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I'm surprised the Master of Possession doesn't have FLY after GW making a big deal about him floating around (both in the articles' fluff and on the actual model).

The Captain is interesting because he also has the deep strike denial. But wow is that Instigator Bolt Carbine hot garbage. Heavy 1? It should have been Rapid fire.

Can anyone see the number of attacks for the venom crawler? Seems like a make or break statistic for them.

Dudeface wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

At 9 wounds with no degradation I could see an argument for 140

It has very poor damage output and is too easily killed with T7 10 wounds and degrades, that 5++ is nice though,I am also comparing it to a contemptor that also can regen wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
Can anyone see the number of attacks for the venom crawler? Seems like a make or break statistic for them.

6 before it degrades

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I thought GW usually does a Community article on Saturdays? Did a Canadian steal their thunder? Have they become shook?

Most likely it is they who have leaked these datasheets, and not on their facebook page or any official channel to stem the furious backlash from all the long suffering Chaos players.

 XT-1984 wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I thought GW usually does a Community article on Saturdays? Did a Canadian steal their thunder? Have they become shook?

Most likely it is they who have leaked these datasheets, and not on their facebook page or any official channel to stem the furious backlash from all the long suffering Chaos players.

That doesn't seem to be in current character for GW to just throw caution to the wind and hope a leak goes well.

Its pretty interesting how they are late wonder what they are going to do. They still have most of it hidden. But they are probably searching for the guy who leaked or they leaked it on purpose.

 XT-1984 wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I thought GW usually does a Community article on Saturdays? Did a Canadian steal their thunder? Have they become shook?

Most likely it is they who have leaked these datasheets, and not on their facebook page or any official channel to stem the furious backlash from all the long suffering Chaos players.

Nah, it wasn't Games Workshop that leaked them. This was definitely not an intentional leak by any means.

Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me.

I'm saying they have leaked this through their 'leak department' because they know it will get negative feedback. Probably a lot of it.

Can't have that kind of negativity on their facebook page now can they?

 Formosa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

At 9 wounds with no degradation I could see an argument for 140

It has very poor damage output and is too easily killed with T7 10 wounds and degrades, that 5++ is nice though,I am also comparing it to a contemptor that also can regen wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
Can anyone see the number of attacks for the venom crawler? Seems like a make or break statistic for them.

6 before it degrades

How did you know its 6?

 XT-1984 wrote:
Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me.

I'm saying they have leaked this through their 'leak department' because they know it will get negative feedback. Probably a lot of it.

Can't have that kind of negativity on their facebook page now can they?

So you're saying that they intentionally leaked it, but not to drive up hype - instead because they anticipated loud dakkanerds would gak up their Facebook page and this way they remain clean?

That's quite the theory. Explosively ridiculous. I like you.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me.

I'm saying they have leaked this through their 'leak department' because they know it will get negative feedback. Probably a lot of it.

Can't have that kind of negativity on their facebook page now can they?

Look at where the leaks came from. That's all I'm going to say!

 XT-1984 wrote:
Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me.

I'm saying they have leaked this through their 'leak department' because they know it will get negative feedback. Probably a lot of it.

Can't have that kind of negativity on their facebook page now can they?

Why would you make rules if you know its going to make your customer mad? Wouldn't you just make better rules? Even error on the side of over powered because you have an inbuilt system to adjust down?

I'm not sure what your trying to get across makes sense from GW's perspective.

Well if you're a member of many 40k facebook groups like I am you'd see they are all on fire about how bad the Chaos half is right now.

Personally I'll wait for the stratagems, relics and warlord traits first but there is no denying people are worked up about it.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Well if you're a member of many 40k facebook groups like I am you'd see they are all on fire about how bad the Chaos half is right now.

Personally I'll wait for the stratagems, relics and warlord traits first but there is no denying people are worked up about it.

I politics any press is good press. In gaming communities bad press is less money. Video games and movies can be sunk by bad early reviews and leaks. Lots of people will back off of coolish models with poor rules. Nobody will back off of coolish models with good/great or OP rules. Even if 2 months later the inevitable nerf bat smashes the good times.

