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AdmiralHalsey wrote:
Yes. Please.
There's no reason for it to be 'Pink', none of the cannon sisters have a particularly pink paint scheme. It's a really really silly name, and I shall continue to mentally re-edit it to 'Terribly Poor Tactics' whenever I see it.

Ill take that deal

Pink for girls, blue for boys only started in the 1950’s by hospitals to differentiate between infants. It’s not misogynistic. Calling the color pink misogynistic simply means you don’t know what the word misogynistic means.

Calling a horde Sisters army “The Pink Tide” is the as calling a horde Astartes army The Blue Tide (a 7e Ultramarine army build).

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pink for girls, blue for boys only started in the 1950’s by hospitals to differentiate between infants. It’s not misogynistic. Calling the color pink misogynistic simply means you don’t know what the word misogynistic means.

Calling a horde Sisters army “The Pink Tide” is the as calling a horde Astartes army The Blue Tide (a 7e Ultramarine army build).

SJ

This. I don't like the name Pink Tide, but I never viewed it as anything other than labeling it a feminine color to play off of The Green Tide. I don't care for it because, while Pink is considered feminine, it doesn't actually relate to any of the sisters orders so it's just kinda dumb. It certainly doesn't ruffle my blue panties either way.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pink for girls, blue for boys only started in the 1950’s by hospitals to differentiate between infants.

Culture exists beyond the 1950s (and btw it was the 1940s, not 1950s). The only way "the pink tide" is a pun, as mentioned before, is if it's a play on multiple meanings of the same word, or multiple words with the same pronunciation or spelling. In this case, "the pink" is also a slang term for a woman's genitals alongside the forced marketing crap (which had nothing to do with hospitals btw, they actually adopted the idea afterwards, it was toy manufacturers). Thus my mention above of it being equivalent calling marines "the penis patrol". It's not clever and it's not funny, it's just facepalm-inducing.

Add to that PS's tendency to use phrases like 'Deep In the pink' and 'Brazzers' and you can see that it was pretty intentional. The phrase 'The pink tide' is not itself misogynistic, but way it has been used is kinda gross and off putting.

How about we just avoid it entirely by using a different term and then we don't have to argue about it?

For example, "footsloggers", like we've been doing for the past twenty years.

Aye. "Sunday Mass" or the tried and true "Footsloggers" has always been fine before.
But we're getting derailed enough as it is.

My LVO Summary:

I placed 476 I think? Officially I went 2-4. In reality I went 3-3. My 6th game was against a guy who clearly wanted the 3-3 title more. We chatted for 30 minutes before we even started deploying. At dice down after 3 turns, I was up, but he wanted to theory hammer out 3 more turns I let him go to town and he reported the win. Good guy and a fun game.

My list: Mech stormbolters and a Castellan

Game 1: Vs Ultramarines with RG and Custodes - He had the +1 and won the roll off.
Jet bikes did some shooting but altogether ineffective. Castellan and exorcists cleaned them up. Retributors killed a couple. Celestine ate 13 hellblasters, Tiggy, and then RG. RG assaulted her, did 6 wounds, she saved 4 of 6, then CP rerolled the 5th. So she only took 1 wound at 3 dmg. This was the only time on the weekend she got to fight twice. After RG's failure, she ate his lunch. I tabled him top of 4.

Game 2: Vs Necrons - I had the +1 and lost the roll off.
This was my first game against Necrons in 8th edition. So there's a Necron strat for 3x Doom Scythes I had no idea existed. Only 1 shoots and you pick a point on the table and start dealing out mortal wounds. So, first shot of the game kill Both Canonesses, Celestine for the first time, 9 of 10 retributors. 6 damage to an exorcist, and 4 damage to a repressor. Hard to come back from that. I still fought the good fight and lost 30+ to 17.

Game 3: Vs Death Guard + Ahriman - I had the +1 and lost the roll off but Seized.
My dice betrayed me. I didn't necessarily play it wrong, but he never missed a save on his termies, my storm bolters rolled poorly, and the Castellan didn't kill a single model until it blew up and took a chaos lord with it. Celestine didn't stand back up due to snake eyes. He and I laughed at how ludicrously awful my game went. 20 something to 9.

