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 Apple Peel wrote:
Excellent! When nobody mentions Militarum Tempestus explicitly and we can survive by our unfortunate rolling-into the IG codex.

I mean, you were your own thing for less than an edition, and everything was replicated in our book too. It also wasn't like they were new at the time either; they were a single IG auxiliary unit that they decided to make a 5-unit codex consisting entirely of a tiny selection of IG models for a short blip in time.

Ideally, I wouldn't want to squat any faction, but chances are Space Wolves would be on my "purge" list due to how flanderized they are in the fluff at this point and they may as well by called "Space Hypocrites" rather than wolves given how many damn rules they break "cause reasons" with little to no drawbacks.

I would not get rid of Space Wolves, but I'd love to press the reset button on them. Wolfy-wolf-wolf-ice-murder-wolf is not a theme.

Like others, Tau and Necrons still feel new to me. At least Necrons have been worked into the Eldar lore a bit though. Despite their newness, I no longer want to get rid of Tau, but I feel like they need to have something to make them more interesting. They just don't feel as embedded in the lore as almost everything else. Only Tyranids seem similarly unembedded.

 Fifty wrote:
I would not get rid of Space Wolves, but I'd love to press the reset button on them. Wolfy-wolf-wolf-ice-murder-wolf is not a theme.

Like others, Tau and Necrons still feel new to me. At least Necrons have been worked into the Eldar lore a bit though. Despite their newness, I no longer want to get rid of Tau, but I feel like they need to have something to make them more interesting. They just don't feel as embedded in the lore as almost everything else. Only Tyranids seem similarly unembedded.

Personally id love to see them go full ham on the wolf wolf frost claw but for all the other loyalest and traitors.

mostly because vanilla sucks and id love to see all the cool and unique stuff the other chapters could get. so many cool things could be done with the iron hands, sallys, sister fisters, white scars, raven guard. like throw them a bone. one unique unit or vehicle that fits their theme.

the smurfs can stay vanilla though as they have like the best range of models as well as a primearch.

I already made my list but boy the Tau hate. What exactly about them deserves so much ire? Sure they are gunliney in game, few like that. But fluffwise what exactly is the issue here. Not everything needs to be Imperium/Chaos 24/7 for me.

 Castozor wrote:
I already made my list but boy the Tau hate. What exactly about them deserves so much ire? Sure they are gunliney in game, few like that. But fluffwise what exactly is the issue here. Not everything needs to be Imperium/Chaos 24/7 for me.

Nothing wrong with them in fluff other than marysueism so far. other than general hearsay about castration and servitude (which iirc wasnt cannon and or a dark heresy thing) they are very....... boring. i just hope they set them up for some sort of significant fall like a mini men of iron or a significantly play with farsite in a sort of ideological yin yang thing. or for them to go very deep into the dark side of the greater good. genocide, coercion, exploitation and stuff to keep the empire running.


in game. everyone complains about gunlines. both guard and tau eat a lot of hate.

gunlines are horrifically uninteractive, its like you guys arent even playing the same game which is set up for both shooting moving asssaulting psykers and heros.

Tau. And purely from an artistic point of view. Shooting from a safe distance is a perfectly sound and reasonable tactic.

They look so incredibly out of place in the 40k universe. So achingly and obviously trying to be Japanese Robots of the late 70s and early 80s.

There may come a time when they seem retro-cool, but as of right now they look as ridiculous as playing a pokemon card at a poker tournament.

If the Tau appearance were developed further, brutalised and evolved to the harsh realities 40k, I feel they would be much improved. Lose some (but not all) of those clean lines and break them up with a bit more tech - adaptations that look like a desperately aggressive reaction to the forces pitted against them.

Fluff wise: Have the race overreach (again!), get their butts kicked, then come back stronger with nastier weaponry and a more belligerent appearance. Or Squat them, either would be for the greater good.

 CodeKantorBlue wrote:
Tau. And purely from an artistic point of view. Shooting from a safe distance is a perfectly sound and reasonable tactic.

