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I just think you are ignoring the idk disembarking rules. Which say you can act normally move shoot charge etc.

So if my valk lets me disembark i guess i will follow the disembark rules and then move shoot charge.

If the disembark rules didn't have the (move shoot charge) you would have a leg to stand on for an argument. But since it explicitly allows you to do things i don't see how you have an argument saying otherwise.

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:
I just think you are ignoring the idk disembarking rules. Which say you can act normally move shoot charge etc.

So if my valk lets me disembark i guess i will follow the disembark rules and then move shoot charge.

If the disembark rules didn't have the (move shoot charge) you would have a leg to stand on for an argument. But since it explicitly allows you to do things i don't see how you have an argument saying otherwise.

House it how you want but that is not the rules. You can absolutely shoot and charge, but the BRB says you already count as having moved when moving inside a transport.... No one has presented any rule here that grave chute actually overrides that

 quickfuze wrote:

House it how you want but that is not the rules. You can absolutely shoot and charge, but the BRB says you already count as having moved when moving inside a transport.... No one has presented any rule here that grave chute actually overrides that

If that's the case, then a unit can never move when it disembark since the rule say that it count as having already moved. Or it's true only in one case and not the other?

Dadavester wrote:

Again where does it say that the unit has no longer classed as moving?

It's the point when the model stops being embarked. That faq only applies to embarked units and provides no restriction on disembarked units at all. Once a unit has disembarked the faq no longer applies and the normal disembark rules kick in and you follow that.

There's also a sequential aspect to the rule, you disembark then the unit may act normally. The fact that the transport moved has no bearing on this because it happens before you are allowed to act normally.

Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked*. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked.

Units that disembark can then* act normally (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.) during the remainder of their turn.

*emphasis mine

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 quickfuze wrote:
but the BRB says you already count as having moved when moving inside a transport....

IIRC the BRB doesn't actually say that. Only the faqs say something like that.

IIRC the BRB doesn't actually say that. Only the faqs say something like that.

Which is a explanation of what the BRB means and how it applies....the FAQs are literally the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fen wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

House it how you want but that is not the rules. You can absolutely shoot and charge, but the BRB says you already count as having moved when moving inside a transport.... No one has presented any rule here that grave chute actually overrides that

If that's the case, then a unit can never move when it disembark since the rule say that it count as having already moved. Or it's true only in one case and not the other?

not true it says that they can act normally after disembarking.....by trying to move twice, you are not acting normally, you are trying to special snowflake. You all can do what you want at your FLGS but no major event TO is ever going to let you do this....have fun

Dadavester wrote:


Right, that is how it works for normal transports/disembarking before the transport moves.

But for a Valk disembarking units after it has moved how does it work? The BRB FAQ states the unit inside has moved, thus you cannot move after the disembark as you are moving the unit twice.

That is not how it works though. You are only moving the model once. You count as having moved, but once you disembark and move that is all a part of the same move.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Dadavester wrote:


Right, that is how it works for normal transports/disembarking before the transport moves.

But for a Valk disembarking units after it has moved how does it work? The BRB FAQ states the unit inside has moved, thus you cannot move after the disembark as you are moving the unit twice.

That is not how it works though. You are only moving the model once. You count as having moved, but once you disembark and move that is all a part of the same move.

Wow.....

 quickfuze wrote:

IIRC the BRB doesn't actually say that. Only the faqs say something like that.

Which is a explanation of what the BRB means and how it applies....the FAQs are literally the rules.

Can you please cite the rule you are referencing? I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Isn't the point of that FAQ entry to clarify that units that are embarked on a moving transport that allows their passengers to shoot are affected by the transports movement, eg Heavy weapons hitting at -1?

 quickfuze wrote:

not true it says that they can act normally after disembarking.....by trying to move twice, you are not acting normally, you are trying to special snowflake. You all can do what you want at your FLGS but no major event TO is ever going to let you do this....have fun

Heh I was going to say the same to you.


According to you you can't move after you disembark from anything. Under the clause of moving twice. More power to you pet us know how that holds up.


Choice A. You can move after disembarking (unless its at the end of the movement phase looking at you drop pod)

Choice B. You can't move after disembarking.

One of these choices means every person who uses transports has been playing them wrong since day 1. Hevk maybe you are right. Who knows.

 quickfuze wrote:

not true it says that they can act normally after disembarking.....by trying to move twice, you are not acting normally, you are trying to special snowflake. You all can do what you want at your FLGS but no major event TO is ever going to let you do this....have fun

I'm just trying to understand why the "count as having moved" by the transport movement is different from the "count as having moved" from the disembark rules.
If just that preclude a unit from moving, then when you disembark from a transport at the beginning of the movement phase you can't move the unit further, since it act normally, and disembarking count it "as having moved"

So in my mind with a normal transport which hasn't moved,

You disembark the model. This model can now act normally. Disembark is not a Move action, it does not use your Move characteristic, it is a seperate action that allows you to disembark the model and place it within 3 inches. You then act normally. If you decide not to Move the model that model is still classed as having moved for rules purposes.

