Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 godardc wrote:
You know that something is wrong when people say that something is ''too cheap''...
If it is cheap, it is affordable for people, even poor people. For me it is a good thing.
I eat meat twice a day.

It is just that you are not familiar with the economic concept of externalities.

So what are the consensus of using animal products that have lived and died naturally. So you see that fresh killed deer on the road?

Is that off limits? Or is it just going to waste away there to propagate parasites and diseases.

Your dog dies......can I use his fur to make a useful item. What about his skull, etc.

And if you did not drive or use transportation that deer wouldn't have been road kill and if you did not train that pet dog to be conditioned to behave beneficial to humans......

It seems that the vegan argument can have a host of variable boundries.

 admironheart wrote:


It seems that the vegan argument can have a host of variable boundries.

The same can be said about our boundaries about killing other humans. Or any prohibition of a specific behavior. We all agree that some behaviors and actions shouldn't be tolerated, but the devil is always in the detail. Ethical vegans (those who adopted a vegan lifestyle for ethical consideration) aren't a monolithic group either.

I see two or three dead deer a year on the side of the road. I almost hit one myself once. I think it was a muntjac, because it was pretty small.

Anyway, nature has ways of recycling dead animals, and plants for that matter. It's not something anyone needs to worry about.

I'd never turn to Veganism for even 1 day.
Heck with the price of being a Vegan you can sod right off.
I can give myself 2 meals a day for less than £1.50

 simonr1978 wrote:
That said, I did and still do take issue with the "I'm a vegetarian, except for...." crowd. If what follows that statement is any form of animal life you're not a vegetarian, you're just a picky omnivore. If you're a pescetarian that's fine, but call yourself that rather than claiming to be a vegetarian because fish aren't plants.

SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

Greggs Launches Vegan Sausage Roll

For non-Brits, Greggs is a UK-wide chain of baker shops which sells typically British fast food items such as steak bakes, sausage rolls, and beef pasties.

https://www.greggs.co.uk/bakes

I always thought stuff like that was like alcohol free beer.. What's the point? If I'm not drinking alcohol why would I want something that tasted like beer? I'd just drink Coke.

Coke tastes sweet, and beer is bitter. If you like a bitter drink you won't find Coke an acceptable substitute.

Similarly, the point of the vegan sausage roll is that it's a sausage roll, not a vegan chocolate muffin.

Nanny State from Brewdog is a pretty good alcohol free beer. Technically it's got 0.5% alcohol content.

One of the things I miss about living in the UK is Quorn, a lot of their products were super tasty but it is not available in Canada.

And meatless meats are oftentimes a decent substitute for the real thing, plus you can go to a BBQ and not look like a fool eating nothing but a hotdog bun with ketchup on it

Just... read the ingredients of some of those meatless meats. Some of them - the cheaper ones - read like a chemistry experiment instead of food.

Which is where the 'vegetarian diets are expensive' arguments come from. Sure, you can get cheap vegan stuff... but it's not exactly healthy for you. The all-natural vegan stuff tends to be significantly more expensive than it's non-vegan equivalents.

 Vulcan wrote:
Just... read the ingredients of some of those meatless meats. Some of them - the cheaper ones - read like a chemistry experiment instead of food.

Which is where the 'vegetarian diets are expensive' arguments come from. Sure, you can get cheap vegan stuff... but it's not exactly healthy for you. The all-natural vegan stuff tends to be significantly more expensive than it's non-vegan equivalents.

Yeah. Even the "cheap" stuff is about twice as expensive per weight as cheap meat would be, and probably a little scarier ingredient-wise.

Outside of meat, if you're looking at the fake substitutions for butter or cream cheese, they're about double the price of what the real one costs and often in slightly smaller packages.

You CAN do vegan food on the cheap, but it's going to look like beans, vegetables and carbs carbs carbs.

 daedalus wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Just... read the ingredients of some of those meatless meats. Some of them - the cheaper ones - read like a chemistry experiment instead of food.

