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 Mr Morden wrote:
Why the feth would they make plasma guns cheaper!?

Because Primaris got cheaper, so GW wants to keep the balance. As long as the main weapon taking out Primaris Marines stays cheap, regular Marines will stay "balanced" in relation.
So that must be why regular Marines got zero points change.
#GWlogic

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 lolman1c wrote:
Yeah, how come none of the standard marines got any points reduction? To the point the Chaplain and Captain are like only a few pts less that the primaris version. hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Probably because they're well on their way to becoming Legacy models.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Some decent changes for Thousand Sons. Lots of rumors were total bs as usual.

I am sort of beside myself, however, that Cultists are 5, but IS and mortars are not even touched.

duuuuuuuuuude. IG got huuuge points reductions... I mean... wow... The Ork codex looks like a nerf compared to all this!

To be fair, most of them were warranted for the stuff that got it, as many issues as people have with the book a lot of it just isnt very good. Chimeras, Armored Sentinels, Hydras, Demolishers, Deathstrikes, etc all needed some help.

The Tank Commander getting a 25pt decrease however was ah...riduculous, and I have no idea why GW felt that was necessary

Dude, I played a game the other day, the leeman russ's here just destroyed everything I had and now they got a points reduction in either base cost or weaponry.

Also suuuuuper sad tact marines didn't get a price reduction but everything in that £100 box they;re selling did. I mean come on! Primaris marines only cost a few points more now... Although i can't complain i do own like 10 XD

Also sad to see powerfists go down to 9pts... because I'm an Ork player.... But also super happy because I'm a marine player who loves putting power fists on every model he owns. XD

I really hope the Sisters points reductions are true 15 points per squad is nice

Assault Marines are at least as Legacy as Tacs, and they went down 1ppm.

My Deathwatch list has dropped by around 100pts... That's awesome

I got another 257 poitns to spend on getting my grey knights back up to 2000 points.

 Insectum7 wrote:

dahnarius wrote:
no price drop on standard tac marines makes me really sad :(

Think of it as being spread around the weapons options.

That doesn't really work out as well as you'd want it to, as that means a single squad with a Plasma Gun went down 0.4 points each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
Assault Marines are at least as Legacy as Tacs, and they went down 1ppm.

Vanguard did the same though.

 lolman1c wrote:


Dude, I played a game the other day, the leeman russ's here just destroyed everything I had and now they got a points reduction in either base cost or weaponry.

The only weapons that went down are the ones not getting used. No base for a LRBT went down aside from Tank Commander.

BUDFORCE wrote:
I got another 257 poitns to spend on getting my grey knights back up to 2000 points.

This is quite a lot. More than 12 percent.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

dahnarius wrote:
no price drop on standard tac marines makes me really sad :(

Think of it as being spread around the weapons options.

That doesn't really work out as well as you'd want it to, as that means a single squad with a Plasma Gun went down 0.4 points each.

Depends on how much you spent on your squads. It's like shopping during a sale, the more you spend the more you save!

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

dahnarius wrote:
no price drop on standard tac marines makes me really sad :(

Think of it as being spread around the weapons options.

That doesn't really work out as well as you'd want it to, as that means a single squad with a Plasma Gun went down 0.4 points each.

Depends on how much you spent on your squads. It's like shopping during a sale, the more you spend the more you save!

But no matter what you do you're still in debt.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


Dude, I played a game the other day, the leeman russ's here just destroyed everything I had and now they got a points reduction in either base cost or weaponry.

The only weapons that went down are the ones not getting used. No base for a LRBT went down aside from Tank Commander.

The ones that went down were the ones kicking my ass XD

The Codex limit of 1 special weapon / 1 heavy weapon per 5 marines really needs to go away if they want marines to be a viable troops choice.... make them able to take 2 special / 2 heavy if they're a 10 man unit, or 1/1 if 5 man, and I bet people would be more open to taking tactical squads.

Looking at various changes, a lot of it is GW writers finally getting that X weapon or piece of gear should be costed differently on different units. Great, can we now drop that really stupid, page-flippy armory system that they brought back for no reason (other than some nostalgic GW writer hating game balance and book usability, probably) and go back to 5th edition individual gear pricing? Pity it took them 3 editions to notice blatantly obvious, though...

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

dahnarius wrote:
no price drop on standard tac marines makes me really sad :(

Think of it as being spread around the weapons options.

That doesn't really work out as well as you'd want it to, as that means a single squad with a Plasma Gun went down 0.4 points each.

Depends on how much you spent on your squads. It's like shopping during a sale, the more you spend the more you save!

But no matter what you do you're still in debt.

A common older squad for me was 10, Plas, Combi-Plas and Grav-Cannon. If the new points are legit and I swap to a Plasma Cannon, I get about 10% back. Across my usual four squads is 72 points for a free Rhino. Nice!


