Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines

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**Crimson**

Galef wrote:
I absolutely agree that in context, it makes very good business sense to focus on the factions prominently featured in a current campaign.
What doesn't make sense is that GW keeps choosing campaigns that have nothing to do with factions that could use the product update. Or missing the opportunity to release the product (the codex release or several 7E campaigns featuring Eldar would have been a great time to update Aspects for example)

It also makes me scratch my head when new kits are released before other, much needed ones even when the faction is being featured in a campaign.
The Obliterators in this release, for example are great. The kit was in dire need of a plastic update. Makes perfect sense. It will also make sense to be a dual kit with Mutilators, but time will tell.
Ya know what else needs an update and fits right in with Black Legion? Havocs. No sign that those are getting an update and they need it FAR more than Termies or Possessed

That. That is what doesn't make sense to me.
It has nothing to do with "my narrative" as an Eldar player that I want Aspect Warriors updated. I don't really even play Aspect Warriors and am skilled enough to convert my own when I do.
I want plastic Aspect Warriors out of a sense of completion. My OCD can't handle the fact that in 2019, the entire GW range is still not plastic
Everything should be made plastic BEFORE new kits are made for existing plastic kits.
It's as frustrating as when factions were getting 2+ Codices in a single edition when older factions were still 2-3 editions behind

Thsi was already discussed in length. Havocs are boring, they're just CSM with a heavy weapon. You might yet get new ones, and even if you don't with the new base CSM kit you're like 90% done; just glue some marine big guns on them. The Possessed are an unique chaos thing, and thus it makes sense to focus on them. The current approach is to differentiate the CSM from the loyalists, so focus is on stuff that's not just 'like loyalists, but with spikes.'

Furthermore, whilst I personally think that plastic is much better material than resin, not everyone agrees. FW stuff is resin, and is supposedly premium product (and certainly priced as such!) And considering that Aspect Warriors really have no gear options, nor they thematically need such, there is not actually much to be gained by turning them into plastic.

**Haighus**

Crimson wrote:
Galef wrote:
I absolutely agree that in context, it makes very good business sense to focus on the factions prominently featured in a current campaign.
What doesn't make sense is that GW keeps choosing campaigns that have nothing to do with factions that could use the product update. Or missing the opportunity to release the product (the codex release or several 7E campaigns featuring Eldar would have been a great time to update Aspects for example)

It also makes me scratch my head when new kits are released before other, much needed ones even when the faction is being featured in a campaign.
The Obliterators in this release, for example are great. The kit was in dire need of a plastic update. Makes perfect sense. It will also make sense to be a dual kit with Mutilators, but time will tell.
Ya know what else needs an update and fits right in with Black Legion? Havocs. No sign that those are getting an update and they need it FAR more than Termies or Possessed

That. That is what doesn't make sense to me.
It has nothing to do with "my narrative" as an Eldar player that I want Aspect Warriors updated. I don't really even play Aspect Warriors and am skilled enough to convert my own when I do.
I want plastic Aspect Warriors out of a sense of completion. My OCD can't handle the fact that in 2019, the entire GW range is still not plastic
Everything should be made plastic BEFORE new kits are made for existing plastic kits.
It's as frustrating as when factions were getting 2+ Codices in a single edition when older factions were still 2-3 editions behind

Thsi was already discussed in length. Havocs are boring, they're just CSM with a heavy weapon. You might yet get new ones, and even if you don't with the new base CSM kit you're like 90% done; just glue some marine big guns on them. The Possessed are an unique chaos thing, and thus it makes sense to focus on them. The current approach is to differentiate the CSM from the loyalists, so focus is on stuff that's not just 'like loyalists, but with spikes.'

Furthermore, whilst I personally think that plastic is much better material than resin, not everyone agrees. FW stuff is resin, and is supposedly premium product (and certainly priced as such!) And considering that Aspect Warriors really have no gear options, nor they thematically need such, there is not actually much to be gained by turning them into plastic.

I generally agree, although I think plastoc Havocs will look great- simply porting over loyalist weapons won't look as good as a dedicated kit. Just look at that awesome heavy bolter!

