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Amishprn86 wrote:And you can also improve the range by 3"
Not...really. Sure, you can improve the Canonesses range by 3"...doesn't help you much when you have to stay within 6 of Celestine anyway.
Drider wrote: Yeah, i'm questioning this as well. I mean does the relic affect the warlord trait? Or is it just things listed in the "abilities" section of the datasheet?
It says "the range of the bearer's auras"
BRB Aura says "have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect"
So it will work on anything that says out to a certain range, even if that bearer has multiple auras it will work.
Edit: The quote broke, edit to fix it.
The exact wording is on the relic is "Increase the range of the bearer’s aura abilities by 3"."
The BRB reference you made says that models with aura abilities are within range of themselves, so isn't really relevant.
It probably does work like that, but it's not iron clad and you'll probably come up against someone who will argue that it doesn't.
The Vessels question is a good one. It would be nice if it dose but i'm not getting my hopes up.
Am I the only one who's saddened by the battering of the ecclesiarchy units? Priests and missionaries have no options so my plasma toting and power maul guys will have to be from the index/guard codex. Also the missionary model comes with an autogun he cant equip.
I also seriously dislike the battle conclave rule and it prevents me filling out a detachment with ecclesiarchy units. Im not trying to abuse it for CPs, rather I actually like playing a "holy crusade of nutters" than majority sisters. I realise I might be in the minority but if anyone else is sending feedback could they think about this too. Id be happy if a detachment with ecclesiarchy only units didnt yield any cp. But preventing me ftom using them is a pain. Oh also the one missionary per detachment is a shame.
Frowbakk wrote: OK... Let's do this, Brutus, we ain't new to this!
13 Immolators.
Hmm I might be crazy but I got suddenly wish I could try that one with my orks. Looks terrifying. 13 horde burning vehicles sounds like my orks could be facing rough time. Even loota star wouldn\t take even half of those before running out of CP.
Albeit knights etc would likely have jolly good time vs that. But heavy infantry army like my orks might have headache provided you don't just camp inside transports with your infantry.
Really you would want to give all these tanks a 4++ with Celeste. Can a Geminae be a warlord? It would be nice to have a warlord that can keep up with the tanks
Really you would want to give all these tanks a 4++ with Celeste. Can a Geminae be a warlord? It would be nice to have a warlord that can keep up with the tanks
The Geminae Superia's Divine Guardians ability prevents them from having a Warlord Trait.
Bobug wrote: Am I the only one who's saddened by the battering of the ecclesiarchy units? Priests and missionaries have no options so my plasma toting and power maul guys will have to be from the index/guard codex. Also the missionary model comes with an autogun he cant equip.
I also seriously dislike the battle conclave rule and it prevents me filling out a detachment with ecclesiarchy units. Im not trying to abuse it for CPs, rather I actually like playing a "holy crusade of nutters" than majority sisters. I realise I might be in the minority but if anyone else is sending feedback could they think about this too. Id be happy if a detachment with ecclesiarchy only units didnt yield any cp. But preventing me ftom using them is a pain. Oh also the one missionary per detachment is a shame.
1. There's nothing that indicates Missionaries and Preachers replace the Ministorum Priest in the codex. It does, however, specifically state that Imagifiers have been removed as a unit.
2. The codex likewise has a designer's note requesting anyone using Crusaders in Guard detachments to use the beta Codex version, including Acts of Faith, to get as much feedback as possible on that rule.
3. There's nothing stating that the Missionary and Preacher replace or are added to any entries in the Guard codex.
4. The standard eviscerator is no longer part of our armory, however the Index vs Codex flow chart means we can still give a Canoness an eviscerator... at 12 points instead of 11 like other armies since we have to use the index rules.
With these four points in mind, I lead you to the "index vs codex" flowchart and the following possibilities:
a. Preachers and Missionaries replace Priests for Sisters but not for Guard. If so, they would still have access to Index equipment at Index costs
b. All three are separate units. Preachers and Missionaries get no equipment, Ministorum Priests do BUT Ministorum Priests don't have the Word of the Emperor ability since it's not part of their datasheet.