This is backed up by the part in the disembark rule where is states that if the model doesn't move after disembarking it is classed as moving. Why would it need that if disembarking was moving? So if a model disembarks before the transport moves it is not having been classed as moving until after the entirw action is complete.

If the transport moves and then the model disembarks the model is already classed as moving, therefore it cannot be moved a second time.

There is no rule that removes the fact that the model has moved before disembarking, and the fact that the rule states 'Acts normally' means you follow all the normal rules and the unit cannot move a second time.

Dadavester, time to back up and look at the FAQ statement with a critical eye.

Why does this FAQ entry even exist?

You can't disembark from a transport that has moved (ignoring Grav-chute Insertion and other special rules for the moment).

Models in transports can't shoot per the Transport rules. Well, they can if there is some sort of special rule (Open Top, Fire Point, etc.) that allows them too. Do they count as moving in that case?

Oh, that's what this FAQ is about. And in typical GW rules writing fashion, they have failed to write a rule in an explicit manner that avoids conflating one issue with another.

 alextroy wrote:
Dadavester, time to back up and look at the FAQ statement with a critical eye.

Why does this FAQ entry even exist?

You can't disembark from a transport that has moved (ignoring Grav-chute Insertion and other special rules for the moment).

Models in transports can't shoot per the Transport rules. Well, they can if there is some sort of special rule (Open Top, Fire Point, etc.) that allows them too. Do they count as moving in that case?

Oh, that's what this FAQ is about. And in typical GW rules writing fashion, they have failed to write a rule in an explicit manner that avoids conflating one issue with another.

You cannot just ignore rules. Open topped exists and grav chute exists, both are affected by the FAQ. You are assuming one of these rules is affected and not the other with zero input from GW. You could try and argue RaI, but even that isnt clear.

You play RaW as per the BRB and FAQs and still no one can show any rules which say that this interpretation is wrong.

Several people have shown you the Transport rules that explicitly allow you to move after disembarking. It places no limitations on this. Even if your interpretation is correct, that the unit has “moved” because the transport moved, you still have permission to move after disembarking.

 alextroy wrote:
Several people have shown you the Transport rules that explicitly allow you to move after disembarking. It places no limitations on this. Even if your interpretation is correct, that the unit has “moved” because the transport moved, you still have permission to move after disembarking.

But the rules do not give you permission to move, they give you permission "to act normally (move, shoot, charge etc)." And as the unit is classed as moving it cannot move again, as that is not acting normally.

Dadavester wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Several people have shown you the Transport rules that explicitly allow you to move after disembarking. It places no limitations on this. Even if your interpretation is correct, that the unit has “moved” because the transport moved, you still have permission to move after disembarking.

But the rules do not give you permission to move, they give you permission "to act normally (move, shoot, charge etc)." And as the unit is classed as moving it cannot move again, as that is not acting normally.

The unit would also be classed as moving when it disembarks at the beggining of the movement phase from a non moving transport, it is the exact same wording and in both rules it is meant to give the “moved” status not limit further movement. Also if we are going by absolute RAW the faq you keep alluding to of units in moved transports only affects units that are in moved transports, not units that were in them and disembarked.

And if you need further evidence, check out the Emperor's Blade Assault Company detachment from Vigilus Defiant. It's Rapid Redeploy Stratagem allows you to disembark from a transport at the end of the Movement phase (aka after the transport has moved). It specifically forbids the disembarking unit from moving, which would be unnecessary if the unit had already moved.

 alextroy wrote:
And if you need further evidence, check out the Emperor's Blade Assault Company detachment from Vigilus Defiant. It's Rapid Redeploy Stratagem allows you to disembark from a transport at the end of the Movement phase (aka after the transport has moved). It specifically forbids the disembarking unit from moving, which would be unnecessary if the unit had already moved.

Actually that more supporters the other view. In that GW intention is that units may not move after disembarking from a vehicle that already moved. They just cleaned up the writing for people like you..

 quickfuze wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
And if you need further evidence, check out the Emperor's Blade Assault Company detachment from Vigilus Defiant. It's Rapid Redeploy Stratagem allows you to disembark from a transport at the end of the Movement phase (aka after the transport has moved). It specifically forbids the disembarking unit from moving, which would be unnecessary if the unit had already moved.

