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 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Here you go. Be ready to weep. I marked it at the proper time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wConvy5p0&feature=youtu.be&t=2470

Wow, thanks.

So, a Hybrid with a Hand Flamer goes from range 8" to 6" & from D3 to D6 shots...for 11 points cheaper???? amazing.

And I'm not weeping, since Genestealers have been corrupting me with their xenos wiles since 2nd edition. I bought 2 of the original Space Hulk Box sets and one of the re-releases ~10 years ago; though I didn't buy the newest version with the nice sculpts; 60+ Genestealers is quite enough I think.

Personally I'm praising the four-armed emperor. =)

*weeps in renegade and Heretic

Yeah. TBH I think 1 point is about what the D3 shot version of the hand flamer is probably worth. Maybe a little cheap given the existence of the 2cp strat to get them in range, but for every other codex (maybe bar sisters because IIRC they have a similar strat) it could be worth 1pt. Maybe 2. Regular flamers would probably be worth it at 4.

At D6 shots 1pt vs 6pt for a regular flamer is laughable.

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Here you go. Be ready to weep. I marked it at the proper time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wConvy5p0&feature=youtu.be&t=2470

Wow, thanks.

So, a Hybrid with a Hand Flamer goes from range 8" to 6" & from D3 to D6 shots...for 11 points cheaper???? amazing.

And I'm not weeping, since Genestealers have been corrupting me with their xenos wiles since 2nd edition. I bought 2 of the original Space Hulk Box sets and one of the re-releases ~10 years ago; though I didn't buy the newest version with the nice sculpts; 60+ Genestealers is quite enough I think.

Personally I'm praising the four-armed emperor. =)

Well, weeping tears of joy in any case.

And WTF - their chainfist is less points with no -1 to hit. Unreal.

Patriarch is 125 points.
Think the Jackal Alpha is 70.

Tyel wrote:
Patriarch is 125 points.
Think the Jackal Alpha is 70.

Patriach is insane, too.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Patriach is insane, too.

Too bad Patriarchs and Genestealers don't get cult creeds, GSC armies going forward will likely be fielded without Genestealers ironically.

Also, Neophytes are pretty much gone considering you can get Brood Brother squads in your GSC detachment to fill troops and then give them orders from the Company Commander in your Spearhead detachment.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Patriach is insane, too.

Too bad Patriarchs and Genestealers don't get cult creeds, GSC armies going forward will likely be fielded without Genestealers ironically.

Also, Neophytes are pretty much gone considering you can get Brood Brother squads in your GSC detachment to fill troops and then give them orders from the Company Commander in your Spearhead detachment.

Genestealers will likely feature in armies, but they will be Kraken Genestealers in a Tyranid detachment.

I admit it's weird but... It's the same models.

The genestealers are dead. Long live the Jeans Dealer!

Why do I feel like playing people with 20 acolytes all being count-as armed with hand flamers is going to be really common from here on in?

Other than the Kelermorph and acolyte skorchy bois how good is the rest of the army? Will they need these gimmicks to be viable? I haven't had time to look through an entire video review of the codex but it seems like they're still super dependent on the alpha strike and hope that they opponent isn't able to counter.

 Stux wrote:
Genestealers will likely feature in armies, but they will be Kraken Genestealers in a Tyranid detachment.

For sure, Neurothrope, Swarmlord, Genestealers and a couple Ripper Swarms to fill out the Battalion is going to be pretty standard.

GSC Battalions will lean heavily into Aberrants/Acolytes and use Brood Brothers to fill. Then there's the obligatory AM Spearhead.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Genestealers will likely feature in armies, but they will be Kraken Genestealers in a Tyranid detachment.

For sure, Neurothrope, Swarmlord, Genestealers and a couple Ripper Swarms to fill out the Battalion is going to be pretty standard.

GSC Battalions will lean heavily into Aberrants/Acolytes and use Brood Brothers to fill. Then there's the obligatory AM Spearhead.

Mine will be a supreme command of Tank Commanders :p

Will also have a Shadowsword, but I know that won't be meta.

PiñaColada wrote:
The genestealers are dead. Long live the Jeans Dealer!

Why do I feel like playing people with 20 acolytes all being count-as armed with hand flamers is going to be really common from here on in?

Other than the Kelermorph and acolyte skorchy bois how good is the rest of the army? Will they need these gimmicks to be viable? I haven't had time to look through an entire video review of the codex but it seems like they're still super dependent on the alpha strike and hope that they opponent isn't able to counter.

