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Sir Heckington wrote: Could be. It'd be kinda weird to have chaos left in the dust with regular marines while new marines become all primaris, not sure how I feel about it.
Given they're currently poor performers that's understandable. But imagine a situation where the basic marine statline is viable. Would it be so bad then? Chaos waving the flag for the old way, in archaic style armour, against hyper modern loyalists. Seems pretty cool to me
It would still be lame that Chaos Marines would be smaller and individually weaker than the loyalists. It should be other way around, the Chaos Marines being mutated and warp empowered monstrosities, with millennia of experience.
Actually I could see this being a thing. We have Possessed and other variations of mutated marines; however, perhaps instead of getting technological advances like the loyalists, maybe the Chaos marines become even more warp tainted as a result of "power creep"? For example, Khorne Zerkers get more beastial, ala Wulfkin, or normal Chaos Marines begin getting mutations in place of conventional weaponry. This could be a good point where they begin dividing Chaos and Loyalist marines as more than "good or bad" marines. Primaris would be a good way to differentiate, especially if they keep the whole angle that they don't fall to chaos like normal marines.
Theres a lot they could do with this. I do like how they are progressing characters beyond what we have previously seen.
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
2018/11/24 22:54:56
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Everyone's referring to the "Primaris Rubricon" as a place or event in the 40k setting, but to me it just sounds like a figurative turn of phrase. The Rubricon was the river that Julius Caesar crossed when he invaded Rome in 49BCE. It was ...
1) The moment of no going back
2) the start of Caesar's ascent to power
3) the breaking of an ancient tradition in the republic, that no commander would bring his army over the Rubricon to threaten Rome.
It's even a pretty common idiom: 'crossing the Rubricon'. I think the three meanings of the term map pretty well on to Calgar going Primaris.
2018/11/24 23:14:34
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Still not sure where (In fluff or model line) this leaves Scouts...
Is the whole 10th company just waiting there like..."****, we've been passed over promotion already?". Then out strutting comes this giant Reiver saying "Sorry dude.".
2018/11/24 23:24:08
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Scouts are still there. GW stated in a recent article that many chapters are still making standard marines ‘for their more flexible and readily available equipment and combat doctrines’.
So Scouts are still around to make marines as before.
Primaris don’t have a scout stage, they are trained extensively with simulation and even greater hypno-indoctrination before deploying in a line squad.
2018/11/24 23:49:00
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
robbienw wrote: GW stated in the vigilus seminar that regular marines are going nowhere, and that grey knights will not be primarised or getting any primaris.
Phew. Any chance of video evidence of that statement?
2018/11/24 23:56:53
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
This is what people who have attended the seminar have said, guys such as Chapter Master Valrak. I don’t think they allow people to take videos in the seminars!
On the other hand, what do you expect them to say? "Marines are getting dumped, don't buy anything because they won't be supported 6 months from now"? Of course they're going to say that regular marines aren't going anywhere, right up until GW finishes their primaris plan and dumps the obsolete product line. And it will most likely happen after rules support is discontinued, leaving original marines a non-competitive "index" faction while the primaris units get updated and competitive rules. Either this will produce the low sales that justify dropping the line, or maybe at best old marines will stick around as direct-only collector items in some obscure corner of the GW online store.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2018/11/25 00:38:44
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
It's kind of a double edged sword. Nice models but I'd rather not have everything more or less removed. But I think it'll slowly go to a double thick codex
I think Calgar is a nice looking model, I prefer plastic over resin. I'd rather see resin phased out than normal marines
Appearantly calgar almost died from the operation which is interesting. I think some characters may not service the operations...
At the end of the day I just want plastic LotD models. Just one 10 man box please.
2018/11/25 01:14:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Didn't they say on the last seminar that they won't update GK with primaris though? they would have to remove the whole faction in the future, if that was true. Plus with a huge secondary market they would be pissing a ton of people off, if they suddenly decide to pull the plug on a 40 year frenchise.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/11/25 01:18:58
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Didn't they say on the last seminar that they won't update GK with primaris though? they would have to remove the whole faction in the future, if that was true. Plus with a huge secondary market they would be pissing a ton of people off, if they suddenly decide to pull the plug on a 40 year frenchise.
You know they literally did that to half the WHFB armies, right?
2018/11/25 01:27:18
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Didn't they say on the last seminar that they won't update GK with primaris though? they would have to remove the whole faction in the future, if that was true. Plus with a huge secondary market they would be pissing a ton of people off, if they suddenly decide to pull the plug on a 40 year frenchise.
You know they literally did that to half the WHFB armies, right?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Given how old the ork boys, rhino, and eldar guardian molds are, they won't wear out anytime soon. These are steel plastic injection molds, they don't typically wear out.
Sir Heckington wrote: Could be. It'd be kinda weird to have chaos left in the dust with regular marines while new marines become all primaris, not sure how I feel about it.