Actually that more supporters the other view. In that GW intention is that units may not move after disembarking from a vehicle that already moved. They just cleaned up the writing for people like you..

Not necessarily. There isn't enough consistency in GW rule wording or errata to draw that sort of inference.

 Stux wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
And if you need further evidence, check out the Emperor's Blade Assault Company detachment from Vigilus Defiant. It's Rapid Redeploy Stratagem allows you to disembark from a transport at the end of the Movement phase (aka after the transport has moved). It specifically forbids the disembarking unit from moving, which would be unnecessary if the unit had already moved.

Actually that more supporters the other view. In that GW intention is that units may not move after disembarking from a vehicle that already moved. They just cleaned up the writing for people like you..

Not necessarily. There isn't enough consistency in GW rule wording or errata to draw that sort of inference.

Yes, with Tempestus Drop Force, many are still arguing whether Scion get their doctrine if they have advisors and Auxillia list units in their Militarum Tempestus detachments.

Kaneda88 wrote:

Dadavester wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Several people have shown you the Transport rules that explicitly allow you to move after disembarking. It places no limitations on this. Even if your interpretation is correct, that the unit has “moved” because the transport moved, you still have permission to move after disembarking.

But the rules do not give you permission to move, they give you permission "to act normally (move, shoot, charge etc)." And as the unit is classed as moving it cannot move again, as that is not acting normally.

The unit would also be classed as moving when it disembarks at the beggining of the movement phase from a non moving transport, it is the exact same wording and in both rules it is meant to give the “moved” status not limit further movement. Also if we are going by absolute RAW the faq you keep alluding to of units in moved transports only affects units that are in moved transports, not units that were in them and disembarked.

But the unit has not moved, it has disembarked.

This is an entirely seperate action which gives you 3 inches with which to place units. Once your unit is placed, it then acts normally. The unit has not yet moved (it has disembarked) so can now move. This is supported by the next line of the rule which says that if the unit doesn't move after it has disembarked it is still classed as moving for rules purposes. If disembark was a move action this last bit would not be needed.

I mean. I went to a Tournament today, and moved after dismbarking, and everyone was 100% clear that wast totally okay, from the TO on down.

Maybe we're all just playing the game wrong?

I bet you advanced and fired Assault weapons too!

With how GW works they 100% would have put in an FAQ saying you couldn't move after disembark if you weren't "supposed" to.

Dadavester wrote:
But the unit has not moved, it has disembarked.

From page 183 of the main rulebook (emphasis added):

Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Your position means that they moved when they disembarked and would move twice if they moved after disembarking.

 Ghaz wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
But the unit has not moved, it has disembarked.

From page 183 of the main rulebook (emphasis added):

Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Your position means that they moved when they disembarked and would move twice if they moved after disembarking.

The rule says "even if you don’t move disembarking units further", which implies that you can move the unit further, which matches up with the rule saying units can act normally (and move) after disembarking.

 Ghaz wrote:

Dadavester wrote:
But the unit has not moved, it has disembarked.

From page 183 of the main rulebook (emphasis added):

Note though, that even if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

Your position means that they moved when they disembarked and would move twice if they moved after disembarking.

Think about that. Even if “you don’t move units further in you movement phase, they still count as having moved.” That sounds like you can move after you disembark, but if you decide not to, it still counts when the movement phase is over for the next phases, ie shooting heavy weapons.

Note though, if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

That is what the rule would have to say for the disembarking not to count as the unit's movement. As written in the rulebook it doesn't care if you move after disembarking or not, it would still be the unit's move under the argument being given meaning the unit would be making two moves if they disembarked and then moved.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I bet you advanced and fired Assault weapons too!

With how GW works they 100% would have put in an FAQ saying you couldn't move after disembark if you weren't "supposed" to.

I didn't, but I let my opponents wave serpant do that because I'm a Nice Guy [TM]

 Ghaz wrote:

Note though, if you don’t move disembarking units further in your Movement phase, they still count as having moved for any rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180).

That is what the rule would have to say for the disembarking not to count as the unit's movement. As written in the rulebook it doesn't care if you move after disembarking or not, it would still be the unit's move under the argument being given meaning the unit would be making two moves if they disembarked and then moved.

I wonder why it says "move further" if it can't move according to your logic.

The point of that rule is to have units that disembarked, but chose not to move further, still count as "having moved" later on - eg shooting heavy weapons. That's it.

Now, sure, you can play it as if that wasn't the reason and probably have a good case on it not being allowed at all. But that's about as reasonable as the Pistol or Assault weapons don't work-thing. Or the old act of faith for movement not allowing two moves in the movement phase. Technically maybe correct, but clearly still wrong on any other level.