Game 4: Vs Necrons - I had the +1 and won the roll off.
Almost the exact same list as Game 2. Guess who now realizes the Doom Scythe strat exists? Played it defensively by the book after 2 bad losses in a row. Celestine didn't contribute this game. She held an objective, then failed a 7" charge when I needed her to. I was out of CP when she died on turn 5. Rolled a 1. Won 30-28 in 6 turns. It was way closer than it should have been.

Game 5: Vs Ultramarines and RG with Primaris - I had the +1 and lost the roll off.
He went first and had a really really good shooting. He also had great luck with the ancient banner rolls. I killed a 10 man squad of hell blasters on turn 1, but on my turn it also killed 1 exorcist. It was a slugfest and the game ended with me with an untouched castellan vs his Tiggy, Techmarine, Ancient, RG, and 1 scout in the center of the table hiding in a giant ruin. So, I couldn't target any of his characters because of it. A really fun rule! He won 25-11, or something like that. It was a very un fun game.

Game 6: Vs Deathwatch and IG - I had the +1 and lost the roll off.
This was a lopsided terrain setup. he had 2 ruins in the corners that hid his IG and Bassilisks. He also had the good side of the ruins in the center. Not a lot happened. I was barely ahead when we quit. I let him have the math hammered win.

Take aways:
The only AoF that matters is the Passion which never goes off. The +1 to BS is meh at best. I used the heal and move a couple times but never really made a difference. When units die, most of the time its overkill. A lot of my stuff is in repressors, or near a canoness and can't or don't need AoFs. Blessed bolts is amazing. It ate 5 dark angel Termies in 1 volley in game 6. Burning descent is worthless on MEQ+. Against GEQ I rarely found a place to drop in and burn them. Good players rarely give you a deep strike avenue especially with ITC first floor ruins rules.

I had a fun LVO. Probably my last for sisters. I'm going to shelve them for now and work on my Demons. I ran into Rynner and chatted with him a bit. He started off his weekend with food poisoning and it got worse from there. I never tracked you down, though Puppet. Met a few other sisters players, but none seemed to be regulars on here.

Hey it was nice to meet you too. If we both make it out to Seigeworld/Adepticon this year well actually do a Sisters meet up. Yeah LVO was rough for me. It's likely I won't go back. No ones fault, just a bad trip that wasn't worth the money. If I was smart about it I would have gotten your number and when me and puppet met up called you. We had like 10 minutes waiting in that line too.

I don't really feel like getting into my games as there will be a bit more salt than necessary but I found sisters really lacking. Excorcists really don't do enough and every time I needed a clutch act of faith I failed with a reroll. Maybe it was the caliber of players I played but Burning Descent and Seraphim lost me more games than it won. My MVPS time and time again where basic BSS with a 4++. I 100% wish I just took something like 200+ battle sisters with nothing but bolters. With what I played against the lack of anything other than bolters really would have made no difference.

If it wasn't for the fact that I don't really own anything else completive and don't want to buy a whole force I would shelve my sisters. I plan on taking a major step back in terms of event attendance though to focus on real life.

I hope this is the last nail in the coffin for my LVO experience as I'm also really sick now from the event and probably going to have to burn more PTO than I wanted for the event.

I do need to email GW my final thoughts and pray to the emperor they listen.

I hope they are listening to my emails as well. I just... the more I look at it the more I'm kinda disappointed. I mean I get that it's not really gonna introduce much new, but the stuff they DID introduce as new was really luckluster.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pink for girls, blue for boys only started in the 1950’s by hospitals to differentiate between infants. It’s not misogynistic. Calling the color pink misogynistic simply means you don’t know what the word misogynistic means.

Calling a horde Sisters army “The Pink Tide” is the as calling a horde Astartes army The Blue Tide (a 7e Ultramarine army build).

SJ

This is infact untrue.
It was the 1930's and it's a color swap from before that.

By it's very nature it's sexist in either direction, particularly as since the 1930's there have been many attempts to force people into both colors. But the efforts have been stronger in the direction of women, which is why "pink = feminine" gets so much push-back, particularly as feminism has evolved over the decades.

The name is very evocative of the "stay in the kitchen" attitude, even if you didn't intend it to be that way, and it is very much the equivalent of calling marines "The Penis Patrol".

Footsloggers, melee foot, horde sisters, or sister spam are all better, less offensive options that have already been part of the lexicon.

This is all off topic though, and we should get back to discussing what works on the tabletop for our reports to GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@DDuck and Rynner:

Sorry to hear your weekends weren't as good as expected.

