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It isn't the assault part of it that is worrysome. It's that I can move my entire army 12" in the assault phase without penalty for 3 CP. If anyone's stupid enough to be near them, then they get hit, but mostly it doubles or triples the movement of most of your force for 3CP.
To be fair though, Sisters are pretty bad at doing anything other than being physically present post-CA2018.
PuppetSoul wrote: There's no way they didn't realize this was an option during playtesting,
Betcha an imaginary nickel that it gets FAQ'd if people actually start using it.
I'll betcha a real nickel that it absolutely gets FAQ'd if people start using it and a BILLION dollars that they missed that and A LOT of other things in playtesting.
GW don't design stuff like that, ever. They're just loosey-goosey with their language because they couldn't imagine anyone ever doing something that rules lawyer-y. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unit1126PLL wrote: Interested in hearing especially how Foot Horde sisters is competitive, and why? I've been keeping up with the thread, but I didn't read it super seriously...
is it really just the 4++ blob on tons of girlies?
It's the same reason any horde is competitive. Most armies aren't designed to shed that many models, games don't usually finish, the current meta is built around knights.
Horde sisters just as strong as it was before, trading most of its mobility for extra defence against AP-2 weapons, and most of its CP for +1 to hit with bolters. It seems stronger than it is because of how much the other strategies sisters have got nerfed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/17 23:46:07
Amishprn86 wrote: Its not going to be as strong as shooting, so i dont see it getting faq, we already talked about this, players are already talking about Celestian squads in Bloody Rose rushing into melee with fire support from Serahpim and Doms.
It isn't the assault part of it that is worrysome. It's that I can move my entire army 12" in the assault phase without penalty for 3 CP. If anyone's stupid enough to be near them, then they get hit, but mostly it doubles or triples the movement of most of your force for 3CP.
Are you trying to say you get a pile in and consolidate without being in melee? B.c that has already been faq saying you cant unless you started with in 1" of an enemy b.c ... Nids and CWE could already do that.
Purifying Tempest wrote: You guys have seriously gone off the deep end in your quests to be the uberzbest! GL rules-lawyering that in a game, and gl getting a follow-up game from that person when it happens.
Seriously, stuff like that makes it so hard for GW to make interesting rules... frothing hordes of munchkins trying their darnedest to win regardless the cost or interaction, forcing them to constantly issue erratas because common sense and social contract left the building years ago.
I played the codex, brought about 85 sisters, and rides for just over 20 of them. I had a great time, we had a great fight, and my opponent didn't feel steamrolled by crummy rules that made the army powerful, but was about as fun of an interaction as tides of 'zerkers running over armies turn 1 in the early days of 8th.
The codex played sisters-y, the power can be fixed. I'm honestly glad that the power level of the codex is more down the middle, maybe a little lower if you honestly want to hammer it hard, but gives a good feel of playing Sisters of Battle when on the table. That's my opinion on all of this bickering and fussing, so... feel free to reject it and move on. But this whole mentality is getting irritating to hear all the time.
Seriously... Grey Knights better than Sisters? I honestly lol'd until I realized he was likely serious.
The Grey Knights thing was a joke, they still suck worse. It's just so incredibly unpleasant the way the army plays if you want to keep to the same level of strength we had in the index, that even though Grey Knights are weaker than Sisters in the Beta dex, they seem like they're a better overall play experience. For me, being stuck doing Infantry blobs just to stay relevant is my own personal nightmare situation.
I've always loved sisters of battle as an 'in your face, do or die' shotgun style army; martyring themselves valiantly slaying the unclean for the glory of the emperor. Not 100 25mm bases in my backfield slogging their way up and hoping my opponent is kitted out to kill knights. Being stuck with...this is exactly my worst fear and has been since the beta codex was announced.
Amishprn86 wrote: Its not going to be as strong as shooting, so i dont see it getting faq, we already talked about this, players are already talking about Celestian squads in Bloody Rose rushing into melee with fire support from Serahpim and Doms.
It isn't the assault part of it that is worrysome. It's that I can move my entire army 12" in the assault phase without penalty for 3 CP. If anyone's stupid enough to be near them, then they get hit, but mostly it doubles or triples the movement of most of your force for 3CP.
Are you trying to say you get a pile in and consolidate without being in melee? B.c that has already been faq saying you cant unless you started with in 1" of an enemy b.c ... Nids and CWE could already do that.
Otherwise how are you moving 12"?
