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Well, by rubrics and scarabs are happy for this beta rule.
Sitting back and DAKKAing is an option now.

Stormbolter veterans of all factions became much more attractive.
IF might be a bit more attractive now because of bolter drill? (a tiny bit)
Inominus crusade intercessors are alot more attractive now (still expensive as hell CPwise)

Deathwatch might be too good with this ruling though.

DG need a new legion trait

Gryphonne wrote:
DG need a new legion trait

Well, we can move inside of 18 and still get rapid fire, so it's not totally useless. And we still have it on Plasma, too.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
DG need a new legion trait

Well, we can move inside of 18 and still get rapid fire, so it's not totally useless. And we still have it on Plasma, too.

But now it _only_ applies to Plague Marines.

Not sure this entirely solves the problem with Marines. If anything it makes the already good Deathwatch Marines even better without having a massive effect on regular ones, which just encourages anyone looking to play mass Marine infantry even further down the DWQ route. 13 points for 2 shots almost all the time is OK, but I still don't think it'll encourage anyone to take masses of Tacticals. It's also seems a little anti-fluffy since Marines are supposed to be highly mobile strike forces, but now are usually better off standing still, doing their best Tau impression.

I'm also not happy they're releasing these rules through WD and hope we'll see an interim FAQ update with this Beta rule in it as well.

My poor Neophytes! Their bums are grass!

OK, I guess it is nice. It is however comical at this point how they constantly keep making the rapid fire bolt rifle better when it already was the best choice...

Removed - BrookM


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slipspace wrote:
Not sure this entirely solves the problem with Marines. If anything it makes the already good Deathwatch Marines even better without having a massive effect on regular ones, which just encourages anyone looking to play mass Marine infantry even further down the DWQ route. 13 points for 2 shots almost all the time is OK, but I still don't think it'll encourage anyone to take masses of Tacticals. It's also seems a little anti-fluffy since Marines are supposed to be highly mobile strike forces, but now are usually better off standing still, doing their best Tau impression.

I'm also not happy they're releasing these rules through WD and hope we'll see an interim FAQ update with this Beta rule in it as well.

TBF, the unit that benefits from this probably the most out of anyone at all is Scout Bikes, who deathwatch don't get.

Deathwatch arguably lose out because they had Stalker boltguns prior to this, which are arguably obsolete at this point - why would I want one when I could just take a regular joe schmoe boltgun and fire at almost identical range. Regular deathwatch vet squads are going to be operating in exactly the same way they did previously - dropping in (where you wouldn't get the standing still bonus) and shooting things at half range.

I guess deathwatch Primaris are improved, but so are everyone's primaris.

Remaining Stationary and firing basically rapid fire at full range seems fine to me. Not so sure about the changes to Terminators and Bikes though. I think they need a different change from this. Hopefully this change isn't only because it's the poster boys that aren't doing well, and is a sign of more changes to come across the board. The game isn't really doing great as far as game balance is concerned.

Also, the cover of White Dwarf mentions Andy Chambers.....

the_scotsman wrote:
The one thing I have to say about this is suck a dick Custodes.

"We'Re NoT sPaCe MaRiNeS!!!"

Ya just had to be special snowflakes. Now you get whats comin to ya.

Somehow I don't feel even a little bit sorry...

 Crimson wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
The one thing I have to say about this is suck a dick Custodes.

"We'Re NoT sPaCe MaRiNeS!!!"

Ya just had to be special snowflakes. Now you get whats comin to ya.

Somehow I don't feel even a little bit sorry...

Custodes players never wanted to be called Marine players, they (and I) argue the exact opposite.

So case closed I hope.

Also yes, Dawn Eagle Jetbikes always firing 12 shots each would be ludicrous, so good job they aren't...

While this is a good step in the direction of GW admiting that Bolters as written don't cut it with current infantry points.
I'm not sure this helps the weaker bolters enough, but makes special ammo bolters creep into very competitive/OP land but basic tactical marines still languishing in the ok in friendly games only.

Index Imperialis: Assassins. This may be the route the go down if they want to revamp Inquisition.

Ice_can wrote:
While this is a good step in the direction of GW admiting that Bolters as written don't cut it with current infantry points.
I'm not sure this helps the weaker bolters enough, but makes special ammo bolters creep into very competitive/OP land but basic tactical marines still languishing in the ok in friendly games only.

Changes them up certainly. Sticking Tactical or Primaris dudes on an objective allows them to still contribute a reasonable amount of shooting against infantry.

What do you mean my Imperial Guard Sergeant isn't as good at shooting his boltgun as a Space Marine?!

