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Well, yes, but I play Sororitas, not Ministorum, lol.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

Yes.
I'd guess the immediate change would be that you lose a squad or so from your old list due to the higher costs of combi-weapons, multi-melta rets, banners, etc. As you say getting those back from losing your vehicles and going all infantry.

So indeed, not much changes. Except I get rites and good convictions, with useful stratagems. So overall an improvement, even discounting the unreliable miracle dice.

The new units though, could be better than average. I am eyeballing the 6 giant robots you can take. Kind of reminds me of the melee Kastellans. I'm not positive about them becuase I literally just haven't seen everything. But I think those need to be tested. Sisters of Battle REALLY don't "do" melee much. Arco-Flagellents have been awesome (to this point) but one unit hardly qualifies as truly committing to that phase. I cant say I hate the price on those, if rumors are true. It's really an interesting prospect. We've been so disappointed for so long when it came to those that we probably aren't expending much time thinking about them now...but should we be?

Squadron 1-4 so it's actually 24 giant robots. Not for nothing but point for point they're probably the best units in the army.

ERJAK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Then I can buy them combi weapons. Probably combi-meltas.

Yes.
I'd guess the immediate change would be that you lose a squad or so from your old list due to the higher costs of combi-weapons, multi-melta rets, banners, etc. As you say getting those back from losing your vehicles and going all infantry.

So indeed, not much changes. Except I get rites and good convictions, with useful stratagems. So overall an improvement, even discounting the unreliable miracle dice.

The new units though, could be better than average. I am eyeballing the 6 giant robots you can take. Kind of reminds me of the melee Kastellans. I'm not positive about them becuase I literally just haven't seen everything. But I think those need to be tested. Sisters of Battle REALLY don't "do" melee much. Arco-Flagellents have been awesome (to this point) but one unit hardly qualifies as truly committing to that phase. I cant say I hate the price on those, if rumors are true. It's really an interesting prospect. We've been so disappointed for so long when it came to those that we probably aren't expending much time thinking about them now...but should we be?

Squadron 1-4 so it's actually 24 giant robots. Not for nothing but point for point they're probably the best units in the army.

I thought they were 6 robot units. Well I guess it doesnt matter,. Either way they look really...feasible. I mean spamming insane robots seems, you know, spammy. But then again, it isnt like we dont deserve to be THAT LADY IN POWER ARMOR about it given our long suffering. So....

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Well, yes, but I play Sororitas, not Ministorum, lol.

The Mortifiers actually have the Adeptas Sororitas keyword, so you can live the stompy robot dream whilst remaining pure!

I guess contextually that means they're Sisters that have transgressed? Or it could be like the Repentia and they've volunteered for Mortification... That would also explain the 3+3+ for WS and BS as opposed to the 4+5+ on Pengines

Mortifiers are Sororitas that have sinned in an ever greater sense than Repentia. Repentia is mostly a "I have do bad, I need to repent" thing. Mortifiers are "You crazy ****, what have you done, to the Death-Mixer you go!"

 Galas wrote:
Mortifiers are Sororitas that have sinned in an ever greater sense than Repentia. Repentia is mostly a "I have do bad, I need to repent" thing. Mortifiers are "You crazy ****, what have you done, to the Death-Mixer you go!"

Yeah you have to mess up bad I guess to be in the most awesome robots. Lol. Irony. It just hangs in the air for 40K.

Celestine can give Mortifiers an invulnerable saved (the second part of that ability does not specify infantry) and then Junith can improve that invulnerable save to a 5++. Could be good. They are both reasonably tough and can both keep up with Mortifiers advancing forward. Could be a thing. Either way, I'm liking the look of fortifiers a lot.

EDIT: Right, Junith gives it to Adepta Sororitas infantry. Mixed up the fact that it doesn't care about the order. My bad.

Raulengrin wrote:
Celestine can give Mortifiers an invulnerable saved (the second part of that ability does not specify infantry) and then Junith can improve that invulnerable save to a 5++. Could be good. They are both reasonably tough and can both keep up with Mortifiers advancing forward. Could be a thing. Either way, I'm liking the look of fortifiers a lot.

People keep saying that the invulnerable save boost no longer effects vehicles

Junith's says Adeptas Sororitas Infantry, so it would only be the 6++ from Celestine.

Random other thing that's caught my mind... Devout Serenity says that an Overwatch roll of a 5+ is a hit, but is missing the normal Overwatch caveat of 'regardless of BS or hit modifiers'. Does that mean SR gals could Overwatch on a 4+ if you got them a +1 from somewhere?

And thinking of morale; between Light of the Emperor, a Dialogus and a Missionary you could get Ld9 with rerolls and a 4+ save against fleeing. Throw in an occasional MD and it seems like larger sisters units could be pretty safe, which would be useful for OoOML.