It just makes no sense to generate bad PR if your trying to selling something to a niche community with a chip on its shoulder and the constant threat of withholding money.

I should point out, that it's a box set and there are probably going to be some rules that supercede those in said box. Chill out, folks.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I should point out, that it's a box set and there are probably going to be some rules that supercede those in said box. Chill out, folks.

I don't think anyone is angry at all. We are just waiting to see it, and most of are more eager about models than the rules

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I thought GW usually does a Community article on Saturdays? Did a Canadian steal their thunder? Have they become shook?

They only usually do a ‘this is what’s up for preorder today’ type article on Saturdays.

I don't understand the fuss about the chaos half - like it has been said by someone previously, all those rules will most likely change in a few month.
The guy at french wargaming studio said in a live that a black legion codex is coming later this year, most certainly with or after Abaddon. What matter is the new minis.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The Captain is interesting because he also has the deep strike denial. But wow is that Instigator Bolt Carbine hot garbage. Heavy 1? It should have been Rapid fire.

Yeah I thought it was assault 2. Heavy 1 is underwhelming - but again most primaris units have been underwhelming.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
Either I'm not understanding you or you're not understanding me.

I'm saying they have leaked this through their 'leak department' because they know it will get negative feedback. Probably a lot of it.

Can't have that kind of negativity on their facebook page now can they?

Why would you make rules if you know its going to make your customer mad? Wouldn't you just make better rules? Even error on the side of over powered because you have an inbuilt system to adjust down?

I'm not sure what your trying to get across makes sense from GW's perspective.

GW releases forces they know are wildly unbalanced and are largely apathetic to that, so there is at least a grain of plausibility there...

WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand the fuss about the chaos half - like it has been said by someone previously, all those rules will most likely change in a few month.
The guy at french wargaming studio said in a live that a black legion codex is coming later this year, most certainly with or after Abaddon. What matter is the new minis.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The Captain is interesting because he also has the deep strike denial. But wow is that Instigator Bolt Carbine hot garbage. Heavy 1? It should have been Rapid fire.

Yeah I thought it was assault 2. Heavy 1 is underwhelming - but again most primaris units have been underwhelming.

I am very skeptical of a Black Legion codex, given that BL and Abbadon are the core poster boys of the main CSM codex the same way Ultramarines are the poster boy for the SM codex.

 Virules wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Venom crawler is worse than a dread at the moment, so it better be around the 80-100pt mark, those stats a do not warrant any higher a cost.

At 9 wounds with no degradation I could see an argument for 140

It has very poor damage output and is too easily killed with T7 10 wounds and degrades, that 5++ is nice though,I am also comparing it to a contemptor that also can regen wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
Can anyone see the number of attacks for the venom crawler? Seems like a make or break statistic for them.

6 before it degrades

How did you know its 6?

It was on a chapter master valrak video, looked like 6

 Virules wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand the fuss about the chaos half - like it has been said by someone previously, all those rules will most likely change in a few month.
The guy at french wargaming studio said in a live that a black legion codex is coming later this year, most certainly with or after Abaddon. What matter is the new minis.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The Captain is interesting because he also has the deep strike denial. But wow is that Instigator Bolt Carbine hot garbage. Heavy 1? It should have been Rapid fire.

Yeah I thought it was assault 2. Heavy 1 is underwhelming - but again most primaris units have been underwhelming.

I am very skeptical of a Black Legion codex, given that BL and Abbadon are the core poster boys of the main CSM codex the same way Ultramarines are the poster boy for the SM codex.

Apparently, according to french wargame studio again (and he's always half joking, playing with his friend saying he has seen Abaddon's new rules and not them), the black legion codex is supposed to come after Abaddon later this year.
Who knows, he was also saying that there is a new space marine codex coming and that will make them a really agressive army (understable if they all have deepstrike right ?).

 Crimson wrote:
Right. So the drop lieutenant doesn't even have a reiver comat knife that would give an extra attack, he just has normal CCW that does absolutely nothing. He however has 'knife fighter' special rule, which means that hit rolls of six generate two hits in melee... So pretty much the same end result than if he just had the reiver knife for one extra attack. Utterly pointless. And someone really spend time to write this CC rule for this character which utterly sucks in melee, because he doesn't have a real melee weapon...

