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 godardc wrote:
Do you really feel guilty when you eat ? Like, seeing your beefsteaks and sausages, you think about the pig from where they come from ?

To some degree. If it's really possible to obtain all my nutrition without any killing, even of the least consequential animals, then I feel I morally should pursue that option. In practice, I try to minimize the suffering experienced by the animals I eat: free range chickens, cage free eggs, cows that are not kept in a stall and fed bonemeal. I also hate wasting meat, because an animal had to die for that meat to be served, and it should not have died pointlessly.

I admit I have fewer concerns about fish.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Do you really feel guilty when you eat ? Like, seeing your beefsteaks and sausages, you think about the pig from where they come from ?

To some degree. If it's really possible to obtain all my nutrition without any killing, even of the least consequential animals, then I feel I morally should pursue that option. In practice, I try to minimize the suffering experienced by the animals I eat: free range chickens, cage free eggs, cows that are not kept in a stall and fed bonemeal. I also hate wasting meat, because an animal had to die for that meat to be served, and it should not have died pointlessly.

I admit I have fewer concerns about fish.

Repeat after me,

Fish are friends, not food.

I already eat very little meat, but I am never going to stop eating it entirely. It is a key ingredient in many very tasty dishes that I would be really sad to go without.
And veganism? Just no. I would never consider that. Yoghurt is the best food ever made, and it is also really healthy. I eat and drink lots of yoghurt, kefir and other dairy products, and quitting that would leave me without key parts of my diet not to mention really sad. In addition I would also have to give up on icecream (I had Vegan ice"cream" once but it just is not the same. It tasted like coconuts rather than cream and I really hate coconuts) which means I would pretty much have nothing left to live for. Besides, I don't like taking artificial supplements or enriched foods, which is necessary to stay healthy on a vegan (or even a fully vegetarian) diet.
So no. If you like eating vegan, great for you! But don't bother trying to convince me of it. I like the idea of vegetarianism (which is why I started eating meat only rarely instead of daily) but veganism is a step too far in the wrong direction imho.

So, if you're not interested, maybe keep your ignorant and idiotic comments to yourself?

This is not a thread about veganism. It's about Veganuary. Sign up or GTFO.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, if you're not interested, maybe keep your ignorant and idiotic comments to yourself?

This is not a thread about veganism. It's about Veganuary. Sign up or GTFO.

If you are not interested in other people's opinions you should not be posting a thread on a forum. And if you can't be civil, then you should be the one to GTFO.

There’s no need for this kind of extreme hostility. Plus it’s also against our rules. Please keep in mind that Rule Number One around here is Be Polite!

 AesSedai wrote:
Isn't there a strong ethical argument in favor of not supporting the meat industry? The but but but bacon argument always makes me lol because its such a go to. Fyi, I love meat more than average person.

I'm assuming by "meat industry" you're referring to factory farming? If so, there are ways to get meat without supporting factory farming. Hunting and fishing is one method (I realize that's not an option for everyone). You can also purchase meat from more ethical sources. Free-range chicken, grass-fed beef, etc.

I'm not going to do Veganuary. I'm confident I could sustain myself on a vegetarian diet, but vegan is a bit too extreme for me. I don't really understand why someone would be completely against all animal products. What's unethical about eating eggs? What's wrong with eating honey? Both of those things are pretty readily available without supporting factory farming.

My girlfriend is a vegan. She'll be practicing "Veganuary" in January as much as she did in Veganember.

I shake my head and marvel. I eat many vegetarian and even occasionally vegan meals. Not every meal needs meat, and that's an important thing to realize. However, I will be continuing to eat meat as the fancy strikes me. If animals weren't supposed to be eaten, they wouldn't be so tasty.

Good on whoever thinks they can accept it though. The amount of improvisation that vegans perform to be able to make meals that resemble nonvegan meals is utterly extraordinary. For example, she got so excited when I introduced her to liquid smoke because it let her make something she thinks tastes like bacon. She also has been able to fabricate "eggs" in baked goods in a way that makes them almost indistinguishable from the store bought ones, and has made something she calls tiramisu that, while definitely not tiramisu, is still in fact quite the sweet dish.