Also, Aspects definitely need plastics- the basic troopers don't have options, but the Exarchs sure do! Aspects basically combine their leader and special weapons trooper into one. Some Exarch weapons have not had available options for years, if ever. If you look at the Dire Avenger sprue, it is full of Exarch options- 4 in total.

**H.B.M.C.**

Anyone got that recent artwork of the Chaos Termy with the big mace?

Has that guy got trophy racks?

**Sotahullu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Anyone got that recent artwork of the Chaos Termy with the big mace?

Has that guy got trophy racks?

Yes. Heretical visions have indeed shown that hammer guy has big rack.on his back.

**Dudeface**

Sotahullu wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Anyone got that recent artwork of the Chaos Termy with the big mace?

Has that guy got trophy racks?

Yes. Heretical visions have indeed shown that hammer guy has big rack.on his back.

Yes. Back boobs at last!

**streetsamurai**

At this point, I'm pretty sure Eldar aspects will bever get some plastic kits. Theyll focus on the Ynari and quietly and slowly phase the aspects out.

I'm surprised most seem to think Chaos terminators are a bad kit. I think it still look pretty great, but I'm all for an update (but I sincerly doubt we'll get a new kit for them).

Must say that this box really emphase one of the reason I hate the primaris so much. Now the average CSM is smaller and weaker than the generic good guy. So not Grim dark

**casvalremdeikun**

streetsamurai wrote:
At this point, I'm pretty sure Eldar aspects will bever get some plastic kits. Theyll focus on the Ynari and quietly and slowly phase the aspects out.

I'm surprised most seem to think Chaos terminators are a bad kit. I think it still look pretty great, but I'm all for an update (but I sincerly doubt we'll get a new kit for them).

Must say that this box really emphase one of the reason I hate the primaris so much. Now the average CSM is smaller and weaker than the generic good guy. So not Grim dark

Ynnari use the aspects as well though, don't they? I don't see how Ynnari would preclude any plastic Aspect Warrior kits.

**Daedalus81**

streetsamurai wrote:
At this point, I'm pretty sure Eldar aspects will bever get some plastic kits. Theyll focus on the Ynari and quietly and slowly phase the aspects out.

I'm surprised most seem to think Chaos terminators are a bad kit. I think it still look pretty great, but I'm all for an update (but I sincerly doubt we'll get a new kit for them).

Must say that this box really emphase one of the reason I hate the primaris so much. Now the average CSM is smaller and weaker than the generic good guy. So not Grim dark

Well, the old termies don't meet the new proportions and would look tiny by comparison. As for grim dark - CSM can still go toe to toe and get an advantage with horrifying gibbering daemon engines.

**Darkseid**

I'll be mildly surprised if those turn out to be regular terminators instead of a specific unit like Justaerin.

Also I wonder what their upscaling means for the regular SM terminators and the entire range ...

**TwilightSparkles**

Know what makes business sense , big boxes of new models which are sellable to new players and owners of at least two existing armies.

Sales of Aspect Warriors are so bad most are GW direct only. Sure it’s a catch 22 situation but ultimately they didn’t decide to stiff Eldar players for the lols.

Nor is it neglecting niche factions - Sisters are getting a release based on a sustained campaign from fans which has persisted for years and kept alive by the supremely limited availability of very old overpriced models.

**H.B.M.C.**

But new sets of combo kits (Scorp/Dragon, Banshee/Hawk, Reaper/Spider) with all the plastic Exarch bits included, in small boxes of, say, 6 models (for the price of 10!) would be enough to bring them back and cut their SKU count in half (plus less resin in production).

It would also allow for more Start Collecting!/Battleforce style boxes that don't just always have Guardians/Dire Avengers.

Then they repurpose the CAD files for Jetbikes to do a Shining Spear kit and even make a new Ynnari-only Jetbike Aspect unit if they need to get more bang out of that buck.

Then recut or even redesign the Guardian sprue to be ~~more monopose~~ include Storm Guardian parts, and you cut out another type of conversion kit and give Eldar players a reason to purchase Guardians again.

But how 'bout them Chaos Marines, hey?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Dudeface wrote:
Sotahullu wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Anyone got that recent artwork of the Chaos Termy with the big mace?

Has that guy got trophy racks?