They look so incredibly out of place in the 40k universe. So achingly and obviously trying to be Japanese Robots of the late 70s and early 80s.

There may come a time when they seem retro-cool, but as of right now they look as ridiculous as playing a pokemon card at a poker tournament.

If the Tau appearance were developed further, brutalised and evolved to the harsh realities 40k, I feel they would be much improved. Lose some (but not all) of those clean lines and break them up with a bit more tech - adaptations that look like a desperately aggressive reaction to the forces pitted against them.

Fluff wise: Have the race overreach (again!), get their butts kicked, then come back stronger with nastier weaponry and a more belligerent appearance. Or Squat them, either would be for the greater good.

From an artistic point of view, the idea that all armies must have the same theme and comparable aesthetic is extremely dull in my opinion. each faction should have its own unique aesthetic. When I look at Taus, they relate pretty well with Craftworld Eldar design and the two do mesh together fairly well with the exception of the battlesuits who look more Imperial.

epronovost wrote:

 CodeKantorBlue wrote:
Tau. And purely from an artistic point of view. Shooting from a safe distance is a perfectly sound and reasonable tactic.

They look so incredibly out of place in the 40k universe. So achingly and obviously trying to be Japanese Robots of the late 70s and early 80s.

There may come a time when they seem retro-cool, but as of right now they look as ridiculous as playing a pokemon card at a poker tournament.

If the Tau appearance were developed further, brutalised and evolved to the harsh realities 40k, I feel they would be much improved. Lose some (but not all) of those clean lines and break them up with a bit more tech - adaptations that look like a desperately aggressive reaction to the forces pitted against them.

Fluff wise: Have the race overreach (again!), get their butts kicked, then come back stronger with nastier weaponry and a more belligerent appearance. Or Squat them, either would be for the greater good.

From an artistic point of view, the idea that all armies must have the same theme and comparable aesthetic is extremely dull in my opinion. each faction should have its own unique aesthetic. When I look at Taus, they relate pretty well with Craftworld Eldar design and the two do mesh together fairly well with the exception of the battlesuits who look more Imperial.

I agree. its not like nids look the same as space marines, or eldar. necrons are way different from tau. but guardsmen compared to other regiments are similar because they are supposed to be. even some cross over in the imperium and chaos in general.

same with double eldars.

personally i think its a good thing tau is so ascetically unique. its hard to mistake them for anything else. same with most armies which is good game design.

 Castozor wrote:
I already made my list but boy the Tau hate. What exactly about them deserves so much ire? Sure they are gunliney in game, few like that. But fluffwise what exactly is the issue here. Not everything needs to be Imperium/Chaos 24/7 for me.

Apart from how they play, I've just never really accepted them since they were first released. To me they just don't seem to fit the general setting, whereas the other Xenos factions do. Tyranids are galaxy devouring H.R. Geiger xenomorphs. GSC are genetically infected pawns of the xenomorphs, which is an awesome idea. Orks and Eldar/Dark Eldar are fitting because 40k is fantasy in space. Necrons have had a rocky history but they tie in with the backstory and are cool thematically. Tau are a faction of naive, but ostensibly well-intentioned, anime space communists without the patent flaws that the other factions have. If they had a more explicit moral dilemma in their backstory or the way they functioned they would gel a bit more for me.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
Excellent! When nobody mentions Militarum Tempestus explicitly and we can survive by our unfortunate rolling-into the IG codex.

I mean, you were your own thing for less than an edition, and everything was replicated in our book too. It also wasn't like they were new at the time either; they were a single IG auxiliary unit that they decided to make a 5-unit codex consisting entirely of a tiny selection of IG models for a short blip in time.

Codex: Stormtroopers? Yeah, that was dumb. They made much more sense as part of the IG and Inquisition.

OTOH, Codex: Knights is even fewer model kits, right? At least they're BIG!

I guess I can see how mary seu-ism runs a bit rampant in the Tau but eh, I'm fine with it since the added more sinister elements to the Ethereals. Not every faction has to be grim-dark all the time. Big reason why I chose Orks to be my first army was because there at least there was some of the humour and charm that attracted me to 40K in the first place.
As for the Gundam part, granted but I like it when not every faction is the same and (personal bias granted) I like big stompy robots.

