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New CSM termies?

 Haighus wrote:
However, I am most reassured by the Rumour Engine pics. There are at least 4 that heavily suggest Chaos units (the probable Sorcerer backpack vent, the Chaos-y plasma cannon, the Chaos-marked tome, and the Slanneshi-esque pata-sword), as well as the flaming brazier. That is a lot of Chaos-related titbits. EDIT: also the burning skull in the 8-pointed star-ring.

By 'brazier' you mean Vorne-like flamer? Because I don't think that is Chaos at all, but something from Ecclesiarchy...

Dude in the front looks uncannily like GSC Chaos Marine. Did armless recruited some in hopes their genestock can repair his condition?

 Carnikang wrote:
Looks like a new helbrute in the back there. And that Marine with the habit and sword looks like a psyker... Namely because if his talisman.

And not, because of you know, his psychic hood?

Also, primaris dude in front has not only new, very stormtrooper-y helmet, his backpack has comm equipment too. Looks like DG and GSC flood of characters really sells. Reiver is weird, too, not only new helmet without speakers, but the grenades were replaced by some sort of electronic equipment. Stealth squad as opposed to screechy boys?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:
The primaris in the pic all have the same armor as reivers and grav chutes, but stalker bolt rifles and different helmets/comms backpacks. Even the lib has that style of MkX.

Primaris scouts? Gimme.

Fun fact, it looks like the "Intercessors" on the front of Urban Conquest...weren't.

Spoiler:

These are completely normal, bog standard bolt carbine Reivers in literally every single detail. "Intercessors"? What?

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What I find interesting is that the Vanguard Primaris stuff is another step GW knowingly and consistently withdrawing from the gothic over-the-top-ness of old 40k into a more technological aesthetic. These are advanced warriors using high-tech weaponry and eschewing a lot of the more bizarre anachronisms of the setting, like chainswords.

Marines using camoflage and subterfuge is another departure from the more dogmatic and ritualistic conception of previous iterations. The purity seals on the Eliminators are small, almost perfunctory, giving the impression that this new generation of warriors is abandoning the religious beliefs of their predecessors. Now, maybe they'll come out with something ornate and traditional like Primaris Sanguinary Guard next month, but up to this point, this pattern has held up, and is certainly an interesting one. More soldiers than warrior-monks.

Um, you know primaris can take chainswords, right? The exact same amount as tactical or devastator squad, even. Yes, whatever dumb rule writer it was who bungled the issue of their melee weapon access muddied the waters, but it's there now. Really, all SM sergeants should just have one melee upgrade table but maybe GW will get there once a competent writer takes over the army.

As for camouflage, SM (besides sons of the genius who always spouted gems like "camouflage is the color of cowardice") always did that too, not only you have examples like Raptors or Raven Guard, but the Codex has several chapters on stealth and the FW Badab Books are full of alternate, camouflage color schemes for participating chapters. It's a very nice call back to HH veteran infiltrators and such. I feel it's less change of direction and more SM finally doing things they were always supposed to and less acting like metal skinned IG...

Gee, this thing suuure looks like more possessed. It's almost as if certain someone's aura of being 100% wrong 100% of the time somehow warped these into existence

Guys, quick, can you spamwhine something loudly about primaris terminators and veterans? I'd like to get them by my birthday, TYVM

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

JSG wrote:
Monopose is a meme. It's up there with overdesigned. Every tactical marine, Ork boy, Eldar guardian etc has been posed more or less the same way for twenty odd years, despite them being multipose kits. The new sculpts are posed better and how limiting is it really to have the torso and legs connected?

Compare the Reivers from the 3-pack monopose to the Reivers from the actual kit and you'll see.

The 'torso and legs being connected' aren't the issue- or what happens in monopose kits. It's the lack of options and customization. I want my models to be able to tilt their heads and face a specific direction, to have dynamic poses with their arms that work with their stance, to have a degree of personalization that makes them actually look the way I want them to.

