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Not Online!!! wrote: And how exactly is abbadon the harmless supposed to scream at his men to increase their accuracy, don't dare to run away and tie their fething shoes?
Wait, I wasn't following entirely, are you suggesting, honestly, that the Kelermorph is going to take out Abaddon? Just clarifying before I laugh hysterically.
Not really, abbadon is relatively save as in his armor still is 3 plus.
Other charachters which auras are lynchpin are however not as lucky.
Then again everything bad that happens to a abbadon model in the game is a good thing in my book since i hate him.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
yeah I mean if you stand three characters next to each other while playing against this guy with no bodyguard unit or putting them into a transport your gonna have a bad time.... i think thats kind of a good thing
Again how many Bodyguard units exist that are actually worth it.
Chaos has over the whole faction 1 bodyguard unit.
1, a faction that atm is only kept relevant thanks to charachters.
Imperium has more, some ogryns, some primaris, etc. But the pts there are generally not worth it.
Tau won't really mind him since shielddrones exist.
Tyranids have only for hivetyrants bodyguard.
Also most charachters don't work within a Tank.
And even IG has to spend cp to work inside of a Tank.
So yeah some armies have bodyguards
All have transports
Many have strategems that even allow you to shoot this guy coming in
all require you to use more brain power then "ill just ball up all my special characters and shoot the bad guys to death"
once again im really failing to see what all this crying is about. you are going to be required to think about placement against gsc armies...... o the horror
yeah I mean if you stand three characters next to each other while playing against this guy with no bodyguard unit or putting them into a transport your gonna have a bad time.... i think thats kind of a good thing
Again how many Bodyguard units exist that are actually worth it.
Chaos has over the whole faction 1 bodyguard unit.
1, a faction that atm is only kept relevant thanks to charachters.
Imperium has more, some ogryns, some primaris, etc. But the pts there are generally not worth it.
Tau won't really mind him since shielddrones exist.
Tyranids have only for hivetyrants bodyguard.
Also most charachters don't work within a Tank.
And even IG has to spend cp to work inside of a Tank.
So yeah some armies have bodyguards
All have transports
Many have strategems that even allow you to shoot this guy coming in
all require you to use more brain power then "ill just ball up all my special characters and shoot the bad guys to death"
once again im really failing to see what all this crying is about. you are going to be required to think about placement against gsc armies...... o the horror
Are we ignoring that GSC have a better vect stratagem?
yeah I mean if you stand three characters next to each other while playing against this guy with no bodyguard unit or putting them into a transport your gonna have a bad time.... i think thats kind of a good thing
Again how many Bodyguard units exist that are actually worth it.
Chaos has over the whole faction 1 bodyguard unit.
1, a faction that atm is only kept relevant thanks to charachters.
Imperium has more, some ogryns, some primaris, etc. But the pts there are generally not worth it.
Tau won't really mind him since shielddrones exist.
Tyranids have only for hivetyrants bodyguard.
Also most charachters don't work within a Tank.
And even IG has to spend cp to work inside of a Tank.
So yeah some armies have bodyguards
All have transports
Many have strategems that even allow you to shoot this guy coming in
all require you to use more brain power then "ill just ball up all my special characters and shoot the bad guys to death"
once again im really failing to see what all this crying is about. you are going to be required to think about placement against gsc armies...... o the horror
Are we ignoring that GSC have a better vect stratagem?
crap i totally forgot that vect blows up the transport you put your guy in, and kills the bodyguard unit (if you have one), and instantly makes all-terrain/ screen units melt away and forces you to ball up all your characters so he can kill multiple
They really need to up its cost again i forgot how versatile it is
Consider that if he wipes a 10 man firewarrior squad he allready has made a netgain. I think even hiding isn't that usefull.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
A 60 point unit encouraging you not only to bring a transport, but to put your characters inside and make them utterly useless in the process sounds like a great deal to me.
I don’t understand why people are saying gsc units can’t be good compared to space marines/eldar/necrons etc. The cult is a hive mind that, by the time of ascension, spans an entire planet and has done for generations, with more plans and back-up plans than batman with prep time. Plenty of time and resources to gene-mod and train a guy up to kelermorph standard. We don’t even know if genestealer hybrids age normally, dude could be way older than the average human lifespan for all we know.
