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OK with chaos and the tyranids running rampant in 8e do you think that factions will ally to survive and is it even possible for the various factions to ally?

The imperium obviously hates chaos, and the 'nids, and, well, everyone else. Would their desire to survive overcome 10,000 years of cultured and inculcared hatred for xenos?

The eldar think everyone else is an affont to them, and of all the races in existence theirs is the only one whose excrement is not malodorous. But Yvraine did help restore guilleman so she must have seen an advantage to the eldar in it. Now that Yvraine is the closest thing the eldar have to a leader can she offer an alliance to other races since eldar hare chaos and aren't too keen about being eaten by the 'nids?

To the Tau chaos is anathema, and again being converted into nid chow isn't on their favorite things list either. If they see a chance to fight for the greater good alongside eldar and humans, i'm sure they'd be happy to join all for the greater good. Also rumors from Armageddon suggest Orks and humans will fight together to survive attacks from daemons. At least for a while.

Orks... are Orks. If thrakka says fight alongside da oomies and da pansies (is that still the ork term for elder or did it get retconned?) fer a while, some boys may grumble, but in general it'll get done.

So in a "Ally or die!!! " situation vs chaos or 'nids, would a long term strategic level alliance between eldar, human, tau, etc be possible and would the foot soldiers be able to honor it?

I think an alliance is almost necessary as it seems no one power can stand against chaos or the 'nids. I know some will scream but so be it. Yvraine can exercise considerable influence over the eldar factions, and if guilleman sees an alliance as necessary he can push for it as the imperiumcs commander even as various factions scream about it. The tau will do as the ethereals say.

And each faction with have elements opposed to it that will throw wrenches into it.

I personally welcome it as a believable change of pace. How about you?

Tau and humans, eldar and humans, possibly. Humans and orks, pure convenience only

An alliance with the Tau ? This little pocket kingdom at the far east ? Would you ally with an ant to survive ? Me neither.

But eldars are pretty much "allied" already, I mean, they gave the Imperium Guilliman !

Eldar and the Imperium have long worked together in the shadows; heck the Imperium has even worked with the Dark Eldar on occasion. Of course such alliances are hard to form and often its the Eldar seeking to manipulate things in the shadows.

Orks are also often used as allies of convenience, but its generally going to be the case that they will turn once the other enemy is beaten. You can use orks as a short term ally, but not in any prolonged situation or complex system of counterstrikes.

The best way to use Orks is as a living wall; deflect the enemy into them and let the enemy and Orks beat each other up. Works with Chaos, but with Tyranids the risk is that if the Tyranids win they will consume orks and worlds and thus gain in strength not weaken.


That said don't forget the Imperium is VAST and has huge resources. Eldar are small; good for a niche situation but ultimately they are not a vast empire. Orks have numbers but are unreliable. Necrons just want to kill everything or are insane; Tau are nice, but far too small to really affect the main stage at this point.
The best the Imperium can do is ally with itself. Ergo overcome its own internal power struggles and bureaucratic limits - even if just for a short while - to bring its full might to bear. Such a situation could let Tau, Orks and other non-target races get away with taking more worlds so it could leave the Imperium beating back one or two powerful foes and then being left reeling from the others attacking.


Also don't forget Tyranids don't like Chaos either and it could be that the two titanic forces are going to have their own huge campaign against each other. So the Imperium might just end up the one stuck in the middle on a few worlds.

-The Eldar will Ally with whomever if it suits their needs. They may be arrogant pointy-ears but they'll try and befriend anyone if possible as long as no one touches their fancy toys or tries to access the webway. They do think of their allies only as tools to reach their goals tho.

-The Orks would fight for teef and weapons. They'd probably krump their allies as soon as the deal is done tho. An Ork would never ask another race for assistance in a fight. Why should they share the fun?

-The Imperium occasionally allies with xenos forces to overcome a greater threat. They'd never openly admit that tho because it's heresy. The emperor himself hated all xenos.

-The Tau may ally with everyone. But noone likes them. They're like the Jehovas Witnesses of 40k "May I tell you about the Greater Good?" They're also quite insignificant for the time being.

-The Necrons will do whatever the feth they want. Every Lord will have his own opinion on things. They occasionally do ally with others and are not particularly fond of chaos tho.

People tend to gak on the tau but forget they seem to be the only race technically innovating and advancing now. Technologically they seem ahead of the current imperium in a lot of ways. Pulse rifles are better than lasguns, grav vehicles are very common to the tau, they mass produce gravitic AI drones that work, etc.

If the imperium's manufacturing base could get its act in gear and start producing some versions of tau stuff their military would bet a lot stronger pretty fast.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
People tend to gak on the tau but forget they seem to be the only race technically innovating and advancing now. Technologically they seem ahead of the current imperium in a lot of ways. Pulse rifles are better than lasguns, grav vehicles are very common to the tau, they mass produce gravitic AI drones that work, etc.

If the imperium's manufacturing base could get its act in gear and start producing some versions of tau stuff their military would bet a lot stronger pretty fast.

Which is why I said "insignificant for the time being" . Sure they have some fancy stuff but their empire is tiny
At the moment they struggle with a war within while also being threatened to be eaten by tyranids. They have no legacy gear from the "good old times" like the eldar with their webway or infinite numbers like orks or imperials. All of their tech does not provide them overall superiority or even equality. They have the potential to become a major race in the galactic game but at this point of the plot they are just a minor annoyance to everyone else.