 Fifty wrote:
I would not get rid of Space Wolves, but I'd love to press the reset button on them. Wolfy-wolf-wolf-ice-murder-wolf is not a theme.

Like others, Tau and Necrons still feel new to me. At least Necrons have been worked into the Eldar lore a bit though. Despite their newness, I no longer want to get rid of Tau, but I feel like they need to have something to make them more interesting. They just don't feel as embedded in the lore as almost everything else. Only Tyranids seem similarly unembedded.

Are you referring to he who hails from the planet Omnicide; Murderfang whose Murderlust drives him to murder enemies with his Murderclaws?

For those unaware: no, I did not make that up.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
That said, above all others, it would probably have to be Space Wolves. I love the concept of the nordic power armored super soldier. However they suffer not only from irredeemably poorly written and directly contradictory fluff, but they've taken the wolf theme motif and run it right past the line of parody, jumped over the shark, and straight into the ground. Everything about them reads like some 13 year old's bad fanfic of their custom chapter. Everything that gets released for them just ends up looking...stupid and goofy.

Say what?

Am I the only one who sees that pose immediately thinks of this:

Tyranids. The biotech trope is even sillier than many other things 40K does, and that's saying something. It's a crappy way of making weapons, it's a suicidal way of making ships and it's just generally stupid to grow stuff instead of build them. Yes yes, some specialized forms might be superior to a human - but we're not a major species due to specialization, we're a major species because we're generalists. Specialization is for insects. A human can pick up anything from a pistol to a nuke and deploy it, a tyranid has whatever the Idiot Fleet gave it and if it's not useful then bad luck.

There's no universe where those things could get anywhere.

Spetulhu wrote:
Specialization is for insects.

That's kind of the idea, isn't it?

Too many to quote regarding the earlier post but I am following the brief of the thread "If a faction had to bite the dust", I do not genuinely believe the Tau should be removed. It is that the Tau has never once tempted me to open my wallet the way Marines (both Loyalist & Chaos), Orks, Genestealers, Eldar, IG and assorted other Chaos units have.

I agree uniqueness is a virtue. Unique can still also be fitting the whole theme or in the case of Tau visually (imho) generally not. Anyone who loves them for that is also not in the wrong.

Skaven in 40k would have been an awesome fit. I look at some of the Skaven figures and wish they were. I mean look at these bad boys https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Stormfiends
Skaven not being in 40k is a cynical attempt aimed at me personally to buy into multiple franchises.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
That said, above all others, it would probably have to be Space Wolves. I love the concept of the nordic power armored super soldier. However they suffer not only from irredeemably poorly written and directly contradictory fluff, but they've taken the wolf theme motif and run it right past the line of parody, jumped over the shark, and straight into the ground. Everything about them reads like some 13 year old's bad fanfic of their custom chapter. Everything that gets released for them just ends up looking...stupid and goofy.

Say what?

It's amazing how those models took me from loving Wulfen to wishing they'd never been a thing.

Drukhari for sure. Just merge them with the Ynnari. All of Commorragh goes to hell and the survivors join the Ynnari.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
Excellent! When nobody mentions Militarum Tempestus explicitly and we can survive by our unfortunate rolling-into the IG codex.

I mean, you were your own thing for less than an edition, and everything was replicated in our book too. It also wasn't like they were new at the time either; they were a single IG auxiliary unit that they decided to make a 5-unit codex consisting entirely of a tiny selection of IG models for a short blip in time.

Codex: Stormtroopers? Yeah, that was dumb. They made much more sense as part of the IG and Inquisition.

OTOH, Codex: Knights is even fewer model kits, right? At least they're BIG!