S-tier:

Scorchy Bois troops unit x1 (since they must use a stratagem and you probably don't want to hold 160pts until turn 3 and your chaff will be cleared by then)
Not-guardsmen in a GSC detachment ordered by an out-of-detachment company commander - does everything guardsmen currently do and guard are good.
Kellermorph
Aberrants buffed to hell and doing the smashcaptain schtick where they blow up super expensive knights'n'things. Probably using the Annointed Throng cookies from Vigilus and the Four Armed Emperor subfaction for super duper easy charges
Nexos CP regen with no need for a relic/wl trait
New super el cheapo elite/heavy/fast choices letting you run a brigade nearly as easily as guard


A-Tier (maybe in competitive lists IDK seems a bit iffy):

Mental onslaught soup combo
Order-able bullgryns
Acolytes with heavy weapons (maybe as good as aberrants, I'm kind of unconvinced, aberrants just seem to do their job but more focused/better)
Various democharge combos (possible to combine with scorchy bois?)
Psyker sniper fellow (why not just use a keller)
Genestealers/Patriarch (trogdor the burninator squad seems to invalidate the need for any chaffclearing besides them+guardsmen)


B-Tier (Probably Not tier):

Using any kind of shooty gunline combo with the alphus
Using Any kind of vehicle spam, despite improvements to the rockgrinder. GSC stuff still seems too flimsy to be terribly useful.
Bio-engineer doctor fellow (better ways to buff aberrants that don't hurt them exist)
Bikers (Might be better than a scout sentinel, but scout sentinels stop turn 1 deep strike shenanigans from boyz/genestealers)


C-Tier (Definitely Not Tier):

Metamorph. What is this supposed to be better at than anything else? The Bloodbrides of the GSC codex.
Neophytes. See above but for vastly superior brood bro guardsmen. Pay a point more for....not...getting..orders? Shittier weapon upgrades?

GSC will make Nid Soup (Nids+GSC+Guard) as potent a combo as Imp Soup/Eldar soup in the competitive meta. I would bet it will surpass chaos soup. I don't think it will surpass imp soup or eldar soup. The matchup vs imp soup is REALLY good, the matchup vs eldar soup is not nearly as good - Aberrants, Venoms, eldar psychic defense, Forewarned etc gak on GSC based lists really well.

the_scotsman wrote:
Nexos CP regen with no need for a relic/wl trait

Clamavus also if you want to lock in that Aberrant charge, the 12" bubble is also kind of nice for preventing counter DS.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Here you go. Be ready to weep. I marked it at the proper time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wConvy5p0&feature=youtu.be&t=2470

Wow, thanks.

So, a Hybrid with a Hand Flamer goes from range 8" to 6" & from D3 to D6 shots...for 11 points cheaper???? amazing.

And I'm not weeping, since Genestealers have been corrupting me with their xenos wiles since 2nd edition. I bought 2 of the original Space Hulk Box sets and one of the re-releases ~10 years ago; though I didn't buy the newest version with the nice sculpts; 60+ Genestealers is quite enough I think.

Personally I'm praising the four-armed emperor. =)

Well, weeping tears of joy in any case.

And WTF - their chainfist is less points with no -1 to hit. Unreal.

What models are carrying the Chainfist equivalents?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Here you go. Be ready to weep. I marked it at the proper time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wConvy5p0&feature=youtu.be&t=2470

Wow, thanks.

So, a Hybrid with a Hand Flamer goes from range 8" to 6" & from D3 to D6 shots...for 11 points cheaper???? amazing.

And I'm not weeping, since Genestealers have been corrupting me with their xenos wiles since 2nd edition. I bought 2 of the original Space Hulk Box sets and one of the re-releases ~10 years ago; though I didn't buy the newest version with the nice sculpts; 60+ Genestealers is quite enough I think.

Personally I'm praising the four-armed emperor. =)

Well, weeping tears of joy in any case.

And WTF - their chainfist is less points with no -1 to hit. Unreal.

What models are carrying the Chainfist equivalents?

You know, the little guardsman equivalent defense dudes.

But shhhhhhh.

Shhhhhhh.

the_scotsman wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Here you go. Be ready to weep. I marked it at the proper time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34wConvy5p0&feature=youtu.be&t=2470

Wow, thanks.

So, a Hybrid with a Hand Flamer goes from range 8" to 6" & from D3 to D6 shots...for 11 points cheaper???? amazing.

And I'm not weeping, since Genestealers have been corrupting me with their xenos wiles since 2nd edition. I bought 2 of the original Space Hulk Box sets and one of the re-releases ~10 years ago; though I didn't buy the newest version with the nice sculpts; 60+ Genestealers is quite enough I think.

Personally I'm praising the four-armed emperor. =)

Well, weeping tears of joy in any case.