I wish I could disagree with you on the AoF, but I can't. Rather than them feeling good, I find myself trying to find a use for them.

Passion only seems reliable if you use an Index Imagifer from the right order. Even then, it's a 3+. Better then 50/50, but only good if you're trying to spam vessels.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Technically it's xenoist.

Specist.

Is “The Lys Horde” a good nickname? With the Fleur de Lys being the most iconic Sister of Battle symbol.

 Mmmpi wrote:

@DDuck and Rynner:

Sorry to hear your weekends weren't as good as expected.

Thanks, it happens. I knew the meta was in really bad shape, I just didn't know how bad it was till LVO. Like I said, I probably won't go back. Other than it's size theres nothing special about it. If I'm being honest I don't think it was even very well run. 0 Updates on the BCP crash and I don't think they ever really announced rounds until they needed scores.

Very true about specist over xenoist.

And The Lys Horde is fine, at least with me, unless there's a connotation for 'lys' that neither of us knows about.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@rynner

That's rough. I've never been in a tournament larger than twenty people. While I know it's not always the case, there's the hope that the big events, particularly the long running ones, are better organized than what's thrown together by some guy at your FLGS.

As for the meta, on an individual level, it's out of our hands. Either GW needs to 'up it's game' in regards to balance, or the TO's need to make changes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, thanks for being one of the beta 'guinea pigs'. I know I haven't been able to get many games in to test the rules.

I'm happy they are taking feedback. Had this been the codex they released I'm willing to bet it would have been a dud unless people wanted the models.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Very true about specist over xenoist.

And The Lys Horde is fine, at least with me, unless there's a connotation for 'lys' that neither of us knows about.

Specist over xenoist, check.

Dare I suggest horde de lys?

Rynner wrote:
I'm happy they are taking feedback. Had this been the codex they released I'm willing to bet it would have been a dud unless people wanted the models.

I have a feeling that, like genestealer cult, the book is tied together by a bunch of things they couldn't release rules for early due to having no models, they don't want another chapterhouse thing, I realy doubt TPT was their intention

 Mmmpi wrote:
@DDuck and Rynner:

Sorry to hear your weekends weren't as good as expected.

I wish I could disagree with you on the AoF, but I can't. Rather than them feeling good, I find myself trying to find a use for them.

Passion only seems reliable if you use an Index Imagifer from the right order. Even then, it's a 3+. Better then 50/50, but only good if you're trying to spam vessels.

Don't get me wrong, I had a great time. I'll continue to go back. This was my third LVO. It will just be my last with sisters (but don't hold me to that). We had about 15 players from the STL area, including our boy Justin who tied for 3rd.

As far as tourneys go, I disagree with Rynner, but my experience was very different. LVO is one of the smoother touneys. The BCP app crashed last year for an hour with a field of 500. This year it was 700+ and really only delayed round one by 20 mins. My only beef is more time over lunch, but people demanded three hour rounds. Also, the tables and terrain are pretty and second to none. It makes Adepticon look like a joke.

Rynner, did you go solo? In my case I had 4 good friends with me, so even if the tourney was terrible, I'm still in Vegas with the boys.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Pink for girls, blue for boys only started in the 1950’s by hospitals to differentiate between infants. It’s not misogynistic. Calling the color pink misogynistic simply means you don’t know what the word misogynistic means.

Calling a horde Sisters army “The Pink Tide” is the as calling a horde Astartes army The Blue Tide (a 7e Ultramarine army build).

SJ

This is infact untrue.
It was the 1930's and it's a color swap from before that.

By it's very nature it's sexist in either direction, particularly as since the 1930's there have been many attempts to force people into both colors. But the efforts have been stronger in the direction of women, which is why "pink = feminine" gets so much push-back, particularly as feminism has evolved over the decades.

The name is very evocative of the "stay in the kitchen" attitude, even if you didn't intend it to be that way, and it is very much the equivalent of calling marines "The Penis Patrol".

Footsloggers, melee foot, horde sisters, or sister spam are all better, less offensive options that have already been part of the lexicon.

This is all off topic though, and we should get back to discussing what works on the tabletop for our reports to GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@DDuck and Rynner:

Sorry to hear your weekends weren't as good as expected.

I wish I could disagree with you on the AoF, but I can't. Rather than them feeling good, I find myself trying to find a use for them.

