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Mmmpi wrote: No, they get a plasma pistol, and/or a power sword. (I wish they could take combi-weapons)
The conversation has gotten mixed up a bit.
Correct. I thought the conversation was about Superiors for the other squads; they can have a pistol, a bolter-weapon and a melee weapon. Seraphim Superiors can only have bolt pistols, can replace one bolt pistol with a plasma pistol and can replace the other with a chainsword or power sword.
For BSS/Dominions/Celestians/Retributors, there's no point in not giving them a chainsword because it's free and you give up nothing to do so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 14:58:06
Sigh, if only other conversations got sorted out this easily...
But yeah, I like plasma pistols for my inferno seraphim leaders, because it meshes well with the squad's usual role. I wish I could take two of them...
There's still questions about Ministorum priests vs Missionaries and Preachers as well.
MP are still an option in the Index and IG Dex and can take equipment. Further, there's no confirmation that either unit replaces MP or are the same unit as MP. So technically you can run a Ministorum Priest as an elites slot, though I wouldn't for play testing purposes.
I haven't really worried about it, mostly on the grounds that I'm only taking them for the buff, and like them cheap. 35 points for an HQ is useful for filling battalions on the cheap.
Uriah, for 15 more points, is a way better HQ than a missionary. In addition to his normal priest abilities he more attacks, more wounds, a better WS/BS, a better gun, and a +1 LD buff which comes in handy.
I've been using him to great success and that extra wound has come up a lot.
@PenitentJake - For the points spent on the Repetina I can get a BA smash captain battalion which is better against everything but hordes and gives me the much needed and incredibly useful scouts.
I've been working a bridge + BA list for LVO. I've also looked at the numbers and combos and in every case Bloody Rose wins out over the 5+ overwatch. Only losing 1 guy from moral is nice but when your LD10, guys stay on a 4+ and you have 3 ways to migrate that with CP/FP it just doesn't feel like it's worth giving up extra attacks for more overwatch hits.
Taikishi wrote: There's still questions about Ministorum priests vs Missionaries and Preachers as well.
MP are still an option in the Index and IG Dex and can take equipment. Further, there's no confirmation that either unit replaces MP or are the same unit as MP. So technically you can run a Ministorum Priest as an elites slot, though I wouldn't for play testing purposes.
While Ministorum Priests are in the Index and therefore an option, they aren't in the list of non-Sororitas keyword units which won't break your detachment, so it's not something you'd want to do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/10 16:38:44
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I've been working a bridge + BA list for LVO. I've also looked at the numbers and combos and in every case Bloody Rose wins out over the 5+ overwatch. Only losing 1 guy from moral is nice but when your LD10, guys stay on a 4+ and you have 3 ways to migrate that with CP/FP it just doesn't feel like it's worth giving up extra attacks for more overwatch hits.
This might be true a lot of the time, but it flat out isn't true in 'Every Case'
A squad of 4 Melta Dominion's being charged by a Hellbrute is going to want to hit on 5's a heck of a lot more than get 4 extra WS4 attacks.
In general Melta heavy sisters will much prefer 5+ Overwatch, Melta is expensive, and thus less bodies and each ranged shot matters more. Big bolter heavy squads will love to double their attacks at Strength 4.
Fortunately, however, Dominion's make great Outrider detachments with their own order keyword...
Taikishi wrote: There's still questions about Ministorum priests vs Missionaries and Preachers as well.
MP are still an option in the Index and IG Dex and can take equipment. Further, there's no confirmation that either unit replaces MP or are the same unit as MP. So technically you can run a Ministorum Priest as an elites slot, though I wouldn't for play testing purposes.
While Ministorum Priests are in the Index and therefore an option, they aren't in the list of non-Sororitas keyword units which won't break your detachment, so it's not something you'd want to do.
Incorrect. Ministorum Priests are listed as models that don't break order convictions and as one of the keywords Adepta Sororitas units is shorthand for. Jacobus, Priests, Missionaries and Preachers + the character from BSF all have the Ministorum Priest keyword.
I've been working a bridge + BA list for LVO. I've also looked at the numbers and combos and in every case Bloody Rose wins out over the 5+ overwatch. Only losing 1 guy from moral is nice but when your LD10, guys stay on a 4+ and you have 3 ways to migrate that with CP/FP it just doesn't feel like it's worth giving up extra attacks for more overwatch hits.
