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 Future War Cultist wrote:
Every time you say “try Veganuary and educate yourself”, I’ll eat another mini pork sausage roll.

I got roped into going to a Morrissey concert once, and he played Meat Is Murder. With accompanying footage of an abattoir. It pissed me off to no end. So much so, I went to the food bar to get a chicken and bacon burger with cheese. Because feth him.

I can only hope that in future you don't get so easily triggered by the actions of strangers you claim not to care about, so that you act under your own volition instead of slavishly trying to troll people who, again, you don't know and who don't care about you.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Every time you say “try Veganuary and educate yourself”, I’ll eat another mini pork sausage roll.

I got roped into going to a Morrissey concert once, and he played Meat Is Murder. With accompanying footage of an abattoir. It pissed me off to no end. So much so, I went to the food bar to get a chicken and bacon burger with cheese. Because feth him.

I can only hope that in future you don't get so easily triggered by the actions of strangers you claim not to care about, so that you act under your own volition instead of slavishly trying to troll people who, again, you don't know and who don't care about you.

You seem pretty invested into this conversation.

 Commander Cain wrote:
Also at the rate this thread is going I feel like dakka will soon have a ban on religion, politics, and vegans!

That's because many vegans froth at the mouth in a positively religious manner when pushing their beliefs on others.

From a cookbook series titled "The Encyclopedia of Cookery" an article by Dr. F. Stare, then Chair of the Dept. of Nutrition at Harvard outlined some practical food habits for adults.
Don't be a mere calorie counter.
Enjoy your food.
Don't eat the same food every day.
Don't be misled by food faddists.
Exercise regularly.

He also lists reliable sources for information on food and nutrition as the people who are the authorities on the subject: Your Doctor (should know your medical history), a dietitian, nutritionist, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, The Nutrition Foundation and the American Dietetic Association (both now listed Here - https://www.eatright.org/)

I'm not a vegan and never will be. I frankly need to push myself to eat more vegetables because I dislike most of them.

*Shakes my fist in anger toward the brocoli and mushrooms I will have to eat*

But I do think that a vegan or vegetarian diet is more ethical then a omnivorus diet. On the subject of health, I suppose its easier to have a healthy diet when eating a bit of everything meat included, but most people have more or less unhealthy diets. Many vegans probably have unhealthy diets, but some probably have good ones too.

Man i love both meat and veggis also fungis,

There are way more layers to it than just ethical. unless you are literally picking the food from walking distance from a local farm or your own farm with your own cultivated seeds, you are adding fuel costs to your food, if you are buying most produce, its probably owned by various Monsanto type companies which would have their grubby fingers in most live stock companies as well, indirectly supporting the "suffering of animals"

its a deep rabbit hole. not that you cant do it all on your own but dont think its easy.

 helgrenze wrote:

He also lists reliable sources for information on food and nutrition as the people who are the authorities on the subject: Your Doctor (should know your medical history), a dietitian, nutritionist, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, The Nutrition Foundation and the American Dietetic Association (both now listed Here - https://www.eatright.org/)

I actually wouldn't trust a regulatory agency or professional association's official position on much, because they're very easily swayed by special interests. Often, their official guidelines are approved by a small board of administrators without any input from their actual professional membership, which is how you end up with absurdities like the food pyramid. Your individual doctor or nutritionist, who may be a member of such an organization, should be able to steer you the right way, however.

 Luciferian wrote:

 helgrenze wrote:

He also lists reliable sources for information on food and nutrition as the people who are the authorities on the subject: Your Doctor (should know your medical history), a dietitian, nutritionist, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture, The Nutrition Foundation and the American Dietetic Association (both now listed Here - https://www.eatright.org/)

I actually wouldn't trust a regulatory agency or professional association's official position on much, because they're very easily swayed by special interests. Often, their official guidelines are approved by a small board of administrators without any input from their actual professional membership, which is how you end up with absurdities like the food pyramid. Your individual doctor or nutritionist, who may be a member of such an organization, should be able to steer you the right way, however.

Here's the kicker....
That advice hasn't really changed much since it was first published,
in 1966.

I mean obviously a diet that includes some meat is going to be more nutritious than one without but it is fairly easy to substitute that stuff with other proteins once you get into the swing of things. I don't have any issue with what anyone else chooses to eat (though I fail to see the appeal of stuff like MacDonalds ) and would never tell someone to change their lifestyle but trying out being veggie/vegan even for a week isn't gonna kill anyone. At the very least you might get to try out some new meals that you normally would not try.

Just in the last few years in North America I have noticed that a lot of restaurants have a vegan option that I like to try out for a change. I went to a cafe the other day that had a toasted sandwich with thin bits of fried tofu and veggies that was so good I ordered another, how they made tofu taste good I don't know but it was great... The vegan sausages and other meats are also pretty good and also and easy way to catch up on nutrients you would otherwise miss, no one has invented decent vegan bacon yet but everything else fits right in on a barbecue.