I don't get your problem. 3 dynamic, different poses vs 3 identical, squatting + clutching bolter across the chest ones - new kit, even though it's ETB, is obviously superior here.

Even the other thing you mention, posing, is non-issue with new ETBs, all you need is to clip off tab at the bottom of the head, presto, you can pose it you any way you want. Ditto with arms - clip off pegs and you can pose the arm pretty much to the same degree as old 'multipose' minis. The only issue is the fact the pad is part of the arm, so you can't rotate it to hide gaps to nearly same degree, and have to use file/greenstuff for more radical reposing, but the possibility is there. In fact, I'd grade 'ETB' far superior to at least two dozen old plastic "multipose" kits when it comes to ease of assembly and pose, never mind looks and ease of cleanup/prep...

One thing I like about these is the face shield on respirator. Mk V and VII always looked colossally stupid to me for this very reason, complete lack of protection against bullets save for thin grate right on the height where your spine connects to your skull, presenting perfect target in weak joint even if your bones were armored.

Nice someone finally figured it out after 10000 years...

Wayniac wrote:The Havocs can also take all special weapons, remember. So they are basically the specialist squad from HH; all special or all heavy.

What I suspect, as much as I don't like it (GW *really* needs to produce a weapon pack like they have the upgrades that contains like 2 of each weapon) is that the new kit will be compatible with the Forgeworld heavy/special weapon packs they sell. So if you want "havocs" you buy a CSM box and then order your 4 lascannons/autocannons/etc. from Forgeworld.

Or you know, one can go to a bit site and take a look at the section with Mk III or IV bits. These sprues were so cheap and readily available each bit shop ordered dozens of Battle of X boxes and the inventories are packed with hundreds if not thousands of Heresy era special/heavy guns, perfectly appropriate for CSM. I still don't get the dumb Havoc fixation, it would be one thing if they had even a single cosmetic difference to other CSM (like Devastators in SM with their 'heavy' legs and helmets) but they are exactly identical and the plastic Havocs are at the very bottom of list of things CSM need. I'd even say below plastic chaos Thunderhawk.

Hell, GW was even so kind to put plastic legion style autocannons in Shadow Spear box, just grab these and get converting

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW won't release a kit and say "Now buy the FW kit!". That's not the way they operate.

Yup, GW would never tell you to go grab upgrade pack if you want multiple of a gun.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Plasma-Guns
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Meltaguns
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Noise-Marine-Sonic-Weapons
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Noise-Marines-Upgrade-Pack
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Chaos-Space-Marines-Iron-Warriors-Upgrade-Pack

But maybe these are some sort of arcane hidden secret, surely GW wouldn't put the weapon packs front and center on their TV page and told new players how to conver--

https://youtu.be/FH0h-fA_EWE

Oh wait, you were saying?

Mandragola wrote:
Poor old Abaddon. He broke the imperium in half causing loads of planets to fall to chaos. It’s arguably more than Horus ever managed. What else do you guys want from he guy?

Erm, no. Horus legitimately conquered from 1/3 to 1/2 of the Galaxy in just a decade. Had Terra fallen, he would have had Dark Imperium ready to rule. Failbaddon, in comparison, took 10.000 years to accomplish exactly nothing, and when he finally did, he just shat all over the map making it virtually useless for both sides. Sure, Imperium lost tens of thousands of worlds, but seeing these turned into dead, unproductive daemon worlds that will never be of any use again and massively feeding the gods, something that supposedly goes against both goals the 'armless has (namely, making gods insignificant and ruling everything himself). From where I sit, that doesn't exactly look like a great success.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Symbio Joe wrote:

The word about Failbaddon the most unsuccessful Warmaster should've landed at their doorstep by now. If they are going to do something about it we will know soon.

Abaddon's primary goals are so immense in scale that they cannot succeed, or the whole setting goes up in flames. If blowing up Cadia wasn't enough to satisfy the Failbaddon crowd, what would be?

