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The rules give us two indications that disembarked units are not reinforcements. First, its that they can act normally after disembarking (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.), second is that they cant be intercepted by stratagems which target reinforcements. Just because the description of reinforcements (partially) fits disembarking units doesnt mean that they are reinforcements. GW needs to answer this in a FAQ, because the rules arent clear.

Bharring wrote:
"It doesn’t matter where the models were located before, where they are now is key here."
If that were true, then you could WarpTime a deepstruck unit - as "where they are now" is on the table.

Clearly, the rules say you can't - so the rules must be based on more than "where they are now".

Specifically, the rules say whether or not they were Reinforcements is key, not where they are now.

Except that Warptime situation has a specific rule forbidding that. I was referring to one specific situation involving Transports and saying that in general, in absence of anything telling us to use special rules, just follow the core rules... I don’t see a flaw in that as thats how rules function.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Once a transport is on the battlefield the units inside must be treated as being just like those in any other transport on the battlefield, or you’d need special rules if they’re to be treated differently. As we aren’t given any rules to say ‘treat those disembarking from a Drop Pod differently from other disembarkations’ other than the ones allowing them to do so immediately, there are none. In absence of special rules follow the core rules. It doesn’t matter where the models were located before, where they are now is key here.

Thats a good point, i like that interpretation.
1. Place Drop Pod from Reinforcements on the Battlefield.
2. Place the Units from Drop Pod, which is now on the Battlefield also on the Battlefield.
So the Unit came out of a transport from the battlefield and not direct from the "reinforcement zone".

 p5freak wrote:
The rules give us two indications that disembarked units are not reinforcements. First, its that they can act normally after disembarking (move, shoot, charge, fight, etc.), second is that they cant be intercepted by stratagems which target reinforcements. Just because the description of reinforcements (partially) fits disembarking units doesnt mean that they are reinforcements. GW needs to answer this in a FAQ, because the rules arent clear.

So then you should be able to point out where the FAQ says that they're not reinforcements when they explained why they made the ruling that they did. The fact is, GW did not explain why they made their ruling hence there's no support for either position, reinforcements or not.

As for this:
Thats a good point, i like that interpretation.
1. Place Drop Pod from Reinforcements on the Battlefield.
2. Place the Units from Drop Pod, which is now on the Battlefield also on the Battlefield.
So the Unit came out of a transport from the battlefield and not direct from the "reinforcement zone".

The units are disembarking from the Drop Pod as part of the Drop Pod's Reinforcemnt rule. It does, in turn, use the Disembark rules, however you are executing the disembarkation as part of the "set up on the battlefield mid-turn, [...] or other, more esoteric means". Whlie less-esoteric means (disembarkation) is also used, it is being used as part of a more-esoteric means (Drop Pod).

As such, the units coming out of the Drop Pod meet both criteria (Set up mid-turn, and using more esoteric means to do so).

Using the disembarkation rules to execute the drop pod esoteric rules doesn't mean you're not using the drop pod esoteric rules.

As such, the units *are* reinforcements.

One quite logical implication of the FAQ that they cannot be intercepted is that it's because they're not Reinforcements; however, two other equally reasonable alternate implications suggest otherwise. So the FAQ does not help us answer this question.

Finally, the rule that models inside Transports on the table count towards what's "deployed" suggests that models inside Transports in Reinforcements are very different from those inside transports on the table.

I hope GW FAQs this. Preferably against further movement, but clarity would be good either way.

But, doesn't Auspex Scan and the like specify being deployed on the battlefield? The passengers, if they are reinforcements, wouldn't count as that until they disembark.

 doctortom wrote:
But, doesn't Auspex Scan and the like specify being deployed on the battlefield? The passengers, if they are reinforcements, wouldn't count as that until they disembark.

Hence the argument that not being able to use Auspex Scan is not due to the passengers NOT being reinforcements, but due to timing issues.

nekooni wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
But, doesn't Auspex Scan and the like specify being deployed on the battlefield? The passengers, if they are reinforcements, wouldn't count as that until they disembark.

Hence the argument that not being able to use Auspex Scan is not due to the passengers NOT being reinforcements, but due to timing issues.

If they're not deployed on the battlefield until they disembark (and we know that they don't count as on the battlefield while embarked), then it wouldn't be a timing issue.

 doctortom wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
But, doesn't Auspex Scan and the like specify being deployed on the battlefield? The passengers, if they are reinforcements, wouldn't count as that until they disembark.

Hence the argument that not being able to use Auspex Scan is not due to the passengers NOT being reinforcements, but due to timing issues.

If they're not deployed on the battlefield until they disembark (and we know that they don't count as on the battlefield while embarked), then it wouldn't be a timing issue.

*sigh*

Reinforcements arrive at the end of a phase. Movement occurs during the phase (prior to the end.)

This means the question about whether they are reinforcements is meaningless. Nothing can happen after the end of the phase, hence no movement is possible.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

nekooni wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
But, doesn't Auspex Scan and the like specify being deployed on the battlefield? The passengers, if they are reinforcements, wouldn't count as that until they disembark.

Hence the argument that not being able to use Auspex Scan is not due to the passengers NOT being reinforcements, but due to timing issues.

If they're not deployed on the battlefield until they disembark (and we know that they don't count as on the battlefield while embarked), then it wouldn't be a timing issue.

*sigh*

Reinforcements arrive at the end of a phase. Movement occurs during the phase (prior to the end.)