Yes. Heretical visions have indeed shown that hammer guy has big rack.on his back.

Yes. Back boobs at last!

Hey, don't judge. Slaanesh does weird things to a guy.

**Voss**

TwilightSparkles wrote:
Know what makes business sense , big boxes of new models which are sellable to new players and owners of at least two existing armies.

Sales of Aspect Warriors are so bad most are GW direct only. Sure it’s a catch 22 situation but ultimately they didn’t decide to stiff Eldar players for the lols.

Nor is it neglecting niche factions - Sisters are getting a release based on a sustained campaign from fans which has persisted for years and kept alive by the supremely limited availability of very old overpriced models.

Well, no. Sisters are happening because GW's survey gave them real numbers to take to management, something they couldn't do with angry internet fanatics. Or metal overstock they couldn't shift.

If, in the new survey, people respond with ' plastic aspects' the way they did with sisters, we'll see plastic aspects.

In the mean time, whatever chaos releases we're seeing isn't the result of kit X being 'too boring' because someone on the internet says so. In this cases the designers pushed for these kits and got a go ahead based on likely sales for one of many model lines that have been neglected. At least partly because the 8th Edition codex Rush is finished and they can do proper projects again.

**chaos45**

as a long time player...and well having played a lot of 8th edition at this point.....

If this box just has Chaos space marines...like mary sue 13ppm CSM....I don't care what they look like they are completely unplayable right now in 8th edition.

So it better include a major rules overhaul for the models included because right now Heretic Astartes are a junk faction...and the cultists nerf was just taking away points from a faction that already had a tough time in the current scene.

**Adeptus Doritos**

Not to derail the talk about TRAITOROUS SCUM THAT DESERVE A THOUSAND BOLTER ROUNDS TO THE BUTTHOLE AND POSSIBLY ALSO NOOGIES AND SWIRLIES...

...but serious question. These Primaris Vanguard- what company do you think this is? 10th? Everything I've been reading through on Space Marine company structures is kinda murky or gets a shrug whenever I try to figure out which company things like Reivers will go.

**H.B.M.C.**

They are the eventual replacement for the current Scout line.

**Slayer-Fan123**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But new sets of combo kits (Scorp/Dragon, Banshee/Hawk, Reaper/Spider)

That seems like a good way to separate them. That and a dual Windriders/Spears kit.

**Kanluwen**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:

...but serious question. These Primaris Vanguard- what company do you think this is? 10th? Everything I've been reading through on Space Marine company structures is kinda murky or gets a shrug whenever I try to figure out which company things like Reivers will go.

It seems like it will vary upon whether or not it is a pure Primaris Chapter or not.

Strike Force Shadowspear, for example, seems to be 2nd Company. Reivers are designated as "Close Support Elements"(same with Inceptors) and seem to be part of a Company at large.

**Red_Five**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Not to derail the talk about TRAITOROUS SCUM THAT DESERVE A THOUSAND BOLTER ROUNDS TO THE BUTTHOLE AND POSSIBLY ALSO NOOGIES AND SWIRLIES...

...but serious question. These Primaris Vanguard- what company do you think this is? 10th? Everything I've been reading through on Space Marine company structures is kinda murky or gets a shrug whenever I try to figure out which company things like Reivers will go.

The battleifld names have changed:

Battleline
Veteran
Close Support
Fire Support
Command

So each Company would have: 6 Battleline, 2 Close Support, 2 Fire Support, some Dreads and then the Command (a Captain and 2 Lieutenants). This gets a little murky with Primaris-Only and blended companies (that contain both Primaris and normal marines). In the end they try to keep it to around 100 men total but this is a little wonky with Inceptors and Aggressors being capped at 6 models, so you could easily have more than 10 squads in a Company (but it should work out to around 100 men).

Intersessors are Battleline
Reivers are Close Support
Aggressors are Fire Support
Hellblasters are Fire Support
Inceptors are Close Support

**GoatboyBeta**

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Not to derail the talk about TRAITOROUS SCUM THAT DESERVE A THOUSAND BOLTER ROUNDS TO THE BUTTHOLE AND POSSIBLY ALSO NOOGIES AND SWIRLIES...