I'd be interested to see the FAQ for that.
Found it. It answers a way different question. The crux of this argument is that it allows you to choose a unit to fight that normally couldn't be chosen to fight. See the last line of the Tyranids answer. It says you can't choose them because they aren't within 1", the Passion overrides that.
Q: When a unit is chosen to make a charge move and fails the
charge, do they still count as having charged? Specifically, can
a unit that has failed a charge move be chosen to pile in – and
potentially consolidate – towards the enemy?
A: A unit only counts as having charged if they made a
charge move. If a charge fails, and no models make a
charge move, they do not count as having charged. As
such, they cannot be chosen to fight in the Fight phase
(and so cannot pile in or consolidate) unless an enemy
unit moves within 1" of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 00:16:17
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Edit: How are you overriding it? It says you can fight twice, you dont ignore other rules for fight phase and faqs.
You still must be a legal target via brb
"Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase."
You dont have a unit within 1" so you cant be chosen to fight.
To Add: The Passion only says you can Choose the unit to fight twice, that means when it is tiggered to fight, you can trigger it twice, but also dont forget other rules and faqs saying when you are chosen to fight a 2nd time they go back into the order of fighting, so if you didnt charge, you pick them, then your opponent picks, then you pick them again.
Edit: Added and spelling, sorry for edit.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/12/18 00:34:22
I tend to agree with Amishprn86, the AoF says "can be chosen to fight twice", so unless I'm missing something, the units would need to be a valid choice to fight with in the first place.
Edit : Unless you guys are considering "can be chosen" means "you're allowed to chose them even if you couldn't". Which I doubt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 00:58:32
Here is how I understand it, after wrapping my hear around the rules.
Let's begin with Blood for the blood god: This unit can fight twice in each Fight phase, instead of only once.
Now you have to ask: How do you fight? How do I get this rule working?
The BRB explains that to fight you have to chose a unit and places restrictions on how you chose by indicating they have to have charged or be within 1 inch of an enemy unit.
The codex appears to over rule those restrictions by simply telling you, chose the unit you want to fight in. It does not require that you refer to the rulebook to understand how the rule works. Once the unit has been chosen, and the codex gives you the right to chose them, you move on to the next step in the fight phase sequence.
This is either a clever use of the rules or they did not understand what they were printing.
The Penitent engine rule is akind to the Berserker rule. It does not mention that you are chosing it and hence have to refer to the full sequence of the fight phase.
If someone is able to better explain this than I am, I would definitely appreciate it.. RAW this seems to be how it works right now, however getting your opponent to understand and agree could be challenging.
The rule says "selected unit can be chosen to fight with twice in that phase"
You still MUST follow the rules for being chosen to fight.
IDK how players are getting around this, there is no "Ignore the fight phase rules and just swing", but there are rules like that, yes, if you are not familiar, some rules and stratagems allow you to swing outside of the fight phase and are not treated as fight phase, but a free attack, and those say so.
RAW when you chose to fight, you are allowed to chose them a second time.
It literally says "in that phase" and is used "start of the fight phase"......
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/18 01:59:41
Codex VS BRB argument presents itself. Maybe this will be clearer.
The BRB indicates that to chose a unit to fight with, it has to have charged or be within an inch of an enemy.
The codex indicates to chose a unit you only need to succeed at the Act of Faith.
You're overriding the BRB restrictions with this new one essentially.
once again, this is how I seem to understand and come to those conclusion. I would love to hear back from the people who originally came up with this strategy and how they got to it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 02:13:21
Voldrak wrote: Codex VS BRB argument presents itself. Maybe this will be clearer.
The BRB indicates that to chose a unit to fight with, it has to have charged or be within an inch of an enemy.
The codex indicates to chose a unit you only need to succeed at the Act of Faith.
You're overriding the BRB restrictions with this new one essentially.
once again, this is how I seem to understand and come to those conclusion. I would love to hear back from the people who originally came up with this strategy and how they got to it.
Its saying when you chose you may chose it twice. Nothing more, its not saying chose out of order, its not saying force to fight right now, its not saying anything other than you may chose them twice instead of once.
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To chose a unit normally you have to be within 1 inch or have charged. If you do not meet those requirements, the unit cannot normally be chosen.
This act of faith is telling you that if you pass the roll, you can chose a unit and fight twice. It does not ask that you verify if the unit can be chosen in the first place, it just say you can chose a unit and fight with it twice. If your unit has been chosen, then you would move to step 2 of the phase.