I think the stormtroopers thing is a bit dated. That’s who they replaced, yes, but besides that tactic, I think they have developed more of a “special forces” thing. They get used as stormtroopers, but that shouldn’t be their whole MO.

 vipoid wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
That said, above all others, it would probably have to be Space Wolves. I love the concept of the nordic power armored super soldier. However they suffer not only from irredeemably poorly written and directly contradictory fluff, but they've taken the wolf theme motif and run it right past the line of parody, jumped over the shark, and straight into the ground. Everything about them reads like some 13 year old's bad fanfic of their custom chapter. Everything that gets released for them just ends up looking...stupid and goofy.

Say what?

Am I the only one who sees that pose immediately thinks of this:

Spoiler:

Damnit Vipoid, now I can't unsee it... TOKOUENTAI!

I don't understand the point of threads like this honestly. Personal preference aside, the *ONLY* faction who's demise would impact the setting on any serious level is the Imperium of Man. Eldar/Deldar/Clowns, Orks, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Tyranids... none of them actually have any influence on the galaxy except "they kill humans/destroy human worlds". Only Daemons seem mandatory, due to the warp being inexplicably tied with real-space.

That's just fluff though. Mechanically, I'd probably merge all marines into one codex and all factions that aren't Marines, Imperial Guard and Mechanicus into "Adeptus Auxillaries" codex.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I don't understand the point of threads like this honestly. Personal preference aside, the *ONLY* faction who's demise would impact the setting on any serious level is the Imperium of Man. Eldar/Deldar/Clowns, Orks, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Tyranids... none of them actually have any influence on the galaxy except "they kill humans/destroy human worlds". Only Daemons seem mandatory, due to the warp being inexplicably tied with real-space.

That's just fluff though. Mechanically, I'd probably merge all marines into one codex and all factions that aren't Marines, Imperial Guard and Mechanicus into "Adeptus Auxillaries" codex.

As a thought experiement, I have considered a Codex Imperum in which all the factions of the Imperium would be regrouped while slashing a massive number of redundant unit choices. It was fairly interesting.

pm713 wrote:

It's amazing how those models took me from loving Wulfen to wishing they'd never been a thing.

Same. Wolves were one of my first armies. I had a couple squads of correctly colored Dark Angels in RT, but I picked up wolves in 2nd with the first codex. At the time those Wulfen came out, I was pondering bringing the Wolves back. Those absurdly terrible Wulfen models slammed my interest on all the Wolfy mcWolf-face nonsense permanently. I honestly liked them better when they were just a standard chapter like everyone else, and ultramarines were the silly ones with half-eldar and renegade leaders.

One of the marine fractions. Blood/Dark Angels or Space Wolves. Any of them could be rolled into ths marine codex.

epronovost wrote:
@Thread

Sometime I feel alone in loving Tau, their place in the fluff and their giant suits. I think they look awesome. I could do with more Kroot and have them be decent in CC again for some extra flexibility in gameplay.

I feel you, not super fond of the big suits, but Tau are still amongst my favorite factions.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Excellent! When nobody mentions Militarum Tempestus explicitly and we can survive by our unfortunate rolling-into the IG codex.

Oh no why did you had to jinx it


OT, Orks, they have nothing that interest me.

Get rid of all space marines.
It'll improve the games interest value tenfold.

Tau do seem to be in a weird place. Almost everyone I know has tried to start a Tau army and vey few of them have got past painting one or two models. They're also probably the easiest to get rid of from a fluff point of view as they're the smallest of the main factions in the game.

From a gameplay perspective I think consolidation would probably be better than removal, though I do think a lot of the mini factions in the Imperium are going too far. I'd have preferred armies like Custodes and Grey Knights to not be a thing and the same for Assassins, but if I had to choose one it'd probably be Knights just because I think it's ridiculous in a game the scale of 40k to have an army that's entirely super-heavy vehicles.

Grey knights. Thy are supposed to be an ultra secret arm of the inquisition, basically. Normal peolle who are even around them are supposedly killed to keep their secrecy. They are not supposed to be a standard army but daemon hunters. The belong as a special force fit fighting daemons.

Wasn't that retconned in 5th Ed. handwavium to state that they'll fight other forces to prevent a predicted daemonic incursion?