Passion only seems reliable if you use an Index Imagifer from the right order. Even then, it's a 3+. Better then 50/50, but only good if you're trying to spam vessels.

No you are wrong actually, President Eisenhower's wife wore a pink dress during his inauguration. AT the same time color TV just went to limited programming. News papers, and etc.. started to call it some odd name i cant remember (I think it was "Lady like Color for Power") but dont quote me on that. She loved pink, and pink wasnt a very bright or strong color, her clothes with pink were very bright/sharp for that color. It became very popular for women to wear after that.


Edit: Doing some research to find that term, i found it was actually a few things that change boys from Pink to girls to pink over the span of 1920's till 1960's, it was a gradual change with many events contributing to it. That one i said, other news reports, Home magazine's suggestions, baby boomers different likes, etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for LVO, i would love to go, but time and money, it seems to be a very good tournament compare to many ones ive seen and been to.

And ive been to some bad ones lol.

 Grundz wrote:

I have a feeling that, like genestealer cult, the book is tied together by a bunch of things they couldn't release rules for early due to having no models, they don't want another chapterhouse thing, I realy doubt TPT was their intention

Given that they put the upper-cap limitation into the Shield of Faith's text, redesigned Angelic Visage around it so that it would still be strong but not overpowering, made absolutely everything an Order-locked aura, and made The Passion a 5+ when the only things that are legitimately threatening with it are Celestine and Bloody Rose, it seems they most certainly intended to make TPT a thing: or perhaps it would be better to say that their design decisions make it obvious that they were aware that TPT was a thing, whether they intended for it to be or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Add to that PS's tendency to use phrases like 'Deep In the pink' and 'Brazzers' and you can see that it was pretty intentional. The phrase 'The pink tide' is not itself misogynistic, but way it has been used is kinda gross and off putting.

Imagine how mad you're going to be when you realize what Bloody Rose is a euphemism for.

PuppetSoul wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
Add to that PS's tendency to use phrases like 'Deep In the pink' and 'Brazzers' and you can see that it was pretty intentional. The phrase 'The pink tide' is not itself misogynistic, but way it has been used is kinda gross and off putting.

Imagine how mad you're going to be when you realize what Bloody Rose is a euphemism for.

It's a euphemism for a period.

It's also a reference to when Jesus's blood dripped on Mary's face at his crucifixion. Guess which one GW was referring to!

Let's drop this topic, and stop using TPT. There's already a name for this play style, footslogging sisters, or horde sisters. Horde de lys was also kind of cute.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

Had a brief game against GSC today which was ended prematurely in turn 2 to life reasons.
Was a 2000pt game with Hammer and Anvil deployment. I shall not do a report as not much happened and im just trying to get things back on topic.

My list:


Before anyone says anything, this list was pretty much fielding all my special and heavy weapons i have available (bring on cheaper plastics).
Couple walkaways. Having this many CP felt sooooo good. Ive tried battalion and 1cp detachments before but still felt starved. This felt so much more comfortable; so much so that i was tempted to use vessels a couple times. But then i remembered there wasnt anything worth spending it on.

Brazier got a good workout against my opponents psychic phase with his xoanthrope brood, neurathrope, patriarch and 2 malcithrope? (Not sure on name, never seen models before, like a xoanthrope and hive tyrant lovechild). Sucessfully denied 2 powers and the only ones to get through were a Horror and a small smite. Wouldve been interesting to see how further turns would have gone.

Burning descent is great against non-meq and the hand flamers really outdid themselves (took out 9 cultists)

Exorcist did amazing work with one taking down a lovechild in its opening volley.
When it comes to Exos, they cleaely perform at the awesome end of the scale fir me, so im exceptionally happy with where they are now.

As we all know. Faith is meh to bleh. Only tried a faith once just so i could go for the faith and fury strat but failed the faith.

The idea of having strats play off faith is interesting and im not opposed to it, but if a strat needs a passed faith in order to proc, it needs to be stronger- ie reroll all failed wounds.

Given that they put the upper-cap limitation into the Shield of Faith's text, redesigned Angelic Visage around it so that it would still be strong but not overpowering, made absolutely everything an Order-locked aura, and made The Passion a 5+ when the only things that are legitimately threatening with it are Celestine and Bloody Rose, it seems they most certainly intended to make TPT a thing: or perhaps it would be better to say that their design decisions make it obvious that they were aware that TPT was a thing, whether they intended for it to be or not.