Given they're currently poor performers that's understandable. But imagine a situation where the basic marine statline is viable. Would it be so bad then? Chaos waving the flag for the old way, in archaic style armour, against hyper modern loyalists. Seems pretty cool to me
It would still be lame that Chaos Marines would be smaller and individually weaker than the loyalists. It should be other way around, the Chaos Marines being mutated and warp empowered monstrosities, with millennia of experience.
That's why I want Chosen to be the base troop for CSM and we just lose the Chaos Marine entry altogether. Then we need Plague Marines and Rubric Marines to have Vet stats and for Berserker and Noise Marines to get Vet LD.
Issue with this: What about recently converted CSM? Or new CSM? Not all CSM are vets of the long war, and because of warp time, not all have tons of experience.
lord_blackfang wrote: I hope GW uses the Primaris Rubikon to kill off a bunch of Ultramarine characters and we can finally have some parity in the field between chapters.
I just wish that instead of bunch of special characters, we had better rules for customising and equipping our own characters. Then people who care about official characters could use those rules to build them too.
They're doing exactly that in Chapter Approves 2018.
For Open Play only, of course
This is what's most disappointing. GW finally gives rules for campaigns and customizing characters...
And they are open play only. (Which lets be honest, nobody plays)
You know, that's interesting, I feel like every pick up game I play outside of league is an open play game. Nobody uses power, tho.
That said, most of the games I play are in league, and the games I play with my close friends are always itc, so I still play matched play most often.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/25 06:07:05
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Sir Heckington wrote: Could be. It'd be kinda weird to have chaos left in the dust with regular marines while new marines become all primaris, not sure how I feel about it.
Given they're currently poor performers that's understandable. But imagine a situation where the basic marine statline is viable. Would it be so bad then? Chaos waving the flag for the old way, in archaic style armour, against hyper modern loyalists. Seems pretty cool to me
It would still be lame that Chaos Marines would be smaller and individually weaker than the loyalists. It should be other way around, the Chaos Marines being mutated and warp empowered monstrosities, with millennia of experience.
That's why I want Chosen to be the base troop for CSM and we just lose the Chaos Marine entry altogether. Then we need Plague Marines and Rubric Marines to have Vet stats and for Berserker and Noise Marines to get Vet LD.
Issue with this: What about recently converted CSM? Or new CSM? Not all CSM are vets of the long war, and because of warp time, not all have tons of experience.
lord_blackfang wrote: I hope GW uses the Primaris Rubikon to kill off a bunch of Ultramarine characters and we can finally have some parity in the field between chapters.
I just wish that instead of bunch of special characters, we had better rules for customising and equipping our own characters. Then people who care about official characters could use those rules to build them too.
They're doing exactly that in Chapter Approves 2018.
For Open Play only, of course
This is what's most disappointing. GW finally gives rules for campaigns and customizing characters...
And they are open play only. (Which lets be honest, nobody plays)
You know, that's interesting, I feel like every pick up game I play outside of league is an open play game. Nobody uses power, tho.
That said, most of the games I play are in league, and the games I play with my close friends are always itc, so I still play matched play most often.
Based on the custom Land Raider rules last year, I expect the custom character rules to be PL only. So if you play points you're either out of luck or you'll have to guess points based on PL.
I love the whinging and exaggerations over custom stuff being "Open Play" only. That doesn't mean gak.
What it does mean is that no tournament organizer is going to take the time to spot-check your iffy math. There's feth all that stops you from playing your custom stuff in a normal game of 40K just like you do any other unit. Power Level? 20 points per power level, move on, or you can actually find the basic point values in your codex anyway.
We play with custom units and characters all the time in...GASP...narrative using points (i.e. we follow the matched play rules but generally ignore the missions). I think it's asinine to expect any custom stuff being intended for matched play - no TO has that kind of time to go picking through 200-400 custom characters (because we know people will find a way to make the cheesiest gak possible and try to bring it to a tournament....we know this).
Why are people so unable to fathom just playing the game the way you want to play it with your buddies? It's not hard. It's fething simple.
Elbows wrote: I love the whinging and exaggerations over custom stuff being "Open Play" only. That doesn't mean gak.
What it does mean is that no tournament organizer is going to take the time to spot-check your iffy math. There's feth all that stops you from playing your custom stuff in a normal game of 40K just like you do any other unit. Power Level? 20 points per power level, move on, or you can actually find the basic point values in your codex anyway.
We play with custom units and characters all the time in...GASP...narrative using points (i.e. we follow the matched play rules but generally ignore the missions). I think it's asinine to expect any custom stuff being intended for matched play - no TO has that kind of time to go picking through 200-400 custom characters (because we know people will find a way to make the cheesiest gak possible and try to bring it to a tournament....we know this).
Why are people so unable to fathom just playing the game the way you want to play it with your buddies? It's not hard. It's fething simple.
underlined for agreement and exalt
2018/11/25 08:36:52
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Because I play points. I love playing points and wouldn't want to play without them. I don't mind something not being intended for organised play, that's fine. But give us points for it still!
