Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

try being in the actual Army and taking your helmet off when there are live rounds flying and see how that works out for you. If you don't get shot in the head your ass will get tackled to the ground by literally everyone surrounding you.

Personally I'm not bothered by the helmets being off because it's something I can correct fairly easily I just wish they would make the option on the kit always there. I've converted several different models with the helmet on the hip into helmeted models. It's actually a pretty easy thing to do even if it's a pewter model (the chaplain on a bike was a challenge but not impossible}. this model seems like it's going to be fairly easy to accomplish that with I just hate that I even have to do it. there is more than likely going to be extra helmets for me to work with including one that resembles the helmet he has though.

Games Workshop was doing a really good job at one point of having options for helmeted and unhelmeted models on the sprue. I just hate that they've taken a step back.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Games Workshop was doing a really good job at one point of having options for helmeted and unhelmeted models on the sprue. I just hate that they've taken a step back.

Well we haven't seen the sprues yet, so there is still a chance he has the option. That said, unless the bionic eye is detachable there is no way the helmet on his belt would fit him anyway.

alleus wrote:Incessant whining? Geez, it's just that some of us prefer our soldiers with helmets. Especially "tactical" marines like these. It was even referenced in one of the short stories:
‘Arcturos three down,’ Gerio said into his vox, secure in the knowledge that not a whisper of sound would escape his skull-faced helm.

It's good then that he still has his helmet on his person, instead of the decades of sculpts when they haven't had even that.

Stuff like that is cool to me. Exposing your head and shouting instead of calmly and quietly issuing orders seems silly, more so when these guys are said to work quite the opposite way to regular marines, with their zealous screaming etc.

I don't really see the impression of him "shouting" personally - rather more of a snarl than a shout.

Besides, we all know why GW do it - to showcase their painting, sculpting, and to make their leaders stand out with more individuality.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Games Workshop was doing a really good job at one point of having options for helmeted and unhelmeted models on the sprue. I just hate that they've taken a step back.

Well we haven't seen the sprues yet, so there is still a chance he has the option. That said, unless the bionic eye is detachable there is no way the helmet on his belt would fit him anyway.

someone pointed out earlier that his cloak is modeled to fit around his helmet so it's unlikely that he has a helmeted head but I agree it's still possible. I'm sure I could figure out something to put there that would fit underneath that cloak to simulate the ripple that the helmet leaves. I don't quite know offhand what that would be. I worry that the helmet will be molded to the cloak. That significantly increases the difficulty of removing it without wrecking the model. be it that I probably won't be using this guy in the first place it's going to just be a matter of getting him a head that doesn't look is silly to me. you'll get one of the unhelmeted heads from the Imperial Fists upgrade sprue.

I'm a little bit disappointed in the wording of the Liberator Strike Force because all these dudes rocking Reiver armor could have theoretically benefited from the Detachment if it said Reivers. I guess if the keyword is still there they could.

Same thing happens in movies. Heroes come in wearing masks or helmets, there's a pause in action so headgear comes off, then the helmet is left behind. It's for individuality and expression.

I prefer helmets myself but I get why it's done. His model looks very easy to convert if it's moulded that way, but I hope the helmet option exists.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
I'm familiar with the concept of reconnaissance in force—but what I'm saying is that there's not actually any mention of said intel gathering. No discussion of "preparing the way for the main Space Marine force" no "Marked for Death" feeling from any of what they said. They don't actually say anything other than briefly mentioning "reconnaissance" and something about the "tip of the spear". Presumably, if you get poked with the tip of the spear, the rest of the spear is set to follow. But instead all we really get is "We work alone—without aid from the main force, and we use isometric warefare techniques and terror tactics to systematically take the enemy down piece by piece from the shadows before emerging to perform the killing blow". That's not Recon—that's describing Nightlords without the ridiculous bat wing hats.

No, that's pretty much describing real life spetsnaz. Scouts from 10th company do light recon, these guys do recon by force destroying identified targets and assaulting positions of potential or unknown marks, main SM force smashes enemy bereft of air/artillery support, logistics, and command structures destroyed by vanguard. What's the problem with that again? Sure, spetsnaz did recon too but you simply don't waste time of elite assault units doing tasks that can be done by other assets of overall commander but you tell them to do stuff they were meant for.

 Nostromodamus wrote:
Did I say it bothered me?

As a gun nut I love this stuff because it highlights the madness of technology in 40k. Even something as mundane as a bolt weapon has pointless bits on it because to alter the design would be heretical.

"Gun nut"? Gee, if only there were weapons like that in real life used by recon forces...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS-1_Tishina
https://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/izdelie-d-eng/
https://modernfirearms.net/en/grenade-launchers/russia-grenade-launchers/izdelie-dm-eng/

You were saying?

 Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

Yeah, it's not like last war where people tried to go without before being plainly shown how utterly stupid not wearing a helmet is ended over a century ago now... Waitamoment

That Captain should be setting the standard. This guy doesn't wear a helmet or shave, who knows what else he is doing? Maybe this lack of discipline is the REAL reason the Shadowspear got wiped out!

I definitely prefer the helmet. Hopefully Abaddon will have the option.

Still interested in the set, but I'm not too enthused by this guy or the Posessed guy from yesterday. A shorter hype cycle with more shown at once might be a better way to go in the future...

For some reason comparing Vanguard Marines to Spetsnazs makes… sense if going by job description.


Although I seriously wonder how Marine Chapters are now organized when it seems that these Vanguard marines are from 2nd Company:

The Vanguard Space Marines of Strike Force Shadowspear hail from the Ultramarines 2nd Company and fought with distinguished honour alongside Roboute Guilliman himself at the forefront of the Indomitus Crusade.

The only helmet options Abaddon will have are what colours to paint the helmets impaled on his trophy rack.

There will be zero chance you can make a helmeted version of Abaddon from the sprue. Wishing for one is setting oneself up for disappointment.

My guess is that each company has a Vanguard "chamber", or at least each company that needs one.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
try being in the actual Army and taking your helmet off when there are live rounds flying and see how that works out for you. If you don't get shot in the head your ass will get tackled to the ground by literally everyone surrounding you.

I certainly remember that the next time I'm in a real army, dropping from the orbit to fight the psychic space fungi with my chainsaw!

Once again, these thing do no make headshot or headblows not happen, nor do they make heads proof agaisnt those things.

Edit: For that matter, where are my Guardsmen beating everything to death using Eartshaker cannons as a hammer, there are demons in the universe after all, so there should be no issues.

They make heroes without helmets because they look more heroic and recognizable when you can see their face, it has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting realism... same reason they do tons of other similar stuff throughout all their ranges. They will always go for rule of cool over realism and you shouldn't expect otherwise. The answer to the question "But they would shoot him in the head, wouldn't they?" is always "who gives a gak, he looks cooler before he dies"

I really hope we have more than just elite choices for the primaris.

It would be helpful if we had more options currently.

so far we have a lot of things that could potentially happen.

The chaos group looks interesting, as they seem to have a troop choice, an elite choice (possessed), heavy support (venom crawler and obliterator), and an HQ choice.

I hope the marines get the same force chart. Or some fast attack options and heavy support. We got enough elite choices as is.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Once again, these thing do no make headshot or headblows not happen, nor do they make heads proof agaisnt those things.

The point is that this whole universe is based on style over realism. Do you think that a chainsword is practical weapon? It isn't, but it looks cool. Similarly a grizzled veteran marine shouting without a helmet looks cool. If you care about what would be realistic or practical, you're in the wrong franchise to begin with.

 alleus wrote:
My guess is that each company has a Vanguard "chamber", or at least each company that needs one.

What would they be in then in second company?

Are companies finally exceeding the 100 limit? Finally taking veterans into each company?

 Crimson wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Once again, these thing do no make headshot or headblows not happen, nor do they make heads proof agaisnt those things.

The point is that this whole universe is based on style over realism. Do you think that a chainsword is practical weapon? It isn't, but it looks cool. Similarly a grizzled veteran marine shouting without a helmet looks cool. If you care about what would be realistic or practical, you're in the wrong franchise to begin with.

Perhaps I think helmeted heroes are cooler?

And this sort of ''if yoiu don't like this thing out of the whole universe might mean you're in the wrong franchise'' kind of line gets old after a while. There are things I like about 40k and some I don't.

Moving on,

Todays Deamon Rumor Engine post would seem to indicate that the Deamon Engine gave its last leak before being purged. It was a pretty nifty looking Lighting Claw esk gauntlet.

I wonder if we will see an Imperial Rumor engine take over tomorrow, or if they will start to spill the beans on the whole boxset as a whole?

 Togusa wrote:
Moving on,

Todays Deamon Rumor Engine post would seem to indicate that the Deamon Engine gave its last leak before being purged. It was a pretty nifty looking Lighting Claw esk gauntlet.

I wonder if we will see an Imperial Rumor engine take over tomorrow, or if they will start to spill the beans on the whole boxset as a whole?

Maybe an aspiring champion?

So I got to look at the rules for Shadowspear early. I don't want to post the actual pictures of the rules, as to not trace them back to my source that sent them to me, but I do have some info.

Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".

Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest. Has combat knife too, same as Reivers.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it. Also has combat knife.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).

