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2019/03/01 23:38:22
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Hotrod wrote: So I got to look at the rules for Shadowspear early. I don't want to post the actual pictures of the rules, as to not trace them back to my source that sent them to me, but I do have some info.
Spoiler:
Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".
Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).
That's all I have. I can give more specifics if anybody likes for statlines. I don't have points values, I'm afraid, but I do have power levels.
Did you happen to see any pics of the fig or new artwork of Abaddon in the rules or possible fluff booklet?
2019/03/01 23:39:05
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
JohnnyHell wrote: The only helmet options Abaddon will have are what colours to paint the helmets impaled on his trophy rack.
There will be zero chance you can make a helmeted version of Abaddon from the sprue. Wishing for one is setting oneself up for disappointment.
And yet Marneus Calgar has a helmeted option.
Of course Abaddon has a terminator armour so that is different but I woulnd't be that sure. (Of course I'm not expecting him to have a helmet, unlike the future primaris Azrael, that I really expect to have the option to have the winged helmet on)
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2019/03/01 23:42:10
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
JohnnyHell wrote: The only helmet options Abaddon will have are what colours to paint the helmets impaled on his trophy rack.
There will be zero chance you can make a helmeted version of Abaddon from the sprue. Wishing for one is setting oneself up for disappointment.
And yet Marneus Calgar has a helmeted option.
Of course Abaddon has a terminator armour so that is different but I woulnd't be that sure. (Of course I'm not expecting him to have a helmet, unlike the future primaris Azrael, that I really expect to have the option to have the winged helmet on)
Marneus isn't famous for his haircut (or lack there of). The top knot is, for better or worse, one of Abby's defining visual features and I sincerely doubt they'd cover it up.
2019/03/01 23:45:22
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Bobthehero wrote: Once again, these thing do no make headshot or headblows not happen, nor do they make heads proof agaisnt those things.
Edit: For that matter, where are my Guardsmen beating everything to death using Eartshaker cannons as a hammer, there are demons in the universe after all, so there should be no issues.
Exactly. While I like unhelmeted minis, I can understand why some don't like them. And pointing out that "it's a fictionnal world" is an extremely weak counter-argument
I dunno, a lot of people seem to not understand that their entire hobby is them interacting with art. Thus the needs of people interacting with art trump military autism, gun nut autism or any other brand of specialist subject pedantry.
There is no man fighting on a battlefield, ducking live fire. There's a small sculpture and a sculptor trying to convince you to invest yourself into his work.
2019/03/01 23:46:04
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Hotrod wrote: Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".
Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).
So, 3 CSM characters, 10 CSM, 3 oblits, and a tank vs 3 SM characters and 11 SM? Isn't that hilariously one-sided match? Unless there are multiple SM squads in the box?
2019/03/01 23:46:35
Subject: Re:Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Hotrod wrote: So I got to look at the rules for Shadowspear early. I don't want to post the actual pictures of the rules, as to not trace them back to my source that sent them to me, but I do have some info.
Spoiler:
Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".
Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).
That's all I have. I can give more specifics if anybody likes for statlines. I don't have points values, I'm afraid, but I do have power levels.
Did you happen to see any pics of the fig or new artwork of Abaddon in the rules or possible fluff booklet?
Unfortunately not, no. The only stuff I got to see were pictures of the actual datasheets. It seems that Abaddon won't be in the box itself.
What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight? Twin-linked.
2019/03/01 23:46:35
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
JohnnyHell wrote: The only helmet options Abaddon will have are what colours to paint the helmets impaled on his trophy rack.
There will be zero chance you can make a helmeted version of Abaddon from the sprue. Wishing for one is setting oneself up for disappointment.
And yet Marneus Calgar has a helmeted option.
Of course Abaddon has a terminator armour so that is different but I woulnd't be that sure. (Of course I'm not expecting him to have a helmet, unlike the future primaris Azrael, that I really expect to have the option to have the winged helmet on)
Abaddon has the mark of chaos ascendant on his forehead. I doubt he's getting a helmet.
2019/03/01 23:48:50
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
casvalremdeikun wrote: Hotrod, do the suppressor squads have any way to mitigate the -1 to hit they're going to get when they drop in with their grav chutes?
Also what's the breakdown in the box of the included Squads? Is it just one Squad of each?
No, but they DO have smoke launchers, which is interesting.
And yeah, it seems to just be a squad of each, just like any regular box set.
What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight? Twin-linked.
