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What is your first impression? Looks pretty strong to me with potential 24(!) damage per shooting phase that ignores character screening, buffing nearby Infantry and improving Cult Ambushes.

Not bad. Does an average of 6 damage to a Marine statline. That's enough to drop most marine characters, so if he gets a good ambush roll and the enemy isn't properly screened that's quite nasty. You can't screen to stop character targeting as such, I mean simply keeping him out of range.

Might be something you hold for an extra turn until you see a gap in your opponent's defenses to exploit.

He seems cool. Plus an awesome model. While I'm not interested in GSC as a full army (too pricey and I'm not a big fan of space hillbilly despite loving their fluff), I'm most likely picking up their kill team with this guy in it.

Looks to be quite the glass cannon. It'll be interesting to see the points cost.

phillv85 wrote:
Looks to be quite the glass cannon. It'll be interesting to see the points cost.

Well if GSC keep the "willing sacrifice" or whatever i's called rule, I don't care how glass cannony he is as long as he's a character.

Oh, you positioned so that my patriarch was the closest model? Good job, you fried a genestealer with your meltagun.

His kit is solid. Obviously we can't say if he's really viable until we see points, but he has potential. I'll definitely get him anyway, love the model.

This guy is brutal.

He's all but guaranteed an assassination and with +3 to ambush there are few places to hide. If the table stays the same and he gets a 5 (2+, basically) then he gets to shoot twice. If he gets a 6 then there is nowhere you can hide while also keeping troops in bubble range.

He could knock down 3 company commanders pretty easily. This guy needs to be north of 150 points at least unless there are big changes to ambush.

Cool models and rules but something just bothers me that a revolver has a better gun profile than the mini-rpg that is the holy bolter but that's a separate topic.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
This guy is brutal.

He's all but guaranteed an assassination and with +3 to ambush there are few places to hide. If the table stays the same and he gets a 5 (2+, basically) then he gets to shoot twice. If he gets a 6 then there is nowhere you can hide while also keeping troops in bubble range.

He could knock down 3 company commanders pretty easily. This guy needs to be north of 150 points at least unless there are big changes to ambush.

I think you're underestimating how easy it is to screen out 12" from your characters for a lot of armies. I agree he's good, but that 12" range is a very real limitation.

I expect him to be 70 or so points. He won't cost more than an Assassin imo.

The +3 to ambush seems really nice, especially as another unit can pigg back in with him.

He seems very to be a very strong character assassin, much more reliable than any of the actual assassins. His points cost is gonna have to be 100+ or he will be an auto take just because he will be near guaranteed to make his points back. The pistol seems a bit much with 2x dam 2 shot with three of them.

I like the bit where autostub pistols are killier than Bolters.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I like the bit where autostub pistols are killier than Bolters.

Can't wait to read the lore on those guns, the fact that they are stubbers raises a lot of questions about the supposed power of 40k battlefield weapons and armour.

JohnnyHell wrote:I like the bit where autostub pistols are killier than Bolters.

Torquar wrote:Can't wait to read the lore on those guns, the fact that they are stubbers raises a lot of questions about the supposed power of 40k battlefield weapons and armour.

Maybe it's just an abstract representation of the kelermorph's skill with a pistol, since simply hitting on a 2+ (the game's only statistical representation of the shooter) doesn't have the desired effect, and just giving the weapon a better profile is better than throwing on additional special rules.

If everything has to be hyper-literal, maybe they're heavy stubber caliber with special armor-piercing ammunition.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WisdomLS wrote:
The pistol seems a bit much with 2x dam 2 shot with three of them.

Don't miss that the Gunslinger rule also provides bonus shots. Looks like on average that's 9.17 S4 AP-1 D2 hits. That's pretty nasty.

 Stux wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
This guy is brutal.

He's all but guaranteed an assassination and with +3 to ambush there are few places to hide. If the table stays the same and he gets a 5 (2+, basically) then he gets to shoot twice. If he gets a 6 then there is nowhere you can hide while also keeping troops in bubble range.

He could knock down 3 company commanders pretty easily. This guy needs to be north of 150 points at least unless there are big changes to ambush.

I think you're underestimating how easy it is to screen out 12" from your characters for a lot of armies. I agree he's good, but that 12" range is a very real limitation.

I expect him to be 70 or so points. He won't cost more than an Assassin imo.

He gets a 6 66% of the time. That means he's 9" away from the front and moves 6". The guns are 12". That is effectively an 18" bubble from the front line. There is no distance where you are safe and also providing a bubble to troops unless you're strung out so badly as to be ineffective anyway.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
This guy is brutal.