This might be true a lot of the time, but it flat out isn't true in 'Every Case'
A squad of 4 Melta Dominion's being charged by a Hellbrute is going to want to hit on 5's a heck of a lot more than get 4 extra WS4 attacks.
In general Melta heavy sisters will much prefer 5+ Overwatch, Melta is expensive, and thus less bodies and each ranged shot matters more. Big bolter heavy squads will love to double their attacks at Strength 4.
Fortunately, however, Dominion's make great Outrider detachments with their own order keyword...
I know for a fact I get charged a lot more than I charge the enemy with my Doms and BSS. The 5+ overwatch is more valuable than the swings. Most of the time I don't usually get to swing back. It's arguable either way, though.
I've been working a bridge + BA list for LVO. I've also looked at the numbers and combos and in every case Bloody Rose wins out over the 5+ overwatch. Only losing 1 guy from moral is nice but when your LD10, guys stay on a 4+ and you have 3 ways to migrate that with CP/FP it just doesn't feel like it's worth giving up extra attacks for more overwatch hits.
This might be true a lot of the time, but it flat out isn't true in 'Every Case'
A squad of 4 Melta Dominion's being charged by a Hellbrute is going to want to hit on 5's a heck of a lot more than get 4 extra WS4 attacks.
In general Melta heavy sisters will much prefer 5+ Overwatch, Melta is expensive, and thus less bodies and each ranged shot matters more. Big bolter heavy squads will love to double their attacks at Strength 4.
Fortunately, however, Dominion's make great Outrider detachments with their own order keyword...
I know for a fact I get charged a lot more than I charge the enemy with my Doms and BSS. The 5+ overwatch is more valuable than the swings. Most of the time I don't usually get to swing back. It's arguable either way, though.
I guess but you lose a lot of from Aura's if you mix tactics. Either way I don't find melta guns that great on a high end competitive level. They are too random and spikey. A well spent CP and a 4++ can easily shut down a unit of Melta Doms who have no real survivability on their own and whose only goal is to kill high value targets. Repressers add some safety to them but t7 not in 4++ range isn't great.
I've been working a bridge + BA list for LVO. I've also looked at the numbers and combos and in every case Bloody Rose wins out over the 5+ overwatch. Only losing 1 guy from moral is nice but when your LD10, guys stay on a 4+ and you have 3 ways to migrate that with CP/FP it just doesn't feel like it's worth giving up extra attacks for more overwatch hits.
This might be true a lot of the time, but it flat out isn't true in 'Every Case'
A squad of 4 Melta Dominion's being charged by a Hellbrute is going to want to hit on 5's a heck of a lot more than get 4 extra WS4 attacks.
In general Melta heavy sisters will much prefer 5+ Overwatch, Melta is expensive, and thus less bodies and each ranged shot matters more. Big bolter heavy squads will love to double their attacks at Strength 4.
Fortunately, however, Dominion's make great Outrider detachments with their own order keyword...
I know for a fact I get charged a lot more than I charge the enemy with my Doms and BSS. The 5+ overwatch is more valuable than the swings. Most of the time I don't usually get to swing back. It's arguable either way, though.
I find my self charging a lot with them. Even if they get charged the extra attacks and strength at least gives you a much better chance of punching your way out of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/10 17:59:15
PuppetSoul wrote: Yes, I always factor in Sisters' offensive units as being in range of the deathstar of Celestine, the Indomitable Belief Canoness, a Priest and a Dialogus, because that's when Sisters are good, and not surprisingly that's where your Sisters need to be in order to be successful.
Not sure how many games you have played with the Beta, I have 20. Those buffers are easily sniped out by an opponent with a clue. Deathstar doesn't hold up long. I prefer the overwatch to the extra attack, they won't hold up through getting charged AFTER being kited, sniped, and focus fired.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/27 12:08:17
Not sure how many games you have played with the Beta, I have 20. Those buffers are easily sniped out by an opponent with a clue. Deathstar doesn't hold up long. I prefer the overwatch to the extra attack, they won't hold up through getting charged AFTER being kited, sniped, and focus fired.
Celestians soak wounds for the Canoness. If you're facing Snipers: The Army you're probably going to lose on concept.
Celestine is unconcerned with sniper fire.
The Dialogus and Priest are not that important enough to matter.