I certainly think it was thought to be better than it is, but its already a limited codex, and TPT pretty much requires ignoring half or more of it and just using sisters as tanky guard, it would be sad if that was the case. Then again I'm putting together a flamethrower knight for my sisters army to do more or less that >.>

 deviantduck wrote:
@DDuck and Rynner:
Rynner, did you go solo? In my case I had 4 good friends with me, so even if the tourney was terrible, I'm still in Vegas with the boys.

Yeah I went with a few people from the area. I don't drink or gamble though so Vegas doesn't really appeal me. I basically went for the tournament and left fairly disappointed. As I said before, it really wasn't anyone's fault, just a series of bad thing after bad thing that doesn't really make me want to go back.

The reason I didn't think it was special was that every other GT I've ever been to, including the one I run, gives out dice or objective markers, or the like. Here we just got a rules packet that we were told not to lose. I suppose you can argue the water they gave us was the dice but when you don't allow water bottles in you almost have to give out water.

I think I've derailed this thread enough with my LVO experience - lets get back to talking tactics, for those of us who still want to bravely play sisters!

If they wanted to make foot-horde Sisters a thing they should have given it more tools to actually use. But foot-horde Sisters just doesn't have much going for it vs other hordes aside from the very powerful Bloody Rose doctrine.

And I like that doctrine, don't get me wrong. It basically lifts the melee threat of Sisters to be about on par with a Blood Angels scout marine, which is certainly an improvement over a Guard horde, but let's face it, it's not like close combat players are particularly terrified of charging BA scouts. Or of being charged by them.

 Melissia wrote:

And I like that doctrine, don't get me wrong. It basically lifts the melee threat of Sisters to be about on par with a Blood Angels scout marine, which is certainly an improvement over a Guard horde, but let's face it, it's not like close combat players are particularly terrified of charging BA scouts. Or of being charged by them.

100%! It's not like MSU melee units have been setting the meta. OoBR is great for Repentia, which have their difficulties but hit like a chainsaw wielding maniac. I don't want my regular Sisters getting into close combat if I can help it. I'll take the extra chance at overwatch from OoSR where I have a better chance of killing things before they charge and kill my squad before they get to swing back.

The OoSR conviction isn't great either, but it at least gets used when I play and gives some benefit. When my Repentia get stuck in OoBR is awesome like it should be. The rest of the convictions just aren't very convincing....

The overwatch thing is my second choice for sure. I like Bloody Rose a little bit more just because I favor shoot+charge tactics vs infantry.

That's the combo I'll be testing this weekend... OoSR Brigade and OoBR Battalion. I'd been running Valorous Heart but it just seemed inconsistent and didn't really shape the game.

 Mmmpi wrote:
And The Lys Horde is fine, at least with me, unless there's a connotation for 'lys' that neither of us knows about.

Royalists. In France it's a big symbol for royalists, which are… about as right-wing as you could expect people pushing for an autocracy with a monarch chosen by god.
But that's very irrelevant to the nickname for a kind of Sisters list, because nobody will mistake a Sisters player for a royalist just because both faction use the Fleur de Lys ^^.

 MacPhail wrote:
Dare I suggest horde de lys?

As a French speaker that sounds super weird (think Hordes of Daisies level of weird ), but why not?

Rynner wrote:
I don't drink or gamble though so Vegas doesn't really appeal me.

But what about the cool rollercoasters that go in and out of buildings?
That and generally all the weird building was the thing that made Vegas interesting to me. For the whole “less than one hour” I spent there .

(Also you can get married and divorced the same day, have you tried this?)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:
And The Lys Horde is fine, at least with me, unless there's a connotation for 'lys' that neither of us knows about.

Royalists. In France it's a big symbol for royalists, which are… about as right-wing as you could expect people pushing for an autocracy with a monarch chosen by god.
But that's very irrelevant to the nickname for a kind of Sisters list, because nobody will mistake a Sisters player for a royalist just because both faction use the Fleur de Lys ^^.

 MacPhail wrote:
Dare I suggest horde de lys?

As a French speaker that sounds super weird (think Hordes of Daisies level of weird ), but why not?

Are the Royalists a large group in France? I'm honestly not that familiar with French national politics.

And yeah, there's no way people would normally conflate the two.

Yeah, horde of lilies is odd, but well, so is the Imperium. Though on further reflection, it could be taken the wrong way with a bit of effort.