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They can also shoot twice and re-roll 1's.

But The other weapon is normally better in most situations due to longer ranger and ignore los, so you can fully hide it all game.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
They can also shoot twice and re-roll 1's.

But The other weapon is normally better in most situations due to longer ranger and ignore los, so you can fully hide it all game.

Normally, yeah. Jorm makes a good case for the shockcannon as it's easy to tunnel and alpha with it. Plus the Impaler is essentially a venom cannon, stat-wise, which can be taken elsewhere, and the Jorm warlord trait can give them ignore cover. Shockcannon is cheaper, too. I'm looking at it more and more because of the knights and Custodes that are pretty regular.

I just thought I'd mention it since people were up in arms over haywire harlequins.

Seems like you could knock out a knight in one turn with about 800 points of models at 24" including the Raveners to tunnel them. Around 32 Mortal Wounds not including any traditional damage by the Autocannon-esqe stats.

yeah and Taking seperate detachments isn't a given for Tyranids because of the way synapse works. Unless you want to add 70 pts to the cost of a unit of Hive Guard for the ability just to pick their targets. Alot of people prefer Kraken for getting them in position anyway. They don't get to reroll 1s for free like that at all.

 SHUPPET wrote:
yeah and Taking seperate detachments isn't a given for Tyranids because of the way synapse works. Unless you want to add 70 pts to the cost of a unit of Hive Guard for the ability just to pick their targets. Alot of people prefer Kraken for getting them in position anyway. They don't get to reroll 1s for free like that at all.

My calculations were without rerolls, and I always have been running full Jorm. Neurothropes are great buys anyways, regardless.

Add a generous amount of salt to the following as the source is some random guy on Facebook claiming to have glanced CA, but:
WKs base cost appears to be 315pts and the Suncannon has gone down to 60ppm. No mention of other costs.

If that's true, the Suncannon/Shield WK went down quite a bit. Still not going to be very competitive, but it should do well in a casual list.
Now if the HWC go WAY down, like >35ppm, than the standard variant of WK might be useful again. But given that even Twin-Lascannons are rumoured to be 40ppm, and a HWC is basically a S16 Twin-las, I doubt that will happen

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Imo, things like the HWC should be like the Admech Laser. D6 damage, but always does a minimum of 3.
It’s so frustrating to put so many points into weapons and platforms, only to see them fail hard due to damage rolls.

Kdash wrote:
Imo, things like the HWC should be like the Admech Laser. D6 damage, but always does a minimum of 3.
It’s so frustrating to put so many points into weapons and platforms, only to see them fail hard due to damage rolls.

That's not bad. I too wish GW had been willing to do more "odd" damage values, like D3+2 or 2D3, and such rather than D3 or D6 only
A Lascannon, for example, could easily do D6+1 damage or 2D3 damage

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Since my WK is not magnetized and is suncannon/shield, I will be happy with a huge reduction. Currently paying 570pts for it with dual starcannon shoulders, but if it truly goes down to 425pts, I may think about adding it in on a regular basis. That's a 25% points reduction.

I may even buy a second one for the sword/shield (which I will magnetize this time around)

 Insectum7 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
yeah and Taking seperate detachments isn't a given for Tyranids because of the way synapse works. Unless you want to add 70 pts to the cost of a unit of Hive Guard for the ability just to pick their targets. Alot of people prefer Kraken for getting them in position anyway. They don't get to reroll 1s for free like that at all.

My calculations were without rerolls, and I always have been running full Jorm. Neurothropes are great buys anyways, regardless.

not you, I was agreeing with what you said and referring to the post that said Hive Guard have re-rolls to 1s.

 bullyboy wrote:
Since my WK is not magnetized and is suncannon/shield, I will be happy with a huge reduction. Currently paying 570pts for it with dual starcannon shoulders, but if it truly goes down to 425pts, I may think about adding it in on a regular basis. That's a 25% points reduction.

I may even buy a second one for the sword/shield (which I will magnetize this time around)

425 for suncannon 2x starcannon WK is competitive. 5++ all the time and you will fortune it.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Since my WK is not magnetized and is suncannon/shield, I will be happy with a huge reduction. Currently paying 570pts for it with dual starcannon shoulders, but if it truly goes down to 425pts, I may think about adding it in on a regular basis. That's a 25% points reduction.

I may even buy a second one for the sword/shield (which I will magnetize this time around)

425 for suncannon 2x starcannon WK is competitive. 5++ all the time and you will fortune it.

Except at 2d6 shots, it's to unreliable. If it were Assault 12 or even 6 + D6, then it would be somewhat viable. As is, I can find better, more reliable firepower for that amount of points

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Since my WK is not magnetized and is suncannon/shield, I will be happy with a huge reduction. Currently paying 570pts for it with dual starcannon shoulders, but if it truly goes down to 425pts, I may think about adding it in on a regular basis. That's a 25% points reduction.