And WTF - their chainfist is less points with no -1 to hit. Unreal.

What models are carrying the Chainfist equivalents?

You know, the little guardsman equivalent defense dudes.

But shhhhhhh.

Shhhhhhh.

And yet not even Catachans ignore those penalties?

It seems like you're playing devils advocate for the sake of doing it at this point.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I don't know that he's going to be so easy to use.

Can't readily deploy within 9" of the enemy. Only has short ranged pistols. Without forethought, he may struggle to get to any 'worth it' targets - especially against an opponent that knows to keep an eye out for him.

He's soft, squishy and fragile, so is going to take finesse to be effective against characters.

Me? I think he's an excellent objective sweeper. Let him open up, do some damage. Boost up other incoming firepower, and let something else claim the objective after an assault. And that is where I think he'll be the real threat. Characters? I'll use the Assassin and the Biker Chick. Nobble them from further away.

If he, and he can, casually wipes off a Infantry squad of guardsmen he has 2/3rds of his points back and now generates an aura for his fellows.

Huh, you know, I saw this, and thanks to the power of Binomial Probability we can actually find out the chance of that.
The chance of Kelly killing a guardsman is 5/6 (BS 2+) * 2/3 (Str4vsT3) * 5/6 (-1apvs5+sv), giving us a .4629 repeating chance
Plugging into Here, with a a number of tests equal to 12, successes 10
THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I don't know that he's going to be so easy to use.

Can't readily deploy within 9" of the enemy. Only has short ranged pistols. Without forethought, he may struggle to get to any 'worth it' targets - especially against an opponent that knows to keep an eye out for him.

He's soft, squishy and fragile, so is going to take finesse to be effective against characters.

Me? I think he's an excellent objective sweeper. Let him open up, do some damage. Boost up other incoming firepower, and let something else claim the objective after an assault. And that is where I think he'll be the real threat. Characters? I'll use the Assassin and the Biker Chick. Nobble them from further away.

If he, and he can, casually wipes off a Infantry squad of guardsmen he has 2/3rds of his points back and now generates an aura for his fellows.

Huh, you know, I saw this, and thanks to the power of Binomial Probability we can actually find out the chance of that.
The chance of Kelly killing a guardsman is 5/6 (BS 2+) * 2/3 (Str4vsT3) * 5/6 (-1apvs5+sv), giving us a .4629 repeating chance
Plugging into Here, with a a number of tests equal to 12, successes 10
THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

Have you heard of morale losses?

Have you heard of morale losses?

To be fair morale is meaningless in 40k compared to AoS. It is a rare treat when morale loss is meaningful in 40k.

 Eldarsif wrote:

Have you heard of morale losses?

To be fair morale is meaningless in 40k compared to AoS. It is a rare treat when morale loss is meaningful in 40k.

9shots, 7 wounds. 6 dead guardsmen.

Morale 7 roll of 3.5 is average. Another 2-3 guardsmen.

the_scotsman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
The genestealers are dead. Long live the Jeans Dealer!

Why do I feel like playing people with 20 acolytes all being count-as armed with hand flamers is going to be really common from here on in?

Other than the Kelermorph and acolyte skorchy bois how good is the rest of the army? Will they need these gimmicks to be viable? I haven't had time to look through an entire video review of the codex but it seems like they're still super dependent on the alpha strike and hope that they opponent isn't able to counter.

S-tier:

Scorchy Bois troops unit x1 (since they must use a stratagem and you probably don't want to hold 160pts until turn 3 and your chaff will be cleared by then)
Not-guardsmen in a GSC detachment ordered by an out-of-detachment company commander - does everything guardsmen currently do and guard are good.
Kellermorph
Aberrants buffed to hell and doing the smashcaptain schtick where they blow up super expensive knights'n'things. Probably using the Annointed Throng cookies from Vigilus and the Four Armed Emperor subfaction for super duper easy charges
Nexos CP regen with no need for a relic/wl trait
New super el cheapo elite/heavy/fast choices letting you run a brigade nearly as easily as guard


A-Tier (maybe in competitive lists IDK seems a bit iffy):

Mental onslaught soup combo
Order-able bullgryns
Acolytes with heavy weapons (maybe as good as aberrants, I'm kind of unconvinced, aberrants just seem to do their job but more focused/better)
Various democharge combos (possible to combine with scorchy bois?)
Psyker sniper fellow (why not just use a keller)
Genestealers/Patriarch (trogdor the burninator squad seems to invalidate the need for any chaffclearing besides them+guardsmen)


B-Tier (Probably Not tier):

Using any kind of shooty gunline combo with the alphus
Using Any kind of vehicle spam, despite improvements to the rockgrinder. GSC stuff still seems too flimsy to be terribly useful.
Bio-engineer doctor fellow (better ways to buff aberrants that don't hurt them exist)
Bikers (Might be better than a scout sentinel, but scout sentinels stop turn 1 deep strike shenanigans from boyz/genestealers)


C-Tier (Definitely Not Tier):

Metamorph. What is this supposed to be better at than anything else? The Bloodbrides of the GSC codex.
Neophytes. See above but for vastly superior brood bro guardsmen. Pay a point more for....not...getting..orders? Shittier weapon upgrades?