The tau background supggested they have stopped a TYRANID hifefleet invading their empire while simultaneously holding off an imperial crusade on the other side of their space. It seems thawhe tau ftl is slower that warp travel under ideal conditions once the tau engage an enemy in real space they tend to do quite well against both 'nids and imperial ships.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
The tau background supggested they have stopped a TYRANID hifefleet invading their empire while simultaneously holding off an imperial crusade on the other side of their space. It seems thawhe tau ftl is slower that warp travel under ideal conditions once the tau engage an enemy in real space they tend to do quite well against both 'nids and imperial ships.

The Tau also would be dead to Tyranids if the Imperium hadn't saved them.

Necrons are a better choice of ally.

They know how to fight galaxy spanning wars, got the technology and the abilitiy to honor pacts.
Necrons don't like warp based beings and tend to be territorial motivated.

Necrons are as unreliable as Eldar or Tau as allies when you think about long term alliances. But short term, IMHO the superior option if available.

The Imperium as a whole, anti-Xenos.

Imperial Commanders? Tend to be somewhat more pragmatic. After all, if it turns into a three way battle, why fight on two fronts if you can possibly make it one?

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
People tend to gak on the tau but forget they seem to be the only race technically innovating and advancing now. Technologically they seem ahead of the current imperium in a lot of ways. Pulse rifles are better than lasguns
.

They really aren't though.
Logistically speaking, pulse rifles are terrible. They're big, cumbersome, requires two types of ammunition (solid projectiles to make the plasma + power source), have one hell of a recoil, and can't be used effectively on the move. Tactically speaking, they are better due to their longer range and damage. But as the old adage goes, tactics wins battles, logistics wins wars. And we're talking about a war here, not some isolated battle.

grav vehicles are very common to the tau

They were also common to the imperium. Its almost as if the IoM had to go with what was logistically more viable, and that they lost a bit of their ability to produce them.

mass produce gravitic AI drones that work

So did the IoM. Its almost as if they had a skynet moment that resulted in advanced AIs being banned, to avoid the possible extinction of the human race at the hands of self-aware killbots.

Logistic ally the tau do pretty good. They have reliable, dependable interstellar travel that they can schedule without worry about warpstorm or daemon attack, they are likely advanced enough to have mobile factories that produce ammunition locally, they can keep their armies supplied and their tactical doctrines make more sense than imperial dogma.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
Logistic ally the tau do pretty good. They have reliable, dependable interstellar travel that they can schedule without worry about warpstorm or daemon attack, they are likely advanced enough to have mobile factories that produce ammunition locally, they can keep their armies supplied and their tactical doctrines make more sense than imperial dogma.

Yeah, because they only have to supply and reinforce short distances. Of course they are going to have an easier time with logistics than the IoM, which has to supply billions of soldiers across an entire galaxy.
The Fire Caste and Tau Empire is nowhere near as big as the Imperial Guard and the Imperium. You're basically comparing the UK to the US in terms of size and population. One is a small island with a population of 66 million, the other takes up half of a continent with a population of 325 million. The scale is nowhere near each other.

Imperial doctrine does make sense in context. To us it doesn't make sense, but that's because we aren't in a empire full of thousands of planets, with a total population numbering past trillions.
Losing a million guardsmen is nothing to the IoM. Its chump change. As long as they accomplish something, it doesn't matter.

As the Tau Empire's population isn't that absurdly large, they have to use tactics that preserve their soldiers' lives.


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 1hadhq wrote:
Necrons are a better choice of ally.

They know how to fight galaxy spanning wars, got the technology and the abilitiy to honor pacts.
Necrons don't like warp based beings and tend to be territorial motivated.

Necrons are as unreliable as Eldar or Tau as allies when you think about long term alliances. But short term, IMHO the superior option if available.

Only if you find a dynasty that agrees to work with you. The last thing you want is to negotiate with dynasty that things all non-necrons are filth.
Especially the cunning ones that act like they are allies, but then nuke your world into glass when you aren't looking. Not all necrons are honorable.

Anyway, the answer is obviously Chaos. Can't be destroyed by them if you are them.

I think "will backstab you later" is an irrelevant argument if the alternative is to die NOW. So that puts negotiable Necron lords on the table, and Trayzyn would do it on his own for kicks. Eldar, Tau, and Orks have previous instances of working with the Imperium so we know they will. Even given the relative size of their empire that the Tau have not been wiped out by one of the much larger factions shows that they have reasonable war ability; they are more than a mere ant because otherwise they would have already been stepped on.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think "will backstab you later" is an irrelevant argument if the alternative is to die NOW. So that puts negotiable Necron lords on the table, and Trayzyn would do it on his own for kicks. Eldar, Tau, and Orks have previous instances of working with the Imperium so we know they will. Even given the relative size of their empire that the Tau have not been wiped out by one of the much larger factions shows that they have reasonable war ability; they are more than a mere ant because otherwise they would have already been stepped on.

Yeah I could see trayzyn actually filming (Holo filming, ok?) a battle with, say, IG vs 'nids to capture the valor of even the lesser races for future edification.

Then of course the sneaky little tin woodsman would capture the survivors in a tessaract labrynth....

I like to think he did all the Fall of Cadia stuff just so he could snag Creed for his museum.