Which is where the 'vegetarian diets are expensive' arguments come from. Sure, you can get cheap vegan stuff... but it's not exactly healthy for you. The all-natural vegan stuff tends to be significantly more expensive than it's non-vegan equivalents.

Yeah. Even the "cheap" stuff is about twice as expensive per weight as cheap meat would be, and probably a little scarier ingredient-wise.

Outside of meat, if you're looking at the fake substitutions for butter or cream cheese, they're about double the price of what the real one costs and often in slightly smaller packages.

You CAN do vegan food on the cheap, but it's going to look like beans, vegetables and carbs carbs carbs.

But if you are a vegan why bother with all the imitation stuff.

My girlfriend said it was out of nostalgia mostly.

Personally, I think that the diet would probably get boring super quick without anything resembling dairy or meat.

 daedalus wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
Just... read the ingredients of some of those meatless meats. Some of them - the cheaper ones - read like a chemistry experiment instead of food.

Which is where the 'vegetarian diets are expensive' arguments come from. Sure, you can get cheap vegan stuff... but it's not exactly healthy for you. The all-natural vegan stuff tends to be significantly more expensive than it's non-vegan equivalents.

Yeah. Even the "cheap" stuff is about twice as expensive per weight as cheap meat would be, and probably a little scarier ingredient-wise.

Outside of meat, if you're looking at the fake substitutions for butter or cream cheese, they're about double the price of what the real one costs and often in slightly smaller packages.

You CAN do vegan food on the cheap, but it's going to look like beans, vegetables and carbs carbs carbs.

To be honest, though, if you take meat, fish and dairy out of anyone's diet then what is left will look like beans, vegetables and carbs.

 daedalus wrote:
Personally, I think that the diet would probably get boring super quick without anything resembling dairy or meat.

I think that's the best part about the diet. I'm not vegan by a long stretch but I love how creative proper vegan food is, and I can enjoy it without actually being vegan (which seems to upset a lot of them). People should be encouraged to go vegan by being shown how awesome vegan food is for a food lover (I have some friends that do this), rather than showing that you can be a vegan by eating the same crap as everyone else but without the meat (I've got a vegan friend who does this - it's all vegan pretend meat junk food, it looks awful and must cost a fortune).

I'd love to see more "this is how awesome veganism is" rather than shame or "just try it".

I try to go for a low waste / environmental impact lifestyle - local foods, less travel, less plastic and so on, but beyond going for the occasional vegetarian/vegan meal I'm not that bothered about the lifestyle.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

To be honest, though, if you take meat, fish and dairy out of anyone's diet then what is left will look like beans, vegetables and carbs.

Point taken. I meant to suggest that the difference between doing it on the cheap and otherwise was that expensive things such as the fake meat and fake cheese looks like meat and cheese, more or less, regardless of actual composition, and less like the cheap option, which literally looks like beans, vegetables, and carbs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Personally, I think that the diet would probably get boring super quick without anything resembling dairy or meat.

I think that's the best part about the diet. I'm not vegan by a long stretch but I love how creative proper vegan food is, and I can enjoy it without actually being vegan (which seems to upset a lot of them). People should be encouraged to go vegan by being shown how awesome vegan food is for a food lover (I have some friends that do this), rather than showing that you can be a vegan by eating the same crap as everyone else but without the meat (I've got a vegan friend who does this - it's all vegan pretend meat junk food, it looks awful and must cost a fortune).

Yeah, the girlfriend nails it sometimes and winds up with really spectacular stuff that I do enjoy eating. A lot of times though she winds up eating what is by all accounts cardboard or rubber to me. She expresses a weird notion that she has more variety NOT eating animal products, but I can't really understand that line of thinking that less options = more variety. Maybe it's that needing to get creative that you talk about? Honestly, there's more than enough food I've never tasted that I'm not worried about needing to go to such great lengths.

There are also conflicting reports of health concerns regarding thyroid disorders and soy heavy diets, of which a fake food vegan diet consists predominantly. If not already for the taste, that keeps me far away from it as well.

I'd love to see more "this is how awesome veganism is" rather than shame or "just try it".

Yeah, funny how that works, isn't it.