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Pleased with the new models. Wondering what the Venomthrope does and what other models will be included in the box.

The artwork appears to indicate there will also be some Possessed.

I really like all the new chaos stuff. Black legion was never super easy to paint well.....these are going to be painful.

What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

Rain wrote:I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:

Putting them side-by-side really highlights how rubbish the Centurions look...

The Obliterator is clearly based upon a Centurion (compare the feet), but looks to have mutated from an older pattern with much more baroque, curved armour.

If the Centurion had the same layout- heavier weapons mounted above the shoulders instead of on the fists- I think the sculpt would be far better!

Agamemnon2 wrote:What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

I think it may be something of a throwback to the secular ideals and technological expansion of the Great Crusade- that was pretty much the last time Guilliman was active!

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

Um, you know primaris can take chainswords, right? The exact same amount as tactical or devastator squad, even. Yes, whatever dumb rule writer it was who bungled the issue of their melee weapon access muddied the waters, but it's there now. Really, all SM sergeants should just have one melee upgrade table but maybe GW will get there once a competent writer takes over the army.

As for camouflage, SM (besides sons of the genius who always spouted gems like "camouflage is the color of cowardice") always did that too, not only you have examples like Raptors or Raven Guard, but the Codex has several chapters on stealth and the FW Badab Books are full of alternate, camouflage color schemes for participating chapters. It's a very nice call back to HH veteran infiltrators and such. I feel it's less change of direction and more SM finally doing things they were always supposed to and less acting like metal skinned IG...

I know the cat is now firmly out of the bag but I wonder how many initially skipped the "new Primaris Lieutenant" video.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Pleased with the new models. Wondering what the Venomthrope does and what other models will be included in the box.

The "Venomcrawler" is:

A new class of Daemon Engine, the Venomcrawler is a skittering horror that provides withering infernal fire support. This thing is so saturated in the taint of the Warp that its presence thins the veil of reality itself, allowing Daemons easier access to realspace.

Makes me think that it will do something for Daemons coming in from reserves.

What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.

It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.

Rain wrote:
I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:

Ajusted..

 Irbis wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

Um, you know primaris can take chainswords, right? The exact same amount as tactical or devastator squad, even. Yes, whatever dumb rule writer it was who bungled the issue of their melee weapon access muddied the waters, but it's there now. Really, all SM sergeants should just have one melee upgrade table but maybe GW will get there once a competent writer takes over the army.

Aha, I see. I was going by the current crop of miniatures, where I was struck by the absence of something so emblematic of the Space Marine aesthetic (the only Primaris models I've seen with close combat weapons are characters with powerswords, and Reivers with their throat-cutting knives. Now that I think of it, though, Calgar's new honor guard are pretty much identically regalia'd to Normmarine versions, so my thesis is pretty dubious.

Klone12 wrote:

Spoiler:

Rain wrote:
I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:

Ajusted..

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.

It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.

If not everything is Knights in Space, that frees up the Knightly aesthetic a bit for the Templars and Dark Angels, keeping them distinct without needing to have plasma-speeder #4 to keep them distinct from codex marines. Like back in 3rd/4th where the aesthetic differences were more subtle than greek god armor on every BA, full wolf pelts on every Space Wolf, and gothic castles ontop of DA vehicles.

PiñaColada wrote:

Klone12 wrote:

Spoiler:

Rain wrote:
I might be a bit off here with different angles and what not, but the new CSM seem to have been at the steroids a little:

Ajusted..

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.

It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.

They look terrible? Cmon man, at least pretend to inhabit the same reality as everyone else.

Anyway, Jes has already been over this in the first voxcast episode. Primaris are really just a reset of the marine range. They'd sculpted themselves into a corner, adding ever more bling to marines so they went back to basics. They're still knight in space and the gubbins will come back in due course.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.

I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?

Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.

JSG wrote:

They look terrible? Cmon man, at least pretend to inhabit the same reality as everyone else.

Look out, it's the thought police.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

JSG wrote:

They look terrible? Cmon man, at least pretend to inhabit the same reality as everyone else.

Look out, it's the thought police.

Oi! That's exaggeration police to you mate!

