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 BertBert wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The only problem I see with this guy is that if his guns where a bunch of S3 Ap0 1D weapons what kind of rules he could need to be able to kill characters and not become a machinegun for killing hordes.

Something that lets him deal MW to characters specifically, for example.

That could be an option but to be honest I just hate Mortal Wounds as concept and execution even if in 8th they are much less common than in AoS.

Not Online!!! wrote:
There aren't to many bodyguard units:

Chaos has the terminators and they are only DG.

Tyranids have hiveguard i belive.

Imperium has the most of these i belive.

Chaos however needs a big ammount of charachters generally and has a low ammount of bodyguards, so to say this won't cause any issues is also a wrong statement.

Tyranids have Tyrant Guard, and they only work on Hive Tyrants which don't have character protection anyway, so you can just shoot them with Lascannons or whatever.

Imperium have few that come to mind actually. Guard have a couple of special characters. Custodes have a stratagem that isn't very good. Marines have Calgar's guard, maybe others... Dark Angels don't get any though, which is what I play.

Tau are the masters of Bodyguarding, thanks to Shield Drones.

You mean, guys who cost a lot of points, have standard wargear of their faction, instead of completely broken gak, who eat warlord traits, relic slots, and tons of CP for breakfast in order to be any effective, and then can still fail on poor dice roll, instead of being plug and play cheap unit deleter that just needs to show up within 12 inches to be good to go?

Didn't know the Gunslinger had auto-hit, auto-mortal wound. I agree, that does change things. Also, where is the point cost for the Gunslinger. I must admit it is hard to have a discussion when people appear to have more information than myself so if you could point me to the codex leak I'd be happy to go read.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Do kindly look at the cost of Primaris bodyguards and consider this guy makes their 2+/3++ completely worthless as they need to eat MW to intercept anything. If he manages to kill just two of them he already took points cost of typical GSC character back, if four, which is not hard, he would need to cost more than BA captain to not make his points back and then some. You know not every army has access to broken xeno stuff like Tau cheap as peanuts drone wound erasers?

I think I have stated before that I agree with the statement that Codex: Space Marines(and derivatives) are in a bad place and need to be revisited. I am not sure where you got the impression I thought the Space Marine codexes were good, just stated that the Smash Captains were annoying to deal with.

Also, if you have been playing with or against the gunslinger I think we would all love a a good battle report. I think most of us are thirsting for some more indepth GSC details and it would be greatly appreciated it if you could spare some time to write one of your recent games up.

(PS: I am super excited to see what the unit will cost eventually to see if it is truly broken or just storm in a glass.)

 Galas wrote:
The only problem I see with this guy is that if his guns where a bunch of S3 Ap0 1D weapons what kind of rules he could need to be able to kill characters and not become a machinegun for killing hordes.

The question is though, why does he have to be efficient. GW gave a ton of bad units to other armies, and random mooks with ramshackle weapons should have the stats that represent the poor state of their gear. The dude is running around with multiple relic tier autoguns.

Basically the only builds were ton of War Walkers or a Seer Council on jetbikes(which all had to be kitbashed as the model did not exist for them) and at the end of 5th you saw some people make do with Footdar.

man look at what your saying here. At some time in 5th eldar weren't the best army to play with. They had two builds, but they weren't the best. To me that is a definition of good . Do you know how many good builds bad armies normaly have? zero. Having a choice of two, but not being the best build, being considered as bad times for eldar just blows my mind. And let me guess, in 2ed, 3ed, 4th, 6th, 7th and now 8th they were just very good aka normal for eldar ? Is there like an eldar design dude at GW that just sits down every edition and pre writes the rules for them, to make them fun to play or something, because considering how random GW sometimes seems to be with their rules getting eldar right every time should have a low chance of happening. Well I guess at least the 5th ed eldar codex was bad I guess he was sick then or on leave.

Karol wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The only problem I see with this guy is that if his guns where a bunch of S3 Ap0 1D weapons what kind of rules he could need to be able to kill characters and not become a machinegun for killing hordes.

The question is though, why does he have to be efficient. GW gave a ton of bad units to other armies, and random mooks with ramshackle weapons should have the stats that represent the poor state of their gear. The dude is running around with multiple relic tier autoguns.