Asmodios 770479 10330502 wrote:
crap i totally forgot that vect blows up the transport you put your guy in, and kills the bodyguard unit (if you have one), and instantly makes all-terrain/ screen units melt away and forces you to ball up all your characters so he can kill multiple
They really need to up its cost again i forgot how versatile it is
Well in case of GKHQs they live and die on using heed the prognosticators. If that gets stoped they are in big trouble. And terrain doesn't help as much as people think when your army is not runing 100+models. I mean you can of course put everything in a corner building, but then the GSC are just going to blip the living hell of objectives, and GK termintors and strikes don't have the speed to reach objectives on foot. And with deep strike they arrive too late.
I'll be very disappointed if GSC doesn't end up being the most powerful army in the universe. I don't think there has been a thread like this trying to sell a single army. Even I am more or less sold on the fact that I should be collecting this army by now.
C4790M wrote: I don’t understand why people are saying gsc units can’t be good compared to space marines/eldar/necrons etc. The cult is a hive mind that, by the time of ascension, spans an entire planet and has done for generations, with more plans and back-up plans than batman with prep time. Plenty of time and resources to gene-mod and train a guy up to kelermorph standard. We don’t even know if genestealer hybrids age normally, dude could be way older than the average human lifespan for all we know.
the cult is a hive mind of the stuff that lives on the planet. So unless they droped on to a ad mecha research facility making bombs and drugs should be the hight of their tech achivments. But then again they can mass produce stub guns that rival the relics of the empire.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Asmodios 770479 10330502 wrote:
crap i totally forgot that vect blows up the transport you put your guy in, and kills the bodyguard unit (if you have one), and instantly makes all-terrain/ screen units melt away and forces you to ball up all your characters so he can kill multiple
They really need to up its cost again i forgot how versatile it is
Well in case of GKHQs they live and die on using heed the prognosticators. If that gets stoped they are in big trouble. And terrain doesn't help as much as people think when your army is not runing 100+models. I mean you can of course put everything in a corner building, but then the GSC are just going to blip the living hell of objectives, and GK termintors and strikes don't have the speed to reach objectives on foot. And with deep strike they arrive too late.
GK are super bad
GK will continue to be super bad
GK need to get an update
ever "omg look at how broken x" thread uses GK as a basis. GK is not going to beat GSCatm with essentially anything as they are worse then every army at everything. Can we at least use other armies as examples because saying x crushes GK really isn't saying much
But you can replace GK with marines and a non gulliman HQ and you would get the same things. Ancients with banners, librarians or Lts and Cpts got a lot worse with the dude added to the game.
And while I understand that this isn't much of a problem for most tournament players, as those people in general don't play marines, in non tournament games the guy is very NPE in the way he is costed and in the way he works.
He is in a way like a castellan, not in point costs or destructivness, but in the fact that he has to be hard countered. And the vect 2.0 is not just bad for GK. It is bad for BA or any other army that has to use stratagems to function.
Is it going to be a problem for orcs with their 200 models? Probably not, but I don't envy baby John if his friend picks up GSC and he plays marines. I get someone wanting to make stuff cool. Maybe the codex writer really likes GSC or tyranids. Nothing wrong with that, but when some books are made by faction entustiasts that add stuff to be "cool" to army books, the balance between factions becomes laughable. The amount of time spent to fine craft how GSC are suppose to work, no matter if they work well or not in the end, is incomperable to the work time put in to SW or BA.
Ah and one more thing about GK. GW said they are a real faction and good post CA. They know the game better then me, they test and work on it all day. Maybe people just don't know how to get the perfect army with GKs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 23:42:04
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
Eldarsif wrote: I'll be very disappointed if GSC doesn't end up being the most powerful army in the universe. I don't think there has been a thread like this trying to sell a single army. Even I am more or less sold on the fact that I should be collecting this army by now.
GSC has infiltrated dakka to convince the population that they instantly win every matchup. This causes GW to produce more GSC units and thus spreads their influence and power even more. Truly the day of ascension has come
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote: But you can replace GK with marines and a non gulliman HQ and you would get the same things. Ancients with banners, librarians or Lts and Cpts got a lot worse with the dude added to the game.
And while I understand that this isn't much of a problem for most tournament players, as those people in general don't play marines, in non tournament games the guy is very NPE in the way he is costed and in the way he works.
He is in a way like a castellan, not in point costs or destructivness, but in the fact that he has to be hard countered. And the vect 2.0 is not just bad for GK. It is bad for BA or any other army that has to use stratagems to function.
