Add cover (+1 save, cutting damage in half against PEQ/MEQ), or -1 to hit (cutting damage in half). What is the point?

Against primaris, yeah, their shooting isn't ideal, but to be fair, if you're relying on shootas to do the bulk of the work you're doing it wrong anyways. The shooting gives them more flexibility than sluggas, who can only charge to do the bulk of their damage, and the choice to stay inside the trukk to whittle down screens and plink off the last wound off surviving units.

You can get some mileage with a 30/10 mobbed up unit of badmoons with more dakka and showin off. But that's a loooot of dice to roll with honestly not that much effect. That same combo could work decently with mechanical seizures as well I suppose.

Actually, the number of hits for the same number of Shoota boys vs say... Assault Bolt Rifle Intercessors (assault 3) is not that different unit per unit.

(50 shots, 3 extra hits from explosions is about 20 hits... vs 20 hits for the intercessors above)

The main difference:

Intercessors benefit from doctrines, can get re-rolls to hit and wound, have actual staying power with 2 wounds and potentially a 2+ save in cover, and are a decent threat in CC.

If Shoota boys could bring that fire power to bare over multple turns instead of getting blown off the board, we might have a better opinion of their killing power. Or if they had easy access to AP-1.

Anyone had any luck with any Ork lists for 9th after the points changes? I've got a pretty good collection, but can't seem to find a way to make them work in 9th after the points changes.

cody.d. wrote:
You can get some mileage with a 30/10 mobbed up unit of badmoons with more dakka and showin off. But that's a loooot of dice to roll with honestly not that much effect. That same combo could work decently with mechanical seizures as well I suppose.

I think mechanical seizures works only for DS units, so not for double shooting bad moon boyz. To be verified though

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thought bout that myself but in doing so you completely axe melee and theyre shockingly close to a mork price now.

Mork 340pts
--Has KFF
--2 Rokkits
--2TwinBigshootas
--KMB
--3D3 36" KMB shots from KMZ
--Still has deadly melee

3x KMB Dreads 300pts
--Has no melee (outside basic statline punches)
--12 KMB shots at 24" divided among the 3 of them

The Dreads would be more annoying but not really harder to get rid of, since toughness/KFF difference offsets the slight wound difference in favor of the dreads (24w vs 18w)

Mork has effectively the same amount of dakka, its just shifted around a bit (rokkits instead of 2 more KMBs plus some twinbigs) and part of it is subject to RNG so its maybe slightly lower but not enough to really notice. It does have range though, and that 36" range KMZ has enabled him to nuke something dangerous in the backfield way too many times to count for me that 24" wasnt able to reach.

I guess if you desperately need that 40pts it coudl be a viable switch but i'd rather just pay the 40pts.

Why not including a big mek with KFF with the dreads lot? This way the comparison would be more fair, 340 vs 360 points. I would consider taking 2-3 KMB per walkers, not full KMB though. Dreads would be way more resilient than the naut, definitely more versatile, also better in combat with their 9-12 attacks that don't degrade, depending on how many KMB the dreads have. Shooting would be slightly inferior but deathskulls re-rolls would apply for any model compensating a little bit.

However I'm not sold on giving shooting options to dreads, or keeping all under the KFF bubble without spreading them after deployment, they've have served me fine as pure melee units. They're good distractions or babysitters for backline shooters. 3 dreads with -1 to hit are as resilient as a Mork with KFF basically, maybe even more and in some moments of the game they could even be under a KFF bubble.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
You can get some mileage with a 30/10 mobbed up unit of badmoons with more dakka and showin off. But that's a loooot of dice to roll with honestly not that much effect. That same combo could work decently with mechanical seizures as well I suppose.

I think mechanical seizures works only for DS units, so not for double shooting bad moon boyz. To be verified though

Yeah, the improvement on the AP only applies for Deathskullz units. The enemy unit that was affected by the power suffer the -1 to hit even against non Deathskullz units though.

Page 369 of this thread for FW point

Really annoyed how GW treats these supplement books in editions. PA book series aint the first that becomes a mess bit too quickly after selling... Leaving just confusion and frustration amongst players.

Why not including a big mek with KFF with the dreads lot? This way the comparison would be more fair, 340 vs 360 points. I would consider taking 2-3 KMB per walkers, not full KMB though. Dreads would be way more resilient than the naut, definitely more versatile, also better in combat with their 9-12 attacks that don't degrade, depending on how many KMB the dreads have. Shooting would be slightly inferior but deathskulls re-rolls would apply for any model compensating a little bit.

However I'm not sold on giving shooting options to dreads, or keeping all under the KFF bubble without spreading them after deployment, they've have served me fine as pure melee units. They're good distractions or babysitters for backline shooters. 3 dreads with -1 to hit are as resilient as a Mork with KFF basically, maybe even more and in some moments of the game they could even be under a KFF bubble.

I didnt include the KFF Mek for 2 reasons
1) That actually makes them cost MORE than the Morkanaut
2) Assuming Deathskullz because nobody uses KMBz unless youre deathskulz you still have a 6++ anyway and it doesnt force them to huddle in one spot, removing their one advantage of being able to spread out across the board.

Which now that i think about it is another slight benefit, the Dread trio would get 3 reroll sets as theyre 3 units once deployed, the mork gets 1. So thats a thing too.

Alot of armies get +1 to wound roll now ya?

I feel the deff dread toughness is alot more of a liability compared to the mork,especially considering how many damn shots people get now.

I'm bad at math, but how does sparky bits, freebootas, quad kmb dreads compare to deathskulls?

Bigdoza wrote:
Alot of armies get +1 to wound roll now ya?

I feel the deff dread toughness is alot more of a liability compared to the mork,especially considering how many damn shots people get now.

I'm bad at math, but how does sparky bits, freebootas, quad kmb dreads compare to deathskulls?

I think BS3+ vs DS on Hits is pretty close. The issue is the damage roll. Each Deff Dreads gets to re-roll a damage roll, which can be a MASSIVE difference in outcome.

Rolling a 1 on your damage roll hurts.

On +1 wound -- not really? I guess Salamanders and Blood angels, but i don't think its ubiqutious


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It really can't be undersold how good lucky re-rolls are.

Like I would believe a 4 attack Deathskull Deff Dread with 2 KMB is probably more consistent than a 6 attack CC dread from Evil Suns. Just being able to re-roll that hit and wound roll smooths out your damage so effectively.

I could see a very potent CC DS Deff Dread assuming it's easy enough to get them into CC. I'd probably still keep the KMB, though, to maximize re-rolls and bust up the heavy infantry / tanks.