It is also unfortunate that even though the reiver knife and chainsword have identical rules, they're different entries, so you still cannot give the captain the Teeth of Terra...

The Primaris units themselves seem nice, but the characters are a complete fail. The Librarian might be good, depending on the powers. It would be unlikely that they'd be worse than standard librarius powers...

To be fair, LTs rule has potential to be much better than combat knife if you luck out with rolls. But yeah, I don't get why Vanguards have 4 different rifles between them when 2 would have sufficed (give captain MC bolt sniper and LT MC marksman carbine and call it a day) and no melee weapon access. The rules also stink of forced 'flavour' instead of balance certain terribad GW writer (who I won't mention to not trigger his blinker defence brigade) loves so much, but at least the lot looks kind of usable and is a handful of buffs here and there away from being good. Hopefully points are OK too, but it does look like a much better effort than the first take at Primaris rules GW did. If only D2 wasn't slapped on everything these days...

 Asherian Command wrote:
or they leaked it on purpose.

Really?

If this leak doesn't prove once and for all GW doesn't do leaks, I don't know what will. Think logically, what interest they might have in publishing garbage, potato picture of their products showing them in bad light when they can publish perfect pictures on WC they had made long ago whenever they want?

The silence is interesting, though, I imagine the backlash threatening to sink their new big release before it had even landed had sent them scrambling looking for any possible way out of this...

I wonder how hard it is going to be to convert Reiver models into Infiltrators. Hopefully the kit has plenty of extra rifles the way the Intercessor Squad does.

Also, I would place money on there being 10 Infiltrators in the box, not 5, based on the datasheet. You are required to have a full squad of 5 in order to add a 6th Marine in the form of the Helix Adept. My guess it is two sets of the same sprue and you can build either a Helix Adept or a Sergeant out of the same model.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Virules wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:
I don't understand the fuss about the chaos half - like it has been said by someone previously, all those rules will most likely change in a few month.
The guy at french wargaming studio said in a live that a black legion codex is coming later this year, most certainly with or after Abaddon. What matter is the new minis.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
The Captain is interesting because he also has the deep strike denial. But wow is that Instigator Bolt Carbine hot garbage. Heavy 1? It should have been Rapid fire.

Yeah I thought it was assault 2. Heavy 1 is underwhelming - but again most primaris units have been underwhelming.

I am very skeptical of a Black Legion codex, given that BL and Abbadon are the core poster boys of the main CSM codex the same way Ultramarines are the poster boy for the SM codex.

Apparently, according to french wargame studio again (and he's always half joking, playing with his friend saying he has seen Abaddon's new rules and not them), the black legion codex is supposed to come after Abaddon later this year.
Who knows, he was also saying that there is a new space marine codex coming and that will make them a really agressive army (understable if they all have deepstrike right ?).

Well, InControl hinted in a recent podcast that later this year Space Marines will become a brutally good army better than anything else, so those rumors line up.

On the SM side I'm liking the Infiltrators soley because they are new troops with alternative deployment. Characters seem meh at best. The drop autocannon guys have potential due to the grav shoots. Also fun those guys are using the sicaran tank weapon for another heresy throw back. Might have potential in a CC list like blood angels stopping overwatch.

Looking forward to all the chaos models, especially the oblits, but really only matters if DG can take anything.

Drop LT as part of a Crimson Fists Liberator Detachment means on demand access to both reroll auras at once to support other deep strike elements.

Lemondish wrote:
Drop LT as part of a Crimson Fists Liberator Detachment means on demand access to both reroll auras at once to support other deep strike elements.

Eliminators also use bolt sniper rifles and mortis ammo gives you +2 to hit. That combos pretty nicely with Bolter Drill. Not to mention Slay The Tyrant is a thing. Hopefully, we get squads of 5 or 6 Eliminators so that they are worth using stratagems on.

Wow the Primaris with the canons look great!… And the Spider seems to be just the right size,