Good idea Pretre.
Much easier discussing this at large and seeing what everyone else makes of it.
Cheers
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 02:29:07
"Any unit that charged or has models within 1" of an
enemy unit can be chosen to fight in the Fight phase."
You dont have a unit within 1" so you cant be chosen to fight.
I'm gonna help you out.
Here's the wording of The Passion:
"Use this Act of Faith at the start of your Fight phase. If successful, the selected unit CAN BE CHOSEN TO FIGHT WITH TWICE in that phase."
Do you see the part in caps? That specifically says that you can choose to fight with it twice. Can it be chosen to fight with the first time? Do you see the part where it says explicitly that the selected unit can be chosen to fight with two times? "But the BRB says it can't be chosen the first time!" And it also says you can only choose a unit to fight a single time in the same paragraph. Specific trumps General though, so both of those rules are explicitly superseded by The Passion saying you can do it twice.
If they did not intend for it to work this way, they would have left the targeting restriction that was on The Passion from the Index in place, which required the targeted unit to be within 1" of an enemy unit to use.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/18 04:49:37
[quote=Voldrak 768006 10274739 null]Played first game, using the Bloody Rose conviction, this weekend using ITC scoring rules which I was not very familiar with.
I would not have won on the objectives, but that was mostly due my lack of experience with this ruleset.
I went for a fairly solid brick wall of tanks. 3 detachments, lots of bodies. 5 immolators and 1 repressor carrying 10 repentias and mistress. I had 10 CPs and 8 FPs. By the end of turn 3 I was out of CPs and had 3 FPs left.
Deployment was hammer and anvil and that helped me since everything got funneled center of the board.
I played against a Tzentch daemon list that was heavy on mortal wound spam.
Things that did not work so well for me:
Tanks getting caught in assault by a horde of daemons. I lost two and could not exit the occupants. That was a bad play on my part and cost me a lot.
Failing my devotion on my "smithe lightning rod". I was hoping to have a unit take smithes and shrug them off on a 4+, but failed that roll twice. I would have had a dialogus nearby normally, but lost her when one of the tank was blown up and she couldnt get out. That unit died much faster than I hoped and failed to protect critical elements of my army.
Things that did go well:
Canoness managed her devotion on the passion when she was in the center of the table. I used the vessel stratagem and passed that AOF to 2 squads of sisters, a squad of seraphim, another canoness and my 9 repentia squad. Jacobus being right beside her, giving out his +1 atk aura, made this combo even more devastating.
The repentias alone killed a daemon prince, 3 screamers and close to 10 pink horrors.
Celestine is not a beat stick anymore, I used her as a support character and she did well in that respect. She's a scalpel and should be used with precision.
I moved my tanks together at first, supported by Celestine and my warlord canoness and was able to confer everyone close to them a 4++ save due to SOF.
Review on AoF that I was able to use:
Hand of the emperor: Allowed my Canoness at first to keep up with my tanks so she could keep her invuln buff aura on them. Did what I expected it to.
Aegis of the Emperor: I think I had the strategy down for using this one, but failed my 3+ roll both times I tried to use it. The squad dedicated to this should have a dialogus, but at 30pts for the model, its debatable on whether its worth it or not.
Divine Guidance: Used on a dominion squad, but had no interesting targets. Very underwhelming result since I did not roll any 2s the time I used it.
The Passion: Used on a canoness and lucked out with a 6. She then combo'ed this to half my army that happened to be within range of her aura. Utterly devasting counter charge and cost my opponent a lot. It just needs to be more reliable. Had I failed that roll, I would likely have lost a big part of my army or been tied into protracted combat.
Stratagems:
Burning Descent: Used on the 5 seraphim with inferno pistols to kill some brimstone horrors and remove them from an objective. Worked well. Hand Flamers are not great, but if you need to remove a unit from an objective, Seraphims can do it. They need to adjust the stratagems so that it works with Inferno Pistols as well, but as it stands, this is now part of my toolbox. I will most likely be going for 10 seraphims as 5 was underwhelming.
Vessel of the Emperor: Very good stratagems and why my next list will likely be foot heavy. Used to great effect with the passion and I want to build CP heavy lists now to see if this one can be used at least 3 times.
Final Redemption: Used it, but my repentias killed everything they touched on the turn they charged. They did not get a chance to die in melee. Ill be using it on a turn where they did not charge next time.