How about, you know, him having even one of 1/10000 of success that Horus had? To make him look less like incompetent sock puppet?

I mean, we went from 12 failed Black Crusades into dumb retcon #1, stating it was all totally meant to lose because he totes was accomplishing other things (namely expending billions of soldiers and tens of thousands of astartes plus hundreds of warships to accomplish such lofty goals as pissing on one grave, killing three digit number of people on that one ship or grabbing a fancy cutlery piece) all of which hilariously enough made the 12 failed Crusades look like epitome of competence in comparison as at least there is no shame in losing honest fight, but throwing away truck full of gold to grab a handful of peanuts intentionally makes you look like headless loser...

Then came dumb retcon #2, the crimson path, stating Failbaddon wants to rule the imperium and deny the gods by sinking most of it into the warp, making it impossible to be ruled by mortal and giving various daemons, daemon princes, and greater daemons he surrounds himself with limitless power - genius! It's like wanting to stop communist revolution by delivering codes to the entire US and Russian nuclear arsenals on a silver platter to the Central Committee of the Communist Party. Gee, I wonder what he intends to do when he wins and finds out no one needs him around anymore, with all of the above guys now playing dice who will claim his suddenly worthless hide now that gods no longer have to pretend they like him?

Of course, we're now on ADBs dumb retcon #3, which somehow manages to mix the above two into even greater ball of fail (combined with Imperium, Eldar and Necrons being blind, deaf, and stupid pretending the thing all of which hate the most wasn't happening last ten millenia and not utilizing their precognitive abilities or even common sense even once to thwart Abby) as he had thrown colossal amounts of material and lives away only to have his ass handed to him and his last irreplaceable super battleship lost uselessly (given he could have just chucked big piece of rock at Cadia in BC nr 1 and called it a day if that really was his goal).

Oh, and then he took a century long nap, apparently, and to add insult to injury, just after he blown up Cadia BC nr 13 splintered into pieces instantly leaving him with tiny amount of forces left as everyone else frakked off to do their own thing. So, he not only had zero say over his demonic followers, apparently his mortal ones didn't gave two grots about him either. Does any of that not sound like a hopeless failure to any of you?

 Irbis wrote:


New CSM termies?

I like how people speculate termie trophy rack is Abby when I put picture that matches it nearly 100% here 50 pages ago...

Note also far left guy, owner of the chainaxe possibly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, new DE pic (didn't we already saw this one tho?):

YOU KNOW, MORTALS, WHEN A WARPSMITH BOUND ME TO THE RUMOUR ENGINE IN A VILE FUSION OF DAEMON AND MACHINE, I INITIALLY WASN’T SUPER JAZZED ABOUT THE IDEA, BUT THIS HAS ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY COOL. LIKE, CHECK THIS OUT.


CAN YOU GUESS WHAT IT IS? I KNOW, BUT THE HEXAGRAMMIC WARDS PREVENT ME FROM TELLING YOU… FOR NOW!

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
There is already a Warpsmith mini (and there always has been one since 3rd edition).

Um, no, that was waRsmith. You mean warPsmith, which is completely different unit that was released late 6th edition

SpyderG6 wrote:
Based on the text for this photo it looks like it maybe the final tease.

Or they are just flipping it to Loyalist Engine that will screech sermons and stuff while showing bits from the Imperial side

 Redemption wrote:
Speaking of the Master of Possession, I got the sense of his last preview that he might be a named character like Haarkon, instead of a generic character, or am I reading too much into his name?

Probably too much, last 3-4 SM officers were all named, the models were for generic unit entry though. Ditto for like 7+ DG characters, all models named, but actual units were generic.

 Haighus wrote:
I thought that was already the description used for Reiver armour, along with Tacticus used by Intercessors, and Gravis armour?

In fact this ""interesting"" info was first shown two years ago, in Primaris reveal trailer, but shhh

 Kanluwen wrote:
I don't understand why they still get the 3+ save either.