I applaud vegans for doing their thing no matter how harsh (baselessly even!) the rest of the world is toward them. I just like food and flavor too much to do it myself.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, if you're not interested, maybe keep your ignorant and idiotic comments to yourself?

This is not a thread about veganism. It's about Veganuary. Sign up or GTFO.

Little bit ironic when you got my thread locked by doing that very same thing!

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

Little bit ironic when you got my thread locked for doing the that very same thing!

But some topics are the wrong topic! This is the RIGHT one.

Haha yeah I guess I forgot that's how it works.

The essential amino acids, which are the ones the human body cannot synthesise, which are found in meat, can be got from vegetables, especially beans. That's why it's perfectly possible to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet and not starve to death.

I'm not a vegan myself, but it's important that the scientific facts are known.

So a healthy vegan farts a lot?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Or just try eating however you feel comfortable for the entire year without using a cheesy catchphrase month to justify it/test new diets.

That would be my view

 Peregrine wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
I’ll let the vegans think they’re doing the earth a favour while the organic farms around me fertilize the non-gmo foods they love so much with dead livestock remains and their excrement.

Oh god, don't get me started on that organic anti-GMO garbage. The level of ignorance displayed by anti-GMO advocates...

I’m in favour of GMO. Anything that helps us efficiently feed the world.

Do think it needs rigorous testing though, if only because I watch too much sci fi.

Say NO to Triffids!

how about I just pretend to acknowledge you're a better person and carry on with my PETA way (the good people eating tasty animals one not the pet murdering loons to poor for scientology)

We don't kill animals by eating them: without mankind breeding and exploiting animals, there would be much, much less animals. They exist thanks to us, and are here, as the whole environnement, to be used, exploited, for the good of all humans on Earth.

I do respect freedom and see no problem with vegans (their lack of tolerance is an issue however. In France they destroyed several shops selling meat) but I have never found their arguments to be worth it.

 daedalus wrote:

If animals weren't supposed to be eaten, they wouldn't be so tasty.

I always wonder about the "ethical" argument for veganism. Yes, eating meat means killing stuff - you think eating vegetables doesn't?

Unless you pulled it out of the ground in your own back garden/allotment, odds are good whatever veggies & grains you buy were produced by the same horrifying industrial farming processes that made my bacon roll. Sure, producing meat is either A; cruel, or B; terrible for the planet because of the landmass consumed, but they clear plenty of carbon-sequestering plant life for arable farmland as well, and if you're the kind of person who feels bad for eating a fish or cares about plastic pollution, then I have some bad news about what agricultural runoff is doing to our rivers and oceans...

Nah, sorry. If you want to affect actual, meaningful change rather than just make yourself feel a little better, you'll have a far bigger impact engaging in activism to support things like freeing GM crop technology from corporate control, encouraging farms to switch to closed-loop hydroponic systems, and advocating for more funding to go into developing lab-grown meat than you ever will abstaining from meat and trying to make Passive Aggressiveanuary a thing.

There are two different arguments for veganism. One is based on environmental concerns as you mention, the other is based on not causing suffering to animals.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, if you're not interested, maybe keep your ignorant and idiotic comments to yourself?

This is not a thread about veganism. It's about Veganuary. Sign up or GTFO.

A thread about a made-up catchphrase to promote veganism is not about veganism? Pull the other one, this one's got bells on.
Slightly more on-topic: while I applaud most vegans' attempt to save the world, it's my opinion that they're treating a symptom, not the cure. There's too much cattle, true, but there's too much cattle because there are too many people, and the only real solution is to reduce that.
Unfortunately, the political will doesn't exist to tackle that problem, and in fact our entire economic and largely our social structures are actively opposed to that kind of solution.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So, if you're not interested, maybe keep your ignorant and idiotic comments to yourself?