Is it going to be a problem for orcs with their 200 models? Probably not, but I don't envy baby John if his friend picks up GSC and he plays marines. I get someone wanting to make stuff cool. Maybe the codex writer really likes GSC or tyranids. Nothing wrong with that, but when some books are made by faction entustiasts that add stuff to be "cool" to army books, the balance between factions becomes laughable. The amount of time spent to fine craft how GSC are suppose to work, no matter if they work well or not in the end, is incomperable to the work time put in to SW or BA.
Ah and one more thing about GK. GW said they are a real faction and good post CA. They know the game better then me, they test and work on it all day. Maybe people just don't know how to get the perfect army with GKs.
SM have transports, bodyguard units and strategems against DS. Not to mention if you dont ball up your characters this guy is essentially going to be a 60point +3 CP to kill a single dude. Its just people acting like there is 0 counterplay to this guys and already I'm seeing plenty. Also the codex is just dropping lets gather a little data before we break out the nerf hammer
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 23:47:10
Not Online!!! wrote: And how exactly is abbadon the harmless supposed to scream at his men to increase their accuracy, don't dare to run away and tie their fething shoes?
Wait, I wasn't following entirely, are you suggesting, honestly, that the Kelermorph is going to take out Abaddon? Just clarifying before I laugh hysterically.
I think I need to preface that I'm not against this codex or its design. I just see potential issues.
Abaddon is legit safe mostly because of damage reduction and terminator armor.
@Insectum7
I expected more from you on that. Being forced to place a marine HQ in a transport is not a solid solution, unless you intend to get it into combat.
Let's ponder it for a moment.
Turn 1 - I can't get out of the transport - the KM can show up turn 2 and there is no way to get back in once the shooting phase starts.
Turn 2 - Is this when I get out? It's still the same risk.
Turn 3 - Now? How long do I need to stay in and sacrifice the reason I bought my HQs?
What about Ahriman on a disk? He has no transport option.
I can screen with cultists. I'm also pretty sure GSC will be able to kill the cultist screens before turn 2.
I can tail my units, but then they're way less effective. Getting to use my bolters at 24" would not be a thing.
GSC has infiltrated dakka to convince the population that they instantly win every matchup. This causes GW to produce more GSC units and thus spreads their influence and power even more. Truly the day of ascension has come
The Four-Armed Emperor shall reign supreme and destroy all the unbelievers. None shall stand in the way, not even the God Emperor's chosen son, Cypher.
Daedalus81 wrote: What about Ahriman on a disk? He has no transport option.
True, but he (or his DP buddies) does have ways of targeting characters at pretty decent range given the TS legion trait (Doombolt or Bolt of Change at 24" range). Also, he doesn't have to be on a disc.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
Daedalus81 wrote: What about Ahriman on a disk? He has no transport option.
True, but he (or his DP buddies) does have ways of targeting characters at pretty decent range given the TS legion trait (Doombolt or Bolt of Change at 24" range). Also, he doesn't have to be on a disc.
That's a lot of board control to give up against an army that can bring a ton of bodies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/31 23:57:04
But I'm having a very hard time taking this thread seriously. There are just so many ways to tuck characters out of striking range from deep striking 12" pistols. Screens, Transports, Terrain, Bodyguards, counter-DS fire, delayed deployment via reserves.
And this is after the "Those pistols can't be that strong!!" arguments when common criminal gangs can have Plasma Pistols with twice the strength.
This also seems to be an army that's severely lacking in the traditional heavy support options, no flyers from what I can tell, etc. It's an odd beast with a theme of asymmetrical warfare with some interesting tricks that nobody has fought yet (publicly). I'm really looking forward to seeing it in action, personally. If there are really strange imbalances, there's plenty of room to sort them out.
Eldarsif wrote: I'll be very disappointed if GSC doesn't end up being the most powerful army in the universe. I don't think there has been a thread like this trying to sell a single army. Even I am more or less sold on the fact that I should be collecting this army by now.
GSC has infiltrated dakka to convince the population that they instantly win every matchup. This causes GW to produce more GSC units and thus spreads their influence and power even more. Truly the day of ascension has come
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote: But you can replace GK with marines and a non gulliman HQ and you would get the same things. Ancients with banners, librarians or Lts and Cpts got a lot worse with the dude added to the game.
And while I understand that this isn't much of a problem for most tournament players, as those people in general don't play marines, in non tournament games the guy is very NPE in the way he is costed and in the way he works.
