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 Mmmpi wrote:


Apparently it is rocket science.

Guard have better long ranged guns, and twice the wounds.
If that's what you need, that's what you take.

If you need massive short ranged fire power, and psychic defense, you take the sisters. 215 points for four DtW attempts?

If you need repair stuff and mid ranged fire power, take the AdMech.

The latter two are both more durable per wound than guardsmen.

If your army however is a knight and three smash captains, the bonus wounds are more useful. It's all a trade off, and people chose cheap easy to kill bodies.

This is just nonsense. Half of what you're saying is not even true, and the other half obviously isn't worth it, as people are not taking these other things. It is undeniable that guard brings more value for its points than these other detachments.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mmmpi wrote:I'll I got from this is that you're acting like an elitist prick because I don't use your specific app of choice.

Until you decide to remove your head from your butt, we are done.

PS: I win.

Put yourself in my shoes. Imagine you knew something for a fact but I kept denying it, asking for a source and then didn't know the source when it was provided. You'd get frustrated too I suspect.

That's the problem. You just described my situation in our discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Almost like there should be a minimum cost per troop wound for Imperial soup and that 4 ppm is too low right?

No, it's almost like people chose more wounds as a trade off over something else.

Nah, if you want to repair stuff, you don't play tournaments, because nothing gets repaired.

If you want massive short range firepower and DTW attempts, you take a guard brigade, which has 120 S3 AP- attacks within 12 +9d6 S4 Ap- attacks that ignore LOS and have range = board, 3 DTW attempts that can also be 3 smites, and costs 609 points.

15 sisters with reroll aura do not outdamage 30 guardsmen with FRFSRF. At any range. Try again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, lol@ "more durable per wound."

Because that's a thing people consider, right? it's why Terminators are the best units in the game.

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:


Apparently it is rocket science.

Guard have better long ranged guns, and twice the wounds.
If that's what you need, that's what you take.

If you need massive short ranged fire power, and psychic defense, you take the sisters. 215 points for four DtW attempts?

If you need repair stuff and mid ranged fire power, take the AdMech.

The latter two are both more durable per wound than guardsmen.

If your army however is a knight and three smash captains, the bonus wounds are more useful. It's all a trade off, and people chose cheap easy to kill bodies.

This is just nonsense. Half of what you're saying is not even true, and the other half obviously isn't worth it, as people are not taking these other things. It is undeniable that guard brings more value for its points than these other detachments.

Of course it's not worth it to the people not taking it. ...I flat out said people were choosing wounds over the other cheap options. But that's because it's what the current meta feels it needs.

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

No, I said more bodies.

Fifteen sisters actually have more fire power and both have more durability per model. Actually, AdMech probably have more firepower as well. But It's the bodies that people value right now.

Then that's better value!

This is not rocket science, if you can choose from all the troop choices of the Imperium, but one is almost always chosen over the others by the top end competitive players, then that troop choice is (for whatever reason) clearly the best! It brings more value for its points than other options. It is undercosted compared to the others.

Apparently it is rocket science.

Guard have better long ranged guns, and twice the wounds.
If that's what you need, that's what you take.

If you need massive short ranged fire power, and psychic defense, you take the sisters. 215 points for four DtW attempts?

If you need repair stuff and mid ranged fire power, take the AdMech.

The latter two are both more durable per wound than guardsmen.

If your army however is a knight and three smash captains, the bonus wounds are more useful. It's all a trade off, and people chose cheap easy to kill bodies.

I also proffer the “Schola 17” and it variations.
The cheapest version at 205, with two lord Commissars and three MSU Scion squads
The most expensive at 220, with two Tempestor Primes, only one has Command rod, and three MSU Scion squads
This deepstrikes to grab enemy objective and hold them.

 Mmmpi wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

My guess is that it's the body count over all. The guard however to have access to longer ranged weapons, meaning they can camp backfield objectives better.

Both sisters and Admech are only fielding 17 models, as opposed to 32. Officers are more combat oriented then Techpriests, and techpriests can't fix stuff outside of IG or AdMech. Officers are cheaper than a canoness, and have options, unlike the current Missionary.

So you're saying that the Guard are better for their points than other alternatives? Almost like they were too cheap for what they bring!