This means the question about whether they are reinforcements is meaningless. Nothing can happen after the end of the phase, hence no movement is possible.

The OP was asking about moving during the psychic phase via a psyker power. That means it's not meaningless at all as to whether they count as refinforcements; reinforcements may not "move or advance further during the Turn they arrive", if they don't count as reinforcements they could use a psychic power to move during that phase.

You cannot apply a Special Snowflake FAQ to any other cases but the one it addresses, no?

The Special Snowflake FAQ tells you that units that come into play mid turn via transport entering the game mid turn as reinforcements cannot be targeted by units through auspex scan.

It's a Special Snowflake FAQ to give extra protection for the units that were inside the transport. That doesn't mean the units are or are not reinforcements as there are not enough clauses to make that determination.

You cannot apply that FAQ to mean 'units disembarking from a transport that is entering as reinforcement does not count as reinforcement.'

 skchsan wrote:
You cannot apply a Special Snowflake FAQ to any other cases but the one it addresses, no?

The Special Snowflake FAQ tells you that units that come into play mid turn via transport entering the game mid turn as reinforcements cannot be targeted by units through auspex scan.

But never says that the passengers are reinforcements.

 p5freak wrote:
The rules give us two indications that disembarked units are not reinforcements.

False - the FAQ makes no mention of such. It simply states that the disembarking units cannot be targeted - to be precise, it gives no mention of how those shooting happens - whether its the subsequent shooting phase or via interrupting stratagem.

So if we were to follow the FAQ to a T, then the units that disembark out of transport entering as reinforcement cannot be targeted AT ALL, EVER.

EDIT - if it were as above, it would be pretty humorous. On a second read however, I see that only when it disembarks it is immune to targetting.

 skchsan wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules give us two indications that disembarked units are not reinforcements.

False - the FAQ makes no mention of such. It simply states that the disembarking units cannot be targeted - to be precise, it gives no mention of how those shooting happens - whether its the subsequent shooting phase or via interrupting stratagem.

But, if you insist that the passengers are reinforcements, they are reinforcements that don't arrive on the battlefield until they disembark.

 doctortom wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
The rules give us two indications that disembarked units are not reinforcements.

False - the FAQ makes no mention of such. It simply states that the disembarking units cannot be targeted - to be precise, it gives no mention of how those shooting happens - whether its the subsequent shooting phase or via interrupting stratagem.

But, if you insist that the passengers are reinforcements, they are reinforcements that don't arrive on the battlefield until they disembark.

What I'm insisting is that the FAQ has no bearing on turning the binary condition that is either 'reinforcement' or 'not reinforcement' on the unit embarked inside another unit that is entering as reinforcements.

The FAQ only discusses the particular interaction that happens at the MOMENT the transport enters. It does not discuss how to treat the unit inside - whether to count as reinforcements or not.

Discussing the validity/legality of casting movement inducing psychic powers on units that disembark from a unit that has arrived as reinforcement via FAQ presented is a moot point. This is like saying "this green apple is red because that strawberry is red."

"But, if you insist that the passengers are reinforcements, they are reinforcements that don't arrive on the battlefield until they disembark."
They are units that arrived as reinforcements that turn until the end of the turn.

You're not done executing the Drop Pod rule until you've executed the Disembark rule; so, while you are applying the Disembark rule, you're also applying the Drop Pod rule at the same time.

Reinforcements are units that arrive midgame that are set up due to a "more esoteric" rule. Drop Pod contents are set up per Disembarkation per Drop Pod rules.

Therefore, the contents are set up by both a "less esoteric" rule (Disembark) *and* a "more esoteric" rule (Drop Pod rule). Why would a "more esoteric" rule using a "less esoteric" rule in execution mean that they aren't set up by the "more esoteric" rule?

 doctortom wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
*sigh*

Reinforcements arrive at the end of a phase. Movement occurs during the phase (prior to the end.)

This means the question about whether they are reinforcements is meaningless. Nothing can happen after the end of the phase, hence no movement is possible.

The OP was asking about moving during the psychic phase via a psyker power. That means it's not meaningless at all as to whether they count as refinforcements; reinforcements may not "move or advance further during the Turn they arrive", if they don't count as reinforcements they could use a psychic power to move during that phase.

Right.

And, for some reason, people are arguing the unit that makes it to the battlefield after[i] reinforcements arrive should be eligible for Warptime.

If no more movement is possible after reinforcements arrive, can't see how their passengers suddenly become eligible for extra movement. It doesn't matter what you call them, the argument makes no sense.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
*sigh*

Reinforcements arrive at the end of a phase. Movement occurs during the phase (prior to the end.)

This means the question about whether they are reinforcements is meaningless. Nothing can happen after the end of the phase, hence no movement is possible.

The OP was asking about moving during the psychic phase via a psyker power. That means it's not meaningless at all as to whether they count as refinforcements; reinforcements may not "move or advance further during the Turn they arrive", if they don't count as reinforcements they could use a psychic power to move during that phase.

Right.

And, for some reason, people are arguing the unit that makes it to the battlefield after[i] reinforcements arrive should be eligible for Warptime.

If no more movement is possible after reinforcements arrive, can't see how their passengers suddenly become eligible for extra movement. It doesn't matter what you call them, the argument makes no sense.

Warptime is movement after reinforcements arrived. It's just limited to units that didn't arrive as reinforcements this turn, but last time I checked the psychic phase came after the movement phase.