Purity of Faith: Used twice. Worked once, failed the other. Does exactly what it says and going to be used regularly against Psychic heavy armies.
Overall liked how the army played, but did not like the list I built. I went by what I know and was comfortable with and I suspect the sister meta is going to have to adapt to make the best use of these AoF.
Big squads are going to be a must now and with all the ways we have to mitigate morale, its not going to be that crippling to lose a few sisters.
Voldrak, Did you try using Faith and Fury with Divine Guidance?
Seems like adding Re-roll 1's to Wound with the +1 to Hit on shooting attacks could be pretty good for increasing damage potential on units. Whether you are making sure those Meltaguns hit and wound, increasing the effectiveness of a big squad's bolter, or really getting the best out of Blessed Bolts, sounds like a solid improvements to just the +1 to Hit alone.
Let me float out a few unit composition ideas that have been floating around my head on my commute...
10x Dominions with 5x Stormbolters on foot looking to maximize Blessed Bolts. They deploy opposite a desirable midfield objective, use their Vanguard to go get it and camp it, and when forced to fall back are backed by a Penitent or some Repentia set up to countercharge.
6x Retributers with 4x Heavy Flamers, Combi-melta, and boltgun, probably riding in a Rhino that pops smoke Turn 1, and maybe with a tagalong character or two, and set up for Holy Trinity as mentioned somewhere above.
10x Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers looking to capitalize on Burning Descent.
Dare I say it... Celestians? 55 points of meat shield to keep your auras alive against sniper fire. In a Brigade, it might be a reasonable way to fill a slot, and with a nearby Preacher, a Canoness with BoA relic, the Passion and FP burning a hole in your pocket, maybe someone would think twice about charging them.
Any of those worth a recurring spot in the build as we get the first few games in?
MacPhail wrote: Let me float out a few unit composition ideas that have been floating around my head on my commute...
10x Dominions with 5x Stormbolters on foot looking to maximize Blessed Bolts. They deploy opposite a desirable midfield objective, use their Vanguard to go get it and camp it, and when forced to fall back are backed by a Penitent or some Repentia set up to countercharge.
6x Retributers with 4x Heavy Flamers, Combi-melta, and boltgun, probably riding in a Rhino that pops smoke Turn 1, and maybe with a tagalong character or two, and set up for Holy Trinity as mentioned somewhere above.
10x Seraphim with 2x2 Hand Flamers looking to capitalize on Burning Descent.
Dare I say it... Celestians? 55 points of meat shield to keep your auras alive against sniper fire. In a Brigade, it might be a reasonable way to fill a slot, and with a nearby Preacher, a Canoness with BoA relic, the Passion and FP burning a hole in your pocket, maybe someone would think twice about charging them.
Any of those worth a recurring spot in the build as we get the first few games in?
I think Celestians has potential for sure, 2 more points than BSS but gains 1 more attack, run 1 unit like you would with BSS, but give the Seperior a melee weapon, along side the Canoness with the Relic sword, a preacher, and Dialgous in a Rhino, this could be in a vanguard detachment of Bloody Rose, on the charge they will do some good damage with The Passion, attacking twice with 21 S4 attacks 5 that are power weapons, re-rolling 1's to hit and the Canoness with 5 S6 -3ap 3D, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1's. After the Celestians are now extra wounds, its the Jack of All unit. Its 169 points + the Rhino, not very costly honestly. But at the same time to costly (Due to Rhino)
The more I think about it, the more I feel like the army rule of 6++ and deny on 1d6 is extremely lackluster.
The problem is, it is kinda fluffy. Because they hate psykers and every sister is trained to resist them and because they are so fanaticly devotet, sometimes the their devotion protects them from harm.
6++:
6++ is practicly useless for a 3+ model. Only ap -4 weapons make any difference. It is only ok, if you specificly build for it and castle up. And that's a boring thing to do.
Now a 5++ may be too strong, I'm not sure. Mathematicly I don't think it would be, if you keep it at a possible 4++ if you build for it or 3++ once per game. But it would surely be perceived too strong. So what else? 6+++? That wouldn't be fluffy at all.
For each 5 Sister in a unit you increase your invuln by +1. So a 6++ for 5 sisters. 5++ for 10 Sisters and a 4++ for 15 sisters. Like a "devotion reinforcement bubble".
deny 1d6:
Against Smite it has a ~1.9% chance to make an impact. So every 50 psychic power you may get lucky. Not fun at all. But then you have a relic that makes it really good, because it bumps it to 2d6 and then you can splash it to other units.