He's all but guaranteed an assassination and with +3 to ambush there are few places to hide. If the table stays the same and he gets a 5 (2+, basically) then he gets to shoot twice. If he gets a 6 then there is nowhere you can hide while also keeping troops in bubble range.

He could knock down 3 company commanders pretty easily. This guy needs to be north of 150 points at least unless there are big changes to ambush.

I think you're underestimating how easy it is to screen out 12" from your characters for a lot of armies. I agree he's good, but that 12" range is a very real limitation.

I expect him to be 70 or so points. He won't cost more than an Assassin imo.

He gets a 6 66% of the time. That means he's 9" away from the front and moves 6". The guns are 12". That is effectively an 18" bubble from the front line. There is no distance where you are safe and also providing a bubble to troops unless you're strung out so badly as to be ineffective anyway.

That's not true. So after your move you are (just over) 3" from the screen. The character could easily be 9" away still. There's no space in there for you to deepsteike in.

Granted, it does make your opponent think more about deployment, but cults will do that anyway.

Again, I do think he's very good. I just think you're overselling it a little.

Maybe I missed it in the previews, but do we know if the Ambush chart has changed at all? There are a lot of assumptions here based on the chart so if that's changed a lot of those assumptions may not be valid.

Slipspace wrote:
Maybe I missed it in the previews, but do we know if the Ambush chart has changed at all? There are a lot of assumptions here based on the chart so if that's changed a lot of those assumptions may not be valid.

I'm not aware of any leak/reveal no. There was a leak of warlord traits but we're pretty sure it was fake.

It could be completely overhauled.

I may have imagined it, but I thought GW made some comments about it when the Deepstrike rules changed, saying they would change the table to bring it into line with the new rules. If that's the case I wouldn't start making plans for some of these units until we know more!

Slipspace wrote:
Maybe I missed it in the previews, but do we know if the Ambush chart has changed at all? There are a lot of assumptions here based on the chart so if that's changed a lot of those assumptions may not be valid.

It wasn't during these reveals--there was credible reports from the recent New Year's Open Day though of the mechanisms changing.

This is an incredibly strong character.

The fact that an autostub pistol is ridiculously superior to the average boltgun tells you a lot about power creep in an edition.

Maybe he fires magic bullets, the gun can suck if it is loaded with mini nuke ammo. Good thing is that he doesn't ignore cover. It will come down to how much he costs. Under 100pts he will be auto pick under 80pts people will spam him, but if he is 150 I doubt people will use more then 1.

 Marmatag wrote:
This is an incredibly strong character.

The fact that an autostub pistol is ridiculously superior to the average boltgun tells you a lot about power creep in an edition.

Earlier in the edition someone laughed at me for mentioning power creep. I don't think they are laughing anymore. This dude with double revolvers outshoots Calgar with a unique relic of the imperium. The dude holding 2 big revolvers....

3 pistols with 2 shots and D2 apiece that also generate extra shots each time they hit does seem a tad... excessive.

He also puts every model in the game armed with Relic pistols to shame.

Slipspace wrote:
I may have imagined it, but I thought GW made some comments about it when the Deepstrike rules changed, saying they would change the table to bring it into line with the new rules. If that's the case I wouldn't start making plans for some of these units until we know more!

They did say something about Ambush changing to factor in the new Tactical Reserves rule actually. They didn't say anything about how, and given GW logic I wouldn't assume much from it!

Once again, a really powerful character...more than the designers probably realized because they did it for the lulz. If you can take more than one of these in your army, prepare to see them nonstop in every single army, every game.

Powercreep does depend on his points.

At 50 points he's borderline broken.
If he's say 100 points hes okay.
If hes say 150 he's rubbish.

Its another "D2 for the lols" but GW seem desperate to make Primaris (and friends) non-viable for reasons that continue to elude me.

I want to see his point cost before I really comment on him, but he's a trend that I really wish the game would move away from, hyper lethal options. Depending on how the new GSC chart works, he can basically pop up and one shot most characters or a small squad. The game needs less of that not more.

This guy outperforms most full squads with sniper rules (scouts, deathmarks, etc.) And presumably has character himself, so he's often going to be harder to take out first. If he's under 100pts, it's gonna get crazy.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I want to see his point cost before I really comment on him, but he's a trend that I really wish the game would move away from, hyper lethal options. Depending on how the new GSC chart works, he can basically pop up and one shot most characters or a small squad. The game needs less of that not more.

He's very rarely going to be killing squads. On average he kills 3 MEQ. The fact those 3 can be Primaris is pretty strong though.

The point cost will determine everything still.