Suffice to say, if it can throw down your characters, which are simply multi-wound versions of your basics, chances are it would flatten a squad that wants to overwatch instead if those units weren't present.
If the problem is being "kited, sniper, and focus fired", I fail to see how you expect improved overwatch to help with that, or contribute to it at all.
Taikishi wrote: Incorrect. Ministorum Priests are listed as models that don't break order convictions and as one of the keywords Adepta Sororitas units is shorthand for. Jacobus, Priests, Missionaries and Preachers + the character from BSF all have the Ministorum Priest keyword.
Unfortunately, the language from the CA blurb is pretty restrictive.
The units found in this codex and
listed below can be included in
an Adepta Sororitas Detachment
without preventing other units in that
Detachment from gaining an Order
Conviction. Note that the units listed
below can never themselves benefit
from an Order Conviction.
Emphasis mine. So they have to have one of the keywords and be in that codex, not another book, to get the exception. It's lame.
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If the problem is being "kited, sniper, and focus fired", I fail to see how you expect improved overwatch to help with that, or contribute to it at all.
Since I dont play squads blobbed up around a buff it really isnt a problem. IMO playing to do so is a bad idea. Once I do get dismounted, I am going to be charged and usually wiped during the charge phase. OoSR at least lets my girls get some hits in on occasion before they get crushed in melee.
I tried OoBR on foot blobs for five games and found that for an opponent looking to shoot you off the table, they will before you get there. For those looking to charge you, you wont last long enough to use those swings OoBR gives you.
Its not like any of the convictions are good. OoBR just leads you down a road Sisters should never be on. Repentia and a Canoness with BoA can do some decent work with OoBR once every couple of games when they actually get stuck in. I'm more inclined to bring more BSS in Repressors.
Celestian Squad [10 PL, 93pts] . 3x Celestian
. Celestian Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Celestian w/ Simulacrum: Simulacrum Imperialis
. Celestian w/ Special or Heavy Weapon: Storm bolter
. Celestian w/ Special Weapon: Storm bolter
Hospitaller [2 PL, 30pts]
Preacher [3 PL, 25pts]: Chainsword
+ Dedicated Transport +
Sororitas Repressor [5 PL, 121pts]: Heavy flamer, Heavy flamer, Storm bolter
++ Total: [114 PL, 2000pts] ++ CP7; FP8
A list i intend to play when i get a chance.
Celestine is just there to look good and rearguard wuth the exos for the 4++ where i think it will be most beneficial. Tossing up sending the pengines forward as a second wave or splitting them into 2 units for flank defence on exos against deep strikers and anything getting too close.
If opponent has no psykers, ill swap out the brazier for the Emperors Wrath bolt pistol because oddly enough i like it.
List was made with no thought to AoF or other general blobby tactics. This is more in line with how i like to field my girls, just with some of their new bells and whistles.
Command points: 3 (Battleforged) + 5 (Battalion) + 3 (Vanguard) + 3 (Spearhead) = 14 (Unless I missed a FAQ or something)
The faith count is right is on, and quite frankly, I was surprised- I thought it would be more, but there are only 85 qualifying models; it's because I took so many Ministorum units.
You don't have Celestine.
I hate that they took deepstrike away from her. She can't effectively command an Outrider detachment kitted for Burning Descent, and that is a HUGE mistake/missed opportunity. Think about 3x 10 Seraphim + 2 Geminae (even though they've been nerfed by the separation from Celestine) and Celestine ALL dropping in the same turn- easily the most cinematic moment a sisters player could want.
Anyway, I mentioned in the last paragraph that I'm building a 4th detachment. Said detachment would NEED Celestine because I've already used up all 3 of my generic Canonesses and GW didn't see fit to put Veridian rules in the index or the beta dex, even though she's had model since 7th, and rules in that edition to boot.
Now that it's costed (thanks BTW), I know I wouldn't be able to include 4 together even if my opponent was cool about the detachment limit. If I swapped out the Ministorum Spearhead for the Celestine/ Seraphim Outrider, it would also increase my faith points. Unfortunately, if I drop the Spearhead, the Repentia lose their escort, and at that point I'd absolutely have to mech the repentia up at that point. Rhinos are cheap enough, and I planned to convert 3 with spare penitent pilots mounted on the hull, kitted out with some of the spikey bits from the chaos rhino upgrade sprue and generous helpings of buck store costume jewelry chain.