The ability is only there if you take the relic. Bad design.
Keep the 1d6 but add +1 to the deny roll for every Imagifier in the unit? So you'd have a ~5% chance to deny Smite. Not really worth it too... I'm not sure how to handle that without making it too strong or too complicated.
Amishprn86 wrote: I think Celestians has potential for sure, 2 more points than BSS but gains 1 more attack, run 1 unit like you would with BSS, but give the Seperior a melee weapon, along side the Canoness with the Relic sword, a preacher, and Dialgous in a Rhino, this could be in a vanguard detachment of Bloody Rose, on the charge they will do some good damage with The Passion, attacking twice with 21 S4 attacks 5 that are power weapons, re-rolling 1's to hit and the Canoness with 5 S6 -3ap 3D, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1's. After the Celestians are now extra wounds, its the Jack of All unit. Its 169 points + the Rhino, not very costly honestly. But at the same time to costly (Due to Rhino)
The mounted melee-star hadn't occurred to me, and might be pretty solid as Sisters go. I had imagined them walking (likely jogging with regular Advances) so that the Canoness and Celestine could keep their auras centered over the second wave of transports in a mech list. Once something comes out to meet the Vanguard Doms, they could still be in range of a counter-charge by Turn 2. Advance them behind the Stormbolter Doms on foot and they could potentially close the Vanguard gap before Turn 1 Shooting, especially if you trail a few bolters off the back of the Stormbolter squad. I like the looks of those two units spread out across the front with a 5-inch gap between, daring someone to risk overwatch plus a strong countercharge.
Which melee weapon for the Celestian Superior? I've always done swords, but I have a cool model with an axe that I never got around to painting.
Only the stormbolters get the buff from blessed bolts. The regular bolters would be normal shots.
I want to try this unit myself (ret unit).
I'd add a plasma pistol to the superior, but want to try this too.
And definitely BR Celestians.
Regular bolters are there to soak hits and make them hard to shift... once I saw how good that strat was, it pained me every time I took casualties to that squad, and I used Spirit of the Martyr to stand one of them back up. Good call on the plasma pistol... another model I never got around to painting!
Weidekuh wrote: The more I think about it, the more I feel like the army rule of 6++ and deny on 1d6 is extremely lackluster.
The problem is, it is kinda fluffy. Because they hate psykers and every sister is trained to resist them and because they are so fanaticly devotet, sometimes the their devotion protects them from harm.
6++: 6++ is practicly useless for a 3+ model. Only ap -4 weapons make any difference. It is only ok, if you specificly build for it and castle up. And that's a boring thing to do. Now a 5++ may be too strong, I'm not sure. Mathematicly I don't think it would be, if you keep it at a possible 4++ if you build for it or 3++ once per game. But it would surely be perceived too strong. So what else? 6+++? That wouldn't be fluffy at all. For each 5 Sister in a unit you increase your invuln by +1. So a 6++ for 5 sisters. 5++ for 10 Sisters and a 4++ for 15 sisters. Like a "devotion reinforcement bubble".
deny 1d6: Against Smite it has a ~1.9% chance to make an impact. So every 50 psychic power you may get lucky. Not fun at all. But then you have a relic that makes it really good, because it bumps it to 2d6 and then you can splash it to other units. The ability is only there if you take the relic. Bad design. Keep the 1d6 but add +1 to the deny roll for every Imagifier in the unit? So you'd have a ~5% chance to deny Smite. Not really worth it too... I'm not sure how to handle that without making it too strong or too complicated.
I know those are very unlikely to change anyway.
Well the point is, you can buff both rules, you can have 4++ on most of your army, 5++ on almost all of it, and you can get some 3++
Also there is a stratagem to deny any power on a 4+, there is also a WL trait that let its deny twice, and they take the test at -1 to the roll if within 12"
Army wide rules are not suppose to be strong like <traits> are, Quins has the strongest ones IMO, but they need it fundamentally to even be playable. Look at CWE, theirs isnt used much either, it normally helps a little, but cant be buffed like ours.
And sometimes, you just need a fluff rule to make you feel special. Our Deny on a 1D6 is just that.