That's all I have. I can give more specifics if anybody likes for statlines. I don't have points values, I'm afraid, but I do have power levels.

 Slowroll wrote:
That Captain should be setting the standard. This guy doesn't wear a helmet or shave, who knows what else he is doing? Maybe this lack of discipline is the REAL reason the Shadowspear got wiped out!

I definitely prefer the helmet. Hopefully Abaddon will have the option.

Still interested in the set, but I'm not too enthused by this guy or the Posessed guy from yesterday. A shorter hype cycle with more shown at once might be a better way to go in the future...

He was probably to busy too call in an orbital strike because he had his hands in his pockets! The enemy found him because his socks didn't match his phobos armour!

What are the slots that each of squads take up, Hotrod? Thank you for the post by the way!

Hotrod wrote:
So I got to look at the rules for Shadowspear early. I don't want to post the actual pictures of the rules, as to not trace them back to my source that sent them to me, but I do have some info.

Chaos side :
1 Master of possession : Basically just a sorceror that knows 2 powers. Has 5++ save for being daemonkin
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.
1 Venomcrawler : 10 wounds, S6 (goes down to 5 and 4 per bracket). Armed with Excruciator Cannon (Assault D3, S+2, AP-2, D3 damage) and Eviscerating Claws (S+2, AP-3 and 3 damage), as well as Soulflayer Tendrils (S user, AP-2, 2 damage, does 2 additional attacks with this weapon). Blows up on a 5 and adds 1 to daemonic summoning rolls for Master of Possession within 6".

Space Marines :
Librarian in Phobos Armour : Librarian that can set up anywhere more than 9" away from enemy deployment zone and models. Also has a camo cloak, which adds 2 to saving throws in cover.
Captain in Phobos Armour : Same as Librarian, but is a captain. Armed with Master-Crafted Instigator Bolt-Carbine (what a mouthful). S4, AP-2, 2 damage, can target characters even if they're not the closest.
Lieutenant in Phobos Armour : Same as above. Has Master-Crafted Occulus Bolt Carbine, S4, AP0, D2, units don't get cover saves against it.
Eliminator Squad : Squad of 3 . They have bolt sniper rifles, two different ammo types. Both are heavy 1, 36" and S4. Executionner rounds are AP-2, D3 damage and rolls of 6 do mortal wounds. Mortis rounds are AP-1, 1 damage, can target units that aren't visible, they don't get cover and add 2(!) to hit rolls with these rounds. Also have the abilities of the librarian.
Infiltrator Squads : Squad of 5, can have up to 10 with an Infiltrator Helix Adept. Armed with Marksman Bolt Carbine, Rapid Fire 1, S4, AP0, 1 damage. Each unmodified hit of 6 does an instant hit and wound. Helix Adept is basically an apothecary, it can heal or revive a model from the unit.
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).

That's all I have. I can give more specifics if anybody likes for statlines. I don't have points values, I'm afraid, but I do have power levels.

LET'S HEAR ALL OF IT


Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretty please?

So neither the Captain or the Lieutenant really doesn't have a melee weapon?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What are the slots that each of squads take up, Hotrod? Thank you for the post by the way!

Right! Forgot about those.

Chaos :
Master of Possession is HQ.
Greater Possessed are Elites.
Venomcrawler is Heavy Support.


Eliminators are Heavy Support.
Suppressors are Fast Attack.
Infiltrators are Troops.
The characters are all HQs.

 Crimson wrote:
So neither the Captain or the Lieutenant really doesn't have a melee weapon?

They have combat knives, which are the same as Reivers. I'll update my original post with those.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Once again, these thing do no make headshot or headblows not happen, nor do they make heads proof agaisnt those things.

Edit: For that matter, where are my Guardsmen beating everything to death using Eartshaker cannons as a hammer, there are demons in the universe after all, so there should be no issues.

Exactly. While I like unhelmeted minis, I can understand why some don't like them. And pointing out that "it's a fictionnal world" is an extremely weak counter-argument

Hotrod wrote:

They have combat knives, which are the same as Reivers. I'll update my original post with those.

Thank you.

So these guys are useless in CC. Great. They can infiltrate next to the enemy, but not fight. I am disappointed.

So no new regular possesed. Thats.......dissapointing.

Really hope that theyl come in a later wave

 Crimson wrote:

Hotrod wrote:

They have combat knives, which are the same as Reivers. I'll update my original post with those.

Thank you.

So these guys are useless in CC. Great. They can infiltrate next to the enemy, but not fight. I am disappointed.

drop em onto an objective?

Hotrod, do the suppressor squads have any way to mitigate the -1 to hit they're going to get when they drop in with their grav chutes?

Also what's the breakdown in the box of the included Squads? Is it just one Squad of each?