Your Repentia are not being deployed inside a transport, so they're never going to make it anywhere near combat, and they're free kills to anyone who so much as looks at them.
More of them will die in overwatch than will kill things in combat.
Similar for the Arcoflagellants, although they're significantly more resilient to overwatch.
You are probably right, and as mentioned above, the rhinos for the repentia are on standby. But with this list, I really wanted to playtest the validity of target saturation combined with healing. I may also shift all three hospitallers into the penitent legion and send one with each battle group- unlike spirit of the Martyr, Hospitallers can heal penitent engines and arcoflagellants. Here's how it works I'm hoping this works out:
On the approach, enemy units have to choose: do we shoot a) the penitent engine b) the flagellants c) the repentia or d) try to split fire. Additionally, as I'm moving up the battle field, I'm not really outpacing the foot soldiers in the other detachments, so the opponent has to wonder about how much of an advantage I'm going to get in capturing/ holding objectives, because if two 15 strong Sacred Rose squads park on objectives, they'll be a challenge to move. And finally, the headhunter battlegroup in the Battalion will be coming for the big threat, and if the enemy knows how Blessed Bolts works, there's another target priority threat. This battlegroup will very likely be flanking the same enemy target as at least one of the penitent battlegroups (unless the enemy decides to prioritize the objective game, because then the headhunters will be needed to clear the objective before the squads of 15 can get into position to defend).
So let's say I send a single penitent battle group to target an enemy. They deploy out of LOS if possible, so if the enemy gets the first turn, I'm not particular vulnerable, although there might be some indirect fire or fast attack/ strategem shenanigans. Whenever my turn begins I ask: 1) is the penitent engine injured? If so, heal 1d3 with hospitaller 2) has the priest been wounded? If so, and if it hasn't already been used, heal 1d3 with the hospitaller. 3) have I lost an arco? If yes, and if still possible, bring an arco back with the hospitaller 3) have any of the sororitas characters (usually just the mistress and the hospitaller herself, but one of these battle groups does include a canoness) taken wounds? If so, and if possible heal with the hospitaller; if so, but the hospitaller is used up, use spirit of the martyr instead. Sometimes vessels will pay; if all of your sororitas characters are injured and you've lost a repentia, a single AoF can potentially heal 4-6 wounds and resurrect a repentia; if the canoness is a part of this battle group that goes up to a potential 6-9 wounds. If the headhunters also happen to be in range (admittedly unlikely) it goes up to 8-12 wounds.
If two penitent battlegroups combine, those numbers, including the resurrected repentia, double.
Also, if any of the legion do get into hand to hand, being there doesn't prevent them from doing ANY of this healing.
As I advance, I'm also trying to make the most of LOS and cover.
On dealing with overwatch: if the enemy is a blob of MSU, I only declare a charge against one of the units to minimize the number of shots. Arcos go first. If even one model makes it, the unit no longer gets over watch. Then the repentia come; depending upon the circumstances, I can either count on at least a few surviving and attempt to tie up an additional MSU, or if I feel it's risky, I just charge the locked unit, and all of the sudden, overwatch-smoverwatch.
Then the Penitent engine comes. Same strategy as repentia.
If on the other hand, I play math hammer mech, the rhino outpaces everything else in the legion thereby absorbing all of the fire, blowing up on the first turn, killing a few of the repentia inside and leaving the survivors to far away from the rest of the legion's threats so that the untanked repentia soak all the fire and never make it into combat.
Or the rhino gets lucky and makes it to a place where disembarking makes sense; on the turn I get there, I can't disembark. Once again, cut off from the legion, my rhino takes all the enemy fire and blows up, taking repentia with it. If by some miracle the rhino survives, on the following turn I can hopefully make the charge (and with the extra 3 for disembark, plus the extra 3" AOF if I need it, plus the mistress rerolling charge, I concede- you're going to make it). But the repentia will definitely take overwatch fire on the charge, whereas the other scenario gave them a chance to avoid overwatch by getting lucky with arcos.
But lets say that some them do make it and they win; if they can consolidate into another hth, great. If not, they're isolated and they die on the following enemy turn. In my scenario, they have a chance to still be in the company of arcos, a penitent engine, a priest and a hospitaller. So who do the enemy survivors target? And do any of their targets survive? Because if so, there's a good chance that healing and resurrecting will have in impact in your following turn.