Amishprn86 wrote: I think Celestians has potential for sure, 2 more points than BSS but gains 1 more attack, run 1 unit like you would with BSS, but give the Seperior a melee weapon, along side the Canoness with the Relic sword, a preacher, and Dialgous in a Rhino, this could be in a vanguard detachment of Bloody Rose, on the charge they will do some good damage with The Passion, attacking twice with 21 S4 attacks 5 that are power weapons, re-rolling 1's to hit and the Canoness with 5 S6 -3ap 3D, hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1's. After the Celestians are now extra wounds, its the Jack of All unit. Its 169 points + the Rhino, not very costly honestly. But at the same time to costly (Due to Rhino)
The mounted melee-star hadn't occurred to me, and might be pretty solid as Sisters go. I had imagined them walking (likely jogging with regular Advances) so that the Canoness and Celestine could keep their auras centered over the second wave of transports in a mech list. Once something comes out to meet the Vanguard Doms, they could still be in range of a counter-charge by Turn 2. Advance them behind the Stormbolter Doms on foot and they could potentially close the Vanguard gap before Turn 1 Shooting, especially if you trail a few bolters off the back of the Stormbolter squad. I like the looks of those two units spread out across the front with a 5-inch gap between, daring someone to risk overwatch plus a strong countercharge.
Which melee weapon for the Celestian Superior? I've always done swords, but I have a cool model with an axe that I never got around to painting.
Only the stormbolters get the buff from blessed bolts. The regular bolters would be normal shots.
I want to try this unit myself (ret unit).
I'd add a plasma pistol to the superior, but want to try this too.
And definitely BR Celestians.
Regular bolters are there to soak hits and make them hard to shift... once I saw how good that strat was, it pained me every time I took casualties to that squad, and I used Spirit of the Martyr to stand one of them back up. Good call on the plasma pistol... another model I never got around to painting!
IDK what weapon honestly, i math it out with a power sword to be cheap, but i have 1 with each, power sword, maul, Axe, and chainsword.
OH WOW, just realize, we lost Power Axes, i like power Axes the best, b.c most units have either bad army or invul atm (unless you are marines non characters)
Hmm..... i will be playing out of index a bit then.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/18 06:28:45
Weidekuh wrote: The more I think about it, the more I feel like the army rule of 6++ and deny on 1d6 is extremely lackluster.
The problem is, it is kinda fluffy. Because they hate psykers and every sister is trained to resist them and because they are so fanaticly devotet, sometimes the their devotion protects them from harm.
6++:
6++ is practicly useless for a 3+ model. Only ap -4 weapons make any difference. It is only ok, if you specificly build for it and castle up. And that's a boring thing to do.
Now a 5++ may be too strong, I'm not sure. Mathematicly I don't think it would be, if you keep it at a possible 4++ if you build for it or 3++ once per game. But it would surely be perceived too strong. So what else? 6+++? That wouldn't be fluffy at all.
For each 5 Sister in a unit you increase your invuln by +1. So a 6++ for 5 sisters. 5++ for 10 Sisters and a 4++ for 15 sisters. Like a "devotion reinforcement bubble".
deny 1d6:
Against Smite it has a ~1.9% chance to make an impact. So every 50 psychic power you may get lucky. Not fun at all. But then you have a relic that makes it really good, because it bumps it to 2d6 and then you can splash it to other units.
The ability is only there if you take the relic. Bad design.
Keep the 1d6 but add +1 to the deny roll for every Imagifier in the unit? So you'd have a ~5% chance to deny Smite. Not really worth it too... I'm not sure how to handle that without making it too strong or too complicated.
I know those are very unlikely to change anyway.
I'm in favor of something like the Graia army trait from Admech. A 6+ save against the model being removed.
For shield of faith's psychic defense, how about something similar to sister of silence. The first time a unit is targeted with a power, it's casting roll is lowered by 1d3, or something like that. Powerful casters like Magnus could still punch through, but lower level casters would have trouble. It would also, unlike the current BoHF/SoF stop the sisters from shutting down the phase entirely, and give a reason to take inquisitors.
Regular bolters are there to soak hits and make them hard to shift... once I saw how good that strat was, it pained me every time I took casualties to that squad, and I used Spirit of the Martyr to stand one of them back up. Good call on the plasma pistol... another model I never got around to painting!
Just making sure we're all on the same page!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 06:38:57
Thanks for getting a new thread going guys. Now stop being so salty.
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Sisters have never been a gunline army so no surprise there. Repressors loaded with Melta Doms were the only thing allowing Sisters to punch above their weight pre Betadex that we still have left so removing them is just going to result in pain and frustration.