All that being said, I thing Veganuary is a stupid idea. Meat and dairy makes up a huge chunk of people's meals in NA and parts of Europe and cutting all that out at once is bound to sour anyone to being vegan. A smarter initiative would be to get people back into the habit of only having meat 2 or 3 times a week rather than making it a daily thing.

 Commander Cain wrote:
I mean obviously a diet that includes some meat is going to be more nutritious than one without

It is neither obvious, nor true.

You know what might help your cause? Actually explaining the why of it not being obvious or true, rather than posting in a manner that's simply pissing people off and completely drowning any positive intent you might have originally held.

Soooo, don't eat animals or animal made products.

1. Don't eat honey
2. Bees keep making honey and run out of room in their hive
3. No room in hive to lay larva
4. Bees die with no larva to keep the hive thriving
5. No honey means mead is no more...

WHYS THE MEAD GONE!!! no........ I will enjoy Veganuary with a double bacon cheese burger and hot mead on January 1st.

I’ve got other health issues and I’ve found when I tried cutting out meat it made my other health problems worse. Maybe it’d be possible to supplement and get back to my regular level of crap health, but I have no great desire to experiment with vegetarianism let alone veganism.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
So a healthy vegan farts a lot?

When I’ve stayed with some hippy vegan friends and ate their food for any period of time, it certainly had that effect on me, lol.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

 Commander Cain wrote:
I mean obviously a diet that includes some meat is going to be more nutritious than one without

It is neither obvious, nor true.

You are trying to convince people to try being vegan for a little while correct? Maybe don't play into the stereotype so much and act so aggressive to people in this thread, particularly those on your side!


Not sure what you hope to gain by quoting half of a sentence I wrote, I also said you can replace said nutrients with other foods just that it is a little harder. I have been vegetarian for 25 years and am acutely aware that by not eating meat I have to be much more watchful over what I eat in order to get all those tasty nutrients compared to someone who eats meat on a regular basis. No one person's diet is the exact same but a meat-eater who doesn't pay much attention to their diet is going to be better off than a vegan doing the same. I know a few girls who went vegan in order to lose weight but they simply cut out meat and dairy without replacing those things adequately which is super unhealthy.

Perhaps you are just playing a complicated game of 3D chess and forcing people to research being vegan in the hopes of proving you wrong thus going back to the "educate yourself" but there are better and more polite ways to have a discussion than that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ruberu wrote:
Soooo, don't eat animals or animal made products.

1. Don't eat honey
2. Bees keep making honey and run out of room in their hive
3. No room in hive to lay larva
4. Bees die with no larva to keep the hive thriving
5. No honey means mead is no more...

WHYS THE MEAD GONE!!! no........ I will enjoy Veganuary with a double bacon cheese burger and hot mead on January 1st.

A better argument would be that no bees means no pollination which means no plants which means the end of the world!

Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

Meat doesn't really make you fat, though. It's all of the things that people eat with meat; refined wheat buns, French fries, corn syrup drinks, etc. Americans are fatter on average because they eat nutrition free poison.

Also, nothing is better than bacon, except bacon wrapped bacon.

 Luciferian wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

Meat doesn't really make you fat, though. It's all of the things that people eat with meat; refined wheat buns, French fries, corn syrup drinks, etc. Americans are fatter on average because they eat nutrition free poison.

Also, nothing is better than bacon, except bacon wrapped bacon.

Gotta be careful with this info...there is a recent study that claims meat contributes to obesity prevalence worldwide at the same extent as sugar, so it's worth looking into your sources. Its actually a issue related to protein surprisingly. Nevertheless, i agree with you that the other factors you mentioned are horrifying contributers to obesity.

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

Or understand that portion sizes are more important than eating meat or not? The problem is not having a bacon cheeseburger, it's having a huge bacon cheeseburger and a bucket of fries and a bucket of HFCS.

 Peregrine wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

Or understand that portion sizes are more important than eating meat or not? The problem is not having a bacon cheeseburger, it's having a huge bacon cheeseburger and a bucket of fries and a bucket of HFCS.

Yes, totally! Thank you for drawing attention to portion size! Thats a biggie! Also, we can aknowledge that eating red meat can increase our risk of developing type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and even some types of cancer, right?

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

You're assuming that people care if they're "fat AF"? Especially when what you mean by that, for most people, is "a bit overweight", and no matter how much the dieters and gym bunnies throw hissies at people about it, most folk don't really consider a bit of a belly to be a national emergency, especially if it's a consequence of bacon wrapped bacon.

Nobody's advocating striving for obesity, but crikey health nuts don't half seem determined to suck the fun out of life for the rest of us. EDIT: Oh christ, here we go, it's Cancer O'Clock. You know, before you go fully down that rabbit hole, it's probably easier to just list the things that don't, in some way and under some circumstances, contribute towards the risk of some kind of cancer

 Yodhrin wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

You're assuming that people care if they're "fat AF"? Especially when what you mean by that, for most people, is "a bit overweight", and no matter how much the dieters and gym bunnies throw hissies at people about it, most folk don't really consider a bit of a belly to be a national emergency, especially if it's a consequence of bacon wrapped bacon.