Also, there's a designer's note on page 94 that states, for matched play, if you don't have any Ministorum Priests in the detachment, then the detachment can only have 1 Ecchlesiarchy Battle Conclave unit.
Really you would want to give all these tanks a 4++ with Celeste. Can a Geminae be a warlord? It would be nice to have a warlord that can keep up with the tanks
Geminae data sheet prohibits them from having a warlord trait. Page 99 specifically states they can't be given relics. Besides which, why would you want them to be your Warlord? They're T3, 2W.. Even if they could be given the Warlord trait for 5+ shield of faith, I'm not relying on a 3++ that requires me to be within 6" of another character to keep my Warlord alive. If they could be given the Valorous Heart conviction for a 6+ FNP (because BRB warlord trait for 6+ FNP would drop them to 4++) I'd might consider it, and even then it'd be highly unlikely.
Hate to say it, but my warlord is a Canoness until further notice. I.E. we get a better option and/or Celestine isn't shoehorned into "Faith Point on a 4+" for a Warlord trait.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/17 03:46:12
Does it actually say somewhere in CA 2018 that 2017's CA is removed for all purposes of rules? (Ive read it and i ddnt see it state this, tho i might have just over looked it)
B.c if not we still use any of those point changes that didnt make it into 2018, no?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/17 03:47:36
Amishprn86 wrote: Does it actually say somewhere in CA 2018 that 2017's CA is removed for all purposes of rules? (Ive read it and i ddnt see it state this, tho i might have just over looked it)
B.c if not we still use any of those point changes that didnt make it into 2018, no?
If you're playing somewhere where you can't just ask your bro to let you mix and match rules because the beta codex is stupid, just use the unmodified index rules. They're significantly better, especially for ministorum stuff.
There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
Sisters could have Terminator armor and still be crap with the non-existent offensive capability they have. Please refrain from opining on this thread if you have no basis for your argument other than another threads’ opinions.
Amishprn86 wrote: Does it actually say somewhere in CA 2018 that 2017's CA is removed for all purposes of rules? (Ive read it and i ddnt see it state this, tho i might have just over looked it)
B.c if not we still use any of those point changes that didnt make it into 2018, no?
If you're playing somewhere where you can't just ask your bro to let you mix and match rules because the beta codex is stupid, just use the unmodified index rules. They're significantly better, especially for ministorum stuff.
That wasnt the question, i can play how i want without problems.
Again, did CA 2018 say to ignore 2017 entirely? (remember we are testing out the beta dex, i want to know the actual rules and use them as GW has intended not "How i want")
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
S3, T3 is also a huge difference. But there are already players talking about Melee sisters due to +1S and Atk on Celestian Squads
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/17 05:24:30
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
Sisters WERE a powerful army. The new beta codex nerfed us from 'surprisingly good considering we're an index force' to 'better go pull my Grey Knights out of storage I guess :('.
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
Sisters WERE a powerful army. The new beta codex nerfed us from 'surprisingly good considering we're an index force' to 'better go pull my Grey Knights out of storage I guess :('.
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
There is a 17 page thread that has one page complaining about power armor, and 16 pages complaining about T4 being worse than T3, and that plasma is more effective against marines than guard.
Aka standard "Marines aren't mary sue's on the tabletop" thread #34,578
As you were told in the other thread, sister's main issues aren't their power armor. It's their S3/T3, and the fact that using their army rule suddenly became a game of chance. And they lost their ability to actually hurt things. Or move quickly.
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
There is a 17 page thread that has one page complaining about power armor, and 16 pages complaining about T4 being worse than T3, and that plasma is more effective against marines than guard.
Aka standard "Marines aren't mary sue's on the tabletop" thread #34,578
As you were told in the other thread, sister's main issues aren't their power armor. It's their S3/T3, and the fact that using their army rule suddenly became a game of chance. And they lost their ability to actually hurt things. Or move quickly.
I only realized it during that thread but, we literally did end up trading everything good and fun about the army for a shot at a 4++ invul. That's a really bad trade and I wish they hadn't of done that.