No, I said more bodies.

Fifteen sisters actually have more fire power and both have more durability per model. Actually, AdMech probably have more firepower as well. But It's the bodies that people value right now.

This is the most hilariously short-sighted way of looking at this, that I'm not even certain how to respond to it.

Are you actually trying to say that orders should be discounted for the guard detachments when you take two company commanders in every one?

against nearly any target, Guard+2CCs with FRFSRF outdamage:

15 skitarii rangers
15 tau firewarriors (assuming Tau are in range of the Cadre Fireblades they brought with AND the fireblades got 1 markerlight on their target)
15 marine scouts (assuming the scouts have a captain aura)
15 sisters of battle (assuming the sisters have the same aura from one of their canonesses)
30 GSC neophytes
30 Termagants
30 grots+2 smites from weirdboyz
15 kabalites in an archon aura (and even if they have the reroll 1 to wound aura relic too)

and obviously, all the min detachments that don't shoot at all, of which there are several.

and this damage gap comes along with the fact that the loyal 32 are often 2/3 to 1/2 as expensive as many competing detachments.

Then why did you respond?

But I suppose you want an actual answer to your wondering.

When did I say orders should be discounted? RF2 las guns don't really equal the damage on heavier things compared to two meltas and a combi-plasma.

I think you're also forgetting all the other abilities those units have besides raw firepower.

Please explain what extra abilities they have as your soo confident that top competitive lists are clearly not using the best options in the game?

You still haven't actually answered the point that for the points (the only metric that actually matter) guard out damage and or out last almost every other faction.
That is a balance problem.
No army can be harder to kill and do more damage for a given amount of points in the game without being detrimental to the balance of the game.

Lemondish wrote:
To better reflect the massive, inescapably slow bureaucracy and overhead of managing a force the size of the Astra Militarum, with it's countless soldiers and innumerable apparatus of war, I propose all AM detachments award only half the CP they normally would (rounding up).

Monoguard players won't notice because it wasn't like they were using those CP for guard strats anyway

I think that's fine... Or honestly, you could take some of the absurd ppm suggestions throughout the thread and just implement them for any guardsmen taken in an army that isn't pure guard. In most games though I find myself with more than enough CP so cutting it in half is absolutely fine

 Mmmpi wrote:

Of course it's not worth it to the people not taking it. ...I flat out said people were choosing wounds over the other cheap options. But that's because it's what the current meta feels it needs.

Then those wounds are too cheap! (Also, you keep ignoring the fact that guard can outdamage and out move the alternatives. You're making up strengths for the other options that do not actually exist.)

 Mmmpi wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Mmmpi wrote:I'll I got from this is that you're acting like an elitist prick because I don't use your specific app of choice.

Until you decide to remove your head from your butt, we are done.

PS: I win.

Put yourself in my shoes. Imagine you knew something for a fact but I kept denying it, asking for a source and then didn't know the source when it was provided. You'd get frustrated too I suspect.

That's the problem. You just described my situation in our discussion.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Almost like there should be a minimum cost per troop wound for Imperial soup and that 4 ppm is too low right?

No, it's almost like people chose more wounds as a trade off over something else.

Unbelievable.

The problem is, my blissfully and completely unaware friend, that there is no tradeoff for those extra wounds. Those extra wounds are also dealing more damage and cost less than the alternatives.

Feel free to join us in reality whenever you like. I'll be waiting metaphysical arms spread wide to welcome you.

You guys do realize a major problem with the data you were talking about right?

Until two or three weeks ago, guard *were* the cheapest battalion.

To say no one takes the AdMech 17 or Faithful 17 to tournaments is self evident - they weren't cheaper till a bit ago. Now that they are, I suspect they might go up in popularity.

I know my superheavy tanks are using an IG bn AND an AdMech BN. :p

Blood of kittens simply reorganizes BCP data, so using one or the other is actualy using the same source.

For data you can use Downunderpairings, that one should include both ITC and not ITC events.

 Mmmpi wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

My guess is that it's the body count over all. The guard however to have access to longer ranged weapons, meaning they can camp backfield objectives better.