I may even buy a second one for the sword/shield (which I will magnetize this time around)

425 for suncannon 2x starcannon WK is competitive. 5++ all the time and you will fortune it.

Except at 2d6 shots, it's to unreliable. If it were Assault 12 or even 6 + D6, then it would be somewhat viable. As is, I can find better, more reliable firepower for that amount of points

But it's also a capable CC monster and it's tough to kill. It averages 11 shots ap-3 with D3 damage - kind of like an Imperial knight warden with a CC invo save and the ability to be fortuned and access to eldar shooting buffs.

Suncannon is a blast weapon and random shots is how that is represented in this edition, like it or not. They should up its strength and/or damage though, then it wouldn't just be a worse avenger gatling cannon. Wraithcannons could use a damage increase too, at least give them melta-style, 'roll two dice, pick the better' rule.

 Galef wrote:
Add a generous amount of salt to the following as the source is some random guy on Facebook claiming to have glanced CA, but:
WKs base cost appears to be 315pts and the Suncannon has gone down to 60ppm. No mention of other costs.

If that's true, the Suncannon/Shield WK went down quite a bit. Still not going to be very competitive, but it should do well in a casual list.
Now if the HWC go WAY down, like >35ppm, than the standard variant of WK might be useful again. But given that even Twin-Lascannons are rumoured to be 40ppm, and a HWC is basically a S16 Twin-las, I doubt that will happen

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You know, if this happens to be true I might take out my old WK for a spin. I truly hope so as I really like playing monsters.

The should just add the shield in the base, so you can use the cannons. 400-500 pts for model without invul is plain stupid.

Although it's only a 5++.

Marin wrote:
The should just add the shield in the base, so you can use the cannons. 400-500 pts for model without invul is plain stupid.

Kind of agree, but that's can't happen because you can't model it that way. The shield goes in the same place that a HWC goes (if you are following the instructions)

What the WKs really should have is Spirit Stones. Ya know, those stones the model is COVERED with and the Spirit stone embedding in the chest being the dead twin of the pilot.
If Hemlocks have Spirit Stones by default, WKs should too, maybe even WLords

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 Galef wrote:

Marin wrote:
The should just add the shield in the base, so you can use the cannons. 400-500 pts for model without invul is plain stupid.

Kind of agree, but that's can't happen because you can't model it that way. The shield goes in the same place that a HWC goes (if you are following the instructions)

What the WKs really should have is Spirit Stones. Ya know, those stones the model is COVERED with and the Spirit stone embedding in the chest being the dead twin of the pilot.
If Hemlocks have Spirit Stones by default, WK should too

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I've always kinda thought that the sheild should be a 4++ and the base WK should have a 5++.

Again, I'd still like to get one as a centrepiece model (and for silly superheavy games), but even as a casual player (and yes, even with a points drop!) it's a really tough proposition compared to a lot of other units/models/opposing super heavies.

Admittedly you can boost its survivability and effectiveness with spells, but you're now adding 150-200 points worth of psykers to the cost of the unit. Four shots without an invulnerable save is just dire, and 2D6 shots with an invuln save is super mediocre. Frustrating. I don't think the main issues with the unit are cost, just simply what it's been given as weapons and stats/options.

I've still no clue why it has to have fixed weapon options. Why not HWC/shield or HWC/suncannon? It's all in the same box. Not saying it's any good, but the lack of choice is puzzling. I picked the suncannon option since the rest of my wraith army brought enough D to not worry about armour.

 bullyboy wrote:
I've still no clue why it has to have fixed weapon options. Why not HWC/shield or HWC/suncannon? It's all in the same box. Not saying it's any good, but the lack of choice is puzzling. I picked the suncannon option since the rest of my wraith army brought enough D to not worry about armour.

I feel the same way about GWs stance on unit options being all or nothing.
Why can't we have a WG unit with mixed guns? I'd like to run 3 D-scythes and 2 WCs in the same unit

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Automatically Appended Next Post:
So to recap post CA leaks:
WK base cost is confirmed at 315ppm
Suncannon - 60ppt
No change for HWC
Shield - 30ppm
Shuricannon - no change (still 10ppm)
Scatter laser - 7ppm
Star Cannon - 13ppm

So off the bat I think we can assume 2 things:
1) Shoulder guns are a must now because Scatters are now cheap enough and Star cannons are worth their cost
2) HWC WK will continue to blow chunks with no invul and being basically the most expensive of the 3 variant

Suncannon/Shield really seems like the best option IMO as it has all the melee potential with a decent big gun

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