Yup, it's not like they wear power armour or anything... Oh wait

 Brother Xeones wrote:
I'm familiar with the concept of reconnaissance in force—but what I'm saying is that there's not actually any mention of said intel gathering. No discussion of "preparing the way for the main Space Marine force" no "Marked for Death" feeling from any of what they said. They don't actually say anything other than briefly mentioning "reconnaissance" and something about the "tip of the spear". Presumably, if you get poked with the tip of the spear, the rest of the spear is set to follow. But instead all we really get is "We work alone—without aid from the main force, and we use isometric warefare techniques and terror tactics to systematically take the enemy down piece by piece from the shadows before emerging to perform the killing blow". That's not Recon—that's describing Nightlords without the ridiculous bat wing hats.

No, that's pretty much describing real life spetsnaz. Scouts from 10th company do light recon, these guys do recon by force destroying identified targets and assaulting positions of potential or unknown marks, main SM force smashes enemy bereft of air/artillery support, logistics, and command structures destroyed by vanguard. What's the problem with that again? Sure, spetsnaz did recon too but you simply don't waste time of elite assault units doing tasks that can be done by other assets of overall commander but you tell them to do stuff they were meant for.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Did I say it bothered me?

As a gun nut I love this stuff because it highlights the madness of technology in 40k. Even something as mundane as a bolt weapon has pointless bits on it because to alter the design would be heretical.

"Gun nut"? Gee, if only there were weapons like that in real life used by recon forces...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS-1_Tishina
https://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/izdelie-d-eng/
https://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/izdelie-dm-eng/

You were saying?

 Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

Yeah, it's not like last war where people tried to go without before being plainly shown how utterly stupid not wearing a helmet is ended over a century ago now... Waitamoment

Hotrod wrote:
Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".

Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).

So, 3 CSM characters, 10 CSM, 3 oblits, and a tank vs 3 SM characters and 11 SM? Isn't that hilariously one-sided match? Unless there are multiple SM squads in the box?

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We have zero confirmation that the models are monopose.

That locked chaos marine squad loadout strongly implies that.

You mean the one that doesn't feature meltagun and heavy bolter, two weapons we know exist in the box seeing they were in promo video? That one?

Also, like I noted above, 14 SM vs 20 CSM when the latter have a tank and oblits makes me doubt the whole thing. Compared to Dark Imperium, CSM side is actually larger than DG was, while SM are actually much smaller, by 1.5 squads...

 Asherian Command wrote:
The new lore seems rushed, and this stuff seems out of well.. stupidity. Don't they know space marines are the speartip in a formation? They never go in like in long lines their whole point is to destroy enemy leadership, supply, cripple morale, and strategic objectives.. it even says that in their codex.

It might "say" so but if you think about it for a second, regular SM company is mechanized infantry force with tanks and artillery. This is not how a force doing the above looks like, especially if they have heavy armour and dreadnoughts, units even less suited to anything but frontal smashing. Until now, GW was making excuses "oh, look, if they leave all their support behind and act like disorganized light infantry unit they can totally do recon and behind the lines assault, honest guv!" but now SM are getting proper tools for missions like this.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
... two weapons we know exist in the box seeing ...

We don't know what box they belong to. We can presume they belong to Shadow Spear, but that's all we can do: Presume.

If GW put unrelated models into Spear videos it would be really not cool. IMO, I still can't see a 'campaign' box being full of push-fits when last 5 or 6 of them were multiparts, so I hope it's full sized kits. Especially seeing camplaign boxes are quickly discontinued and I can't see GW making moulds for that many units twice, but we'll see.

 Yodhrin wrote:
The point is that the idea "technology is scary" is somehow beyond the pale and "grimderp" is ridiculous given the broader context of the setting, which is full of illogical, extreme, over-the-top renditions of all sorts of things.