...but serious question. These Primaris Vanguard- what company do you think this is? 10th? Everything I've been reading through on Space Marine company structures is kinda murky or gets a shrug whenever I try to figure out which company things like Reivers will go.

What little artwork we have so far shows the Vanguard with the gold trim usually used by the Ultramarines 2nd company. Putting aside artistic license I see a few possible explanations.

The 2nd company is now the Vanguard company. Sucks to be you if your non Vanguard Ultras(or other Codex compliant Chapter) have gold/yellow trim.

The Ultras have changed there heraldry and everyone now has gold trim. Sucks to be you if your boys in blue have any other colour on there shoulder pads.

Each company now has a Vanguard element. Just don't mention the 100 Marine size limit.

Same as above. But big papa smurf has turned in the first rough draft of his 2nd edition Codex and he's reconsidered the company and chapter size limits so he can fit in all the new toys Cawl made for him while he was in stasis.

Primaris Marines are not locked into a particular role, and will change there armour and weapons depending on the mission. But by the end of the Shadow Spear boxes storyline the Ultras have a mostly dead 2nd company(check out Vigilus page 122).

**darkcloak**

To add to the new Codex structure, squads can now be 5 or 10 Marines and there is an expanded heraldry section for squad symbols and numbers for squads above the tenth.

**Asherian Command**

quick question isn't the shadow spear battle's aftermath mentioned in the Vigilius Defiant book?

**GaroRobe**

Asherian Command wrote:
quick question isn't the shadow spear battle's aftermath mentioned in the Vigilius Defiant book?

I think the battle in Vigilius Defiant happens before Shadow Spear. Shadow Spear is sent in retaliation

**Kanluwen**

GaroRobe wrote:
Asherian Command wrote:
quick question isn't the shadow spear battle's aftermath mentioned in the Vigilius Defiant book?

I think the battle in Vigilius Defiant happens before Shadow Spear. Shadow Spear is sent in retaliation

Shadowspear is the event mentioned there.

**bullyboy**

There won't be new aspects unless GW has a reason to sell you more models. If (when) a Ynnari codex is released, they could then create hybrids as already mentioned with a 3rd option being more Ynnari focused and have a separate entry in the Ynnari codex.

**Drudge Dreadnought**

bullyboy wrote:
There won't be new aspects unless GW has a reason to sell you more models. If (when) a Ynnari codex is released, they could then create hybrids as already mentioned with a 3rd option being more Ynnari focused and have a separate entry in the Ynnari codex.

Aspects are stuck in a catch-22 where nobody would buy new models because the rules are bad and they don't really have a role in 8th, but it's a low priority to fix up the rules because nobody uses them. And Eldar are already good with other units, so they are low priority compared to Marines, which are very weak for their popularity/potential to sell kits.

**Togusa**

streetsamurai wrote:
At this point, I'm pretty sure Eldar aspects will bever get some plastic kits. Theyll focus on the Ynari and quietly and slowly phase the aspects out.

I'm surprised most seem to think Chaos terminators are a bad kit. I think it still look pretty great, but I'm all for an update (but I sincerly doubt we'll get a new kit for them).

Must say that this box really emphase one of the reason I hate the primaris so much. Now the average CSM is smaller and weaker than the generic good guy. So not Grim dark

Uh, the new CSM scupts from Death Guard, 1k Sons and BS fortress are all as tall as primaris....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
But new sets of combo kits (Scorp/Dragon, Banshee/Hawk, Reaper/Spider)

That seems like a good way to separate them. That and a dual Windriders/Spears kit.

you could also have each kit have the option for Exarch/Phoenix Lord and save even more space.

**H.B.M.C.**

And lose Goodwin's classic Phoenix Lords?

Never!!!

**MajorWesJanson**

When they come out with Emperors Children, that would be a good time for a battle box vs Eldar...

**BrianDavion**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
When they come out with Emperors Children, that would be a good time for a battle box vs Eldar...

we just had a box with eldar in the form of wake the dead. I can't say for sure but I suspect of all the boxes put out it was the worst selling. mostly because it was "yet another box with primaris" and was essentially competing with know no fear, yet charging far more. sadly GW'll look at it and decide that it's due to low eldar popularity I bet