This is not a thread about veganism. It's about Veganuary. Sign up or GTFO.

So, a thread explicitly for proselytizing?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are two different arguments for veganism. One is based on environmental concerns as you mention, the other is based on not causing suffering to animals.

But in either case, the argument doesn't go away, it just makes it one step removed. Is having your habitat cleared away and slowly starving to death not suffering? Is there really a difference between dying to the blade/bolt-gun of a slaughterer, or being minced by accident in an industrial mechanised thresher? Neither would be happening if not for humans needing to eat. Industrial farming - the source of the vast, vast majority of food we eat regardless of what part of the food pyramid it falls into - causes animal suffering, period. You can eat "ethically" if that's your focus, but then all the "veganism isn't expensive that's a myth" type stuff goes right out the window.

So again, the solution is spend your time trying to change the system, not trying to persuade people to participate in the system in a slightly different way to give themselves the illusion of superior ethics.

Veganuary is exactly intended to show non-vegans that 95% of what they think they know about being vegan is total and complete nonsense.

Which is why you should actually try it, rather than dismissing it with comforting and exculpatory lies.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Veganuary is exactly intended to show non-vegans that 95% of what they think they know about being vegan is total and complete nonsense.

Oh really? The list of tasty meats that are not available is a lie? I can still eat BBQ and cheese and such? I don't need to try such a terrible idea to know that I have zero interest in giving up those things to save some dumb cows that wouldn't exist at all if not for the meat industry. But I guess we're supposed to overlook the fact that the success of veganism means the complete extinction of all those species we eat?

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Veganuary is exactly intended to show non-vegans that 95% of what they think they know about being vegan is total and complete nonsense.

Which is why you should actually try it, rather than dismissing it with comforting and exculpatory lies.

So, where do I go to apply to get a medal for being a vegan?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Veganuary is exactly intended to show non-vegans that 95% of what they think they know about being vegan is total and complete nonsense.

Oh really? The list of tasty meats that are not available is a lie? I can still eat BBQ and cheese and such? I don't need to try such a terrible idea to know that I have zero interest in giving up those things to save some dumb cows that wouldn't exist at all if not for the meat industry. But I guess we're supposed to overlook the fact that the success of veganism means the complete extinction of all those species we eat?

Excommunicatus likes his false appeal to authority arguments.

Of the several Vegan people I of, and some I personally know, all of whom are due to medical conditions, none have ever tried to enforce their diets on me.
Why? Because they know that their specific diets are designed for their specific conditions, needs, and tolerances. If my doctors were to tell me that I needed to follow such a restricted diet, I would take it under advisement with consultations with others and nutritionists to work out the best diet for me.
A balanced diet, moderate exercise and/or activity, social interaction, sufficient hydration and appropriate amount of sleep should keep you healthy, but consult your doctor.. 'cause... like he/she's the expert on these matters.

Speaking of false appeals to authority...

Very few general practitioners, at least in the U.K., U.S.A. and Canada, receive any formal education or training in nutrition. For sure speak to a qualified healthcare professional about nutrition. I'd advise against seeing your GP for that purpose. If you must, maybe ensure they're qualified first.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Speaking of false appeals to authority...

Very few general practitioners, at least in the U.K., U.S.A. and Canada, receive any formal education or training in nutrition. For sure speak to a qualified healthcare professional about nutrition. I'd advise against seeing your GP for that purpose. If you must, maybe ensure they're qualified first.

Do you apply this standard to yourself and to other vegans, and refuse to speak on nutrition issues unless you have formal training and licensing in the field? Including making statements like "a vegan diet can provide all you need, claims otherwise are false"?

(Granted, maybe you do, but you'd seem to be a rare minority among vegans.)

Yes, I apply exactly the same standard.

I have a fair amount of formal education and training in such matters, far more than your average GP has, so I'm able to confidently state that there is not a nutrient your body needs that cannot be provided for on a vegan diet. Not a single one.

Try Veganuary and educate yourself.