Except, you know, when people object to 'grimderp' they don't mean grimdark. They mean comically stupid, over the top idiocy that would have toppled Imperium in 10 years, never mind 10 millennia. Stuff like garbage new lore stating each commissar has to kill several other commissar-cadets in order to graduate, SM recruiting process having 99.9% mortality rate (especially when they recruit from a planet with tiny population that would never sustain this) with extra geneseed apparently materializing from thin air, and rest of the crap that states Imperium pointlessly kills trillions at every single possible step which only turns grimdark into farce and so cheapens it that genuinely dark portions of the lore cease to trigger any reaction in an audience that was already numbed to death twice.

To actually see Imperium being competent in areas where they really should is not only refreshing, I have no idea how anyone can take grimderp "even highest echelons of AM don't know how a toaster works" idiocy over it. Technology is scary, yes, but DAoT one. Not what Imperium is using. If AM can design and produce hurricane bolters (a very complex and complicated weapon system that nevertheless works flawlessly), bolt rifles should pose no problem whatsoever. Ditto for Mk X armour, they designed Mk VIII, so adding a few bits from Mk IV to that and calling it a day should be trivial. Yet, grimderp proponents say doing stuff that already happened in old lore dozens of times somehow makes Cawl a mary sue and he should focus on venerating toasters instead. Gee, I have no idea why people might object to that

 Crimson wrote:
Right. So the drop lieutenant doesn't even have a reiver comat knife that would give an extra attack, he just has normal CCW that does absolutely nothing. He however has 'knife fighter' special rule, which means that hit rolls of six generate two hits in melee... So pretty much the same end result than if he just had the reiver knife for one extra attack. Utterly pointless. And someone really spend time to write this CC rule for this character which utterly sucks in melee, because he doesn't have a real melee weapon...

It is also unfortunate that even though the reiver knife and chainsword have identical rules, they're different entries, so you still cannot give the captain the Teeth of Terra...

The Primaris units themselves seem nice, but the characters are a complete fail. The Librarian might be good, depending on the powers. It would be unlikely that they'd be worse than standard librarius powers...

To be fair, LTs rule has potential to be much better than combat knife if you luck out with rolls. But yeah, I don't get why Vanguards have 4 different rifles between them when 2 would have sufficed (give captain MC bolt sniper and LT MC marksman carbine and call it a day) and no melee weapon access. The rules also stink of forced 'flavour' instead of balance certain terribad GW writer (who I won't mention to not trigger his blinker defence brigade) loves so much, but at least the lot looks kind of usable and is a handful of buffs here and there away from being good. Hopefully points are OK too, but it does look like a much better effort than the first take at Primaris rules GW did. If only D2 wasn't slapped on everything these days...

 Asherian Command wrote:
or they leaked it on purpose.

Really?

If this leak doesn't prove once and for all GW doesn't do leaks, I don't know what will. Think logically, what interest they might have in publishing garbage, potato picture of their products showing them in bad light when they can publish perfect pictures on WC they had made long ago whenever they want?

The silence is interesting, though, I imagine the backlash threatening to sink their new big release before it had even landed had sent them scrambling looking for any possible way out of this...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I wonder how hard it is going to be to convert Reiver models into Infiltrators.

They actually have dozens of small differences, certain delusions notwithstanding. But, if you don't care about getting everything 100% perfect, I'd imagine helmet swap (especially to DW pattern) and slight bolter/backpack conversions would suffice to get the point across, especially if you mixed in any leftover Infiltrator bits...

 Virules wrote:
I am very skeptical of a Black Legion codex, given that BL and Abbadon are the core poster boys of the main CSM codex the same way Ultramarines are the poster boy for the SM codex.

I thought BL had a codex in 6th edition, no?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I wonder how hard it is going to be to convert Reiver models into Infiltrators.

They actually have dozens of small differences, certain delusions notwithstanding. But, if you don't care about getting everything 100% perfect, I'd imagine helmet swap (especially to DW pattern) and slight bolter/backpack conversions would suffice to get the point across, especially if you mixed in any leftover Infiltrator bits...