And final one; does the 5+ save against MWs from the Ebon Chalice interact with the Celestian Bodyguard rule?

 Grundz wrote:
People keep saying that the invulnerable save boost no longer effects vehicles

That is correct, it doesn't.

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
And thinking of morale; between Light of the Emperor, a Dialogus and a Missionary you could get Ld9 with rerolls and a 4+ save against fleeing. Throw in an occasional MD and it seems like larger sisters units could be pretty safe, which would be useful for OoOML.

Hospitaler has a 6" aura of what is essentially moral immunity that still lets you try to get the 1 MD from rolling a 1 for 1cp. Specifically it lets you ignore casualties for the purposes of morale.

A.T. wrote:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
Another thing to consider is that the new Blessed Blade has the same stats as the old Blade of Admonition

D3 wounds rather than 3 wounds (the relic blade is still in there).

its a nice addiiton though - quite a few nice bits and pieces throughout

Raulengrin wrote:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
And thinking of morale; between Light of the Emperor, a Dialogus and a Missionary you could get Ld9 with rerolls and a 4+ save against fleeing. Throw in an occasional MD and it seems like larger sisters units could be pretty safe, which would be useful for OoOML.

Hospitaler has a 6" aura of what is essentially moral immunity that still lets you try to get the 1 MD from rolling a 1 for 1cp. Specifically it lets you ignore casualties for the purposes of morale.

It's a stratagem, not an aura, so it's once per phase and requires a CP.

Edit: lol. My phone auto corrected aura as Au'ra! Guess I've been playing too much FFXIV!

Taikishi wrote:

Raulengrin wrote:

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
And thinking of morale; between Light of the Emperor, a Dialogus and a Missionary you could get Ld9 with rerolls and a 4+ save against fleeing. Throw in an occasional MD and it seems like larger sisters units could be pretty safe, which would be useful for OoOML.

Hospitaler has a 6" aura of what is essentially moral immunity that still lets you try to get the 1 MD from rolling a 1 for 1cp. Specifically it lets you ignore casualties for the purposes of morale.

It's a stratagem, not an aura, so it's once per phase and requires a CP.

Edit: lol. My phone auto corrected aura as Au'ra! Guess I've been playing too much FFXIV!

It is both. Yes, it only lasts for that phase, but it is also all units within 6" of her for the duration of the phase.

Can anyone confirm if miracle dice are locked to sisters of battle only units

Can I play a mixed army with sisters and use miracle dice to affect say guard or Admech dice?

So, I've begun executing on my plan, picking up some old metal multi-meltas.

I'll post a theoretical list with how I expect it to operate sometime later today, methinks - and no, not a full-up army list (that'd go in the army list section) but rather units and capabilities with analysis.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Can anyone confirm if miracle dice are locked to sisters of battle only units

Only models with the 'act of faith' ability.

@A.T

Yeah I figured it would be that or ‘ordo’ etc

There goes my dreams of guaranteed Taranis zombie knights haha

Cheers

Am I reading correctly that Canonesses cannot take combi-weapons?

Or am I missing something?

As far as I can tell you're correct.

You can swap the bolt pistol for any pistol or a Condemner Boltgun; or you can swap the bolt pistol and chainsword for a bolter and power sword (gain a Rod of Office); or swap the Chainsword for a power sword or Blessed Blade.

So unless I've also missed something, no combi weapons

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
As far as I can tell you're correct.

You can swap the bolt pistol for any pistol or a Condemner Boltgun; or you can swap the bolt pistol and chainsword for a bolter and power sword (gain a Rod of Office); or swap the Chainsword for a power sword or Blessed Blade.

So unless I've also missed something, no combi weapons

Oof. GW wants me to saw lots and lots of metal, at least once they boot the Index options away...

Boy.. I just caught up on the weekend news and I gotta say, out of all of it, the only part that resonated with me was the dominons lack of passing vanguard to vehicles. If it's true then SobMech is toast and we're left again with foot slogging. I don't want to scream the sky is falling, but if our only seriously competitive build is the Jancoran method of attrition then I guess my SoB games will be few and far between.

Well, I see a lot of new models that scream "that's just silly, play us instead if that bothers you".

 Jancoran wrote:
Well, I see a lot of new models that scream "that's just silly, play us instead if that bothers you".

I'm definitely going to build a half dozen pengines and 3 new exorcists. But I also see my boxed set going on ebay.

 Jancoran wrote:
Well, I see a lot of new models that scream "that's just silly, play us instead if that bothers you".

The problem is that even our good units are pretty mediocre compared to what Marines, Any flavor of eldar, daemons, tau, CSM post PA2, Tsons, guard, knights, chaos knights, Orkz and GSC bring to the table.