So maybe mech would be better. But I think that we've heard that so often that we've convinced ourselves its true. The math in this thread is fabulous, but many competitive players trust it so much that they never try anything weird, so they never get to see interactions between strategies like target saturation and flexible battle group cooperations; these tactics and layers of support have an impact upon the function of under rated strategems and AoFs that might be difficult to replicate in a mathematical simulation.
Either way, the only way I'm going to find out is to try it. Cheers!
If the problem is being "kited, sniper, and focus fired", I fail to see how you expect improved overwatch to help with that, or contribute to it at all.
Since I dont play squads blobbed up around a buff it really isnt a problem. IMO playing to do so is a bad idea. Once I do get dismounted, I am going to be charged and usually wiped during the charge phase. OoSR at least lets my girls get some hits in on occasion before they get crushed in melee.
I tried OoBR on foot blobs for five games and found that for an opponent looking to shoot you off the table, they will before you get there. For those looking to charge you, you wont last long enough to use those swings OoBR gives you.
Its not like any of the convictions are good. OoBR just leads you down a road Sisters should never be on. Repentia and a Canoness with BoA can do some decent work with OoBR once every couple of games when they actually get stuck in. I'm more inclined to bring more BSS in Repressors.
Personally, I still think the 4++ blob is a trap. I've used it several times and it's never been that big of a deal. Acts of Faith are irrelevant, even hitting the entire army and the difference between running 150 3+6++ models and 150 3+4++ models is pretty small. Either they have enough high volume shots to kill you or they don't. The only time I can see the 4++ blob getting significant value is against Disinitigrator spam or if you're just doing a deliberate slowplay build.
It always comes down to the same question, what AP-2 weapon are they shooting at your sisters really? Even if they have no other targets for their anti-tank weapons, the 4++ will save maybe a handful of sisters over the course of a game that cover and/or the more flexible 5++ couldn't, at the cost of most of your mobility and making the army inflexible, predictable, and vulnerable to being locked down in combat. I think people are taking the blob, winning, and crediting the 4++ when it was just the number of cheap 3+ gumming up their opponents guns.
dracpanzer wrote: Its not like any of the convictions are good. OoBR just leads you down a road Sisters should never be on. Repentia and a Canoness with BoA can do some decent work with OoBR once every couple of games when they actually get stuck in. I'm more inclined to bring more BSS in Repressors.
I actually quite like the OoBR conviction - it's both powerful enough to make choices you wouldn't normally take a bit more appealing while being situational enough to not be some kind of auto-take. Though it's a shame the repentia are so reliant on it to even begin to be relevant.
If the problem is being "kited, sniper, and focus fired", I fail to see how you expect improved overwatch to help with that, or contribute to it at all.
Since I dont play squads blobbed up around a buff it really isnt a problem. IMO playing to do so is a bad idea. Once I do get dismounted, I am going to be charged and usually wiped during the charge phase. OoSR at least lets my girls get some hits in on occasion before they get crushed in melee.
I tried OoBR on foot blobs for five games and found that for an opponent looking to shoot you off the table, they will before you get there. For those looking to charge you, you wont last long enough to use those swings OoBR gives you.
Its not like any of the convictions are good. OoBR just leads you down a road Sisters should never be on. Repentia and a Canoness with BoA can do some decent work with OoBR once every couple of games when they actually get stuck in. I'm more inclined to bring more BSS in Repressors.
Personally, I still think the 4++ blob is a trap. I've used it several times and it's never been that big of a deal. Acts of Faith are irrelevant, even hitting the entire army and the difference between running 150 3+6++ models and 150 3+4++ models is pretty small. Either they have enough high volume shots to kill you or they don't. The only time I can see the 4++ blob getting significant value is against Disinitigrator spam or if you're just doing a deliberate slowplay build.
It always comes down to the same question, what AP-2 weapon are they shooting at your sisters really? Even if they have no other targets for their anti-tank weapons, the 4++ will save maybe a handful of sisters over the course of a game that cover and/or the more flexible 5++ couldn't, at the cost of most of your mobility and making the army inflexible, predictable, and vulnerable to being locked down in combat. I think people are taking the blob, winning, and crediting the 4++ when it was just the number of cheap 3+ gumming up their opponents guns.