GSC will make Nid Soup (Nids+GSC+Guard) as potent a combo as Imp Soup/Eldar soup in the competitive meta. I would bet it will surpass chaos soup. I don't think it will surpass imp soup or eldar soup. The matchup vs imp soup is REALLY good, the matchup vs eldar soup is not nearly as good - Aberrants, Venoms, eldar psychic defense, Forewarned etc gak on GSC based lists really well.

I thought that Brood Brothers were barred from getting orders? Could have sworn a number of reviews said that....

Oh, you mean that thing everyone pretends doesn't exist when complaining about how OP IG infantry squads are? Yeah, I've heard of them. At the average, Kelly kills 5 guards man, which vs the sergeant's ld7 means you need to roll 7 on that d6 for morale. I think Nids have a -ld ability somewhere? So at the minimum you need 6 kills with a %40 chance (using an average of the normal shots and gunslinger shots for .42) and then need to roll 5 or 6 on the die another %33, with a grant toal off %13 chance. More likely, but still not as "casually" as you put it.

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoiler:

S-tier:

Scorchy Bois troops unit x1 (since they must use a stratagem and you probably don't want to hold 160pts until turn 3 and your chaff will be cleared by then)
Not-guardsmen in a GSC detachment ordered by an out-of-detachment company commander - does everything guardsmen currently do and guard are good.
Kellermorph
Aberrants buffed to hell and doing the smashcaptain schtick where they blow up super expensive knights'n'things. Probably using the Annointed Throng cookies from Vigilus and the Four Armed Emperor subfaction for super duper easy charges
Nexos CP regen with no need for a relic/wl trait
New super el cheapo elite/heavy/fast choices letting you run a brigade nearly as easily as guard


A-Tier (maybe in competitive lists IDK seems a bit iffy):

Mental onslaught soup combo
Order-able bullgryns
Acolytes with heavy weapons (maybe as good as aberrants, I'm kind of unconvinced, aberrants just seem to do their job but more focused/better)
Various democharge combos (possible to combine with scorchy bois?)
Psyker sniper fellow (why not just use a keller)
Genestealers/Patriarch (trogdor the burninator squad seems to invalidate the need for any chaffclearing besides them+guardsmen)


B-Tier (Probably Not tier):

Using any kind of shooty gunline combo with the alphus
Using Any kind of vehicle spam, despite improvements to the rockgrinder. GSC stuff still seems too flimsy to be terribly useful.
Bio-engineer doctor fellow (better ways to buff aberrants that don't hurt them exist)
Bikers (Might be better than a scout sentinel, but scout sentinels stop turn 1 deep strike shenanigans from boyz/genestealers)


C-Tier (Definitely Not Tier):

Metamorph. What is this supposed to be better at than anything else? The Bloodbrides of the GSC codex.
Neophytes. See above but for vastly superior brood bro guardsmen. Pay a point more for....not...getting..orders? Shittier weapon upgrades?

GSC will make Nid Soup (Nids+GSC+Guard) as potent a combo as Imp Soup/Eldar soup in the competitive meta. I would bet it will surpass chaos soup. I don't think it will surpass imp soup or eldar soup. The matchup vs imp soup is REALLY good, the matchup vs eldar soup is not nearly as good - Aberrants, Venoms, eldar psychic defense, Forewarned etc gak on GSC based lists really well.

How do you feel about Hive Guard vanguards for countering the Eldar soup? The min detachment (Neurothrope, 3x3 Impaler HG) is just over 520 points. I haven't had the change to play against the eldar soup, but 36" range + ignores line of sight + can hide behind walls + onslaught feels like it should do some damage to them, and still has a lot of utility against a wide range of matchups. Bumping it to a battalion is another ~180 points, so...options.

GSC pairs incredibly well with Hive Guard. Before the codex i've faced it and it was very difficult for me. But Hive Guard are a great unit, one of the best in the codex.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

He just needs to kill 8 to guarantee a failed morale test to wipe the squad, otherwise the guard player will have to spend 2CP to save it.