I mean, penitent engines and mortifiers are just worse assault centurions for 14pts+ more than assault centurions, and they're the best we got.

We're sitting with DA, BA, SW, Admech, Necrons, Nids, and Grey knights right now except we are guaranteed to be the last to see an update. We've got at least a year and change before we see fixes MAYBE in next years chapter approved.

Until then, mech sisters is dead, Jancoran's attrition build no longer has a way to keep it's long range firepower alive, and penitent horde has no way to deal with flyers and loses a full unit per gun to a leviathan.

If you're after the resilience for the long range firepower, couldn't you take a Valorous Heart Spearhead detachment?

Canoness, Imagifier, three Exorcists. Choose the AP negating tale for the Imagifier. Do whatever you want for the Canoness, as she's only there for legal reasons.

Compared to the old castle, it's as resilient to AP0, more resilient to AP-1 and -2. That's a fairly substantial swathe of weaponry, and that not even taking into account the FNP it gets if it fails.

The absolute worst they can get is 6+ 6+, which is 11/36 compared to a 5++ at 12/36.

So I'd argue that not only is the Castle alive and well, you can do it without Celestine and your Warlord now.

Hoc Est Bellum wrote:
If you're after the resilience for the long range firepower, couldn't you take a Valorous Heart Spearhead detachment?

Canoness, Imagifier, three Exorcists. Choose the AP negating tale for the Imagifier. Do whatever you want for the Canoness, as she's only there for legal reasons.

Compared to the old castle, it's as resilient to AP0, more resilient to AP-1 and -2. That's a fairly substantial swathe of weaponry, and that not even taking into account the FNP it gets if it fails.

The absolute worst they can get is 6+ 6+, which is 11/36 compared to a 5++ at 12/36.

So I'd argue that not only is the Castle alive and well, you can do it without Celestine and your Warlord now.

a canoness with the pistol relic can get some work done for 45pts
the only reason I'm not sold on this, is I really havent payed attention to how much firepower that may be aimed at my exo's is ap 1/2

I'm a bit bummed that tanks lost the 4++. 170 points for an exorcist that is too tall to ever hide just doesn't feel worth it. Any marine list will shoot it off the board turn 1.

If Dominions did lose their scout move in tanks thats a real shame too. It takes them from a must take to an after thought.

It seems like Mech Sisters (which was our only/best/main) build for 12+ years is gone. RIP. Thats a really bad oversite and it makes me think the devs just didn't get the feel/flavor of sisters.

That being said it seems like they Seraphim/Zerahpim are once again all stars. I do wonder if 60x S(Z)seraphim is viable. Ignoring -2 modifiers and a 4++ is pretty good and can play the mission pretty well.

I'm tempted to run a mix of 2-3 orders to fill out/handle various tasks.

I'm excited to play the new book but from a first glance it feels somewhat worse than the Beta (and the Beta isn't good). At best (at first glance) it feels like lateral move in power.

Time well tell. I hope I'm not overreacting/thinking things without having the book in hand and playing no games. I'll be sure post some battle reports/tournament reports once I have a few.

 deviantduck wrote:
Boy.. I just caught up on the weekend news and I gotta say, out of all of it, the only part that resonated with me was the dominons lack of passing vanguard to vehicles. If it's true then SobMech is toast and we're left again with foot slogging. I don't want to scream the sky is falling, but if our only seriously competitive build is the Jancoran method of attrition then I guess my SoB games will be few and far between.

My sentiments exactly

ERJAK wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Well, I see a lot of new models that scream "that's just silly, play us instead if that bothers you".

The problem is that even our good units are pretty mediocre compared to what Marines, Any flavor of eldar, daemons, tau, CSM post PA2, Tsons, guard, knights, chaos knights, Orkz and GSC bring to the table.

I mean, penitent engines and mortifiers are just worse assault centurions for 14pts+ more than assault centurions, and they're the best we got.

We're sitting with DA, BA, SW, Admech, Necrons, Nids, and Grey knights right now except we are guaranteed to be the last to see an update. We've got at least a year and change before we see fixes MAYBE in next years chapter approved.

Until then, mech sisters is dead, Jancoran's attrition build no longer has a way to keep it's long range firepower alive, and penitent horde has no way to deal with flyers and loses a full unit per gun to a leviathan.

Comparison is always a road to unhappiness. You gotta get over that and control what you can. You cant help that something THEY have is awesome., You need to kill it. The mission doesnt change. I am sad that they went this way on some things, but other things seem to hold promise indeed. So... Consider that the killing power we have is FAR more assured now. What used to take a SIX melta shots to get through can be done in three. The economy of our killing power changed.