Because all units should be efficient for their intended purpose and based on their cost. Thats balance.
If he has poor stats then he should be dirty cheap but I'm not a fan of dirty cheap characters or in general armies because the ratio points:€ is horrible.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Agreed with both the above posts. Also, a few weeks ago, a leaker who got other things right already like the Biophagus, said Cult Ambush was being turned into blips. This is the first anyone had ever heard of the idea. Today, the pre-order for GSC confirms that the book comes with Blip tokens for cult ambush, meaning that this leaker, who has already been confirmed accurate on other points, was almost certainly telling the truth here.


Cult Ambush leaked rules:

Spoiler:

(cult ambush): It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them.

If an enemy unit moves within 9" of them, you place down the GSC unit as close as possible to the blip token.

So if a guard squad advances onto the token and surrounds it, you then place the GSC unit as close as possible (but outside of 1" of enemy units. If they move to 3" away from it, you just place it down on the token (but outside of 1" of enemy units). One model from the unit must be centered on the token if possible.

This is a barebones overview (he talked about a lot of things) giving you a ton more counterplay options than last edition, and as we know from the Kelermorph's rules, there is also a success roll or table of some manner involved.

So basically, there is a ton of options to deal with him cult ambushing in on your characters. Ambushing him may not yet even be the best way to play a character who requires such precision - we'll have to wait and see. Let's at least do that before making these extreme declarations, yes?

This... Makes no sense given that we know there is a cult ambush table that you roll on, given the kelermorphs own preview.
I mean, the tokens where talked about, we know they exist.

But a table also exists.

Wtf?

man look at what your saying here. At some time in 5th eldar weren't the best army to play with. They had two builds, but they weren't the best. To me that is a definition of good . Do you know how many good builds bad armies normaly have? zero. Having a choice of two, but not being the best build, being considered as bad times for eldar just blows my mind. And let me guess, in 2ed, 3ed, 4th, 6th, 7th and now 8th they were just very good aka normal for eldar ? Is there like an eldar design dude at GW that just sits down every edition and pre writes the rules for them, to make them fun to play or something, because considering how random GW sometimes seems to be with their rules getting eldar right every time should have a low chance of happening. Well I guess at least the 5th ed eldar codex was bad I guess he was sick then or on leave.

The War Walker wasn't a good build, just the only viable one that didn't need ton of kitbashing like the seer council. Seer council did okay though, but not many were running it as it required a lot of work to make the models and if you were a good player then footdar was viable. Never said that Eldar were bad, just that they have had low points.

Regarding the writer the Eldar have usually been written by Phil Kelly who has a decent track record of making armies viable and the fifth edition low point was more because of the Matt Ward power spike rather than the codex being gak. I fear Grey Knights are still suffering from the spike that Matt Ward gave them.

I also mentioned that the reason Eldar have been doing good is that the rotation of unit viability has been constant. Eldar boast a very large and variable line and with each iteration and rule change one of those things manages to become the thing that holds the army up. It's why historically the Eldar armies have been rather monotonous if you were going for competitive. 6th was Dire Avengers in Scatter Serpents with Wraithknights. 7th was Scatterbikes and Wraithknights(and maybe a unit of Warp Spiders).


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On a more relevant point I discovered this short story.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/30/the-three-armed-gunfightergw-homepage-post-3/

I am wondering if this character is actually a named character. Won't know until the codex comes out or if someone in this thread were to leak a page or two, but interesting thing nonetheless. GSC currently has no named character so it would be interesting if this would be one of the first. "The Hero of Hyghan" has a nice ring to it.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Agreed with both the above posts. Also, a few weeks ago, a leaker who got other things right already like the Biophagus, said Cult Ambush was being turned into blips. This is the first anyone had ever heard of the idea. Today, the pre-order for GSC confirms that the book comes with Blip tokens for cult ambush, meaning that this leaker, who has already been confirmed accurate on other points, was almost certainly telling the truth here.


Cult Ambush leaked rules:

Spoiler:

(cult ambush): It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them.

If an enemy unit moves within 9" of them, you place down the GSC unit as close as possible to the blip token.

So if a guard squad advances onto the token and surrounds it, you then place the GSC unit as close as possible (but outside of 1" of enemy units. If they move to 3" away from it, you just place it down on the token (but outside of 1" of enemy units). One model from the unit must be centered on the token if possible.

This is a barebones overview (he talked about a lot of things) giving you a ton more counterplay options than last edition, and as we know from the Kelermorph's rules, there is also a success roll or table of some manner involved.