Klone12 wrote:
Ajusted..

Spoiler:

The centurion is more at an angle, so the width of the base is a better guide then the height of the lip. Of course, assuming they're both on a 50mm base. Considering they share the same feet, I'm guessing the shoulders of the Obliterator and the Centurions will be at a similar height, but the Obliterator will have the shoulder mounted guns on top of that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.

I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?

Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.

I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.

I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?

Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.

I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.

Except... the model has less guns stuck on than the older model... and is clearly bigger? So they've bolted less guns to a bigger model.

 Galas wrote:
He was the first Librarian with a helmet that I saw in modern times**

You've not seen this guy, then?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Primaris-Space-Marines-Librarian-Epistolary

Anyway, I'm liking the new Primaris in light armour. The only problem I have is what to do with all those Scouts I've still not painted? And just think! Now we could get Primarius Lieutenants in Phobos Armour, too!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If GW lets us throw the guns wherever I'd say that it was a victory.

I wonder if we're going back to the obliterators of yore?

Those are very distinct weapons on there - not the generic barrel sticking out of a body. Feels like the Centurion treatment.

I am completely certain that their profile will have exactly the weapons shown on the model, to conform to both WYSIWYG and GW's tendancy to bolt more and more guns on ever smaller models.

A distinct possibility, the only thing that steers me away from that is that the 2 Oblits shown thus far have very different loadouts, the video one seems to have less guns (assault cannon and heavy flamer) than the pictured one (plasma cannon, melts, twin bolter and heavy bolter).

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

This is exactly why Primaris hold absolutely no interest for me. I think they look terrible. Technological advancement has no place in warhammer 40k.

It actually scares me to think that the game might be headed in this direction. They had the right idea back in 4th and 5th where everything was knights in space.

Indeed. The Warrior Monk aspect of Marines was precisely what made them interesting. Primaris are just guys in armor. It's dull. Pretty, but dull.

There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.

Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM
1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?

If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).

Loving the new Sister



and Finally - Sniper Marines - I have some Anvil Industries ones and these are nicely similar.



This sounds great

Not sure about the Oblitterators - seem a little busy.

 Asmodai wrote:
There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.

They explicitly stated that this teaser is not the full contents of the box.

I expect there will be more than 3 Chaos Marines in that box. Three snipers make sense as a unit, bolter guys not so much.

 Asmodai wrote:
There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.

Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM
1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?

If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).

Look at the video screen caps on pg 9 of this thread- there is a 4th unique CSM sculpt, and a second Obliterator. It is strongly suggested that these are new multipart plastic kits of full units, not unique units with weird unit sizes and mono-option models like Rogue Trader and BSF.

 Asmodai wrote:
There must be more Space Marine stuff to be revealed for that box.

Vanguard Librarian = Master of Possessions
3x Eliminators = 3x new CSM
1+ Obliterator = ?
Venomcrawler = ?

If they're trying to keep the forces relatively even in terms of stuff, I'd expect the Primaris half to get at least one large infantry model and one Dreadnought-sized model (hopefully not just another Redemptor).

Considering the Primaris Vanguard seem to be themed around stealth and subterfuge, I'm guessing a dreadnought doesn't really fit.

If there was something big on the Primaris side you'd think it would be included in the revealed artwork at least, which I'm guessing will be the box art for Shadowspear. Going from that artwork it seems the Primaris will get Sergeant Telion included and some Reiver variants. Perhaps one of those will have anti-armour weapons of some sort.

I actually like the primaries for having less pointless bling. Though not enough to actually buy them, as they're still just yet more marines. I do dislike the at they going to mimic the 'and another new chamber opens' release style of Sigmarines. 'New' variants (weapon swaps) of the same faction over and over again for years is extremely dull.

But I'm finding myself rather lukewarm on the chaos stuff for the same reason I like the look of primaris. They're overloaded with crap. The thought of painting all the bits and gubbins just makes me sigh a little and wonder where the models are underneath all that.

I rather liked the simpler marines with spikes on.

Ah ,well. Got enough projects in the fire anyway. I'm actually more interested in the AoS teasers. Seems a good year so far for that system.