That is what I was figuring. I am not expecting a full 1:1, but I think converting the backpacks should be easy enough. Throwing extra Infiltrator bits on them should help. At least that is my hope. They don't have chest aquila, which helps significantly. At least then I can put some of my Reiver models to use.

Small nitpick - they don't have aquilas, but reiver swords-and-skull emblem on chest is different than bones-and-skull of infiltrators. It's a very small detail, though, probably not really visible especially if the rifle is raised high. Reivers also have grenades on chest infiltrators lack, but meh, maybe this infiltrator just took extra load or something.

Funnily enough I was pondering converting my reivers into 'light' intercessor squad with some spare rifles seeing GW seems to have no idea how to fix them, but yeah, going for infiltrators instead might be better idea...

casvalremdeikun wrote:the grenades are actually separate bits

Not on ETB reivers, though.

Quasistellar wrote:Yeah that captain. . .

Between awkward sculpt and unfortunate weapons limitations (which so fair they are batting 1000 on primaris characters having poor weapons combinations) that captain is full on bleh. I feel like they’re purposely handicapping primaris HQs at this point so as not to invalidate regular HQs

If so, they are pretty stupid as any min-maxer will tell you bike, pack, or TDA suit of oldmarines is worth more than +1 wound and all it does it shooting new, shiny range in the foot...

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Looking at my Deathwatch list I'd be looking at swapping out 5 intercessors for the funky new infiltrators to give them a go and also may drop 5 hellblasters for the suppressors for a bit of long range firepower

Speaking of DW, I wonder how new guys will work with them. I can already see tears if the new guys can take SIA for their bolt weapons for usual price

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
One Primaris kit has zero options, those are the Reivers (unless you call losing your gun in favour of a knife an "option").

Yup, because heavy bolt pistols don't exist. Must be my imagination or something.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The rest have 2 opitons, except those lucky Hellblasters who have 3!

What are Intercessors for 200? Or vehicles and captains/lieutenants for that matter?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So odds on the Suppressors' full kill will have two guns.

Except this is not a starter set so it makes no sense for GW to make new ETB kits to sell for a month or so. These will be full kits if Infiltrators are any indication.

Sotahullu wrote:
I just don't understand why Primaris Marines have such dull options to begin with.

That is the appeal to Space Marines to begin with: Flexbility.

As compared to what? Tactical marine with his bolter, bolter, or bolter? Or assault one with chainsword/pistol?

I never got that complaint, their primaris equivalents have real choices changing how the whole unit plays, if 'dull', and only require full access to sarge table to be able to do much grater range of stuff than old squads ever could. And that is the problem with dumb GW rule writer, not their models. Of course, if they did have all the old options, then local complaint brigade would just switch to 'squat' tune...

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

If Raven Guard (and others) would be the sneaky marines - who would be the best fit for the SAMAS Marines?

WD Crimson Fists? Run the 3 man minimum so you are almost always out numbered, have 2+ to hit standing still and 3+ after moving.

I'd say Salamanders, you'll statistically fail to hit or wound once, which if fixed by their CT. The unit also fits their dragon theme pretty well...

 Asherian Command wrote:
honestly with the deathwatch they should just be a supplement army with no troop choices. They should be the elites of the chapter. They should not be a solo army.

Yup, because they always operate with others and totally not undertake 95% of missions on their own

What next, delete all the various Codex:SM books and make Tactical Squad elite choice in IG?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Virules wrote:
However, reading the ADB books, it seems to me that Abbadon wasn't just huge, he was unusually similar to Horus in size and resemblance to the point where he could be almost be a Primarch.

The key part of that sentence is "ADB". He always inflates certain characters beyond reasonable limits (like Khayon and that ridiculous sword of his).

He also has unrivaled access to published and unpublished background material directly from the people who have determined the entire setting. Not to mention that his books are referenced as core canon more and more frequently by GW.