The reason I think I've found success with the 4++ blob (as well as Exorcists and BA) is because no one single unit in my army is really worth shooting at nor is it really good other than the BA. Wasting fire power on a 9pt Sister of Battle or t8 4++ tank generally isn't advisable and with cover being a thing you won't kill that many.
Basically the blob presents your opponent with a bunch of terrible choices that they have to make while in return no single unit in your army really matters because you have so much redundancy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 15:20:54
The 4++ is really nice for someone who never gets to go first because they only roll 1s or 2s for that roll and may break down and cry next time it happens....
I use it for the initial castle up to accept the top of 1 salvo. "I'm deployed. My entire army has 4++. Top of 1. You're up. Good luck, have fun."
Then bottom of 1 it's time to fan out and go to work. But yes, anything that's killing our T3 models doesn't care if they have a 4++.
I have yet to go first with the blob. Out of 10ish games I have yet to win that roll. With a 2+/4++ it hasn't really mattered. I'm not actually sure I want to ever go first with the list.
For BSS/Dominions/Celestians/Retributors, there's no point in not giving them a chainsword because it's free and you give up nothing to do so.
You actually do, since the Superiors can only take a melee weapon OR a ranged weapon, so you have to give up the boltgun's slot if you want to give them a chainsword.
Automatically Appended Next Post: +
deviantduck wrote: The 4++ is really nice for someone who never gets to go first because they only roll 1s or 2s for that roll and may break down and cry next time it happens....
I use it for the initial castle up to accept the top of 1 salvo. "I'm deployed. My entire army has 4++. Top of 1. You're up. Good luck, have fun."
Then bottom of 1 it's time to fan out and go to work. But yes, anything that's killing our T3 models doesn't care if they have a 4++.
You actually don't WANT to go first with the blob, since you start as a boardwide 2+/4++, and there's nothing of value they can shoot at and reasonably expect to clear.
In trade, you get Control More pretty much guaranteed for the whole game, and Kill More for the first turn, because it's significantly easier for you to clean up chaff includes than it is for them to chew through ten 2+/4++ bodies that are effectively immune to morale.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 16:53:47
For BSS/Dominions/Celestians/Retributors, there's no point in not giving them a chainsword because it's free and you give up nothing to do so.
You actually do, since the Superiors can only take a melee weapon OR a ranged weapon, so you have to give up the boltgun's slot if you want to give them a chainsword.
No you don't. Check both the Imperium 2 FAQ AND the beta-dex.
BSS, beta-dex: "The Sister Superior may replace her boltgun with a weapon from the Ranged Weapons or Melee Weapons list, or take a weapon from the Melee Weapons in addition to her other wargear."
Celestians, same line.
Dominions same line.
Retributors same line.
FAQ Page 99 – Battle Sisters Squad, Wargear Options Add the following wargear option: ‘• The Sister Superior may take a weapon from the Melee Weapons list.’
Same line for all the other units listed.
So even if you want to interrupt the first part to limiting them to a bolter, pistol and melee weapon - I don't, it looks to me like you can go pistol, special, melee because of the FAQ, and MAYBE [a stretch] pistol, double melee - the FAQ + Index vs Codex floor chart give you the option of taking a melee weapon anyway so can still go pistol, special, melee.
Rynner wrote: The FAQ for index 2 really isn't active for us anymore. The wording is pretty clear, special or close combat weapon, but not both.
Well, if we have access to it as Index wargear, we can still go that route and get them, assuming the format you're playing in respects the old flowchart.
That might not be the ITC anymore, depending on whether or not Index 2 is actually "dead" or just that we're forced to use Beta Codex as if it were any other codex.
Index 2 can't be dead because GW even recognises units that are Index only in a few of the FAQs (like Orks) and a ban on Index only options would ban quite a few things no matter how good/bad they are (Marine characters in bikes, aforementioned Orks units, rifleman dreads)
Even then, the sentence mentions taking the melee weapon in addition to her other wargear (which would include ranged weapons beyond bolters), permitting taking ranged + melee. You give up nothing. As for the FAQ, it's active until GW says it isn't or removes those entries from the FAQ.
As for the wall of text above, you have your CP wrong. The only detachments that reward more than 1CP are battalions, brigades and the min-three LoW super heavy detachment.
Edited to correct some autocorrect errors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 22:30:40