2019/03/01 23:54:55
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Pretty disappointing to see that the greater possessed are basically elite characters, rather than an upgraded version/replacement for the possessed unit. I don't think a +1S aura is gonna cut it, even if they are reasonably priced, since possessed's main issue has more to do with their random D3 attacks. It also looks like they won't have any options then. Will their weapons be the same as the possessed? I hope they at least have multiple damage on their weapons given their bulk.
2019/03/01 23:57:35
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Grimskul wrote: Pretty disappointing to see that the greater possessed are basically elite characters, rather than an upgraded version/replacement for the possessed unit. I don't think a +1S aura is gonna cut it, even if they are reasonably priced, since possessed's main issue has more to do with their random D3 attacks. It also looks like they won't have any options then. Will their weapons be the same as the possessed? I hope they at least have multiple damage on their weapons given their bulk.
Yeah, I'm disappointed as well. I was hoping for newer, better Possessed Marines (mainly as an excuse to buy some Gal Vorbak), but this is ok too, I guess. They have a Force Stave, interestingly enough. S+2, AP-1, D3 damage.
What do you call a lasgun with a laser sight? Twin-linked.
2019/03/02 00:20:15
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
ph34r wrote: Primaris Possessed seems appropriate to me because fluff-wise they have been teasing chaos really wanting some of that sweet Primaris Marine action. It seems like a no-brainer that these would be Primaris-tier.
Also according to the fluff, Fabius Bile has technically had his hands on what in retrospect seems like Primaris bodies for quite a while now. Years before they showed up for the Imperials.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/02 00:29:30
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
2019/03/02 00:31:01
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
casvalremdeikun wrote: try being in the actual Army and taking your helmet off when there are live rounds flying and see how that works out for you. If you don't get shot in the head your ass will get tackled to the ground by literally everyone surrounding you.
Weird since helmets in war were only a thing since the First World War to protect you from--debris. There's a reason the French first used fireman's helmets. Modern helmets don't stop bullets either.
There is though a wargaming convention where personalities, even Sgts, are unhelmed so you know who the big mojos are. Please don't use the word reality in the same sentence as 40K. Thanks.
Will this box will be full on new monopose units with 'proper' squad boxs later?
2019/03/02 01:05:07
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Did you skip the whole pre n1600's period where metal helmets were sometimes the only metal armor some people could get?
And once again, if we can remove reality from 40k, where are my Guardsmen jumping in the air to go punch Ork spaceships? Or Eldars throwing suns at Tau who then swallow them. Its all dumb, but apparently its okay because reality shouldn't be mentionned in 40k.
Hotrod wrote: So I got to look at the rules for Shadowspear early. I don't want to post the actual pictures of the rules, as to not trace them back to my source that sent them to me, but I do have some info.
Spoiler:
Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".
Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).
That's all I have. I can give more specifics if anybody likes for statlines. I don't have points values, I'm afraid, but I do have power levels.
But the Chaos marine in the background to the right has what looks like a melta gun, not a plasma.
2019/03/02 01:10:45
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Conflicted about the idea that the chaos marines are mono-pose. My hope is that means they'll get a full kit later, or that the kit inside the box IS the full kit, but the Shadowspear rules are much like they were in Forgebane: two specific forces fighting against each other.
If they are mono-pose, and they get another kit on top of that, that would make for a lot of great variety and conversion opportunities. But if they're mono-pose and DON'T get another kit, then we have the Chaos Cultist issue all over again where they never get a proper multi-part kit and we have the same models across the world.
2019/03/02 01:35:41
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
Ok so IF these rumours are true then I will hold off on any purchase of the chaos stuff, I have no interest in monopose models, the possessed IF true are also a no go for me, I want a proper possessed unit, not a couple of characters that buff a bad unit to be slightly less bad, the spider tanks sounds interesting, but again if its a QF kit I will wait for the multipart one.
all based on IF its true.
2019/03/02 01:55:59
Subject: Shadow Spear & Vigilus II - guest appearance by Abaddon!
That locked chaos marine squad loadout strongly implies that.
You mean the one that doesn't feature meltagun and heavy bolter, two weapons we know exist in the box seeing they were in promo video? That one?
Also, like I noted above, 14 SM vs 20 CSM when the latter have a tank and oblits makes me doubt the whole thing. Compared to Dark Imperium, CSM side is actually larger than DG was, while SM are actually much smaller, by 1.5 squads...
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