And Abaddon being the "spitting image of Horus" to the point where people thought he was a clone has LOOOONG been a part of the lore

Pity no one gave the memo to sculptor of 30K Abby. Put him next to Horus and tell me with a straight face they are similar.

Or you know, the guy who wrote Gathering Storm. Particularly the scene where standing Celestine stabs Armless in the back on chest level, which only makes sense if he is terminator sized. If he was primarch sized, he would be stabbed by her in more ways than obvious one

 Haighus wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

GrinNfool wrote:

Suppressors strangely do not have the phobos keyword so they aren't a valid target.

It's not that strange... They're not wearing Phobos armour.

Hopefully the keyword gets added to Reivers. They should also synergise with the Vanguard Marines. Reivers are even the first Marines who touched down in the strike force attacking Nemendghast...

Yeah, I hope Vanguard book has updated sheet for them too. Would solve so many of their issues at a stroke given even remotely competent writer.

Sadly, chances for that are close to zero...

EonChao wrote:

Codex Chaos 2nd edition page 98:
He worshipped the Warmaster like a god and Horus treated him as his most favoured son, indeed some whispered that he was in truth the clone-son of the Primarch himself, product of the earliest Primogenitor experimentation.

It doesn't mention size though, just looks. Also, now that we know HH timeline, it simply doesn't make any sense, Abby was a (Cthonian born) marine long before EC were even really existed as a legion...

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Warhammer Community wrote:Suppressors specialise in rapid responses to heavily armoured enemy threats, entering battle either by dropping directly into the action via grav chutes or in long, bounding leaps with their jump packs.

So I guess the Supressors are posed as if they has jump packs because they they can have jump packs, they just don't, for whatever reason.

I thought quadruple thruster on back is supposed to be 'quiet' jump pack as opposed to standard, horrendously loud jet pack ones, no?

 Latro_ wrote:
lol remember when marines coveted older marks of armour because they were more reliable an simply better than newly produced stuff as mars had forgotten the old ways of producing them, prized possessions passed down as relics... when the lore was good. when marines were gothic grim dark superhuman knights and not jacked up solider dudes from call of duty black ops 40,000.

You mean, when grimdumb lore saw no contradiction between "this guy has armour 10.000 years old" and stating plasma, las and melta weaponry outright vaporizes it with ease (plus having standard apothecary seed extraction procedure being breaking chest plate in two)? When I was young, I always wondered how the frak anyone had armour 10 years old if it was as durable as used napkin, never mind 10 millennia old.

Also, I don't know if you time-traveled from 1999, but that ship sailed long ago. HH books, both by BL and FW, outright state VII is one of the best marks ever made, with VIII being best (and most coveted, given only to officers) before X appeared. And reliable? When that was? Everything before VI was described as unreliable or exceptionally demanding in maintenance junk pretty much from the start...

 Kirasu wrote:

 Nurglitch wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
New Marine Preview.

Floaty firehose Marines still look silly.

I really really like them, but then I have kind of a thing for space marines with Autocannons.

Oddly specific fetish since no loyalty marine in 40k has wielded an autocannon!

*cough*

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
I thought quadruple thruster on back is supposed to be 'quiet' jump pack as opposed to standard, horrendously loud jet pack ones, no?

Well, I was under the assumption that those were part of the whole 'parachute without a parachute' thing they have going on. And two of those thrusters are normal backpack vents. I really don't see how they could count as jetpacks when Inceptors have those huge engine jet harnesses.

No, vents are the 4 square things on the bottom. Round things are zero-g thrusters, there is even early art with marines and IG flying with them:



As for how this works, dunno. Maybe anti-grav plates make marine light enough the four thrusters can lift him for a few seconds?

And Inceptors are not a good counterexample as they are supposed to be able to drop from orbit without help. I'd imagine arresting fall from orbiting cruiser requires rather more energy than jumping from a plane...