Playing Horde sisters sucks not just because any horde lists is obnoxious bullcrap to play against(no, I don't mind at all that your first movement phase took 25 minutes) but because sisters horde lists aren't very good. Once you get sisters in combat with something that can survive the OoBR turn, the whole blob just comes to a standstill. You could destroy that entire list with 2 rhinos. It's not like they have enough long range firepower to get you off of objectives even if their bubblewrapping was perfect.
Eldenfirefly wrote: There is some kind of weird expectations mismatch going around if you ask me. There is a 17 page thread on people crying about power armor. And yet, sisters of battle have troops which are just 9 points a model in power armor. You would have thought that's great. But I see so much gloom and doom on this thread after the beta codex came out. So, models in power armor at 9 points hardly seems to solve any problems. Yet, when I brought this up on that power armor thread. People there seem to think that that sisters are a powerful army...
I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side...
There is a 17 page thread that has one page complaining about power armor, and 16 pages complaining about T4 being worse than T3, and that plasma is more effective against marines than guard.
Aka standard "Marines aren't mary sue's on the tabletop" thread #34,578
As you were told in the other thread, sister's main issues aren't their power armor. It's their S3/T3, and the fact that using their army rule suddenly became a game of chance. And they lost their ability to actually hurt things. Or move quickly.
I only realized it during that thread but, we literally did end up trading everything good and fun about the army for a shot at a 4++ invul. That's a really bad trade and I wish they hadn't of done that.
Playing Horde sisters sucks not just because any horde lists is obnoxious bullcrap to play against(no, I don't mind at all that your first movement phase took 25 minutes) but because sisters horde lists aren't very good. Once you get sisters in combat with something that can survive the OoBR turn, the whole blob just comes to a standstill. You could destroy that entire list with 2 rhinos. It's not like they have enough long range firepower to get you off of objectives even if their bubblewrapping was perfect.
My “feedback” to GW (40kfaq@gwplc.com) regarding the beta crapdex-
I’ve been playing Sisters since 2nd, so I’m devout for Sisters.
This beta Codex took away all our competitive edge (Celestine and Seraphim double moves and Retributors double shooting) and gave us the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE doing something a lot weaker.
Please do something different than this weak wanna-be Codex.
I’ve played Sisters a long time and have been hopeful, but I’m almost to the point of giving totally up on them and never buying another Sisters model again.
Read all the competitive Sisters blogs and you’ll see how disappointed Sisters players are across the board.
I’m glad you’re listening to us this time, but obviously Sisters are too difficult to write good solid rules for.
davidgr33n wrote: My “feedback” to GW (40kfaq@gwplc.com) regarding the beta crapdex-
I’ve been playing Sisters since 2nd, so I’m devout for Sisters.
This beta Codex took away all our competitive edge (Celestine and Seraphim double moves and Retributors double shooting) and gave us the POSSIBILITY of MAYBE doing something a lot weaker.
Please do something different than this weak wanna-be Codex.
I’ve played Sisters a long time and have been hopeful, but I’m almost to the point of giving totally up on them and never buying another Sisters model again.
Read all the competitive Sisters blogs and you’ll see how disappointed Sisters players are across the board.
I’m glad you’re listening to us this time, but obviously Sisters are too difficult to write good solid rules for.
My feedback was 3200 words long and only covered Celestine and Acts of Faith. And not in anywhere near the depth I wanted to. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the book is a russian nesting doll of badness. The more I thought about it, the more problems I found.
Celestine in the current story line is supposed to be this bad ass bitch that is amazing, the game Celestine is barely better than an Adeptus Astartes captain with jump pack.
davidgr33n wrote: Celestine in the current story line is supposed to be this bad ass bitch that is amazing, the game Celestine is barely better than an Adeptus Astartes captain with jump pack.
sadly when you get to run an Imperial demon princess who likes to kill chaos demon princes people complain that she is too powerful, which is sadly why we do not get to have nice things.... the lack of useful HQ alternatives doesn't help either
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
davidgr33n wrote: Celestine in the current story line is supposed to be this bad ass bitch that is amazing, the game Celestine is barely better than an Adeptus Astartes captain with jump pack.
Yep, that was part of my feedback. Compare her to a Custodes Jetbike captain(who is the same price she is) with the 3++ bike and an actually usable warlord trait for extra sadnesses.