Ignoring how lame of a mechanic and how unimportant morale is, did you do the math for other units? Cultists for example are far less durable and more expensive at the same time.

 Smirrors wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

He just needs to kill 8 to guarantee a failed morale test to wipe the squad, otherwise the guard player will have to spend 2CP to save it.

Still an 8% chance. Besides the point, we're still talking about wiping a unit out that costs less than the Kelly, there's not really a point spending the CP to save it even if he does kill most of the unit. Good luck does not equate to overpowered.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Ignoring how lame of a mechanic and how unimportant morale is, did you do the math for other units? Cultists for example are far less durable and more expensive at the same time

I didn't feel the need to, since the subject was on Infantry as the specific example. Anything tougher than that? He's not going to suddenly be better at killing. Cultist and Grots? Can be taken in larger than 10, so can't be wiped short of spending a bunch of CP on one model. And all the math I did was without considering cover. So at the end of the day, I'm not sure what comparing other units would do, other than feed into the usual point efficiency nonsense.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Smirrors wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

He just needs to kill 8 to guarantee a failed morale test to wipe the squad, otherwise the guard player will have to spend 2CP to save it.

Still an 8% chance. Besides the point, we're still talking about wiping a unit out that costs less than the Kelly, there's not really a point spending the CP to save it even if he does kill most of the unit. Good luck does not equate to overpowered.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Ignoring how lame of a mechanic and how unimportant morale is, did you do the math for other units? Cultists for example are far less durable and more expensive at the same time

I didn't feel the need to, since the subject was on Infantry as the specific example. Anything tougher than that? He's not going to suddenly be better at killing. Cultist and Grots? Can be taken in larger than 10, so can't be wiped short of spending a bunch of CP on one model. And all the math I did was without considering cover. So at the end of the day, I'm not sure what comparing other units would do, other than feed into the usual point efficiency nonsense.

You can't just ignore doing the math for those units because they MIGHT be in squads larger than 10. Same thing for things like Skitarii units or Ork Boyz (where you'd be more looking for straight casualties anyway, which someone showed they get a nice amount dead). Then you have Intercessors and Deathwatch Vets and Dire Avengers and even Custodes (where he wounds the regular dudes AND the bikes at the same rate).

There's a lot to unpack from his stats and abilities.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Smirrors wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

THe chance of getting 10 or more unsaved wounds is....
.001
A literal %1 chance to wipe a guardsman unit. And that's when we ignoring how gunslinger actually works (since the chance of generating the extra shot adds an additional 5/6 to the equation), the assuming the guardsmen are out of cover. I guess you are right through, he can wipe out an Infantry squad.

He just needs to kill 8 to guarantee a failed morale test to wipe the squad, otherwise the guard player will have to spend 2CP to save it.

Still an 8% chance. Besides the point, we're still talking about wiping a unit out that costs less than the Kelly, there's not really a point spending the CP to save it even if he does kill most of the unit. Good luck does not equate to overpowered.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Ignoring how lame of a mechanic and how unimportant morale is, did you do the math for other units? Cultists for example are far less durable and more expensive at the same time

I didn't feel the need to, since the subject was on Infantry as the specific example. Anything tougher than that? He's not going to suddenly be better at killing. Cultist and Grots? Can be taken in larger than 10, so can't be wiped short of spending a bunch of CP on one model. And all the math I did was without considering cover. So at the end of the day, I'm not sure what comparing other units would do, other than feed into the usual point efficiency nonsense.

You can't just ignore doing the math for those units because they MIGHT be in squads larger than 10. Same thing for things like Skitarii units or Ork Boyz (where you'd be more looking for straight casualties anyway, which someone showed they get a nice amount dead). Then you have Intercessors and Deathwatch Vets and Dire Avengers and even Custodes (where he wounds the regular dudes AND the bikes at the same rate).

There's a lot to unpack from his stats and abilities.

You mean, with 6 shots, around 9-10 hits, slightly over 3 wounds and ONE failed save that doesn't even kill a guy?
Those Custodes?
The ones where he has a decent chance of doing nothing if they happen to be in cover?

What I find completely unacceptable about the Kelermorph is the scarcity of McCree memes about him. Someone needs to get on this, stat.

To everyone panicking about the flamer acolytes, the strat to get them 3” away prevents them charging. So yes, it is really powerful, but once you pop off (twice for another 3cp, for 5 total), you’ve effectively got 20 overpriced guardsmen sitting out of cover waiting for a stiff breeze to blow them over. Add in the opportunity cost of not being able to use either the 3” deep strike or the shoot twice strat on the Keller at the same time.

Also, the gsc handflamers are the same stat line as every other faction got in CA18 (they should be 2-3 points though)