So basically, there is a ton of options to deal with him cult ambushing in on your characters. Ambushing him may not yet even be the best way to play a character who requires such precision - we'll have to wait and see. Let's at least do that before making these extreme declarations, yes?

This... Makes no sense given that we know there is a cult ambush table that you roll on, given the kelermorphs own preview.
I mean, the tokens where talked about, we know they exist.

But a table also exists.

Wtf?

I don't see what is so confusing. Assuming the leak is correct, presumably you roll on a table that determines something like whether you can move immediately, or perhaps restricts which blips you can arrive from, or any number of possibilities.

Admech radium carbines do 2 damage on wound rolls of 6+, they could've given him that (or even 3 damage) to represent crazy headshot skills. But my headcanon just tells me he has some exploding bullets or whatever, not too bothered by it.

Somewhat related, I'm pretty sure a small 40k datasheet for the admech manipulus was included in the killteambox (apparently he's 90 points, which hopefully was priced before CA when the dominus was dropped to the same). Wouldn't there be a datasheet included in the GSC killteam box as well? Or did they skip that since the codex is out so soon thereafter?

PiñaColada wrote:
Admech radium carbines do 2 damage on wound rolls of 6+, they could've given him that (or even 3 damage) to represent crazy headshot skills. But my headcanon just tells me he has some exploding bullets or whatever, not too bothered by it.

Somewhat related, I'm pretty sure a small 40k datasheet for the admech manipulus was included in the killteambox (apparently he's 90 points, which hopefully was priced before CA when the dominus was dropped to the same). Wouldn't there be a datasheet included in the GSC killteam box as well? Or did they skip that since the codex is out so soon thereafter?

There probably will be, but it's not out until the weekend. I guess reviewers etc would have copies by now though.

PiñaColada wrote:
Admech radium carbines do 2 damage on wound rolls of 6+, they could've given him that (or even 3 damage) to represent crazy headshot skills. But my headcanon just tells me he has some exploding bullets or whatever, not too bothered by it.

Somewhat related, I'm pretty sure a small 40k datasheet for the admech manipulus was included in the killteambox (apparently he's 90 points, which hopefully was priced before CA when the dominus was dropped to the same). Wouldn't there be a datasheet included in the GSC killteam box as well? Or did they skip that since the codex is out so soon thereafter?

Depends on if anybody has received a copy of the Kill Team early. Otherwise we'll have to wait until Saturday to see if there are points in the box.

People really thinks this is OP or worth of 150 points.Killing 5 guards or 2 marines/primaris in turn ( or 4-6 damage to marine like characters) and can be killed by 12 (inside 12") guards or 7 marines with bolters in turn not including any auras or other buffs.

When you see this thing in a vaccum maybe makes sense. The problem I see is people deploying 3, because if it is any good people are going to take 3, and mowing the center of any army. I wonder if anyone can do the math of 3 of these hitting Failbbadon or BobbyG. Because well, Farseers are doomed, pun unintended.

 Kithail wrote:
When you see this thing in a vaccum maybe makes sense. The problem I see is people deploying 3, because if it is any good people are going to take 3, and mowing the center of any army. I wonder if anyone can do the math of 3 of these hitting Failbbadon or BobbyG. Because well, Farseers are doomed, pun unintended.

For Guilliman damage is 2 per Kelermorph rounded up.

 Kithail wrote:
When you see this thing in a vaccum maybe makes sense. The problem I see is people deploying 3, because if it is any good people are going to take 3, and mowing the center of any army. I wonder if anyone can do the math of 3 of these hitting Failbbadon or BobbyG. Because well, Farseers are doomed, pun unintended.

The important question is if you can really field three. The short story implies he is unique, but who knows, he might also be generic.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Kithail wrote:
When you see this thing in a vaccum maybe makes sense. The problem I see is people deploying 3, because if it is any good people are going to take 3, and mowing the center of any army. I wonder if anyone can do the math of 3 of these hitting Failbbadon or BobbyG. Because well, Farseers are doomed, pun unintended.

The important question is if you can really field three. The short story implies he is unique, but who knows, he might also be generic.

Yeah I'd like to wait on that. I wouldn't have issues with a unique priced around 100 points. I'd say that taking 3 with a LOS screen at 100pp is kind of broken though.

It has a title, not a name.

Highly unlikely. can't think of anything in the game that is unique and doesn't have a name.

 BoomWolf wrote:
It has a title, not a name.