Nobody's advocating striving for obesity, but crikey health nuts don't half seem determined to suck the fun out of life for the rest of us.

The only thing I'm assuming is that people generally prefer being alive to being dead. Can you clarify a bit of belly as some point on the BMI so we can discuss this from an objective place? Im going to say a BMI of 40 or more is cutting your life short and before you die, you will suffer deleterious effects on you quality of life.

Is BMI still the only standard, or is there any credence given to BMI adjusted by waist size?

I need to know so that I can determine if I need to completely give up on flavor.

You are the worst poster I've ever seen on this site. Now I understand why you got banned at B&C. You make self righteous threads and posts, then cry when people take you up in debate or disagree. Your critical thinking is atrocious and your arguments constantly boil down to weak appeals to authority or ad hominem.
Also, repeating a statement does not add any weight to it.

Im just in here for the laughs at this point


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luciferian wrote:

 AesSedai wrote:
Americans and Brits are fat AF by global standards, so if one falls into that category, perhaps a brief pause to genuinely consider lifestyle choices is warranted before ramming that double bacon cheeseburger down your gullet. Swallowing a bit of ego > swallowing bacon wrapped bacon? Food for thought.

Meat doesn't really make you fat, though. It's all of the things that people eat with meat; refined wheat buns, French fries, corn syrup drinks, etc. Americans are fatter on average because they eat nutrition free poison.

Also, nothing is better than bacon, except bacon wrapped bacon.

Exactly. Bacon is one of the most nutrient rich meats pound for pound too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
You know what might help your cause? Actually explaining the why of it not being obvious or true, rather than posting in a manner that's simply pissing people off and completely drowning any positive intent you might have originally held.

I wouldn't hold out hope mate.

 daedalus wrote:


I need to know so that I can determine if I need to completely give up on flavor.

Nah, bro, you should be fine unless of course you have the palette of a four year old. Trust me, I have a four year old and sometimes eating veggies is tough for her.

Just veggies? I have a four year-old who eats yoghurt, bread, some fruit, and that's about it. Flat-out refuses to eat anything else, other than the occasional sweet.
My mom says it'll pass. I hope so...

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:


Bacon is one of the most nutrient rich meats pound for pound too.

What..on...earth?? I guess you are being clever with your phrasing. You aren't advocating that bacon is healthy, I hope. While its true that bacon has a range of nutrients, it also has tons of saturated fat, sodium, nitrates, etc. If you care about your health, its best eaten in moderation. The unhealthy aspects more than negate the nutrients it contains. Id guess that people mainly eat bacon because it tastes great (imo) and a lot of people tend to focus on the short term in life and have little thought for the long-term consequences of their actions--colorectal cancer being a slow burn. Let's call a spade a spade.

I tried going vegan years ago.

I almost died from sanctimony toxicity.
It's like heavy-metal poisoning, but more holier-than-thou

 AesSedai wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:


Bacon is one of the most nutrient rich meats pound for pound too.

What..on...earth?? I guess you are being clever with your phrasing. You aren't advocating that bacon is healthy, I hope. While its true that bacon has a range of nutrients, it also has tons of saturated fat, sodium, nitrates, etc. If you care about your health, its best eaten in moderation. The unhealthy aspects more than negate the nutrients it contains. Id guess that people mainly eat bacon because it tastes great (imo) and a lot of people tend to focus on the short term in life and have little thought for the long-term consequences of their actions--colorectal cancer being a slow burn. Let's call a spade a spade.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-bacon-bad-or-good#section2

I could probably stomach being vegetarian; I used to do it for a few weeks at a time when the girlfriend when veggie and I stayed with her. Quorn is sufficiently like a flavourless battery chicken that it can fill up nuggets or burgers and the difference be imperceptible; whilst their sausages are reasonably pleasant. She found out that she had a problem with getting iron out the veggie diet though despite trying quite hard; and the doctor recommended she went back to meat as a medical necessity (which she was quite sad about).

Given recent tech advances though, it's highly likely that in twenty years times vat grown meat will be a thing. So I'm essentially waiting for that to become a serious possibility; then I'll probably swap my meat-sourcing over to the new animal-free version. I don't have a massive hang-up on the moral aspect of meat-eating, and I normally source well enough I'm not overly worried about animal welfare; but if there's the choice between 'bacon with dead pig' and 'bacon with no dead pig', I'll pick the latter.

This morning Radio 4 had Martha Lane Fox going around San Francisco talking various tech entrepreneurs. One of them was a guy whose company "Finless Foods" is trying to vat grow salmon and tuna.

I do wonder what will happen to all the farm animals if the world ever does move to vat grown meat and fish.