Both sisters and Admech are only fielding 17 models, as opposed to 32. Officers are more combat oriented then Techpriests, and techpriests can't fix stuff outside of IG or AdMech. Officers are cheaper than a canoness, and have options, unlike the current Missionary.

So you're saying that the Guard are better for their points than other alternatives? Almost like they were too cheap for what they bring!

No, I said more bodies.

Fifteen sisters actually have more fire power and both have more durability per model. Actually, AdMech probably have more firepower as well. But It's the bodies that people value right now.

This is the most hilariously short-sighted way of looking at this, that I'm not even certain how to respond to it.

Are you actually trying to say that orders should be discounted for the guard detachments when you take two company commanders in every one?

against nearly any target, Guard+2CCs with FRFSRF outdamage:

15 skitarii rangers
15 tau firewarriors (assuming Tau are in range of the Cadre Fireblades they brought with AND the fireblades got 1 markerlight on their target)
15 marine scouts (assuming the scouts have a captain aura)
15 sisters of battle (assuming the sisters have the same aura from one of their canonesses)
30 GSC neophytes
30 Termagants
30 grots+2 smites from weirdboyz
15 kabalites in an archon aura (and even if they have the reroll 1 to wound aura relic too)

and obviously, all the min detachments that don't shoot at all, of which there are several.

and this damage gap comes along with the fact that the loyal 32 are often 2/3 to 1/2 as expensive as many competing detachments.

Then why did you respond?

But I suppose you want an actual answer to your wondering.

When did I say orders should be discounted? RF2 las guns don't really equal the damage on heavier things compared to two meltas and a combi-plasma.

I think you're also forgetting all the other abilities those units have besides raw firepower.

What detachment here has 2 meltas and a combi-plasma? The sisters one? Because that's not a 215 point detachment, that's a 332 point detachment. And it does do more damage against vehicles within 12". For the points, it does...a bit more than twice as much more.

For the points, guard lasguns do a little less than half as much damage versus TANKS

as MELTA GUNS.

 Mmmpi wrote:

Fifteen sisters actually have more fire power and both have more durability per model.

You keep saying "more durability per model" or "more durability per wound" but why does that matter if the competing option has more durability per point?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You guys do realize a major problem with the data you were talking about right?

Until two or three weeks ago, guard *were* the cheapest battalion.

To say no one takes the AdMech 17 or Faithful 17 to tournaments is self evident - they weren't cheaper till a bit ago. Now that they are, I suspect they might go up in popularity.

I know my superheavy tanks are using an IG bn AND an AdMech BN. :p

Faithful 17 is not cheaper.

Let's just say I...strongly suspect that the guard battalion having twice the durability, twice the firepower, twice the movement range and twice the screening footprint will probably be worth 15 points to most tournament players.

the_scotsman wrote:
Nah, if you want to repair stuff, you don't play tournaments, because nothing gets repaired.

If you want massive short range firepower and DTW attempts, you take a guard brigade, which has 120 S3 AP- attacks within 12 +9d6 S4 Ap- attacks that ignore LOS and have range = board, 3 DTW attempts that can also be 3 smites, and costs 609 points.

15 sisters with reroll aura do not outdamage 30 guardsmen with FRFSRF. At any range. Try again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, lol@ "more durable per wound."

Because that's a thing people consider, right? it's why Terminators are the best units in the game.

Math.

Assuming rapid fire range, firing on marines in the open. The guard squads have a Plasma gun and a mortar.

Lasguns: 5.33
Mortars: .87
Plasma Guns: 2.08
Las pistols. .17
Total dead marines: 8.45


Assuming five sister squads each with two meltas and a combi-plasma (plasma only) against the same marines. Sisters reroll 1's to equate to two officers worth of orders. (canoness, with no other participation)

Plasma 2.78
Melta 3.89
Krak grenades .78
Bolters .78
Total dead marines: 8.22


So yeah. Roughly equivalent shooting. The guard managed to kill 2.99 more points of marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ice_can wrote:

You still haven't actually answered the point that for the points (the only metric that actually matter) guard out damage and or out last almost every other faction.
That is a balance problem.
No army can be harder to kill and do more damage for a given amount of points in the game without being detrimental to the balance of the game.