He is in a way like a castellan, not in point costs or destructivness, but in the fact that he has to be hard countered. And the vect 2.0 is not just bad for GK. It is bad for BA or any other army that has to use stratagems to function.
Is it going to be a problem for orcs with their 200 models? Probably not, but I don't envy baby John if his friend picks up GSC and he plays marines. I get someone wanting to make stuff cool. Maybe the codex writer really likes GSC or tyranids. Nothing wrong with that, but when some books are made by faction entustiasts that add stuff to be "cool" to army books, the balance between factions becomes laughable. The amount of time spent to fine craft how GSC are suppose to work, no matter if they work well or not in the end, is incomperable to the work time put in to SW or BA.
Ah and one more thing about GK. GW said they are a real faction and good post CA. They know the game better then me, they test and work on it all day. Maybe people just don't know how to get the perfect army with GKs.
SM have transports, bodyguard units and strategems against DS. Not to mention if you dont ball up your characters this guy is essentially going to be a 60point +3 CP to kill a single dude. Its just people acting like there is 0 counterplay to this guys and already I'm seeing plenty. Also the codex is just dropping lets gather a little data before we break out the nerf hammer
Quick Question:
When was the last time you read literally any codex and saw the points for those bodyguard units? Genuinely curious.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
But I'm having a very hard time taking this thread seriously. There are just so many ways to tuck characters out of striking range from deep striking 12" pistols. Screens, Transports, Terrain, Bodyguards, counter-DS fire, delayed deployment via reserves.
And this is after the "Those pistols can't be that strong!!" arguments when common criminal gangs can have Plasma Pistols with twice the strength.
This also seems to be an army that's severely lacking in the traditional heavy support options, no flyers from what I can tell, etc. It's an odd beast with a theme of asymmetrical warfare with some interesting tricks that nobody has fought yet (publicly). I'm really looking forward to seeing it in action, personally. If there are really strange imbalances, there's plenty of room to sort them out.
Yea, no problems with the strength of the pistols for me - other than possibly the points.
I'm sure I can find ways to adapt. Ahriman might be a baby sitter instead of leading the charge against GSC. I welcome new challenges.
As for the rest of the army itself - it does have Brood Brothers, so, as much as you want for tanks and stuff there. Aberrants are pretty dope. The drill seems potentially very scary, but I don't fully understand its rules yet.
Yea, no problems with the strength of the pistols for me - other than possibly the points.
I'm sure I can find ways to adapt. Ahriman might be a baby sitter instead of leading the charge against GSC. I welcome new challenges.
As for the rest of the army itself - it does have Brood Brothers, so, as much as you want for tanks and stuff there. Aberrants are pretty dope. The drill seems potentially very scary, but I don't fully understand its rules yet.
Sure, so for Brood Brothers is that a limited array of IG units, sans regimental bonuses? Like they can get a Leman Russ, but not a Leman Russ Commander? What's the story with that? I fell like I've read/heard a few different versions now.
Alternatively, you could just...give Ahriman his normal WL trait, and tank the pistols to the face with Glamour of Tzeentch up. Keller won't even come close to killing him.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: Alternatively, you could just...give Ahriman his normal WL trait, and tank the pistols to the face with Glamour of Tzeentch up. Keller won't even come close to killing him.
Eh. I suppose. I'm not thrilled about being forced into a crappier WL choice. I'll see how it pans out before I do that anyway. Glamour not on a hard target also sucks.
I can cope, but i'm not totally fond of listbuilding becoming more of a phase despite my enjoyment of it.
I'm more scared of the rifle that causes perils...good night rubrics...
Sure, so for Brood Brothers is that a limited array of IG units, sans regimental bonuses? Like they can get a Leman Russ, but not a Leman Russ Commander? What's the story with that? I fell like I've read/heard a few different versions now.
I'm not sure either. Still a lot to unpack on this codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/01 03:08:55
argonak wrote: Has anyone noticed that the jackal alphalus has a BS 2+ with a sniper rifle that puts the Space Marine one to shame?
S4, AP-2, D3.
And even the Sanctus's silenced sniper rifle is better, with:
S4, Ap-1, D3.
Clearly, the AdMech has been holding out on the imperium. The Adeptus Astartes should file a complaint.
Oh no...not again.
You should call it out as DD3 instead of D3 lest people get the wrong idea. That's also very similar to the profile of other sniper characters in the game so lets not treat it like it's amazing.
Alphus is 80 points.
Scout with sniper is 13. That's 6 sniper scouts.