Highly unlikely. can't think of anything in the game that is unique and doesn't have a name.

Well in addition to a lot of the rules "feeling" like those of a unique Character and, ya know, the balance issue, I would not put it past GW to play into the western theme with this Gunslinger. Clint Eastwood's character was "The man with no name" after all

Oh, and the Avatar of Khaine is Unique and doesn't have a name, yet there is one per Craftworld

-

 BoomWolf wrote:
It has a title, not a name.

Highly unlikely. can't think of anything in the game that is unique and doesn't have a name.

Not sure, but i think Tau commander and hive tyrant is limited to one per army.

Angra wrote:
People really thinks this is OP or worth of 150 points.Killing 5 guards or 2 marines/primaris in turn ( or 4-6 damage to marine like characters) and can be killed by 12 (inside 12") guards or 7 marines with bolters in turn not including any auras or other buffs.

Again - it's not about killing basic units.

I think it's perfectly fine for this unit to exist. People just need to realize what he could be capable of doing and why a certain cost might be assigned to him to represent that.

Cult Ambush rules are up; https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/28/genestealer-cults-rules-preview-part-1/?fbclid=IwAR27-2cU6iRvC1ockyYjSjsR47kwbFVPhBkI4pgX-G38XRglrExzYvEhbIQ

There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

Angra wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
It has a title, not a name.

Highly unlikely. can't think of anything in the game that is unique and doesn't have a name.

Not sure, but i think Tau commander and hive tyrant is limited to one per army.

Tau Commander is one per detachment.

 Yarium wrote:
There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

Seems unlikely given the 3CP stratagem to have a unit move d6" after coming out of underground ambush, but maybe. Suspect that +3 might just apply to kill team.

In the video they refer to the GS as a "genetically modified folk hero".

I enjoyed this. I love how campy GW is these days in the videos.

 Yarium wrote:
Cult Ambush rules are up; https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/28/genestealer-cults-rules-preview-part-1/?fbclid=IwAR27-2cU6iRvC1ockyYjSjsR47kwbFVPhBkI4pgX-G38XRglrExzYvEhbIQ

There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

maybe thats not the entirety of the mechanic. It outright says all this has to be within your own deployment zone, until you "change the nature of the ambush". No further details given other than sine strats maybe that's what they meant?

Put two and two together and it's probably the ambush table.
or maybe it's what you said and blips just have to be used defensively? weird

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

Seems unlikely given the 3CP stratagem to have a unit move d6" after coming out of underground ambush, but maybe. Suspect that +3 might just apply to kill team.

no, it was shown on the rules for 40k, and not on the KT one. it's definitely for 40k.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

Seems unlikely given the 3CP stratagem to have a unit move d6" after coming out of underground ambush, but maybe. Suspect that +3 might just apply to kill team.

It definitely applies to 40K. The post it appears in is entirely dedicated to 40K rules.

Edit : ninja'd

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
Cult Ambush rules are up; https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/28/genestealer-cults-rules-preview-part-1/?fbclid=IwAR27-2cU6iRvC1ockyYjSjsR47kwbFVPhBkI4pgX-G38XRglrExzYvEhbIQ

There's no Cult Ambush table, so that +3 to the roll seems like, well, it's no longer applying. That's weird. Or maybe there still is a table for coming up from underground that they just haven't shown us yet.

maybe thats not the entirety of the mechanic. It outright says all this has to be within your own deployment zone, until you "change the nature of the ambush". No further details given other than sine strats maybe that's what they meant?

Put two and two together and it's probably the ambush table.
or maybe it's what you said and blips just have to be used defensively? weird

It refers to the stratagem directly below it that turns ambush blips into underground ambush (deepstrike)


There is no mention anywhere of a cult ambush table, and I'm outright confused.

 BoomWolf wrote:


There is no mention anywhere of a cult ambush table, and I'm outright confused.

It's very likely they get a potential bonus after the ambush like being able to relocate. Some of the characters almost certainly interact with these, too.

potentially a red herring either way. But looks like Kelermorph only offensive deployment is regular old deepstrike. Stratagem to shoot twice the for 3 CP, but means a unit of stealers or whatever doesn't get to use the strat to 3D6 charge out of DS, so significant opportunity cost.

doesn't seem to unfair to me, but hey I'm not a low tier player who complains about everything before even trying to figure out my options so I can't predict how the dakka reaction will be to this one.