You didn't see my answer because I was typing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

Of course it's not worth it to the people not taking it. ...I flat out said people were choosing wounds over the other cheap options. But that's because it's what the current meta feels it needs.

Then those wounds are too cheap! (Also, you keep ignoring the fact that guard can outdamage and out move the alternatives. You're making up strengths for the other options that do not actually exist.)

Tell me what I'm making up. Because I can see what I said written in their codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You guys do realize a major problem with the data you were talking about right?

Until two or three weeks ago, guard *were* the cheapest battalion.

To say no one takes the AdMech 17 or Faithful 17 to tournaments is self evident - they weren't cheaper till a bit ago. Now that they are, I suspect they might go up in popularity.

I know my superheavy tanks are using an IG bn AND an AdMech BN. :p

Faithful 17 is not cheaper.

Let's just say I...strongly suspect that the guard battalion having twice the durability, twice the firepower, twice the movement range and twice the screening footprint will probably be worth 15 points to most tournament players.

It's not cheaper. By 35 points.

You are arguing dishonestly in the most blatant way.

Why, in a post where you say "it's not cheaper, by 35 points" presumably referring to the 180 point Guard Battalion and the 215 point sisters battalion, do you give the guard squads a plasma gun and a mortar each and the sisters squads two meltas and a plasma?

None of those things are in the minimum detachments. You're also looking here at 332 points of sisters versus 222 points of guardsmen...and the guardsmen still do more damage, lol.

You have to resort to "versus marines, in a detachment entirely unlike the detachments we're actually talking about, within 12", and with 100 more points, guardsmen only do very slightly more damage" to try and muddy the waters at this point.

Please, keep going, I'm having a wonderful time. Next analyze 600 points of fire warriors vs 180 points of guardsmen at 25" range to prove why fire warriors are better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The minimum sisters of battle detachment is 35 points more, which is 210 points of sisters with BOLTGUNS, not special weapons.

They do less than half as much damage against all targets, at all ranges. They move half as much. They die at a faster rate to all weapons, from lasguns on up. They have half the footprint on the table.

They have one, and exactly one, redeeming feature, which you mentioned: DTW attempts. Imperial Guard can add DTW attempts at 25pts per, if they want them.

I'M still waiting on what magically makes these other factions battalions not totally suck when compaired to the rediculous over performance of guard?

You want to step away from the post button, and find even a shred of evidence to back up that 4ppm guardsmen arn't broken before you die on that hill?

PSA: mmpi's math here is absolute nonsense. For fun, try figuring out how many sisters squads with 2 melta, 1 combi-plasma and 2 boltguns it takes to do those numbers to marines in 12".

The answer is different for each category of weapon.

the_scotsman wrote:
You are arguing dishonestly in the most blatant way.

Why, in a post where you say "it's not cheaper, by 35 points" presumably referring to the 180 point Guard Battalion and the 215 point sisters battalion, do you give the guard squads a plasma gun and a mortar each and the sisters squads two meltas and a plasma?

None of those things are in the minimum detachments. You're also looking here at 332 points of sisters versus 222 points of guardsmen...and the guardsmen still do more damage, lol.

You have to resort to "versus marines, in a detachment entirely unlike the detachments we're actually talking about, within 12", and with 100 more points, guardsmen only do very slightly more damage" to try and muddy the waters at this point.

Please, keep going, I'm having a wonderful time. Next analyze 600 points of fire warriors vs 180 points of guardsmen at 25" range to prove why fire warriors are better.

Stop giving him ideas of weird maths to do!

Also welcome to my hell.

 Mmmpi wrote:

Assuming rapid fire range, firing on marines in the open. The guard squads have a Plasma gun and a mortar.

Lasguns: 5.33
Mortars: .87
Plasma Guns: 2.08
Las pistols. .17
Total dead marines: 8.45


Assuming five sister squads each with two meltas and a combi-plasma (plasma only) against the same marines. Sisters reroll 1's to equate to two officers worth of orders. (canoness, with no other participation)

Plasma 2.78
Melta 3.89
Krak grenades .78
Bolters .78
Total dead marines: 8.22


So yeah. Roughly equivalent shooting. The guard managed to kill 2.99 more points of marines.