1. There's nothing that indicates Missionaries and Preachers replace the Ministorum Priest in the codex. It does, however, specifically state that Imagifiers have been removed as a unit.
2. The codex likewise has a designer's note requesting anyone using Crusaders in Guard detachments to use the beta Codex version, including Acts of Faith, to get as much feedback as possible on that rule.
3. There's nothing stating that the Missionary and Preacher replace or are added to any entries in the Guard codex.
4. The standard eviscerator is no longer part of our armory, however the Index vs Codex flow chart means we can still give a Canoness an eviscerator... at 12 points instead of 11 like other armies since we have to use the index rules.
With these four points in mind, I lead you to the "index vs codex" flowchart and the following possibilities:
a. Preachers and Missionaries replace Priests for Sisters but not for Guard. If so, they would still have access to Index equipment at Index costs
b. All three are separate units. Preachers and Missionaries get no equipment, Ministorum Priests do BUT Ministorum Priests don't have the Word of the Emperor ability since it's not part of their datasheet.
Also, there's a designer's note on page 94 that states, for matched play, if you don't have any Ministorum Priests in the detachment, then the detachment can only have 1 Ecchlesiarchy Battle Conclave unit.
.
Im not sure you read my post properly. Im aware of the index flowchart and guard codex priests, thats why I said I said I'd have to use them. I am also aware of the crusaders change etc. Not sure why you brought that up.
Im also entirely aware of the conclave rules. My issue with them is that I cannot fill out an ecclesiarchy detachment (which would be vanguard) due to them not counting as a slot. The only way to fiĺl pure ecclesiarchy detachments would be field 3 priests per detachment or take min 3 lone penitent engines to fill a spearhead. I'll do this and also will be using guard and index wargear priests but I'm having to "game the system" to do this. I'm saying there's no need for such complexity.
What I would propose is:
1. Access to wargear for preachers amd missionaries: Access to an autogun or choose 1 from special weapons, access to melee weapons list in exchange for chainsword. Access to autopistol in exchange for laspistol (technically unneeded i know as rules are the same 99.99% of the time)
Also the official GW model for the missionary carries an autogun.
2: keep "1 conclave unit if no priests" rule, but either remove the battle conclave rule, make it "can choose to not fill a slot" or "does not fill a slot if the detachment's minimum requirements have been filled"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/17 08:17:38
Anyone else ALREADY tired of the backseat Generals? Most of these mouth breathers probably couldn't name 2 Sisters of Battle units before CA dropped and now they're experts on an army I've been playing for 3 editions now.
Playing them since codex witch hunters and kinda amused by the "but I tell you they will destroy everything in their way, trust me I play a completely different army" stuff going on sometimes.
But it's just a normal day on the internet (and at least it keeps us on our toes and force us to think things through... maybe not the 5th time though )
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/17 14:53:02
ERJAK wrote: Sisters WERE a powerful army. The new beta codex nerfed us from 'surprisingly good considering we're an index force' to 'better go pull my Grey Knights out of storage I guess :('.
Okay, I just tried to catch up on the three pages of this thread I missed.
I'm loving the new lists and actual discussion of the tactics, which is what this thread is for.
Can we take whining like Erjak's above (sorry, Erjak, but you just are the one I landed on) into some other thread? We get it, you guys are not happy with CA. We'll take it as read at this point.
Let's move on and talk about how to make it work.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I plan on trying to get some time out of work today to work up some lists and see what I can come up with.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/17 15:04:33
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Just my two cents, and I guess its my problem with 40k as a whole. This is no longer a wargame where some semblance of battle tactics matter; its simply a game where you look for the best combos.
I could deal with this if the list building at least supported my head-canon of a believable fighting force. But no, as it is, to get the right combos I must mix orders; I must add in non-sisters units (priests, etc).
As the fluff indicates, they should be a self-contained fighting force. I cant even do that without setting myself up for failure.
Eh, not even sure what the point of my post is. Just disappointed. I have four historical armies, an Infinity sectorial and am painting up a fantasy army for KoW. And my sisters are the prettiest, neatest army I have. I just wish I could play an actual wargame with them.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
)