It doesn't make tacticals great, but obviously makes them better. With the new CA missions, having obsec is good, so now you can have a tac sqd with a hvy weapon doing some work on an objective. DA rerolling 1s to hit for being stationary also helps.
Deathwatch though got a lot better. 4 shots at 24" with SIA if camping an objective. Their bikers (who can be obsec) are going to be nice.
As a Ravenwing player, this is quite a nice buff too, not just for the bikes but the Dark Talon will now be getting 24 shots at 24" instead of 12"

Will have to sit down and chew this one a little more

Raven Guard now get to skulk even further back in the shadows now

/snickers in stealth & cover

Nice change. Good for stormbolters, DW vets are really becoming a nice unit. Meh about the beta status as everyone with a non marine faction will just not allow the rules to be in effect, but I assume they keep the change for CA 2019.

Now why GW didn't put this in CA 2018 is a more interesting question. Still very nice.

I like how people are incapable of parsing the difference between 'if any [condition] applies' and 'for any [condition] applies' and to make it even better, pick wishful thinking option that doesn't exist without engaging common sense and asking themselves if their maximum cheese reading isn't maybe a tad too good

Welp, looks like assault cannons and heavy flamers on termies are officially dead now. Ditto for any primaris bolt weapons that aren't rifle. Special issue bolter and stalker bolter used by various veterans still have a tiny niche, but it's much smaller now. I wonder, when is DW nerf coming because they surely won't get to keep their rules now...

Wow, this is huge for terminators. 24" rapid fire stormbolters is pretty damn awesome.

Of course, this is an indirect nerf to blightlords...

I think this is a fair change, not too op, just fair.

 Huron black heart wrote:
I think this is a fair change, not too op, just fair.

likewise ... if they'd swung too far I imagine the backlash that "GW just wanna sell moar marines!" etc. would come to bear.

This bumps them up a notch without tipping the scales too far ... especially with formations being new etc.

the Formation Strat to make Bolt Rifles Rapid fire 2 is tasty !!

 Irbis wrote:
...
Special issue bolter and stalker bolter used by various veterans still have a tiny niche, but it's much smaller now.
...

But Special Issue Bolters are Rapid fire? So they will be able to benefit from this buff.

 Orodhen wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
...
Special issue bolter and stalker bolter used by various veterans still have a tiny niche, but it's much smaller now.
...

But Special Issue Bolters are Rapid fire? So they will be able to benefit from this buff.

Yeah, the problem is Storm Bolters are just hilariously good for their points, no matter who's taking them. You should pretty much be replacing any bolter with a storm bolter wherever you can. They're like the sole effective anti-chaff upgrade weapon that exists in the game.

Slaaneshy combibolter chosen now best blob removal ever.

On the other hand noise marines with sonic weaponry can go play slaaneshmas.

Seems quite a nice change.

Karol wrote:
Nice change. Good for stormbolters, DW vets are really becoming a nice unit. Meh about the beta status as everyone with a non marine faction will just not allow the rules to be in effect, but I assume they keep the change for CA 2019.

Now why GW didn't put this in CA 2018 is a more interesting question. Still very nice.

why would they do that? Do they not use any of the beta rules that GW has put out? If people refusing to play the beta rules because of how it affects their specific army is a thing, I'd look for different opponents. Or just don't play ANY beta rule.

It doesn’t increase the max firepower, but lets you apply it further away. A boon to camping squads.

Bikes will get to project fire on the move, without having to get into rapid fire range. Special weapons will still want to be close, but between their movement and range, they will be able to project fire over a huge amount of the table while staying away from threats. Fits their role as skirmishers.

Terminators will be able to shoot effectively at range, so if they find themselves outside of power-fist charge range, they can still threaten things. The ability to move and project fire was the niche role of the stormbolter in previous editions, for TDA, it is once again.

I think the hurricane bolter arm on my ironclad might get some more use. LRCs and SRs also get a nice boost. Where else can we get them? Centurians, who also get a call out for always on. Will help their tubby slow selves actually be able to shoot stuff.

Camping sternguard with their special issue bolters will enjoy this. Stick them in cover and threaten a 30” radius on the table. Point drop in CA18 with this makes for some nice full gunlines.
--

This is a pretty big slap in the face to all non-rapid fire bolter variants. The heavy bolt rife in particular just had its usefulness cut dramatically. Hopefully they can get adjusted later.

I don’t think this is going to be game breakingly powerful. I normally endeavor to be in rapid fire range anyway for my bolter troops. This just lets us project fire better in the right circumstance.

All 3 of us who still run armies that are scared of Boltguns are doomed.

Yes, my typical list is scared of Boltguns as is.

That said, I think this would do more to help balance than hurt it. Not a fan, wish they balanced it another way, but better than how things are now.