You're comparing the damage output of 168pts to 213pts (I'm ignoring the points difference in the HQs which is actually in your favour) so not only do the guardsmen outperform the sisters, they outperform them substantially per point. 0.05wounds per point compared to 0.038 - that's 30% more per point.

And still no response to the comments about your "more durable per wound" nonsense?

Also...wait...the math is just wrong here. He's got the mortar and laspistol numbers from 3 squads of guardsmen, the lasgun numbers are for 4.5 squads of guardsmen, and the plasma gun numbers are for 4 squads of guardsmen.

I think this is all just made up. The sisters are also doing 25% more damage with their plasma than they should be, 25% more with their melta, half as much with their bolters...

Yeah this is all just a fantasy.

 Crimson wrote:

catbarf wrote:

I've been following the last couple of pages of discussion waiting for someone to explain how taking the absolute minimum needed to meet CP requirements, implying that there is no reason to take them besides farming CPs, constitutes using them 'en masse'. At best it sounds like they're the most useful CP-farming choice, which is first and foremost a matter of cheapness rather than anything they do on the table.

So why it is always the Guard and not other factions that can also generate CP cheaply such as SoB or Ad Mech?

Flexibility.

You need them to do more damage? FRFSRF.
You need them to run and gun? FftE.
You need them to fallback and shoot? GBitF.
You need them to be on an objective faster than a bike could be? MMM.
You need them to fight twice? FB.

You want a unit of Catachans to move, shoot with FRFSRF, charge, and then fight twice? You can do that.
You want to put more orders on? Consolidate squads.
You need them to have a 4+ save? Easy.
You want to toss 10 frag grenades with reroll 1s to wound? Sure.

And that doesn't really scratch all that you can do as most people ignore anything outside Cadian and Catachan.

Yep, they can shoot better than the alternatives, they can move faster, they're more durable and they can occupy more of the table. They bring a level of utility that the other options do not have.

Okay-math.

3 Squads of Guardsmen, Mortar, Plasma Gun.
2 Company Commanders (out of range to shoot, in range to order).

3 Squads of Sisters (5-girl), 2 Meltas, Combi-Plas (only Plasma firing).
2 Cannonesses (out of range to shoot, in range for auras).

Guardsmen get FRF,SRF
29 Lasgun shots
3.5 Mortars
2 Plasma

29/2 S3 hits
7/4 S4 hits
1 S8 AP-3 D2 hit

Against MEQ...

29/6 wounds
7/8 wounds
5/6 AP-3 wounds

6.54 dead Marines per Squad

Sisters get RR 1s to-hit.
4 Bolt shots
2 Melta Shots
2 Plasma shots

28/9 bolt hits
14/9 melta hits
14/9 plasma hits

14/9 bolt wounds
35/27 melta wounds
35/27 plasma wounds

2.90 dead Marines per squad

But I do question why MEQ-hunting squads take anti-tank weapons.

Actual "mmpi's weird math comparison" numbers, for the curious.

3 guard squads with plasma+mortar+laspistol because feth free bolters amirite vs marines in rapid fire range:

4.16 las weapons
1.66 plasma guns
.874 mortars
6.694 dead marines.
222 points of guard.

3 sisters squads with melta+combi-plasma in canoness range at rapid fire distance:

0.78 from bolters
2.59 from plasma
3.11 from melta
no krak grenades because they're not in range
6.48 dead marines
332 points of sisters.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay-math.

3 Squads of Guardsmen, Mortar, Plasma Gun.
2 Company Commanders (out of range to shoot, in range to order).

3 Squads of Sisters (5-girl), 2 Meltas, Combi-Plas (only Plasma firing).
2 Cannonesses (out of range to shoot, in range for auras).

Guardsmen get FRF,SRF
29 Lasgun shots
3.5 Mortars
2 Plasma

29/2 S3 hits
7/4 S4 hits
1 S8 AP-3 D2 hit

Against MEQ...