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 Horst wrote:
The Codex limit of 1 special weapon / 1 heavy weapon per 5 marines really needs to go away if they want marines to be a viable troops choice.... make them able to take 2 special / 2 heavy if they're a 10 man unit, or 1/1 if 5 man, and I bet people would be more open to taking tactical squads.

Combi-Plas is the same cost as a normal one if these are true. Just double up using the combi and take 5 man squads. Gives you 4 specials for 10 guys.

Just repointed several of my pure CWE lists. Only gained a net 10-30pts per list. Which is great considering I have 5 Shining Spears in every list.

As an Eldar player I am happy with the changes. But as a player who likes my favorite opponent (Marines) to also have fair and balanced lists I am disappointed.

One of the core issues for Marines is the Tactical Marines were too expensive and Guard Troops were too cheap. Literally nothing changed for this issue

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 Irbis wrote:
Looking at various changes, a lot of it is GW writers finally getting that X weapon or piece of gear should be costed differently on different units. Great, can we now drop that really stupid, page-flippy armory system that they brought back for no reason (other than some nostalgic GW writer hating game balance and book usability, probably) and go back to 5th edition individual gear pricing? Pity it took them 3 editions to notice blatantly obvious, though...

?...they were already doing that.

 Galef wrote:
One of the core issues for Marines is the Tactical Marines were too expensive and Guard Troops were too cheap. Literally nothing changed for this issue

Armies fight armies, man. The individual model comparisons are a red herring.

 Insectum7 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Horst wrote:
The Codex limit of 1 special weapon / 1 heavy weapon per 5 marines really needs to go away if they want marines to be a viable troops choice.... make them able to take 2 special / 2 heavy if they're a 10 man unit, or 1/1 if 5 man, and I bet people would be more open to taking tactical squads.

Combi-Plas is the same cost as a normal one if these are true. Just double up using the combi and take 5 man squads. Gives you 4 specials for 10 guys.

Are combi-plas still only single-use? Or can you choose which profile to fire?

I will say that a big winner for me is Thunderwolf Cavalry. They're not a competitive choice but i love them. A 2 point stormshield on them is an 8 point drop per model. Makes these guys somewhat viable in a casual setting. Their offense is still garbage, and the CAVALRY keyword really prevents them from being usable competitively, but they're still cool. So, i'm excited about that.

 Horst wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Horst wrote:
The Codex limit of 1 special weapon / 1 heavy weapon per 5 marines really needs to go away if they want marines to be a viable troops choice.... make them able to take 2 special / 2 heavy if they're a 10 man unit, or 1/1 if 5 man, and I bet people would be more open to taking tactical squads.

Combi-Plas is the same cost as a normal one if these are true. Just double up using the combi and take 5 man squads. Gives you 4 specials for 10 guys.

Are combi-plas still only single-use? Or can you choose which profile to fire?

They've been multi-use for the edition. You can fire either weapon or both at the same time at a -1 to hit, too.

Katherine is confused...

Why would they reduce the Manticore by 10 points, back to it's original cost? It was that, and it was raised from that value to it's current one.

Why would they reduce the cost of Tank Commanders by such a large margin, but not the non-commander tanks? I have a hard time believing that BS3+ and the Tank Order buff is only worth 20 points.

What do we have that has a Twin Assault Cannon?

Also, why are there 2 sections of Astra Militarum units. I suspect something not-quite-right is going on here.

 Insectum7 wrote:


They've been multi-use for the edition.

Good to know, I've been out of the loop for the better part of a decade

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Katherine is confused...

Why would they reduce the Manticore by 10 points, back to it's original cost?

Why would they reduce the cost of Tank Commanders by such a large margin, but not the non-commander tanks? I have a hard time believing that BS3+ and the Tank Order buff is only worth 20 points.

What do we have that has a Twin Assault Cannon?

Marauder bomber.

 Horst wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


They've been multi-use for the edition.

Good to know, I've been out of the loop for the better part of a decade

That's good! That means your collection isn't spoiled by weird new models!

These changes are pretty wild. The Tank Commander thing doesn't make a lot of sense, Infantry Squads staying while Cultists go up (even after ToT nerfs) doesn't make a lot of sense. Every army got such massive changes that it's hard to figure out what the net effect is.

The end result is that guard are the clear winners here. They can continue to field a stupid cheap army and also bring a knight with 0 downsides. CWE also seem to have made out like bandits.

Deathwatch are also a clear winner being the best marines out there.

Necrons seem to have done well. Tyranids also have done well.

I just realized:
Space Marine Bike: 21ppm
Storm Shield: 2ppm
Plasma Gun: 13 ppm

That adds up to 36 points, although not every SM Biker can take a Storm Shield.

Shining Spears are now, what, 34ppm?

For 2ppm, you get much better shooting, +1T, a 3++ that matters *in cc*, and assorted gubbins. You lose out on weaker CC (although less than the difference in shooting) and Fly.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Also, why are there 2 sections of Astra Militarum units. I suspect something not-quite-right is going on here.

I believe one set are Codex entries, the other Forge World entries.