And this is why you don't listen to the internet. Yes, that neat trick where you scout and fire 4 melta weapons is cool, but it's not something to build an army around. You need to take and hold objectives which doms are horrible at due to their cost. It's no different than the builds with 3 exorcists, it's boring, predictable, and it ignores all the other good stuff in the index and now beta codex.
I like the new stuff mostly, I think the weapon limitations on ministers and cannonesses are criminal however.
All units with a signum, running ebon chalice seems the way to go, you are getting a decent sweep of use cases with that. Penitent engines got a massive improvement, and they were already decent hitting if they got into combat. Immolators still immolate, which is the transport you should be running is masse anyway.
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Weidekuh wrote: The more I think about it, the more I feel like the army rule of 6++ and deny on 1d6 is extremely lackluster.
The problem is, it is kinda fluffy. Because they hate psykers and every sister is trained to resist them and because they are so fanaticly devotet, sometimes the their devotion protects them from harm.
6++:
6++ is practicly useless for a 3+ model. Only ap -4 weapons make any difference. It is only ok, if you specificly build for it and castle up. And that's a boring thing to do.
Now a 5++ may be too strong, I'm not sure. Mathematicly I don't think it would be, if you keep it at a possible 4++ if you build for it or 3++ once per game. But it would surely be perceived too strong. So what else? 6+++? That wouldn't be fluffy at all.
For each 5 Sister in a unit you increase your invuln by +1. So a 6++ for 5 sisters. 5++ for 10 Sisters and a 4++ for 15 sisters. Like a "devotion reinforcement bubble".
deny 1d6:
Against Smite it has a ~1.9% chance to make an impact. So every 50 psychic power you may get lucky. Not fun at all. But then you have a relic that makes it really good, because it bumps it to 2d6 and then you can splash it to other units.
The ability is only there if you take the relic. Bad design.
Keep the 1d6 but add +1 to the deny roll for every Imagifier in the unit? So you'd have a ~5% chance to deny Smite. Not really worth it too... I'm not sure how to handle that without making it too strong or too complicated.
I know those are very unlikely to change anyway.
You are pointing out something that did not change from the index mate.....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 14:31:26
You are pointing out something that did not change from the index mate.....
So what did not change is not discussable? Or allowed to point out flaws and/or wished changes? Then why are you talking about Dominions in Repressors from the index days?
I've been working on a draft my suggestions to GW. Thought I would post it here for thoughts on my suggestions. I've uploaded it as a doc since it is 2 1/2 pages, but I can copy and paste it if anyone cares.
One thing I have noticed from a test battle last night, a Dialogus is definitely required now IMO. I started with 6 faith points and got 3 addition using the stratagem when one of my cannoness died. I did a total of 8 tests of faith (4 of them the Passion) and they all went off with about half needing the reroll from the Dialogus. Super useful!
Also, my warlord was a Cannoness with the Blade of Admonition and I was Bloody Rose. Had a Thaddeus the Purifier from Blackstone with her at all times. She's the one I got the Passion off on four times and each time I either charged or received a charge. That gave her 6 attacks, S6 -3AP 3D twice each fight phase. Murdered everything she touched. (I also got really lucky one round with my saves to keep her alive, but she finally died end of round 5).
Anyway, would appreciate any thoughts on my suggestions to GW.
Mmmpi wrote: I'm honestly not a fan of the CP for faith stratagems, either the 1 for 1, or the 1d3 for a dead character.
Particularly until either Passions, or vessels gets errata.
To be fair, the only Act of Faith that's really worth attempting, and is pretty much mandatory, is The Passion, and since you can only attempt it a maximum of 6 times per game, your list only needs to have 6 Faith Points.
The reason the AoF strats and traits all suck is because the system sucks and the Acts themselves suck (which the exception of The Passion).
If the Acts didn't suck, you would be making a weighted decision whether or not you need more Faith Points, such as if Spirit of the Martyr revived d3 one-wound models instead of just one, or Hand of the Emperor could be used during the charge phase to add 3" to a unit's charge rolls.
I would much rather see Vessel of the Emperor get removed entirely, and have Double Move and Double Shoot returned, than to see The Passion get gimped and have Acts of Faith not be worth the time it takes to roll the dice.
Further, I would like to see Vessel of the Emperor get removed simply because of the playstyle that it incentivizes (The Pink Tide), and the amount of time that playstyle takes to execute in a competitive setting.
15k+
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