29/6 wounds
7/8 wounds
5/6 AP-3 wounds

6.54 dead Marines per Squad

Sisters get RR 1s to-hit.
4 Bolt shots
2 Melta Shots
2 Plasma shots

28/9 bolt hits
14/9 melta hits
14/9 plasma hits

14/9 bolt wounds
35/27 melta wounds
35/27 plasma wounds

2.90 dead Marines per squad

But I do question why MEQ-hunting squads take anti-tank weapons.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope, try again. You're off on those guard numbers by about 3x. Lasgun shots do not have a 1/6 chance to kill marines, they have a 1/18 chance.

I have a serious question for all the people chomping at the bit for a guardsmen nerf. If guardsmen are so broken and so OP why have we not seen a spam guardsmen list perform at the top of the meta? We know that spam has been taken in guard lists this edition (conscript and hellhound) so its not like its against some internal code. Also, spam, in general, has been incredibly strong we have seen
Cultist Spam
Termigants Spam
Hellhound Spam
PBC Spam
and on and on and on
So where are the 200 guardsmen lists? there's effectively no limit on how many you can take. According to dakka they are always going to be in rapid-fire orders range melting everything on the field and they are utterly unkillable. So why do we see not only other units but other troop units spammed to great effect but not the beyond overpowered guardsmen? Its almost like there real strength is CP generation and that's what we see them for. We saw more of the loyal 32 before the CP generation change and more battalion now but still no actual spam lists.

Honestly curious why we haven't seen it if they are the super soldiers some seem to think they are

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I've already said like a hundred times in this thread that they aren't only taken in minimum sizes to fulfil CP requirements. Are you sure you read the last few pages?

Scotsman also mentioned a cheaper Imperial Battalion in Ad Mech. If cost was the only factor that would be taken instead but it isn't.

Perhaps I'm missing a post, but I haven't seen much evidence of soup players using more than the bare minimum required for CP. Looking through the top ITC lists for October from Blood of Kittens, and feel free to tell me if this is an outlier, I see the following:
Minimum battalion: 5
Minimum brigade: 2
More-than-minimum battalion: 1 (6 Inf + Straken + Priest, so going for that melee blob)
More-than-minimum brigade: 1 (all-Guard list save for a Castellan, took 8 Inf squads)

That doesn't exactly scream 'infantry are great and you should spend lots of points on them' to me, it says that they're the best choice for soup lists to fill battalion/brigade slots. I can absolutely buy that they're the best CP tax available to soup lists, but being the best CP tax doesn't necessarily mean they're brokenly overpowered. It just means that they're the only sub-200pt battalion that actually pulls its own weight (in contrast to, for example, the useless Tech-Priests in AdMech battalions), which is a very different thing from performing above their cost. Kill CP farming and I suspect the number of Guardsmen showing up in tournament-winning lists will drop considerably.

I've said before and feel I should reiterate: I'm strongly in favor of Guardsmen going to 5ppm, and I'm okay with reworking orders to make them a little more subtle/reasonable, since Guardsmen seriously should not be the most flexible infantry in the game. I just don't think this idea that Guard hordes are sweeping the tournament scene is an accurate assessment; they show up in every soup list because they're the best CP battery, and killing that mechanic should cut down on the number of Guardsmen showing up in tournaments. Then we can look at how they actually perform as a unit without this 'they're in 2935% of tournament lists!' baggage muddying the waters.

I'm also not sure why people keep repeating that AdMech have a cheaper battalion. That is only true as of CA a couple of weeks ago, so of course we're not seeing it much in tournaments yet (although one of the winning lists in the link above did actually take an AdMech battalion for CP). Give it time.

It screams "Infantry are better than any *other* IoM chaff".

Infantry are the majority of points in those detatchements. If they didn't want Infantry, they could use just about any other troops. They'ed cost more per CP, but being cheap is the Guardman's schtick.

Here's a joke: Guardsmen are ok at 4ppm.

Here's another joke: Guardsmen at 5ppm are unusable trash.

 Apple Peel wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
To better reflect the massive, inescapably slow bureaucracy and overhead of managing a force the size of the Astra Militarum, with it's countless soldiers and innumerable apparatus of war, I propose all AM detachments award only half the CP they normall would (rounding up).

Monoguard players won't notice because it wasn't like they were using those CP for guard anyway

Could there be an exception for Militarum Tempestus detachments? They are more efficient.

You know, it was a joke, but I see no reason why not. They used to be their own thing after all.