And also because the custom Land Raider was insanely priced in PL. It was the equivalent of 600 points for a unit that wasn't meaningfully better than the standard Land Raider which is already overpriced at not far off half that! So if you want to play it you either massively gimp your army or are put in the awkward position of asking your opponent if you can pay less for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/25 08:39:56
2018/11/25 09:46:06
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Stux wrote: Because I play points. I love playing points and wouldn't want to play without them. I don't mind something not being intended for organised play, that's fine. But give us points for it still!
And also because the custom Land Raider was insanely priced in PL. It was the equivalent of 600 points for a unit that wasn't meaningfully better than the standard Land Raider which is already overpriced at not far off half that! So if you want to play it you either massively gimp your army or are put in the awkward position of asking your opponent if you can pay less for it.
What's the difference between the two in PL?
I don't have CA2017 to check.
213PL 60PL 12PL 9-17PL (she/her)
2018/11/25 11:19:28
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Given how old the ork boys, rhino, and eldar guardian molds are, they won't wear out anytime soon. These are steel plastic injection molds, they don't typically wear out.
Yeah there are plenty of old molds around still, the land raider is 18 years old, the catachan infantry sprue is 19, and the eldar falcon must be over 20 now!
2018/11/25 11:56:46
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Stux wrote: Because I play points. I love playing points and wouldn't want to play without them. I don't mind something not being intended for organised play, that's fine. But give us points for it still!
And also because the custom Land Raider was insanely priced in PL. It was the equivalent of 600 points for a unit that wasn't meaningfully better than the standard Land Raider which is already overpriced at not far off half that! So if you want to play it you either massively gimp your army or are put in the awkward position of asking your opponent if you can pay less for it.
What's the difference between the two in PL?
I don't have CA2017 to check.
Regular Land Raiders are 19PL, Crusaders are 16PL. The CA custom Land Raiders are 30PL.
2018/11/25 12:52:48
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
I'd say primaris where originally intended to replace the old marine designs, and frankly they seem like 8th ed was going to blow up 40k the same way they did AOS, except they decided against it, and now they need to somehow combine the aborted project into the existing universe and we wind up with what we've got now.
Now? I would be stunned to see a new loyalist marine sculpt outside the space marine heroes line that isn't primaris, but I doubt they're going to huck the molds out the window any time soon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/25 12:53:18
2018/11/25 13:08:02
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Didn't they say on the last seminar that they won't update GK with primaris though? they would have to remove the whole faction in the future, if that was true. Plus with a huge secondary market they would be pissing a ton of people off, if they suddenly decide to pull the plug on a 40 year frenchise.
You know they literally did that to half the WHFB armies, right?
I did not know that. Considering they did, this means they will phase out GK. Well the CA rules better be OP as hell then, at least they let them go off with a bang.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/11/25 13:20:58
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
Eventually GW are going to have to retire the oldMarine moulds, and there is no chance in heck that they would re-commission the old moulds or make new ones.
Didn't they say on the last seminar that they won't update GK with primaris though? they would have to remove the whole faction in the future, if that was true. Plus with a huge secondary market they would be pissing a ton of people off, if they suddenly decide to pull the plug on a 40 year frenchise.
You know they literally did that to half the WHFB armies, right?
I did not know that. Considering they did, this means they will phase out GK. Well the CA rules better be OP as hell then, at least they let them go off with a bang.
Note that they didn't say GK will never get Primaris though. They just said they weren't on the way. It's not something they're currently working on. They can only release so many kits a year after all and have to prioritise design and production time. I take it as them simply saying they completely updating the GK line is not a priority at the moment.
2018/11/25 13:29:00
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
From what I understand at the seminar they said a No and not the usual we have no plans at the moment etc. And it was a firm fast no, without any thinking or wondering, if something doesn't get leaked unintentionally.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2018/11/25 13:39:03
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
There is probably a long list of Primaris releases planned for the normal marines, and Primaris GKs is something that may happen after all that, so it is not even in the planning stage yet.
well its says in the new chapter approved for open and (but less so fo matched play that will happen
I just wish that instead of bunch of special characters, we had better rules for customising and equipping our own characters. Then people who care about official characters could use those rules to build them too.
I'm dyslexic and thus am bad at spelling and grammar please don't remind me in comments to my posts.
The flesh tearers really like killing so much. In fact they may love it more than inquisitors.
2018/11/25 14:48:12
Subject: Adeptus Astartes heros becoming Primaris heros?
deotrims 16th wrote: well its says in the new chapter approved for open and (but less so fo matched play that will happen
I just wish that instead of bunch of special characters, we had better rules for customising and equipping our own characters. Then people who care about official characters could use those rules to build them too.
Giving Primaris characters full access to combi weapons, storm shields, and power weapons would certainly go a long way to improving some people's view of Primaris.
No kit no rules I guess... I understand the reasons for that policy but feel exceptions should be made when it's a simple weapon swap!
60PL 
12PL 
